This topic contains 39 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar Endlessknight 5 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #68229
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    Endlessknight
    Participant

    People keep talking about Mitchell as if he was the 2nd coming of Jordan and Fultz as if he were an Anthony Bennett level bust but what everyone keeps over looking is that Mitchell is 2 years older than Fultz (19 vs 21)

    When Mitchell was Fultz’s age he was a freshman in college averaging 7.4 points a game college.

    Despite all his issues Fultz is putting up better overall numbers at 19 in the NBA than Mitchell put up at 19 in the NCAA!

    Fultz is bigger, has a better handle, is the better passer and the better slasher. This won’t even be close in two year.

    Fultz was the 2nd youngest player drafted in the first round last year. In the one and done era these kids are drafted on potential and Fultz’s potential is still higher than Mitchell’s.

    People need to stop being so short sighted and reactionary.

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  • #1114821
    Robb_CRobb_C
    Robb_C
    Participant

    Lmao let it gooooo…

     

     

     

     

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  • #1114822
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    Endlessknight
    Participant

    Such a brilliant rebuttal!

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    • #1114824
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      whiteflash
      Participant

       Honestly, what is he supposed to say? You have your mind made up on something you can’t prove and are defensive about. Mitchell has far exceeded expectations. Fultz has not looked good. Maybe one or both of these things change. Maybe they don’t. Not sure what else to write here. 

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  • #1114825
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    220
    Participant

     I’m glad Fultz has come back to be productive for the 76ers late in the year. It certainly changes the narrative on him a little bit. At the very least no one should be mentioning him as an Anthony Bennett level bust.

    Donovan Mitchell has been phenomenal and I imagine most of the teams who passed on him are kicking themselves at the moment.

    All that being said, the rookie year is just one year. Things can change. There have been rookies who look like busts in their first year who turn around to be really strong players and there have been great rookies who never put it together again after their rookie year. I’m rarely ready to declare anyone as outstanding or as a bum after a single season.

     

     

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  • #1114826
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    2quick4u
    Participant

     this is just getting ridiculous…not only you don’t have enough minimizing Mitchell to its minimal expression when comparing his rookie season with Simmons and the ROY award, but now you’re doing it even more putting Fultz over him, when as talented as Fultz is he’s still done nothing…

    to go even further, you say that Mitchell is being treated like the 2nd coming of Jordan when actually he’s been disrespected and discredited by most people, treating him basically like a "good scorer" in the best case and like a choker many time…

    i’m gonna give some information to see if you’re able to understand the type of season Mitchell is having, because if we have to talk about an historical rookie season, we have to talk about Mitchell and not about Simmons. (needless to say even less about Fultz).

    Now that you’ve mentioned MJ, i’ll tell you that him and Mitchell are the only guards in the history of the league since 1952 when the ROY started, that have lead their teams in scoring during their rookie year while at the same time have made the playoffs. (if finally Utah mkes it).

    no other guard in the history of the league has achieved such thing, not even Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Tiny Archibald, Earl Monroe, Walter Frazier, Rick Barry, Pete Maravich, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Clyde Drexler, Jason Kidd, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant, Wade, Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, John Wall, Damian Lillard, Kyrie Irving, Ben Simmons or any other, you name it… NO ONE

    but i’ll tell you something else, it happens that between these 2 players that have done it, MJ and Mitchell, the Utah rookie is the only one of the 2 that has a positive (over 50%) record, as MJ’s Bulls finished that 1984-85 season with a 38-44 record while Mitchell’s Utah have already a 46-33 record with still 3 games to play…

    so let me recap Mitchell’s rookie season again:

    . He’s the only guard in the history of the league to lead his team in scoring as a rookie while leading his team to playoffs with a positive record, surpassing Michael Jordan.

    . Only 4 other rookies in the history of the league have done such thing: Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem, Larry Bird and David Robinson; Mitchell will be the 5th player to accomplish this, but at 6’3 he’ll be the shortest player by far to achieve it, which is even more impressive due to the difficulty implied.

    . He’s the only rookie in the history of the game to lead his team in scoring in a 11 win streak, breaking Wilt Chamberlain’s record with 10.

    . He’s the fastest rookie to score 150 triples and with still 3 games left, he’s only 7 triples away to get the record, surpassing Lillard or Curry whom is considered the greatest shooter of all time.

    . He’s won the slam dunk contest.

    . He’s broke Utah’s franchise record for more points by a rookie with 41.

    . He’s done all this after Utah lost his franchise player and 90% of media said Utah would be one of the worst teams in the league.

    as you can see Mitchell deserves to be in the ROY conversation and you should stop that nonsense about Fultz being better; Fultz has lots of talent and might end up being a great player but unless he does something similar to Mitchell in the next 2-3 years, you can’t put Fulz and Mitchell in the same sentence and there’s no debate.

    I think there’s only one people here being reactionary.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    • #1114827
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      Endlessknight
      Participant

      Dude, no one is reading your novel.

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    • #1114828
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      holefillers1
      Participant

      No offense but those “accomplishments” are cheesy and certainly not a reason to “talk about Mitchell and not about Simmons”. Honestly Mitchell cracking the 20ppg is the most impressive thing he is doing. Slam dunk was weak. Your 11 game win streak is a team stat, not an individual stat and breaking Utah rookie scoring records will not get you on the cover of Sports Illustrated. Plenty of retired players believe Mitchell is the ROY…like TMac. No one is slighting him…but you did see what Ben did to Cleveland last night right?

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      • #1114829
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        SubZero
        Participant

        Thank you, seeing people say Donovan isn’t getting any love is so infuriating. Every NBA post on Facebook regarding any rookie, there are way more comments talking about how he should get it and that Simmons isn’t a rookie blah blah blah

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      • #1114873
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        2quick4u
        Participant

         i think you’ve not really understood what Mitchell is doing this year, so just in case let me break it down for you.

        Mitchell is the only guard in history with Michael Jordan to lead his team in scoring his rookie year and take his team to playoffs, and he’s the first and only guard in history to do it with a positive record.

        only 4 other players in history have done that:

        . Witl chamberlain: whom at 7’1 is considered by many the most dominant player in history and the most athletic freak and was by far the most dominant player in the 60’s. He’s an all time top 5 player.

        . Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: at 7’2 another athletic freak and the player that has scored most points in the history of the game; he was the most dominant player in the 70’s. He’s an all time top 5 player.

        . Larry Bird: at 6’9 he and Magic Johnson (6’9) were the most dominant players in the 80’s, and totally changed the way basketball was played until then. He’s an all time top 10 player.

        . David Robinson: a 7’1 freak of nature considered by many the most athletic center not named Wilt. Altough Robinson has earned himself the right to be on this list, we cannot forget that he was an "special" rookie as he was 24 when he entered the league, 2 years later than supposed to, so it would have to be seen if he would have achieved this accomplishment as a 22 yo rookie. Nevertheless he’s considered an all time top 15-20 player.

        to comprehend how difficult it is to belong to this list, MJ the best player of all time and the most dominant player in the 90’s, was not able to accomplish such thing, although at least he took his team to playoffs, being the only guard in history to do it for now, which shows how difficult is such thing for a "small player".

        To the list of guards that have not been able to be part of that list and that i’ve put in the other post, you can add players like Bill Russell, O’Neal, Duncan, Olajuwon, Lebron James, Elgin Baylor or Durant among others…

        Mitchell at 6’3 (if he makes the playoffs) will be the 1st guard in history to do it and the shortest of the 5 players in the list.

        to belong to that list it means that not only you have to be a great player, but a dominant force, a once in a generation player that dominates the league…3 out of 4 players on the list are top 5-10 players in the all time list and were the most dominant players in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s respectively;then you have Robinson that was an "special" 24 year old rookie. And then you have MJ as the best player of all time and the most dominant player in the 90’s who came short but at least was the only guard in history to lead his team in scoring and make the playoffs..

        and here you have Donovan Mitchell at 6’3, about to accomplish something that not even MJ did and that only some of the most dominant players in history have been able to do…

        so are these accomplishment really cheesy¿?

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

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        • #1114908
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          holefillers1
          Participant

           You just called Donovan Mitchell a once in a generation player…very cheesy

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    • #1114833
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      whiteflash
      Participant

       I support all of this other than his "winning" the dunk contest. He was gifted that win; Dennis Smith actually won that contest.

      Also, what’s up with all the over the top Philly supporters here? Fultz has not played well, and hasn’t really done anything than put up less than mediocre numbers in garbage time. He may eventually be alright (though I’ve said from the beginning that he won’t pan out), but quite a few folk around here act like he’s the second coming. 

       

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    • #1115033
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      220
      Participant

       Carmelo Anthony also led his team in scoring as a rookie and made the playoffs.

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      • #1115640
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        2quick4u
        Participant

         yes you’re right i missed Carmelo, although that doesn’t change the fact that Mitchell is still the only guard with MJ to do such thing, and the only guard in history to do it with a positive record.

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  • #1114830
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    TheLastWord
    Participant

     Comparing 5 games to what Mitchell has done for nearly 82 is laughable. Mitchell is double teamed constantly being the main threat at Utah where all Fultz has to do is play off Ben Simmons no one even cares about him yet. Also Mitchell may not be as tall but has a longer wingpan and much more athletic, so no advantage there. Fultz is still a head case and his shot is broken, he may still bust.

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    • #1114831
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      Endlessknight
      Participant

      Yep comparing 10 games of Fultz to 70 plus of Mitchell is laughable. Just like comparing an injured 19 year old to a healthy 21 year old.

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    • #1114842
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      holefillers1
      Participant

       

      Fultz doesnt play off Simmons. I believe they have shared the court for a total of 3 minutes.  He is the primary backup to Ben.

       

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  • #1114832
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    JDB12
    Participant

     I’m just think that none of you will change each other’s mind and we should just revisit this in 2 or 3 years… haha

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  • #1114838
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    weballin.net
    Participant

    and because Mitchell is older doesn’t mean he isn’t having an incredible season. He basically plays Hayward’s role as a rookie and is the clear leader and scorer.

    He scores 20pts per game while only shooting 33% from three, which means he still has room to improve and is a solid defender and passer. 

    weballin.net

     

     

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  • #1114845
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    Karey Eyo
    Participant

     I am the bigger 76ers fan there is and I have seen Donovan Mitchell play frequently and it disgusts me that people’s fandom supercedes just how gifted that kid is. Now I am all for the Ben Simmons over D Mitchell ROY and player assessments because it is not close. But, Fultz at the moment is not in the same class as Donovan Mitchell. Heck, the kid is like a top 20 scorer already. Seriously, Sixers fans need to objectively watch a Jazz game. He plays with Gobert and Favors who clog the freak out of the lane and still balls out. What is wrong with you people? 

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  • #1114846
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    jjj10man
    Participant

     Mitchell is still graded on that abysmal rookie scale where we ignore all his flaws and judge him as a first year player ( I remember this guy named Malcolm Brogdan that was "so amazing" once apon a time and now you never hear about him).

    Mitchell is undersized and has no passing or rebounding potential; he might never make a all star game if the West stays stacked at guard. Once this ROTY hype blows over (which he has no chance of winning) lets see how relevent he is in Utah

     

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    • #1114847
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      Karey Eyo
      Participant

       This is true but to say him and Brogdon is comparable as players is ridiculous. They are not close to the same caliber of player. Do you watch Mitchell play? Or do you look at box scores? There are only two people who create their own shot on that team and Ingles sometimes. What are you guys watching? Markelle going be raw but you have to stop discrediting how potent Mitchell’s scoring is.

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  • #1114848
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    OhCanada-
    Participant

    Fultz is an unreal prospect noones doubting that but he just hasnt played well and hes being forcefed everything. He gets two rotations a game and then whatever garbage time is available. His rotation starts as the opposing teams starters are about to end thier shift so he gets 2-3 minutes against a tired unit and then 5-7 minutes against the 2nd unit. Mitchell is being gaurded by every teams best defender. 

    Fultz has shown the tools to become a great player but theres lots of kids in the NBA in the same position. Donavan Mitchell has been leading his team to the playoffs its night and day. This is like an Orlando fan saying Jonathan Isaac is a better prospect than Jayson Tatum. Right now there is really nothing that can support Fultz over Mitchell.

     

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  • #1114849
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    kobyz
    Participant

     Fultz jumper is MKG level ugly right now!!!

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    • #1114851
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      OhCanada-
      Participant

       Who would you compare Fultz too longterm.

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  • #1114863
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    ZachAttack
    Participant

     Alright…

    As much as it hurts to say this, I am finally admitting that Simmons is a better rookie and probably will be a better player than Mitchell when his career is over. What he’s been doing with Philly with Embiid out is unreal and I definitely didn’t expect it. But when I saw the title of this post I thought it was gonna be one of those posts that says who would you rather have 3-5 years down the road, not that Fultz is playing better than Mitchell right now. This is completely laughable. I actually used to have a respect for you EndlessKnight, and thought you had some good basketball insight, but it looks like your fandom is getting the best of you right now. Almost as bad as holefillers and scarecrow. What Mitchell is doing this year is something we haven’t seen since MJ and he’s even better than MJ in some aspects in his game right now. Such as 3 point shooting. Watching every single Jazz game this season, I’ve seen Mitchell make a lot of mistakes but for every mistake, he makes three of four plays that a rookie shouldn’t be able to make, similar to Simmons. Fultz on the other hand has played 11 games and only gets 6.8 ppg in the games he’s played. To say Fultz is better than Mitchell after he’s only played 11 games and hasn’t been able to even get near Mitchell’s level of production, leadership, and feel for the game is a complete joke. Let Fultz play an entire season before you start saying he’s better than one of the future superstars in the league. Fultz may be a bust in the end for all you know. Mitchell has already proved he won’t be

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    • #1114866
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      Endlessknight
      Participant

      See this is exactly my point, talk about hyperbole “What Mitchell is doing this year is something we haven’t seen since MJ and he’s even better than MJ in some aspects in his game right now” . BS

      Mitchell’s rookie season is nearly identical to Steve Francis’ (No where near Jordan’s). Francis had 2 fewer point but 3 more assist as he was asked to play a lot more point than Mitchell is.

      And I’m not declaring Fultz better after 11 games I’m doing after comparing their college careers, a conclusion every scout in the world agreed with, and by comparing them at the same age. 19 year old Mitchell was in college averaging 7.4p 3.4r and 1.7a per game. 19 year old Fultz is in the NBA putting up slightly better numbers than that.

      Mitchell is a nice player, basically Stevie Franchise without the drinking problem, but he (Mitchell) has become so ridiculously over rated while Fultz has become some maligned due to his injury.

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      • #1114877
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        ZachAttack
        Participant

        Fultz was putting up those numbers on a horrible team in a horrible college basketball conference last year. What was his team’s record? 9-22. Doesn’t sound like winning numbers and when you’re the #1 option on a terrible team like that, your stats are gonna be a lot better. Think of your boy MCW on the Sixers a couple years ago. Meanwhile, Mitchell was averaging those numbers on a 25-9 team and he wasn’t even the first option then. That’s not really a fair comparison. Just saying…

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      • #1114888
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        whiteflash
        Participant

         What? One person in the history of the world has made that comparison, and it was in this thread in response to your post. And, I’m pretty sure it was used to illustrate a point, not an actual direct comparison.

        Mitchell and Francis play NOTHING alike. Francis was a hyper-athlete, rebounding pg who played in a more physical era. Mitchell right now looks like turbo Ben Gordon with a handle. Fultz looks like a homeless Dion Waiters with no jumper. He’ll almost certainly get better though, ’cause it’d be hard to be worse.

         

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  • #1114887
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    TheLastWord
    Participant

     Mitchell just put up 28//9/8, bet against this kid at you’re own peril.

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    • #1114912
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      holefillers1
      Participant

       Sweet. Almost got a double double.  That would have been his first…right?

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      • #1114959
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        OhCanada-
        Participant

         Closer then Simmons or Fultz getting thier first three pointer.

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        • #1115003
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          SubZero
          Participant

          This is such a silly thing to focus on when he’s shooting 50%+ from the field on only 4 points less than Donovan Mitchell

          If he could shoot 3s, he’s probably already be a top 5 player in the league. Without it, he’s still an amazing player and the best rookie

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  • #1114891
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    Andv1 Waiting
    Participant

     Lets put it this way:

    Tyreeke evans averaged 20 points 5 boards and 5 dimes for season and Malcom Brogdon had a solid rookie season yet the following are now are outperfoming them: Harden/Curry in Evans case and Jamal Murray in Brogdon’s case.

    So to judge a player on one season is kind of redundant and pointless to write them off just yet.

    In this case Donovan is having the better Rookie year but Futlz may have the better Potential and eventually pass him..But who knows as it will also depend on how the 76ers use him.

    In my opinion its Obvious Donovan has outperformed Futlz to this point/season, but Futlz has shown he at least isnt a full bust and could turn it around with a full training camp. Give 3-4  seasons then see who is better.

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #1114906
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    The Goat
    Participant

     Fight fight fight scratch each other’s eyes out you fxcken cats

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  • #1114935
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    nitestal
    Participant

    You need to try to keep yourself check their buddy. Anyone that minimizes the talent of Donovan Mitchell is either blinded by fanboy-ism or doesn’t understand basketball. There’s a reason why stars in the league rave about this kid…he’s a special talent, and if he stays hungry and motivated he has HoF potential. 

    Fultz, looked great this summer. Watching him play I felt he’s got huge upside. However, because of injury he’s just getting wet, but I can’t wait to see what he becomes as he continues to get more experience. 

    Why can’t both be good? Why has it always got to be a debate? It’s like we gotta put down other players so we feel better about ourselves. Kind of ridiculous.

     

     

     

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    • #1114943
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      whiteflash
      Participant

      Saying Fultz looked "great" in the SL is a bit of a stretch. He looked alright, but struggled doing the things he was touted as being elite at. I know Philly fans are stubborn, and they think everything their sports teams do is the best, but the 76’ers drafted a kid who padded his stats on a team that couldn’t win 1/3rd of its games in a weak conference with the 1st pick. Don’t be surprised if he doesn’t pan out.

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      • #1114946
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        nitestal
        Participant

        Not sure if you thought I was a Philly fan…I’m actually a Jazz fan. I don’t think Fultz was incredible in every game in SLC, but you saw many moments of what everyone was raving about. He’s got talent and upside, no doubt. But he’s still got to prove in on an NBA floor. Time will tell. 

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  • #1115641
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    OhCanada-
    Participant

    You can manipulate per 36 minutes stats, usage rating, per 100 possessions etc. all you want the playoffs is proving that Mitchell is byfar superior to Fultz. This post is just ridiculous.

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    • #1115643
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      Endlessknight
      Participant

      19 year old who’s played 14 games vs 21 year old who’s played 70+ games.

      19 year old Fultz is the youngest player to record a triple double in the NBA, 19 year old Mitchell was averaged 7.4 points a game in college.

      Fultz will be the better player.

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