While I was sitting here, thinking about some things, the Clippers came to my mind.. Well, actually they were on my mind after writing that thing about Blake Griffin.. I was thinking of who they were drafting and Luke Babbitt came to mind.. I dont know much about Babbitt so I thought I'd look around at his body of work in college... Ugh, guess what I found... He is Adam Morrison.
Now.. After that has sank in and a couple people have posted after just reading that, here is why I think that..
He isnt fast at all.. He makes alot of jumpers with guys in his face.. He cant seperate himself from his defender. Not a great athlete but he is better than Morrison.. He isnt faster than Morrison though and Adam is one slow fella... He rebounds better but doesnt shoot quite as well.. He turned the ball over more than Adam but defended a little better..
They both went to small schools.. Adam scored alot more points but Luke got lots more rebounds.. He has a much higher Max Vert but how often does a slow guy get to show is Max Vert??
Both can shoot very well. Both played at small schools.. Both are the same size.. After Thursday, both will have been drafted too high, well according to this site..
This isnt all bad.. Morrison averaged 12 points, 3 rebounds and 2 assist as a rookie.. Babbitt may get a few more rebounds and a couple less points but his number will be right there too.. However, Babbitt wont be labeled a bust like Morrison because he wont be taken top 5 or even top 10 probably..
Am I the last person to board this ship or is this something new?? Also, who agrees and who disagrees??
I agree. I see alot of Adam Morrison in his game too. He's taller, but Babbitt isn't nearly as as athletic as he tested out. He is a terrible defender too when I watch Nevada-Reno play. I think he's going to be best suited as a bench player who comes in to score a little bit and get a few rebounds.
He got alot of fans because people looked at his stats and the combine, but have never watched him play.
Disagree. He isn't a carbon copy of Morrison, far from it. And even if he was, like you said, that necessarily isn't a bad thing.Morrison was productive, and I believe he still can be, and that was only his rookie yr. Babbitt is a completely different player and if you check todays three guards ome are quick, fast and just very athletic but a bunch of great SF's also aren't. Paul Pierce, Danny Granger, Artest etc. are awesome players that aren't necessarily physical freaks, but they have NBA games like Babbitt. I think he will be fine.
Babbitt does share a lot of similarities to Morrison. I think he is a better rebounder, but he isn't the same competitor that Morrison was in college.
Remember that Morrison was put in a tough situation and had a lot of injury issues. If he stayed healthy, he might have been a better player.
Bottom line; Babbitt still has a chance, but teams need to beware. He'll need to be put in the right siutuation to be anything more than a Ryan Anderson type of shooter off the bench.
he's 6'9'' 220, had a very good (10.98) agility score at the combine, a 37.5 in vert and benched 15 reps...none of those hard figures would remind an objective person of adam morrison
babbitt is strong, morrison is physically weak and a diabetic to boot
babbitt is a better shooter than morrison, not the other way around (just check the stats)
babbitt was a mcdonalds all american, has a strong pedigree and seems to have a much stronger constitution than morrison
about separating himself from defenders, there is a great piece of video on youtube of babbitt absolutely breaking some dude's ankles on a wicked jab move, so he can create space
your argument is not really based on anything solid
Not to keep disagreeing with you, butidonthavemoney, but if you check Ryan Anderson's production in games he player 25+ mins he is a very productive player. Not just a shooter, he was relegated to that role mainly because thats just what the Magic do, thats their system, and when you are playing with Howard you will get wide open looks.
I told you. Frijole ghost is exactly what I was referring too in my last post.
Combine, stat reading. Youtuber.
and tried to suggest they were the same player...i gave objective facts suggesting they were not the same player
i have seen they guy play more than once and have looked closely at video- the same thing professionals do on a much smaller scale
in addition, they have combines for a reason...they measure people for a reason...you would have to be stupid to ignore measurements and video and just make blanket judgements that can be proven faulty
IMO, there is not that much similarity between the two players, and i think my argument is stronger
mikenike, I wasn't suggesting that Ryan Anderson isn't a productive player.
So he had one good jab step on a bad defender... He was have a second faster than Morrison in his lane agility test and he was slower in his 3/4 court sprint... So Babbitt when to a school that required him to lift weights..
Babbitt is Morrison with a couple more rebounds and a few less points...
i think hes better than morrison. I think the person you should be ripping on is Hayward hes morrison 2.0
butidonthavemoney, I thought you meant he was just a shooter off the bench, i got you five.
I like Babbitt, but if he has Morrison year 1 production that is great. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that Adam Morrison was coming into the league with the hype as the next Larry Bird. Luke Babbitt is not coming in with any hype besides how he did at the combine. I think Babbitt is a lot like Keith Van Horn a team's 3rd or 4th option offensively can either start or come off the bench.
I'm not ignoring it. I've seen actuial Nevada-Reno games and he's not as athletic as he tested out. They played a game in the NIT and some no-name guy had like 37 points on him. Teams already know Babbitt isn't that athletic, and know he's not going to be a high level scorer. He'll be a bench player. I don't see him beating NBA defenders off the dribble or "making people fall with wicked jab steps."
He reminds me of Austin Croshere or Adam Morrison to be honest, I don't see him being all that good. Youtube videos, WAC statlines, combine results be damned.
Iggy are you trying to say that because he isn't all that athletic he won't be a big time scorer? Don't get me wrong, I don't think he will be either butto say he won't just because he isn't a great athlete doesn't add up. Pierce, Granger, Gallo are all very effective scorers who are not elite athleticism, their skill seperates them
Just watched the majority of the game in the NIT.. I had it DVRd.. I know that you cant judge a player based on one game but you'd think that i'd see a couple flashes of his great athletic ability.. I didnt. I saw alot of iso plays for him.. He posted a few times.. Took bad shots and rebounded pretty well.. Since I have that Morrison idea in my head, I saw alot of Morrison tendencies.. Not fast at all. Not a great defender.. He got switched up on a guard and took right off the dribble like he was standing still...
He had better bulk up and learn to be strong as opposed to athletic.. He could be a guy that comes in and spreads the defense out.. He cant guard the SFs of the league because of speed and he cant guard the PFs of the league because of size..
Danny Granger is actually a well above average athlete.
Paul Pierce is very strong and is a better ball-handler and shot-creator than Babbitt. Also has a good 1st step.
He and Gallinari have similarities, but I doubt he can be that level a player. I very seriously doubt it.
Athleticism isn't the reason for what I'm saying though. Well, not fully. He's not going to be a post up threat like he was in college against NBA players. That was a huge percentage of his production in college. Doesn't look likely to translate to me that much. Also, his D is what will make his time short. Adam Morrison was a great scorer, but he couldn't defend. I see Babbitt having the same problem. His lack of quickness is very evident on D and is more of a problem than on offense.
Morrison's 13 points per game really isn't that impressive once you look at how inefficient he was during that year. The only reason he scored that many points is because Charlotte pretty much forced him to create his own offense on a nightly basis, something that isn't a strength of his at this level.
Babbitt is nothing like Morrison was in college...Babbitt will be a productive player...A good 6th man, but he is a liability on defense.
Babbitt elevates much better and will score over NBA defenders. His moves are quicker. He'll get seperation.
Morrison cannot elevate and does not have any quickness to speak of. Huge reason why he struggles to score over NBA defenders.
If Babbit is a bust, it will be for different reasons than Morrison was a bust.
Babbit appears to have much broader shoulders and is 20 lbs. heavier than Morrison with even less body fat than Ammo(see combine measurements).
As a Charlotte area resident, I've seen plenty of Morrison. If he had ANY bulk whatsoever to go with his length, he would have been a decent NBA player. But the guy is just a rail with no physical presence on the court. A boy among men.
Babbit seems very different in that regard. His 9 rebounds a night is very heartening. I see productive rebounding at one's college position to be a good predictor for NBA abilities.
Also, all other things being equal, lefties have a defensive advantage over righties, with their ability to "mirror up" on all of the right-handed players out there.
At 6'8, 198 lbs., it was Morrison's lack of bulk in conjunction with no explosiveness that hurt him in the NBA. Watching Adam try to D-up Carmelo Anthony or Paul Pierce was always frightening. At least Babbit has way more of the bulk to give him a fighting chance.
This guy with ANOTHER potential first rounder did NOTHING in college to force ANY attention to Nevada this year... Especially a talentless College Season. To say he is far from Adam? How? I feel like thats disrespectful to Adam... At the end of the day you have to stop looking at stats and measurements and look at the body of work... Which Luke has done nothing... Not even against small-schools... And you telling me he is going to be better than a player who was the player of the year in college? And they have a similar game? I don't see this 6th man, star player, or even role player y'all speak of... A wasted pick in a wasteful draft... I'm sorry... I'm not taking a slow white guy in the top ten ESPECIALLY if he couldn't dominate in college... Name ANY slow white guys that's doing great in the league right now that didn't dominate while he was in College... Name one... Just 1!!!
hmmm it seems that nba gms dont agree with ya'' as far as him not being as great of a athlete as he seems because teams are saying he is very athletic after watching him in workouts. as far as defense...how many guys are even pretty good defenders in college?..i just finished reading scouting reports on alot of guys on draftexpress and each one has a common theme, not a very good defender( few exceptions) i think we make too much of a issue out of how bad a defender some of these guys are. and we dont take into account the load they have on offense where they dont have the energy to be a good defender and a good offensive player. hell most nba players cant do both at a high level. and he wont be asked to carry a team in the nba on top of having team defenders and being able to concentrate more on defense since he wont have to carry the offensive load.
on top of all that they are 2 different players. not really as similar as some people try to make them out to be. i guess because they are tall white guys with jumpers then they must be pretty similar
Funny, I read an article about him not being as athletic as people thought in workouts.
yeah there are conflicting reports about everything in this draft. ive read some that say udoh has done bad in workouts and others that say hes done well. the same with a couple other prospects. so yeah it is pretty funny
When a white guy suddenly is seen as athletic we're all over him. Come on guys, Babbitt may just happen to be a very good athlete that hasn't been noticed until now. We wouldn't be saying this about a black guy, now would we????
It's also funny that he says stuff like NBA GM's don't agree with you......like he has any ties to an NBA GM. Pretty funny to me. I read the same stuff as everybody else, and I haven't come across anything that says he's really athletic. Add in the fact that I trust my own 2 eyes over everyone else, and I don't see a player that plays as athletic as he tested out.
forgot to add....you are as fast or strong or jump as high as you test out to be. that doesnt mean you always use those things in youre game though. you dont jump say 40inch then all of a sudden youre not as high of a jumper and he tested to be. that makes no sense. but players dont always use that int here games. ive played against guys who jump out the gym or are pretty fast in test but when they are on the floor they dont seem to jump as high or move as fast with the ball because its just not in there game or they do other things well that causes them not to use it much. mayo jumps out the gym but he shoots so well and doesnt drive to the whole much so you would never know that he has a 40inch vert because he doesnt incorperate that into his game
Alright Iggy, I am jumping off the bandwagon. I wasn't on for long anyways. I think there might be some room left on the Paul Georg.........nope all full. Ok, Alabi it is!
When someone says a guy isn't as athletic as they tested out, they mean that they don't play basketball as athletic as they tested out. Not that they literally aren't as athletic as they tested. Well, at least that's what I mean.
I SAY gms dont agree with you because i read and listen to the podcast and articles from ginovany( spelled his name wrong im sure) who talks to these guys. he could be making this stuff up but from what i heard he actually does talk to these guys. and like i said in the past two people can watch the same game and see two different things
example...some saying favors is very skilled while others say hes raw
some saying kobe is no where near jordan while others say hes almost or just as good
HROT88, what are you talking about lol?
as far as my personal opinion...im not that high or low on babbit. to be honest i wouldnt take him inside the top 15...but that might be just me...if it was up to me these guys would be picked before him'
lol..i know(about george) i recall alot of peopel on here saying he wont be a first round pick or might go at the end of the first at best( there was a post about it. i think i can find it)
It's one thing not playing D and being a liability on D... 2) The players you probably looked up were EXTREMELY talented on Offense where it over shadowed their defense. Luke is decent... Maybe late first or early second. Now, Lotto??? What? If he's in the lotto that shows how weak this draft really is... But regardless I've never seen a slow white SF who DIDN'T dominate in College do well in the NBA... I really don't believe a slow SF who DID dominate in College will do well in the NBA... The SF position is a wasteful pick... Unless they have undeniable talent ie LeBron, Melo, KD, they shouldn't be drafted so high, unless its because of defense or extreme potential... Adam Morrison, Josh Childress, Marvin and Shawne Williams, Alexander, Yaroslav Korolev was all taken in the Lotto... The only players thats actually doing ok at SF without the extreme potential is Jeff Green and maybe Dano (but he's playing in an inflated system)... So, are you really going to put your chips into a SLOW SF who can't even dominate college ball??? Unless you guess haven't noticed the NBA game is becoming LESS skill MORE athleticism... Soooooooooooo, how does Luke make sense that high again?
I agree with that list of guys over Babbitt Quincey.
nope the guys i looked up werent exteremely talented on offense
and just because hes taken lotto doesnt mean the draft is weak. is the lebron draft weak because darko was taken second or was that just one team preference?...defense can be learned. people keep saying someone is a bad defender like they can never learn to be a good defender. its the same with shooting and rebounding. players cant get tallener( most cases) or jump much higher but they can become better defenders. im not saying his defense was bruce bowen but it wasnt horrible it was right around the average for a starter at his position in college
history has shown a couple of players slow for there position become good players. defense isnt just how quick you are. if you can beat a guy to a spot or cut off the lane then you will be in good shape. no one expects him to shut down the nba super star small fowards because no one can. all he would have to do is make sure the players he guards dont go wayyy over there average and even being a soso defender he can do that with many sf because the other team doesnt set up there offense to feature that guy. people arent taking that into account. a center can come into the nba and be a average to below average defender and still do well on defense, you know why?. because most teams dont plan there offense around getting there center the ball alot. plus team defense. you dont have to be a good defender to be a starter in the nba
While in high school we have school records (I'm sure all do) like Bench Press, Running, Vert etc... Well this upper class-man at my school was about 6"2 and had the record for vert around 34'', not really huge but the guy could fly, 360's, between the legs, windmills just explosive... Then a couple years later my friend broke it... My friend 6'4, broke the record for reach, and got a 38'' vert... BUT the fool could BARELY dunk... That's why I don't believe all the combine hype... Unless he lost weight or you can tell he was playing half speed in games... Luke is/was nothing close of me saying "This guy is athletic"...
See, you don't see my point... Its one thing if you DON'T play D and you CAN'T play D... The '03 draft was deep because OUTSIDE of LeBron was Melo, Bosh, Wade, Hinrich, Mo Will, Josh Howard..... Darko had nothing to do with that??? Outside of Turner and Wall (maybe a couple of potential picks) its a wash... BUT Luke Babbit shouldn't be taking that high in ANY draft son... That's a huge hell no... They could pay me half of those Millions for 4 years and I could be a better cheerleader than he ever could be...
hes athletic..thats been proven. its obvious that he doesnt incorporate it into his game like his test show. ive had this same arguement with a friend about ray allen. he didnt think he was that athletic because he mostly shot midrange and deep shots. he changed his mind after we looked up a couple games where he decided to go to the whole and put it on some big mans head. it seems most guys who can shoot arent considered every athletic even though its far fromt he truth. the turth is that they shoot so well that they dont really need to show there athletisim. the great ones do both though...its the same with someone whos considered a great athlete. they are known to be no to good of a shooter since thts not incorporated into there game(some exceptions of course)
I'm not sold on Luke... Did anybody watch the second round NIT game vs Rhode Island? He was MURDERED...
I don't know how he'll do in the NBA, but in college, Babbitt was a better player than almost every other projected small forward in this draft. He scored 22 per game, and was more effective creating his shot and scoring in isos than any other of the projected small forward in this draft. He was his teams top player, and was very effective in college. By your logic, He should be drafted before Aminu, Johnson, and George. Babbitt's problem is defense, not offense. He can create his own shot.
Yessssss...That's what I was talking about! He gave up like 37 points to a guy I had never heard of.
He once competed in the dunk contest.
Who did Nevada play against though? Other than North Carolina, who had a down year, they didn't play against anybody significant. And Babbitt struggled vs the length of North Carolina. He struggled ***signficantly*** vs Rhode Island too.
He is a white boy who is being talked about as a Morrison, Jackson, Dunleavy type.... Does that sound like a lottery player to anyone??
You have two potential lotto picks and they make the NIT? SMDH... I'm not really sold on Gordon Hayward, BUT I will take him way ahead of Luke... Similar games different results... And the man ISN'T athletic STOP saying that because his max Vert was high... You only take a chance on guys who didn't produce that high if they have potential, ie Rudy Gay... Luke Babbit??? Really??? I tell you what if he's sees 20+ minutes a game his rookie season I'll say you are the greatest mind known to man... I'm not even making it hard by saying 10 to 15 points... Just 20+ minutes...
I don't think he'll be a star, but he definitely could be a similar player to Hedo Turkoglu. Yes, he didn't play against high level competition, but Paul George faced the same competition, and wasn't productive the way Luke was easily. He won't get the chances to score in isos that much in the NBA, but he could be effective. He needs to be on a team that has good team defense, however, to mask his own deficiencies. He can shoot extremely well off the dribble, better than any other player in this draft with the possible exception of Willie Warren.
I'm not sold on Paul George either to be honest with you...
I'm with him... This is just a bum as draft... Go with a high risk/reward pick and call it a day... Or specialty picks Monroe or defensive minded Bradley... This makes no sense...
Babbitt does play athletic.
He's taller than Morrison.
He's bigger than Morrison.
He's quicker than Morrison.
His wingspan is longer than Morrison's.
He's physically stronger than Morrison.
His max vertical is 37.5 inches which is 7.5 inches higher than Morrison's -- a huge athletic difference.
There is no comparison. If anything, he's a SF version of Nowitski with (healthy) Manu-athleticism.
His moves are quick.
He elevates higher.
He gets seperation -- crafty head fakes, jab steps, quick twists and turns, etc.
He scores a lot like Dirk and Pierce, face up, post up, off the dribble, from three, you name it.
Turkoglu, Stojakovic (prime), Pierce, Mullin, Bird, Nowitski, Rashard Lewis. None of these guys is more athletic than Babbitt. How were they successful?
He didn't average 21 ppg on 50% field goals as a sophmore and prove to be the best one-on-one shot creator among this year's forward draft class for nothing.
With better teammates around him drawing attention, he's going to have plenty of high % shot opportunities and will make people pay from outside, inside, mid-range, and off the dribble.