McDonald's team selection is flawed
Apologies if this has been posted before but may be a good read to some who havent seen it before.
Tony Wroten Jr. was one of this year's notable McDonald's All-American team snubs.
Let me start with a question: Are McDonald's All-Americans chosen purely based on their own ability and performance, or are they picked based on whether or not they sign with an A-list school?
I bring this up because the McDonald's selection committee has done it again, churning out several curious selections and even more curious omissions this year. To be blunt, it is a joke. Need further proof? Look at the North Carolina Tar Heels. How is it possible that Roy Williams could coach a team loaded with seven Mickey D's All-Americans last season and still not make the NCAA tournament? He'd have to be the worst coach of all time to underproduce with a squad that was truly that talented, but Williams' two national titles and career winning percentage of .800 suggest that the man knows how to coach.
It is in this way that the McDonald's selection is flawed. Too often the emphasis on the ranking and voting in of players is based strongly on where they signed, how well-known they are and how high a profile their AAU team had. The game, the most prestigious in the land, is supposed to represent the top 25 players in the country, or at least come as close as possible.
The committee has hit on some top prospects in the past, including the likes of Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose, but there is also a substantial group of players who were clearly vastly overrated based on where they signed. Omm'A Givens, Casey Sanders, Winfred Walton, Neil Fingleton and Taymon Domzalski are just a few names you might have gotten excited about, only to be let down when they were decent but ultimately overrated players based on their McDonald's All-American status.
I get it -- these things are subjective. But man, going two years in a row without having a California selection, for example, is hard to believe. Two years ago, Kawhi Leonard was the California high school player of the year and his team won the state championship; he didn't get an invite to the game. All he has done since is average a double-double for the San Diego State Aztecs (a school without a rich basketball pedigree).
Last year, the California snub was Allen Crabbe of Price High School. Crabbe is averaging 12 points per game (20 in conference play) as a freshman in the Pac-10. He should win the league's freshman of the year award. Did he not get picked because he committed early to play for the California Golden Bears and was not an AAU scene fixture who signed with UNC, the Duke Blue Devils or Kentucky Wildcats? It makes you wonder.
This year there are several omissions and other suspect selections.
Tony Wroten Jr., a Washington Huskies commitment and one of the notable snubs, handled it well in this interview (and he is right about Air Jordans versus Reeboks).
Wroten injured his knee his junior year and it may have hurt him on the AAU circuit, but one top-25 head coach said, "Wow, Wroten did not make it and Wiltjer did? Who picks this thing?"
Kyle Wiltjer is a very nice player and might get to start as a freshman at Kentucky next year, but the 6-foot-10, face-up big's selection could have something to do with the growing belief that if John Calipari selects a player, he must be special.
One assistant coach complained to me about another curious selection. "Shannon Scott was not recruited to start, we billed him as a second-level recruit, and I am stunned. No way. Nick Johnson is a stud, and Josiah Turner is a game-changing recruit for Arizona."
A Big East coach chimed in as well: "Quinn Cook ahead of Josiah Turner is a farce. Marshall Plumlee, too. This Duke bias thing has got to stop. My goodness, Cook is a good player, Marshall too, but there is not a soul alive who thinks they are players who will have a profound impact on a program. Jabari Brown will at Oregon, Josiah Turner will at Arizona and Dorian Finney-Smith will at Virginia Tech. If Finney-Smith signed at Duke, he'd be in the game, and that is flat-out wrong."
There's no way of knowing exactly what is behind these decisions. It could just be that some voters do not see players from all over the country, and therefore end up missing on some players. Or, it could be exactly what we all think it is: that our infatuation with Duke, UNC, Kentucky and other blue-blood programs has no bounds.
thanks for the post... wow! i was completely oblivious tht wroten didnt get selected... everyone knows this game is just as much political as it is talent wise to get selected in.
Hell Dorian Finney-Smith got jerked......can we make a case because of Virginia Tech being his destination?
Nick Johnson......This was the biggest one to come across as a snub other then Wroten.
LaQuinton Ross nothing zip zotta nada!
it is political, you are right, but like most good things corrupted, it did not start out that way. I remember when 80-90% of MickeyD's made it to the league...now....ummm
VT gets reamed every year, one way or the other. cant even get in the NCAA tourney with a winning conference record in the ACC or a victory over the #1 team in the country, Delaney averages over 18ppg THREE years straight in a conference that produced the last 2 national champs before UCONN and still doesnt get drafted? Now the snubbing of Finney-Smith...a player held in extremely high regard coming out of HS. I am beginning to think someone has it out for Greenberg or VT basketball as a whole.
This was an interesting read, and I do think that some of the points made were strong. I tend to agree that were guys land has a huge effect on the selection, but I also think that some guys pedigrees and the fact that some of these guys have been on the circuit as known commodities also weights heavily. Some guys develop fast and are known on the circuit since they were in middle school, and they often get in the game after being recognizable names due to their longstanding hype. It doesn't guarantee great college success, but there are clear politics in these games. There are politics spread out all over amateur basketball
Well, you can also look at old Parade All-America teams and a lot of those guys didn't turn into big successes or NBA players either.
I think there is politics involved in picking the teams along with the draft.
One thing is that sometimes high school talent doesn't translate to college and college talent doesn't always translate to the NBA.
I totally agree about the Nick Johnson snub, he would have at least the dunk contest more bearable.
I thought McDonald's stood for excellence when we speak on Basketball if so....Dorian Finney-Smith = 2 back to back State titles & knocks off highly ranked #2 in the Nation Findlay Prep. I.C. Norcom just hit the scene! It's not like they were prestigous & always great. They even had Vernon Macklin & Ben Finney which did not even create any buzz while there.
Being a Mcdonalds All-American doesnt carry the prestige that it use to. Many players are being chosen based on selection of school and some are just merely overrated. Dee Brown was a Mcdonalds All-American when only two major schools were recruting him, one was Illinois.
If you select a national power early, your chances of being a Mcdonalds All-American greatly increases. When the best of the best should be chosen, no matter where they sign.
I believe you guys are over looking GPA plays a part in their selection to. They tend to pick kids who excell in school as well as on the court. Someone of the people who got snubbed might not have a good enough GPA to broadcast to everyone that is role model quality.
Most kids that become Mcdonald All Americans carry a 3.0GPA and higher and take Honors classes.
Couldn't agree more... Wroten should have made the team over Wiltjer.
Why was Wiltjer getting jacked here? He had an awesome senior year, won his third state title in HS and also won the fricking 3-PT shootout at McDonald's! Not too mention, he won MVP at the Elite 24. The dude can ball! Guys, I agree Tony Wroten should have made it, as should have Jabari Brown. But, when did 80-90% of McDonald's All-Americans make the league? You have the stats too back that up? Because, I looked back, and I do not think I ever saw multiple classes like that. After all, this is an All-Star game in which a bias exists, whether it is based on the school you sign with, where you play or who you play with.
The guys I felt should have probably made the McDonald's game this year were as follows: Jabari Brown, Dorian Finney-Smith, Tony Wroten and possibly Nick Johnson. However, it was difficult too get them spots. I see little to no reason why Wiltjer should not have made it though. Say what you want, the kid had a huge summer, and followed it up with a big senior year. Plus, he played AAU ball with Brown, Turner and Johnson, and Wiltjer was the guy that was standing out.
If you want too blame the selection committee this past year for one thing, blame them for their inability too divert from the position structure. This was an incredibly strong class as far as wing players, and incredibly weak in the middle. Two guys I think you could single out as questionable choices are Marshall Plumlee and Amir Williams. If Marshall's brother Mason had not played in the game, I am guessing chances fade significantly. Not too mention, his being signed too Duke, as usual, helped matters. Amir is a good player, and had a strong senior year, but there were clearly better players out there.
Now, as far as Shannon Scott goes, the guy played on a fantastic team last year. His Milton team went 29-3 and beat Oak Hill. In the Oak Hill game, Scott did in fact get the better of Quinn Cook (though I believe Cook was hurt, if I remember correctly, but was playing nonetheless). Add to the fact that he had signed with Ohio State, who is no slouch themselves as far as prestige of late, and he makes it.
There has been an East Coast bias forever in this game, and I doubt it changes. The Jordan game has been far better with selection in the past few years, but McDonald's has been around longer and has that history too it. I think you probably could have left Plumlee, Amir Williams and Scott off of the team, but I understand why they all made it as well. They were by far the players who you could pick out as being much lower in the rankings than anyone else. But, with Wiltjer, that dude could have signed at a UW or Gonzaga and still made the game. I think school played little role with him.
Josiah Turner by the way would have easily made the game had he not had issues with his HS team. I believe he either had too transfer or had some disciplinary thing arise. Nonetheless, his transferring mid year of his senior season cost him a spot. But, whoever said the thing about Wroten and Wiltjer, he is singling out the wrong guy. Wiltjer killed it during McDonald's week, people were super impressed with the way he played and his work ethic, not too mention his winning the 3-pt shootout (At 6'10) and scoring 11 points in the game. There were other characters too blame here. Ultimately though, McDonald's does not always get it right, but it is political, biased too the East Coast and seems too sleep on California. More than likely will always be that way, and I think it is nothing too fret about. LaQuinton Ross, though? That guy had every chance in the world too make it. He was in the Elite 24 game before he ever played HS. He just got passed by better players over time. As usual, SLAM is a great publication, but sometimes it starts the hype machine prematurely, memphistyga.
I was embellishing a lil when I said 80-90%, just trying to get a point across, but definitely more than 50% on the average. These are not accurate, some percentages could be higher but these are the minimum percentages that made it to the league. Notice the decline from 89' on. Some classes after the millenium were good, but in spots.
1979- over 70%
1982- over 50%
1983- over 50%
1984- over 65%
1985- over 70%
1986- over 70%
1987- over 80%
1988- this was very close to or above 90%, we can verify it later...but damn near every member of this team made it to the league and most had long careers.
1989- over 50%
1990- LESS than 50% (this is when I believe the selections started to become more watered down)
1991- around 50%
1992- less than 50%
1993- less than 50%
1994- around 50%
1995- over 50%
1996- less than 50%
1997- around 50%
1998- around 50%
1999- around 50%
2000- around 50% or less
2001- less than 50% (this class sucked, David Lee has had the best career, followed by Josh Childress)
2002- less than 50%
2003- around 50%
2004- over 80%
2005- over 50%
2006- over 80%
2007- over 50%
2008- less than 50%
Wednesday is the 2010 McDonald's All-American Game in Columbus, Ohio, at Value City Arena. The men's game begins at 8 p.m. and will air on ESPN, preceding a Warriors-Jazz NBA game.
There are currently 141 players in the NBA that were McDonald's All-Americans. Out of the entire NBA (424 players), 33.3 percent of the league consists of McDonald's All-Americans.
Every NBA team has at least two McDonald's All-Americans. The Cavaliers lead the league with 10. The Bobcats are next with 8. Three teams are tied for the fewest with 2 (Bulls, Nets, Hornets).
AP Photo/Henny Ray AbramsO.J. Mayo played in the McDonald's All-American Game in 2007. Just 1½ years later, he was in the NBA.
The men's McDonald's All-American Game began in 1977.
Current men's McDonald's All-Americans in the NBA the past five years
2008 (5): DeMar DeRozan, Raptors; Tyreke Evans, Kings; Jrue Holiday, 76ers; Brandon Jennings, Bucks; Byron Mullens, Thunder.
2007 (12): Jerryd Bayless, Blazers; Michael Beasley, Heat; Jonny Flynn, Wolves; Eric Gordon, Clippers; Donte Greene, Kings; Blake Griffin, Clippers; James Harden, Thunder; J.J. Hickson, Cavaliers; Kosta Koufos, Jazz; Kevin Love, Wolves; O.J. Mayo, Grizzlies; Derrick Rose, Bulls.
2006 (16): Darrell Arthur, Grizzlies; D.J. Augustin, Bobcats; Chase Budinger, Rockets; Mike Conley, Grizzlies; Daequan Cook, Heat; Javaris Crittenton, Wizards; Kevin Durant, Thunder; Wayne Ellington, Wolves; Spencer Hawes, Kings; Gerald Henderson, Bobcats; Ty Lawson, Nuggets; Brook Lopez, Nets; Robin Lopez, Suns; Greg Oden, Blazers; Brandan Wright, Warriors; Thaddeus Young, 76ers.
2005 (12): Jon Brockman, Kings; Andrew Bynum, Lakers; Mario Chalmers, Heat; Monta Ellis, Warriors; Danny Green, Cavaliers; Tyler Hansbrough, Pacers; Amir Johnson, Raptors; Josh McRoberts, Pacers; C.J. Miles, Jazz; Martell Webster, Blazers; Lou Williams, 76ers; Julian Wright, Hornets.
2004 (17): Arron Afflalo, Nuggets; LaMarcus Aldridge, Blazers; Corey Brewer, Wolves; Glen Davis, Celtics; Jordan Farmar, Lakers; Rudy Gay, Grizzlies; Daniel Gibson, Cavaliers; Malik Hairston, Spurs; Dwight Howard, Magic; Al Jefferson, Wolves; Shaun Livingston, Wizards; Rajon Rondo, Celtics; J.R. Smith, Nuggets; Josh Smith, Hawks; Sebastian Telfair, Cavaliers; D.J. White, Thunder; Marvin Williams, Hawks.
My thing is i understand how some can feel someone got snubbed but who would you have the player replace? There are only so many spots and i don't see any players on the team who didnt deserve it( do not say Wiltjer because he busted players azz everywhere he went. He may not jump out of the gym liek some other guys but he has the most advanced post game and the best shooting big in his class
Mcdonalds all americans arent just picked because ther good at basketball they also factor in how the player does in school and they dont select fifth year seniors. The best basketball talent is normally in the jordan game.
"As usual, SLAM is a great publication, but sometimes it starts the hype machine prematurely, memphistyga"
Never fails dude. You ALWAYS find a way to throw a jab.
Lol. thats true about the premature hype machine though. (Archives)
Breakdown of the History of Virginia prospects on Mickey D's Game Rosters
- 1978 Guy Morgan - Virginia Beach, VA - Wake Forest
- 1979 Ralph Sampson - Harrisonburg, VA - UVA
- 1980 Peter Holbert - Fairfax, VA - Maryland
- 1981 Jeff Adkins - Martinsville, VA - Maryland
- 1982 Dell Curry - Fort Defiance, VA - Virginia Tech
- 1983 Tommy Amaker - Fairfax, VA - Duke
- 1985 Walker Lambiotte - Woodstock, VA - Northwestern
- Kevin Madden - Stauton, VA - UNC
- Michael Porter - Dublin, VA - St. John's
- 1986 J.R. Reid - Virginia Beach, VA - UNC
- 1987 Dennis Scott - Falls Church, VA - Georgia Tech
- 1988 Milton Bell - Richmond, VA - Richmond
- Alonzo Mourning - Chesapeake, VA - Georgetown
- Crawford Palmer - Arlington, VA - Dartmouth
- 1989 Arron Bain - Falls Church, VA - Villanova
- George Lynch - Falls Church, VA - UNC
- 1990 Grant Hill - Reston, VA - Duke
- Kendrick Warren - Richmond, VA - Virginia Commonwealth
- 1991 Keith LeGree - Statesboro, VA - Cincinnati
- 1993 Joey Beard - Reston, VA - Boston University
- 1998 Ronald Curry - Hampton, VA - UNC
- Jason Capel - Chesapeake, VA - UNC
- 2002 J.J. Redick - Roanoke, VA - Duke
- 2006 Vernon Macklin - Portsmouth, VA - Georgetown
- Scottie Reynolds - Herndon, VA - Villanova
- 2008 Ed Davis - Richmond, VA - UNC
- 2010 Kendall Marshall - Dumfries, VA - UNC
- 2011 James McAdoo - Norfolk, VA - UNC
First thing first! I did not list any Mickey D's prospect from Mouth of Wilson, VA which is where Oak Hill Academy is located. 98% of Oak Hill's players are NOT from VA.
I did not start following the Mickey D's game until 1998 which is when it was located in Norfolk, VA that year. So I will start from '98-'11.
Ronald Curry was an All American solely off going to UNC & with the game being in VA it only helped his cause. EVERYONE in VA already knew what lied ahead for his future. Not knocking his basketball skillset at all.
Jason Capel again was a All American solely off going to UNC & with the game being in VA it only helped his cause. Politics was in his favor......Brother was a former Dukie & at the time his father was the Head Coach at ODU. Forgot to mention he went to the same school as Zo. His mother was my gym teacher in MS, so it's nothing personal against him, but it is what it is.
J.J. Redick from the middle of nowhere, but gets recognized, because he can flat out shoot it & Coach K made him a Dukie
John Gilchrist one of the biggest snubs around the time in '02, he was arguably a Top3-5 PG in his class. With his style of play he would have been a no-brainer if he was from the Big Apple. I think school choice probably had something to do with it. After all he did win a State title his Sr. year & was Virginia's Gatorade Player Of The Year.
Vernon Macklin originally from I.C. Norcom in Portsmouth, VA which is a new powerhouse that is on the rise. If he did not transfer to Hargrave he would most definitely not made the roster especially with going to the school he was at. Being a Georgetown recruit helped play a major part in his selection, Georgetown "ALWAYS" gets the Bigs.
Scottie Reynolds no bias here! He really did play himself to his roster spot, according to how he held his own in AAU ball, camps etc. I watched him as a HS soph. in a Tourney & he had approx 28-30 pts for the half.
Ed Davis dad was in the NBA so bloodlines can only help especially if you are going to UNC!
Kendall Marshall nothing much to say but UNC recruit
James McAdoo see Ed Davis above, but switch to uncle.
Dorian Finney-Smith snub is not even the word.....2 back to back State titles & knocks off highly ranked #2 in the Nation Findlay Prep. I.C. Norcom just hit the scene! It's not like they were prestigous & always great. They even had Vernon Macklin & older brother Ben Finney who did not even create any buzz while there. If he chose Florida over Virginia Tech which was on his list, he would have made it.
I have faced reality when it comes to Virginia prospects heading to the Mickey D's Game. If you are not attending a powerhouse such as Oak Hill/Hargrave, prep school or sign with a MAJOR D1 program you will not be a Mickey D's participant & that's FACT! Standout HS prospects don't make it from public schools from here.
The reason I do it is because you are AWESOME at listing peoples names (particularly those were early HS phenoms, that maybe SLAM would have mentioned in their publication due too their success as a youngster). However, you are not awesome at saying who those people should have made things over, and why those people did indeed not get the "props" you so rightfully think they deserve.
If you said "LaQuinton Ross should have made the team over Wayne Blackshear", you would be wrong, but at least it would be better than saying, "Nothing about LaQuinton Ross?" That dude had EVERY opportunity too proved he belonged, and I still think he is a solid prospect, but he is skinny and he does not play with FIRE. Not to mention, HE SIGNED WITH A BIG TIME SCHOOL. Want to know why Shannon Scott and Amir Williams made it over him? They had better years and were more highly ranked. Not because "LaQuinton gets no respect", Rodney Dangerfield.
I do agree about Dorian Finney-Smith, and feel he probably should have been on the team over people I named in what I wrote earlier. But, I have a hard time accepting people just dropping names without reason that the person should have indeed made the team, over anything other than you knowing there name and them being good as a freshman/sophomore.
BTW: At least you went out on a limb with what you wrote above me. Though, you should probably have done more research on those guys. Ronald Curry won McD's Game MVP, and was a top rated PG. Plus, you realize why a lot of McD's guys are from powerhouse schools, right? Because, those schools happen to sign the best players, usually. Guys from the state of Oregon only make it when they sign with powerhouse schools as well, because those are usually the schools where top ranked players want to go. There are some players who could sign anywhere and McDonald's would take them.
But, for guys on the fringe, they are more likely too take a guy who has signed with a prestigious program. Is it fair? Probably not, but I am sure this is a tough process too go through with a lot of politics involved. But, everyone you named as a player who made it from Virginia, seemed like they deserved too make it. Still, too say Ed Davis and James McAdoo made it because of there bloodlines is a partial truth, but not entirely true. Sure, there genetics made them tall and probably helped the cause of them being strong basketball players, but they were also top 10 recruits, man. They could have signed with Quinnipiac and probably still made it. Fortunately enough for them, they had scholarships too a team that more regularly competes for NCAA championships.
John Gilchrist one of the biggest snubs around the time in '02, he was arguably a Top3-5 PG in his class. With his style of play he would have been a no-brainer if he was from the Big Apple. I think school choice probably had something to do with it. After all he did win a State title his Sr. year & was Virginia's Gatorade Player Of The Year.
He could have made it over Elijah Ingram, but no! Virginia is not on the map with inner city kids like most major cities/states. He was not a headcase back then & his grades were fine 2.9 GPA (not outstanding but good enough).
#11 in Scout.com 2002 PG's. Chris Rodgers, on the other hand, the guy who is rated at #4, was from Oregon and did not make the McDonald's All-American game. Chris was awesome, I knew people that played with him in HS. He went too Arizona (committed way before the game), and obviously was fairly highly rated. VA MAY get slept on, but it is nada compared too the west coast.
Chris was a head case, probably even too some extent in HS (they used too say he was just a weird guy), but I do not remember hearing any grade or GPA issues. He eventually got kicked off of the team his senior year, but, like John Gilchrist, neither of them made the NBA. Not exactly the hugest snubs in the world. Plus, it was not exactly like John was not going too a well known school. Maryland was, after all, in the process of winning a championship. I would say the guy ranked after him, Deron Williams, yeah, maybe that guy should have made the team.
You clearly said who could my guys go in for & I clearly stated Gilchrist over Ingram! Ingram #7 Gilchrist #11 wooptee dee "MAJOR" difference. You make it seem like it is not possible for a guy who is ranked lower to not get the nod over a guy who is higher, it happens ALL THE TIME. According to the geographical nature of the rosters.....Raymond Felton & Elijah Ingram were the only 2 PG's on the East roster, unless they slated Sean Dockery in, but the rest were SG's. Once again you beat around the bush just to bring up a Oregon guy, because you are being biased which is very understandable. You said Jabari Brown got snubbed & should have been in......now I ask you your same exact question. Who does Jabari Brown go in for? I told you who Gilchrist is BETTER then & that the fact area had something to do with his snub. You mean to tell me if he was not from NY or major city, he still would have not made it, because I beg to differ once again.
D-Will was not even better than Dee Brown, Dee was still the man on that Illini team amongst him, D-Will & Head! (again changes the subject about the Gilchrist snub) According to Scouts.com Horton #2 Roberson #3 Brown #5 Williams #12 so who does he replace & BTW Gilchrist was better then D-Will according to HS rankings.
Both guys you named Chris Rodgers & Deron Williams are irrelevant to my argument for Gilchrist. Both guys would had to beat out that STACKED West roster unlike the East.
I've been come to the realization that you don't like nothing I say regardless if I have a VALID point or not, because you are ALWAYS going to throw your jab no matter what.
VA is not slept on, but the public school kids are. If you are not prep you are irrelevant in this State.
Again! because I want to sound redundant........... I have faced reality when it comes to Virginia prospects heading to the Mickey D's Game. If you are not attending a powerhouse such as Oak Hill/Hargrave, prep school or sign with a MAJOR D1 program you will not be a Mickey D's participant & that's FACT! Standout HS prospects don't make it from public schools in VA.
Coming from a Duke fan...I still shake my head as to how Marshall Plumlee got selected to be a McDonald's All-American. I presume it was because they wanted him to compete in the Dunk competition (and also because he's from Duke) but if they wanted an amazing dunker they could've just gotten Nick Jacobs!!
He also probably got in because of the weakness at the center position and the selection commitee had to settle on Plumlee because there was simply no other choice even though there were 30 Point guards/ wings that were clearly better than him.
Plumlee is a goof ball and will likely not see the court all year. Good kid but will probably red shirt because he's too skinny.
2011 NBA All-Stars* (omitted international players)
- Derrick Rose: McDonald's All-American
- Dwyane Wade:
- LeBron James: McDonald's All-American
- Amar'e Stoudemire: McDonald's All-American
- Dwight Howard: McDonald's All-American
- Ray Allen:
- Chris Bosh: McDonald's All-American
- Kevin Garnett: McDonald's All-American
- Joe Johnson:
- Paul Pierce: McDonald's All-American
- Rajon Rondo: McDonald's All-American
- Chris Paul: McDonald's All-American
- Kobe Bryant: McDonald's All-American
- Kevin Durant: McDonald's All-American
- Carmelo Anthony: McDonald's All-American
- Tim Duncan:
- Blake Griffin: McDonald's All-American
- Kevin Love: McDonald's All-American
- Russell Westbrook:
- Deron Williams:
They hit the nail on the head on 70% of this years NBA All-Stars
With the fact that high school recruiting is so difficult and drafting guys into the NBA even moreso, to be able to predict 70% of the NBA All-Stars only by watching high school games and AAU circuits is pretty damn impressive to me.
So what if your favorite high school player did not get selected. So what if guys from Duke and UNC get a heads up. Am I going to trust the coach from Virginia Union that Ben Wallace should be a McDonalds All-American or will I lean on legendary coaches like Mike Kryzewski and Roy Williams? I think I'll pick the latter.
If you think the system is flawed, lets do this. Select current NBA players that were not McDonald's All-Americans and I'll create a roster of guys that were (not international guys). We'll see who has a better team. I'm damn sure my lineup of Rose, Bryant, James, Stoudmire, and Dwight is greater than any possible lineup you can find.
Dude, it is because sometimes, YOU MAKE THINGS UP. How do you know Gilchrist was BETTER than Elijah Ingram, who had won MVP's and had a nice college career? How is Chris Rodgers irrelevant too this argument? Your whole "VA public school kids get slept on :(" thing, and an Oregon prospect, who was ranked 4 instead of 11 (fair difference, wouldn't you say?) did not get chosen because of a "stacked West?". Dude, people from FLORIDA played on the West this year, geographical regions in McDonald's are pretty flexible.
The thing that gets me, is your argument is based on John Gilchrist being a "top 3-5 PG", you get caught red handed that he indeed, may not have been, and than you say it is because I have some vendetta against you? It is not against you, memphis, it is against bull$hit. When someone says something that might not have been correct, or does not necessarily have evidence (or the evidence they stated) too back it up, than I have a tendency to try to back it up. I try to present the facts, and I apologize if you think I would not do this to anyone else who stated something that could indeed, not be true or backed up with evidence.
Here are the PG's that made the 2002 Game:
Elijah Ingram, New Jersey (Not New York, was going to St. John's)
Daniel Horton, Texas (went to Michigan)
Raymond Felton, South Carolina (went to North Carolina)
Anthony Roberson, Michigan (went to Florida)
Dee Brown, Illinois (went to Illinois)
Sean Dockery, Illinois (went to Duke)
Now, it seems too me like 3 East and 3 West. It also seems to me like all of them were rated higher in those rankings. Unless you could clearly find John Gilchrist busting up any of these guys at the time, your whole "top 3-5" argument seems fairly baseless. Here is another chart of where players were ranked on average:
Elijah Ingram: #28
John Gilchrist: #43
Whoop dee dee. Well, John Gilchrist MAY have been better, but it appears that he really does not have that much of a case, and it certainly was not in those rankings you were pointing too. I realize you are from Virginia. Well, I lived in Oregon and I know that some Oregon kids have gotten snubbed as well. In this case, it seems like the one snubbed might have been more highly regarded than your snub. I like that you did in fact name a player, but as I said, you could do so and still be wrong. I remember the 2002 game well, it was the game my last year of HS, and I do not remember John Gilchrist indeed being as much of a snub as you indeed make him out to be. I do not think that your VA PS bias is incredibly real. Yes, it sucks that people born in your home state do not make the McDonald's Game that often, but that could come with the fact that you have power house prep schools sending members there on the yearly. Still, your list has a lot more people on it than have been selected from the state of Oregon. Repping for your home state is cool, but I can also rep for mine and give proper, and backed up, evidence, without being a "hater".
The true argument of this thread is really about major snubs and why they are being omitted, particularly over curious selections. McDonalds is the most prestigious game because of its age and popularity. I think the argument is, that at one time the selection process targeted the best 22-24 players. There are always gonna be NBA all-stars emerging from this game because there will hardly be any top-10 recruit who will be left off unless they are 5th year seniors. Some however are, like this year's Quincy Miller.
I think it would be more intriguing if you were to match up players who we feel should not have made the teams against those who were snubbed out the same year and look at the disparities there. Its only flawed in our minds if our criteria differs from the selection committee. For the most part it is what it is...the top players sign with big name schools for the most part. Any top player in high school almost always attends a prep school by the time he is a senior.
I think all of the factors we went over in this thread are major criteria for MAA's. The school they attended, the school they will be attending, and grades factor in as well.
Finney-Smith obviously had 2 strikes against him in terms of HS and College teams if going by MAA criteria. On the other hand, Finney-Smith is a better prospect than some players on that team and he had an excellent high school career. I am going to back off saying it is flawed and in this case the overused cliche "it is what it is" definitely applies.
I will say it is, indeed, what it is. I mean, we sometiems do not know how good these players will turn out to be, and who is better than who. Plus, we do not know all of the criteria used to garner a spot. Quincy Miller would have definitely had a spot had he not torn his ACL, but it just so happened that the major ommissions, other than Dorian Finney-Smith, were west coast guys. I think HS team ranking plays a part in it, as well, and yes, maybe, unfortunately, college choice. Here were mine I made the morning before the teams were announced:
Definitely supported Dorian Finney-Smith, Tony Wroten, Jabari Brown and Nick Johnson making the team (though I think I chose Deuce Bello more for the Dunk contest, lol). Guys I left off:
Khem Birch: Liked him as a choice, thought he might not have made it due to his coming up from his original 2011 class, but he is a great prospect and played well in the game
Chane Behanan: Had no problem with Chane's selection either. His pro prospects may be questionable, but he was chosen as the NBAPA Top 100 Camp MVP and he should have a very nice career.
Marshall Plumlee: He is incredibly tall, in a class lacking size, but I am not very high on his pro-prospects. Of course, he had a brother in the game (didn't Mason win the dunk contest also?) and was signed with Duke. So, even without the family ties, I believe he might have been selected due to the whole "Duke" thing. From everything I had read, had a fairly average senior year, and I am also unsure of his pro prospects.
Amir Williams: I think he had a pretty solid senior year, and had a pretty decent summer. Believe he was on the USA U-17 team. Still, I feel like there were more talented players in the class who deserved the bid over Amir.
Brad Beal: I am an idiot for leaving him off the list, and I am fairly sure that was just a major oversight. I think Bradley Beal deserved to be on the team as much as any SG in the country (well, along with Austin Rivers).
So, if I had to drop one for the obvious inclusion of Beal, my selection of Bello was probably something that never would have happened had I been cognitive at the time that Beal was not on my list. As for the others, I might have dropped Brown and Johnson for Chane and Khem Birch, as the game would have lacked a little size. Still I feel that Wroten and Finney-Smith would have been major upgrades over Amir Williams and Plumlee. But, as you said, it is what it is. I do not know if it is flawed, but certain schools seem to get a lot more noms than others and certain places are definitely overlooked at times. Still, there is always the Jordan game, plus, keeping in mind that while 33.3% of NBA players may have been McDonald's All-Americans, a much more healthy percentage of them were not. The most you can really hope for are that the top ranked players get selected, but in the last few selections, there will always be room for debate.
Every single allstar game at every level will have a snub because there just isn't enough spots and a player ranked number 25 isn't much different from a player ranked 30
Just realized no player from the Pac-12 made the roster....Tragic!