[McWinningParticipant]

i thin hes already a nice defender and the scoring will come. how good do you think he will be?

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Decent, not a great player. He wont be a top 5 PG but will be a solid PG.

[McWinningParticipant]

he already is solid, what kind of stats do you mean?

[blazerheadfreak]

his avg rite now are 10 pts and 5 ast.that good 4 a rookie he should improve like 14 -15 pts 7 ast. and he is locdown defender and a ball theft he could good not great

[Knicksboy34Participant]

I see Mario Chalmers as a 15ppg-6 to 7 apg guy. I don’t see him being a superstar but a good PG.

[McWinningParticipant]

personnaly i think his ceiling is Chris Paul. im not joking he has that kind of quickness and is a decent shooter, he still has to work on his game, but i think he could be that good.

[MagikKnickParticipant]

extremely underrated, not a top point guard, but hes very productive
The heat have been talking about bringing in Tinsley or Iverson, I suggest they keep Chalmers and develop his offensive game…

At best I see
16ppg, 6apg, and 2.3spg, and keep in mind this is working alongside D-Wade
The heat have a great starting backcourt defense

[Knicksboy34Participant]

….That’s crazy man. He will never be that good. Some of is skills are already maxed out. I dont see him being that good man.

You do realize CP3 is the Best PG in the NBA right?

[foxman2slyParticipant]

Every team needs solid players that fit that aren’t superstars, and that’s what I think Mario will be. As a combo guard that plays good team D, can hit the open 3, and is clutch: he can be what Derek Fisher is to Kobe, or Mo Williams to LBJ.

[McWinningParticipant]

i do but hes already almost as good at D. i think his scoring is down because hes playing beside D Wade. and hes almost as quick, i still question if he can be that good but its possible.

[billykParticipant]

I think Super Mario will be a solid starting PG he is the perfect person to play alongside DWade…. He is a solid 3 point shooter (In his career I can see him among the league leaders).. He is a very good defender (on and off the ball)…. And he is a steady ball handler.. IMO he is limited in the playmaking department and his ability to take his defender off the dribble is really not that great… This season he should average 13-15ppg 6-7asst and 2.5 steals….

[McWinningParticipant]

i dont know if hell ever be as good as Paul but i think he could be almost as good maybe 15-17pts 6-8assts 3stls i think he could be the best defensive point guard in the league 2 or 3 yers from now.

[theasianpersuasionParticipant]

I don’t know… I think that he’s a lot like Rondo to be honest.

lolontharoflcoptermfer – the best analyst to set foot in this post

[McWinningParticipant]

i thought you were working Dhamp?

[theasianpersuasionParticipant]

What? How can you mistake me for someone who lacks my domination?

[McWinningParticipant]

what have you dominated?

[Knicksboy34Participant]

lol…D-Hamp you crack me up

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

I think Mario will be one of the better 3pt shooters in the league in a year or two… that combined with his anticpation on defense will make him invaluable to any team he plays for.

[llperez]

He will be solid, but never in the all-star discussions. Keep in mind that he was very fortunate as a rookie to go to a team where he was basically given the starting job. There are numerous pg’s in the league that could have put up 10-5 if given the starting job while competeing with Chris Quinn for minutes. He’s a goos shooter and defender, but he does’nt have great one on one break you down skills or the ability to get into the lane and finish at will. I think there is still a chance he beomes a solid backup who can occasionally start similar to Chris Duhon, Earl Watson, or Jarret Jack. Putting him into the Chris Paul category is silly at this point.

[McWinningParticipant]

he already is at that point what do you mean he hasa chance to be a solid backup who can start?

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

i think that’s more a reference to his skill level, not necessarily if he’s a starter or not… ya know? like he’s starting-caliber?

[llperez]

I think if he went to a team with a legit starting pg, he would have numbers like 5 points and 2 assists and we probably would’nt be having this discussion. Like I said, lot’s of guys could put up those numbers if they were given the starting spot with no competition. I don’t think he will ever be more then just a solid pg who will fight for minutes and contribute on most teams in his career similar to the guys I mentioned.

[McWinningParticipant]

i think right now hes almost starter caliber hes basicly Steve Blake but he can play defense.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

Steve Blake, IMO, makes way better decisions and shoots the 3 better than Mario. Mario does have him beat athletically, but you can’t trade Blake’s experience

[Knicksboy34Participant]

I dont think Chalmers start on most teams right now

[McWinningParticipant]

he has one thing that most point guards dont have when their fighting for minutes. the fact that hes already one of the better defensive point guards in the league.

[llperez]

there’s nothing wrong with being compared to guys like Watson, Duhon, or Jack. Those are decent contributors who can help any team either off the bench or as a starter. But none of them are gonna dominate games or anything. That’s just how I see Chalmers at this point. A very nice pg who can play, but I doubt he blows up next year.

[McWinningParticipant]

i can see the Jack comparisions but i dont think hes at all like Duhon, or Watson. and another thing with all the great point guards emerging i think most people would rather start a lockdown defender like him, than somone who will get you a little more offense. and i was a ittle preumptios on the Paul comparisions what i meant is he has that kind of quickness and thats his absolute ceiling.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

i hate when ppl say someone is a lockdown defender, when that player goes for as many steals as someone like Chalmers or Rondo or Paul or Iverson… If you’re gambling that much, there are times when you’re getting burned and you can’t be considered a lockdown defender if that’s the case.

[McWinningParticipant]

fine hes a playmaking defender.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

yea, that wasn’t just directed at you- more in general, ppl say that a lot. i like playmaking defender much better. 🙂

[McWinningParticipant]

but him main attribute is sticking like qlue and pestering his oppenent, so hes more of a glue defender.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

xbadge, there are times when bowen or battier get blown by once in awhile, are they considered non-lock down defenders? naw, i wouldn’t think so, i think rondo and paul are above average defensively.

chalmers as a rookie didn’t do bad defensively, in fact, i think he did above average defensively.

I think he could have a 14points-7assists-3rebounds,2steals,2turnover’s a game next season.

[McWinningParticipant]

he got 2 steals last year so maybe 2.5.

[llperez]

I make those watson, Duhon, and Jack comparison’s, I was just throwing names off the top of my head that I think are good comparison’s in terms of the impact Chalmers will have in this league, not necassarily how they play. Who knows, maybe I’m wrong on him. I do think Miami got a definite steal in drafting him in the second round. But I think lot’s of rookies can look like steals if they were given automatic minutes playing next to a superstar. I mean, I think if my boy Jordan Farmar was in Miami last year instead of Chalmers, he could of had like 15 and 6, but I don’t see people comparing him to Chris Paul. I’ll just have to wait and see with Chalmers I guess.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

it’s similar to turning the ball over…look at how many turnovers wade/nash/paul get a game to their assists and steals….the argument you make would sound like you’re not calling them playmakers..yet they are.

I will not overrate paul or rondo defensively…but i will call them above average.

[McWinningParticipant]

i agree Wade helped but even if 10pts a game is because of Wade, 2 stels, and being considered one of the glueist defenders in the league is something Farmar i dont think has.

[llperez]

but there is more to defense. I know Chalmers was only a rookie, but I would have liked to see him step up more in the playoffs to take some of the pressure off of Wade. He was being gaurded by Bibby who is terrible defensively and Chalmers just did’nt step his game up. I think if the Heat have a chance to add a top notch pg, they wouldnt hesitate to do so. At this point, I’m not ready to say Chalmers is my starting pg of the future and we no longer need to address that position. I guess we will find out more about him next season.

[McWinningParticipant]

once you have defense offense will come. plus i doubt Spoestra as a rookie coach was ready to put much pressure on a rookie. thats probably why he didnt even start Beasley.

[the microwaveParticipant]

i have season tickets to the heat, did someone just compare him to Chris Paul????? Come on man you ever seen either of them play? Chalmers is a great defender already, but he does nothing else GREAT as of now. Hes not even consistent…

[McWinningParticipant]

i said that was his absolute ceiling because he has defense and quickness and if he builds on that he can be a good point guard, i dont think hell be close to being that good but i think hell be a good starter.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

The point is, a lockdown defender gets beat, but he gets beat DESPITE the fact that he’s in position (meaning the offensive player actually had to work), not BECAUSE he’s outta position… I donno, basketball is a game of details and small opportunities… it’s not necessarily a bad thing to go for steals because they often lead to easy baskets, but if you go for the steal, you will inevitably miss… and as a result it’s 5-4, which most NBA players can take advantage of…

[McWinningParticipant]

id say hes more like Shane Battier where he sticks to you and annoys the crap out of you. than somone who takes a lot of chances.

[llperez]

Guys often over value steals as a stat. Some guys like Iverson and Alvin Robertson back in the day would lead the league in steals because they took so mant risks, but they were poor man to man defenders. But I do think Chalmers and Rondo are very good defenders. But the term “lock-down” defender is a little over used.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

D Grizz- i don’t really get your point about TOs and and assists… the plain fact is, when you turn the ball over you lost a possession for your team, but, if more often than not you get the dime rather than the assist, than that risk is warranted because you are converting that possession. doesn’t change the fact that you’re turning the ball over every once in a while. a player that never turns the ball over never loses any possessions for his team.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

yea, bird, to be honest I haven’t seen a whole lotta Chalmers in the NBA, but from what I saw he was gambling more than I’d like to see. Battier almost never goes for the steal.

[McWinningParticipant]

haha ill admit it the only reason i said i thought he could be as good as Paul is to get a conversation going, i still think hell be good though.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

DGrizz- i just thought about something else… we don’t have a stat for the number of times that someone actually gets the steal when they go for it (that’s kind of like asst-TO ratio) cuz if you’re getting about 3-1 stls to getting burned, than it’s definitely worth it… but i doubt many in the NBA have that type of stealing efficiency.

if you have a 3-1 asst-TO ratio, that means that you’re converting a lot more possessions that you’re throwing away…

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

bird, i didn’t even pay attention when u compared chalmers to paul cuz that’s just ludicrous. you should stop taking credit for that statement 😉

[McWinningParticipant]

the only reason i said that is because i dont care about the point system, and i wanted to get a conversation started.

[ckowalskiParticipant]

I don’t think anyone will ever mistake Chalmers’ defensive effort for Battier’s. Battier is a much better defender and he can make the superstars like Kobe work hard for their points. Battier does not gamble like Chalmers does either. He is going to make you take a contested jump shot, he is not a good ball thief. I don’t think Chalmers will ever make someone like Chris Paul or Deron Williams frustrated that he could not get the looks he wanted. Chalmers is a good defender, don’t get me wrong, but he just can’t make his man tired working for his points like the elite defenders of the NBA can. Chalmers being a good thief to me speaks more on his instincts of where players are going to go with the ball, rather than being a great lockdown defender and stopping the player with the ball. Chalmers is not the biggest or the fastest guy either, and he can get worked over by a bigger point or a quicker point, simply because he just can’t get in front of his man fast enough.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

what i’m saying is getting blown by which draws another player away from his man leads to opportunity…. that to me is just as bad as the other team getting points off a turnover.

because of those similarities, we can’t call turnover prone players nash/wade/paul etc. non-playmakers. Which leads me to say that chalmers swiping for the ball and getting blown by doesn’t mean he’s not a lockdown defender.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

i disagree.

all things equal… sometimes people are going to get blown by, but the likelihood of getting blown by is way higher if you’re gambling for steals compared to if you’re staying in good position all the time…

i still don’t see the correlation between the turnover-prone players…

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

playmakers turning the ball over doesn’t mean they’re not a playmaker

just as much as

lockdown defenders getting blown by doesn’t mean they’re not a lockdown defender.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

i never said a lockdefender getting blown by means they’re not a lock down defender.

[ckowalskiParticipant]

A lockdown defender can get blown by. It happens, just not enough to talk about it. Sometimes better offense can beat great defense. When Kobe hits a shot with Battier’s hand in his face no one is saying Battier can’t play D. Or when Kobe does that stupid move where he throws it off the backboard and grabs the rebound when he gets trapped. That’s just better offense beating out great defense.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

” If you’re gambling that much, there are times when you’re getting burned and you can’t be considered a lockdown defender if that’s the case. ” – you said this

I’m here to defend that chalmers..is a good defender…and even if he gambles too much and gets burned..it doesn’t mean he’s not a lockdown defender.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

and it also has quite a bit of similarity to playmakers. Playmakers will gamble on wild passes and turn it over…by the above statement you made…it would be like saying if playmakers are wild and turn it over often, you can’t call them a playmaker. i disagree with that idea.

[ckowalskiParticipant]

Chalmers is a good defender, but would you really want him on the guy that is going to take the winning shot for the other team at the end of a game? I wouldn’t. That’s why I don’t consider him a lock down defender.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

I think Mario gambles too much to be considered a lock down defender…you apparently disagree…

I meant, if you’re gambling that much than there are too many times when you’re getting burned BECAUSE of that gamble, and because of the gambling, you can’t be considered a lockdown defender.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

and i’m gonna stick to why i think it’s wrong

playmakers who average 3+ turnovers a game are still considered playmakers…

just like lockdown defenders getting blown by 2-3 times a game..they’re still lockdown defenders.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

being a playmaker is like gambling for a steal (high risk, high reward)… not like being a lockdown defender, which is low risk, low reward (and not gambling) so no, they aren’t the same

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

that’s a flawed argument homie…

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

i don’t think we’re gonna agree for the first time ever on this site, lol. meh, happens sooner or later.

[STEVEDOT2Participant]

Is one of the best defenders in the league….but keep in mind the houston has one of the best defensive coaches in the league…… There coach made the jordan rules a diagram of where jordan likes the ball..his tendceys to shoot in drive and in what locations..his percentages was all in a book……The coach has made the kobe rules also and battier doesnt make it easier… this a book the rules are in ….. battier is great reader and student knows his role and i wont be surprised if he becomes a defensive coach….Battier is a great on ball player his coach makes him even better

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

“just like lockdown defenders getting blown by 2-3 times a game..they’re still lockdown defenders”

like i’ve said, what i meant to say, though i thought i was clear when i first stated it was: gambling too much leads to getting blown by MORE than if you simply positioned yourself well on defense.

to me a lockdown defender is someone who positions themself well and doesn’t gamble for the steal…

[STEVEDOT2Participant]

Yeahh^^^ turnovers will happen natrually…even more if you stick your man tight…somtimes it frustrates the ball handler…I know first hand I have been in fights and arguments over sticking to “close and being physical”

[sheltwon3Participant]

Chalmers could be a second round steal type like Mo Williams was. Their games are different but Mo Williams came out of nowhere to be a starter even made the all Star team even thought that is debatable but it was not like there was a lot of top guys who playing that much better than him. Chalmers got steals but he also could lock players down. Chalmers would be getting Rondo type love if he played with the Celtics instead of Rondo. People forget that Rondo was overlooked until he greats year with the big 3.

[STEVEDOT2Participant]

rondo wasnt overlooked he was and alright player the celtics had high hope for him and he still is an alright player he hasnt done much ppl are in the way with the rondo hype ….ppl think woow he was a hidden gem noo he was always ard hes juss put in the rite situation with the big 3 like you said now he gets the praise….come on

[STEVEDOT2Participant]

rondo wasnt overlooked he was and alright player the celtics had high hope for him and he still is an alright player he hasnt done much ppl are in the way with the rondo hype ….ppl think woow he was a hidden gem noo he was always ard hes juss put in the rite situation with the big 3 like you said now he gets the praise….come on

[joe2BAParticipant]

Mario Chalmers DOES NOT RELY ON GAMBLING IN PASSING LANES TO GET STEALS. Believe me, I’ve watched every game he played in college and most of his steals are from pick pocketing guards dribbling down the court. Anyone who has ever played basketball knows this isn’t as much of a defensive gamble as hawking the passing lanes like allen iverson or baron davis.

The dude is very gifted at this. Mookie Blaylock and Gary Payton are only players I’ve seen with hands as quick and accurate on defense. There is no coincidence that this guy set the Heat franchise record in steals for a game (9), broke the Big 12 record for steals in a season, and was on pace to break ku’s if he stayed 4 years.

I think at worse he is a lindsey hunter who in his prime gets u around 12 points, 5 assists and played stingy D

But he has way more upside and if the Heat continue to develop him alongside D Wade, I think he could be a terrell brandon type guy who in his prime can get u 18 and 7 assists, over 2 steals, and cracks an all star game.

But theres more to guy than stats. He can gel with almost any superstar and I could see him with a couple of rings when he retires. He has some kind of intangible that cannot be taught

[JNixonParticipant]

Chalmers is the classic overachiever. He isnt the most physically gifted player, but he is a leader, he defends, runs the offense, and hits open jumpers. Nothing more nothing less. He’s a starter caliber player, but if you think he’ll be elite, you’ll be very disappointed.

[Allen20Participant]

i think chalmers will be a good pg.he can be as good as he wants to be but he is a beasty defender.top 10 in steals as a rookie? thats pretty good for a like a 6-2 pg.he is pretty clutch if he hit a big shot to win a NCAA championship

[OldSkoolBasketballParticipant]

He will be solid but to have a ceiling to CP3? I dont think so.

[joe2BAParticipant]

agreed

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

In college I think a lot of his steals came picking up full court, but I doubt that he’s had very much success pick pocketing professional PGs. when I saw him play, he did take gambles on steals… Bill Self said the kid had the best anticipation skills he’d ever seen, which implies gambling (anticipating) passes before they happen….

[Author]

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