Look up at the new #1 pick in the mock
Ben McLemore, that's all I wanted to say
Also that website that we don't talk about only moved him up from 16 to 9, interesting. Either Aaron's very high on him or he jumped on the wagon before everyone else
That website we don't talk about still does top notch scouting and just did a video breackdown of Ben McLemore's game before moving him from 16 to 9. They use Synergy to back up their statistical claims and point out that glaring weakness's that B Mac needs to work on maybe you should of read that before declaring him the 1st pick after a hot shooting night.
Just watched that video, your right, I know he has some weaknesses, All I wanted to state is that he is now #1 on .Net. I'm not claiming him as the player I think should be #1
unaware of what this website that can't be spoken of is. I would really like to know actually.
Mr. 19134: Top notch scouting? You must be kidding! DX had Ben McLemore at 26 in their 2014 mock a month into the season. Around the time this site put him in the top 3.
Need evidence, read this thread!
They are a joke. No updates. Rakings that seem copied.
In my opinon you seem to be too high on Shabazz. Ben McLemore has much better all around skills. He even drives it better.
Not saying they are a better judge of talent but they def do their homework on prospects just looks at their prospect vids.
Did you know that 1/4 of B Mac's total points come from transition and that only 8% of his total points come from an isolation or PnR play? They are really bad stats for a SG.
And NO WAY IS B MAC a better all around player then B Mac now you just sound like a Kansas homer. Bazz is the most complete scorer in the country. B Mac scores from spot up 3's transition buckets, and back door cuts.
Well I'm glad that Cody Zeller isn't #1 anymore. I think Aran was the only one that still believed he was worry of the top pck.
(2 Chainz chant) B-MAAAACCCCCCC
I think Aran saw the game today
I don't believe Cody Zeller will be as good or better then Brook Lopez. Brook changed my mind, he is a lot better then I have ever suspected he would be, but even knowing how good he is now. I still wouldn't be able to take him first overall in a draft.
I'm sorry, I've never thought Cody Zeller was worthy of the number 1 pick. He doesn't seem very athletic, he doesn't ever have a dominant game, he's a great fundamental player but he's not number 1 pick worthy. Also the Lamarcus Aldridge comparison is weak. He reminds me of a smaller Roy Hibbert, the way he plays.
Who's going to be the better pro Beal or McLemore ? I'm asking this because they both kind of play similar to each other
I gotta say B-Mac because he doesn't have just a pretty stroke, he has a pretty shooting numbers also
Beal is a good player. However, McLemore has the potential of being an elite great player.
That's a good question, but I'm gonna have to go with Beal.
Beal and B Mac played on the same team in high school and not only was Beal always considered the better prospect, but Beal is also a year younger.
Beal also has better size as they are both a shade under 6'5", but Beal has a longer wingspan and a much stronger body and build. Beal also has a better overall game being able to effectively score with the ball in his hands one on one and proven to be a strong defender.
I will say that B Mac has become a better shooter then Beal, we'll wait to see if that translates to the league, which I think it will, I feel like Beal just has more moves.
If you think these guys are the same size you need to get your eyes checked. BMAC has at least an inch on Beal and a longer wingspan.
Beal is going to be good, he's hitting game winning shots regularly now.
But I'll take BMAC anyday of the week!!! I think he goes 1.
McLemore, by a pretty good margin. The difference in athleticism alone is enough for Ben's potential to be higher.
Mr. 19134 just trolling up and down these boards bashing B-Mac every time he's even mentioned. We get it, you like Shabazz better. People are entitled to their own opinions. Can we just agree that they're both great prospects in the upcoming draft?
Please don't say I'm trolling that's a word reserved for idiots who either have no idea what they're talking about, or are just losers who post stuff online to get a reaction from people. I don't fit either of those categories.
And I'm not really bashing B Mac I was a big supporter of his up until he started getting consideration for the 1st overall pick. And I do agree they're both prospects, but one is better and I am simply giving you the reasons why Bazz is a better prospect which is what we usually do on here.
Plus after learning about B Mac's age and his past legal and academic troubles, and his underwhelming measurements, I find it quite amazing actually that he's getting so much attention for the 1st pick with all these flags.
And as I stated earlier on a thread I just wanted to curb the enthusiasm that was sure to follow after his huge game today. And boy was I right, not only have a few threads been created declaring him the best SG prospect since Harden (despite not being able to dribble or pass) but Aran himself has now moved him to the 1st pick on this sites mock.
NOW TALK ABOUT OVERHYPING A GUY BASED ON ONE BRILLIANT GAME.
Wait a minute. Wasn't Beal the #2 pick before that game??? Seems like you are trolling.
Wait a minute, you're gonna call somebody a troll when you just attempted to answer a post with a question while you in the process offered no great insight as to why B Mac should be the number one pick or he shouldn't.
I gave legitimate reasons that educated basketball fans can critique as to why I feel like B Mac won't be the first pick, because he won't.
What are your reasons for why you think he should go first?
And you can call me a troll all you want but I will put my basketball knowledge against your's in a educated and articulated debate about whatever you feel like debating.
And what are you talking about Beal being the number 2 pick????? I suppose you meant really meant to ask is B Mac was the 2nd pick before that game, am I right? And your answer is no he was the 3rd pick behind Zeller and Noels.
But I have said all along it was a mistake to have B Mac over Bazz who is currently doing exactly what he promised he was going to do and is restoring UCLA to their glory days. That is the type of talent and personality a team wants with the first pick. Not somebody who had to sit a whole year because he can't even pass a math and reading test.
Yes was referring BMAC not Beal, my fault. You are wrong though. McLemore was rated #2 last week, Noel was 4 and Shabazz was 3. I hear your points on what makes Shabazz better than BMAC but I repectfully disagree. You are not a troll. But you seem to be trolling with the way you took over a thread about BMAC dicrediting him and hyping up Shabazz, and responding to nearly every single comment. Shabazz is a talent, but outside of scoring, what does he bring to a team? The BMAC mesurements you refer to are not official by any means. Beal was 6'3.25 barefoot, with a 6'8 wingspan, 8'4 standing reach. All small for a shooting guard in the NBA. Watch when McLemore's NBA measurements come out, he'll be an inch taller and have as big or a bigger wingspan and standing reach will be 2-3 inches greater. He is bigger. And he has a better jumpshot. The shooting numbers don't lie. If Beal can go 3 in a better draft, McLemore should go the same or higher. The last point you made about BMac is ridiculous and ignorant. He had academic problems related to his transcript. If you have ever spoken to him you would know he's no idiot. You are making statements based on assumptions.
Well @ThatDude what the heck else was I suppose to be doing tonight because my Sixers are just playing pathetic as of late I can hardly watch them anhmore, theyre offense is boring and the Raptors were clowning them tonight.
No but seriously I guess ur right I was responding to an unusual amount of post it was just one of them nights. Funny thing is im a big B Mac fan I love his combination of speed and shooting, but I also liked Rodney Carney for the same reasons.
And I believe B Mac and Bazz are tied together from this point on, any argument against why Mac shouldnt go first will and should involve Bazz.
Every year a topic will get me to "troll" as u say. Last year when people were saying Drummond should go first early in the year I countered everything with the Unibrow.
Apologies to ThaKing I thought you meant you put him number one on your mock, I didn't realize Aran put him #1 on his sites mock.
I think Aran runs the best draft site on the internet and is often ahead of the curve, but at times he can get carried away with a player, I.E. Arnett Moultrie going top 5 last year.
I respect Aran and his opinion but I think putting B Mac at #1 is a bit too far, because for one he's not even the best SG prospect in this draft let alone the best overall prospect.
B Mac will be 21 come draft time because he couldn't get himself acedemically eligible last year, and he was forced to switch high schools after his original was shut down by the state of Mizz. In fact at one point B Mac was even arrested because a bench warrent was put on him after he failed to show up to court for minor acohol possession. These aren't the biggest deals, but they are certainly red flags for a franchise thinking of making him the face.
B Mac is a little taller then 6'4" in sneakers, 185 lbs, with an underwhelming 6'7" wingspan. I'm not the biggest stickler for height and hate saying a guy is undersized, but when combined with a persons weight and wingspan, B Mac certainly doesn't have idealistic dimensions for a SG. He has trouble getting all the way to the rim due to a lack of ball handling, and finishing once he's there because of a lack of upper body strength and short wingspan. These problems are only going to get worse in the pros.
But the biggest reason why B Mac won't go 1 is because quite simply Bazz is a better player right now and for the future, and Goodwin is a better overall prospect.
Bazz is averaging nearly 20ppg and is averaging over 22 ppg over UCLA's recent 7 game win streak. I expect Bazz to continue to heat up and get in even better in game shape and really start to take over college basketball. Bazz is just warming up and he's starting to give me that feeling I had when Melo was playing for Cuse. I think UCLA is going to go on a run, and be one of the best teams in the nation come tourney time lead by Bazz. They're going to be able to beat any team in the nation and it should propel Bazz to become a top Player Of The Year Candidate.
Bazz is legit 6'7", 229 lbs, got a 6'11" wingspan, and is strong in both the lower and upper body, and plays with an aggressiveness an edge that B Mac doesn't. Bazz has also already proven to have that clutch gene and wants the ball down the stretch. He has no history of off court trouble, and is a person with an extremely high character, and is one of the hardest workers in the country, these are all traits a team is going to want for the 1st overall pick. Bazz is also clearly not phased by the lights or attention and actually embraces it. He started the season slow but not bad, and has since heated up. It won't be long before Bazz locks up the number one pick and people start talking about him as a National Player of the Year.
Archie Goodwin is only 18 years old and won't turn 19 until August, meaning he will still be 18 come draft time. He shares a similar build to B Mac both being a shade over 6'4" in shoes, except that Goodwin sports a massive 6'11" wingspan which he combines with tight handles to become nearly unguardable one on one with the ball in his hands at the college level. Goodwin has a better all around game then B Mac being able to effectively play both guards spots although he's best when used as a scorer, it can't be ignored that he averages 4 apg and averaged over 5 apg when he was playing PG with Harrow out. Yes Goodwin does make some bad descicions with the ball, but he still is a good passer and ball handler, and has a very nice looking shot. He's shooting 40% from 3 and 47% overall because he's good at picking his spots, has a nice high release point, and nearly impossible to stop from getting to the rim. Goodwin is putting up similar numbers to B Mac but it's his youth and potential that make me say he is a better prospect then B Mac. Dude will still be 18 come draft time, and got a sick handle, nice looking stroke, and a 6'11' wingspan, which all adds up to a dynamic SG prospect.
At the end of the day I just wouldn't draft a SG first overall who isn't a good one on one scorer, doesn't possess elite tools at his position, and has no idea how to run a PnR yet.
Good thing he didn't update the Mock after the Temple game...
I think Ben has very good dimensions for a SG. He is 6'5 with a 6'7 wingspand, his length isn't elite like Vince Carter or Bass, but still not bad and still two inches longer then his height. Bass is not 6'7. He slightly under 6'6. I think Ben measurements could almost be identical to Ray Allen's.
Bazz is the same height in socks that Ben is in sneakers. But it's Bazz 6'11" wingspan and 8'8" standing reach which is truly impressive which will enable him to easily play SF at the next level if need be.
So many things I disagree with in this post.
1. Ben is 19 and was only academically ineligible because his high school didn't have him taking the basic courses he needed to take until his junior year. Then he transferred to Oak Hill for his SR Year.
2. Shabazz Muhammad is only 6'5 in shoes..He's nowhere near 6'7..He may be 229 pounds though which is too much for a 6'5 2 guard.
3. His handle has improved during the game he showed an improved handle and brought the ball up and even flashed a crossover. He got into the paint pretty easily tonight.
4. And there are no character issues with B-Mac..Bill Self has gone on record plenty of times and said he's the best kid character wise that he's ever coached.
is there any sources on ben's age? I dont know how much of a big deal it is, but i just did a google search and espn, wiki and this site all say he is 20 going on 21 here in a month. I dont see any sites suggesting otherwise.
I'm not sure..He could be 20. But I'd be surprised considering he wasn't one of those big star recruits at a young age. He blew up relatively late compared to his peers.
1.Ben McLemore was born in Feb 11th 1992 please tell me where you get 19 from that?
2.And Shabazz is only 6'4.5" in socks. Players usually are given an inch to 2 inches depending on their wingspan and standing reach in shoes because they're height value is depended on their wingspan and standing reach too. It's safe to say that Bazz is 6'6" in sneakers. That's an inch away from 6'7", so that's pretty near. And his weight won't be an issue when he's abusing smaller guards down low.
3. And you're talking about drafting a SG number one overall who, "flashed a crossover" ? Really, like he's had a whole year to add that to his game and he can still only, "flash" one.
4.And Bill Self has had to go on record numerous times because he's been asked numerous times about B Mac's character considering it was questionable heading to Kansas.
1. The other site lists him as an 19 year old.
2. Bazz is 6'5 in shoes..he's nowhere near 6'7.
3. His handle has been questioned all year..He's been working on it and got by ISU defenders pretty easily with his crossovers. Has Shabazz show anything close to being able to create off the bounce yet? But this is the guy you're parading around as if he's the 2nd coming of Kobe Bryant.
4. His reputation has never been questionable..He's always been considered a good kid. If his reputation is questionable then you can make an argument for Shabazz's being questionable considering his recruitment is considered the dirtiest recruitment in the past 10 years by College Coaches.
What about poythress being moved out of the 2013 mock and in to the 2014 mock.
Seems a little too quick of a reaction to me. He will still be a lottery pick at the end of this year.
I agree, I dunno if Aran has insider information about Alex but I can't see him staying with Kentucky's incoming freshman class.
Also when is Isaiah Austin going to get love? He's 7'1, a mobile athlete, and is averaging 15ppg and 8.5 rpg in under 30 mpg for Baylor which is a great numbers for a freshman big. I think he needs to start getting more attention as a top 5 pick because guys with that size, skill level, and mobility are extremely rare. People use to say he was too thin but he's added considerable weight to his frame and it hasn't affected guys like John Henson who just put together a few monster games for the Bucks.
We don't have any legit measurements on him yet. My eye test is he is 6'5.25 in shoes with a 6'9 wingspand. We're low balling his dimensions here.
Yes we do he was measured at the 2010 Lebron James Skills Academy and was already 18 years old at the time so while it is possible that he grew since then, I don't believe that is the case his measurements seem accurate.
I'm going to drop the measurements. However, I believe Ben is just as good likely a better defender then Bazz. He has very good defensive principals, instincts and quicker feet. His balling handling also looks more promising in my opinion then Bazz, who looks scared of anything right so far. Bazz is strong for a SG, but supposedly his game is more suited at the SF. Where he would be under size.
Both are outstanding players whose stock should continue to grow as the season progresses. According to Synergy they each grade out as excellent offensive players with Ben having a slight edge averaging 1.074 Points Per Possession which grades him out to the 90th percentile of offensive efficiency in college basketball, a number that will only climb higher after his outstanding performance today in which he not only scored a season high 33 but did it while amazingly only taking only 12 official shots. Shabazz is not far behind in offensve efficiency averaging 1.027 Points Per Possession which ranks him in the 85th percentile. Defensively there is more of a gap between the two according to Synergy. While Shabazz holds his opponents to 0.857 Points Per Possession, a respectable number that Synergy has graded out as "average" ranking in the 42nd percentile defensively, McLemore allows a mere 0.621 PPP earning him an "excellent" ranking in the 85th percentile defensively. In posessions where McLemore is the primary defender, his opponent is held to an outstanding 25.9% shooting. A player who posseses good size for the position, ranks in the 90th percentile offensively and 85th percentile defensively and is extremely efficient from the field, 3 point range and the FT line is the prototype player that NBA teams search for in the high lottery come draft time.
Just being honest, I always get confused with stats. So, usually I only go by whatever I see. Then I'll try to make sense out of the numbers if I need to.
Finally some actual stats to back up the eye test.
But please let's not eschew the stats to serve our argument purposes. Like for instance, Synergy breaks down where and how the players get their points too. I've already read that 1/4 of Ben's offense comes off transition and only 8% of his offense comes from isolation or PnR's which is an extremely low number for a SG.
B Mac might have the edge on overall defensive stats mainly due to the fact Whithey can erase any penetration that does get by him.
B Mac also has trouble getting to the line, and finishing withing 8 feet of the rim if it isn't a dunk.
Plus above all else I do believe if you put Bazz and Mac one on one that Bazz would bust that ....
But I appreciate that actual time you took to bring these numbers to the table.
gerald green-esque hops
For everybody who thinks I'm too high on Bazz I would like to point out that he was the number one ranked incoming freshman, the MVP of the McDonalds All Star game, and unlike Barnes and other recent highly touted freshman, he is actually living up to the hype, and dare I say will exceed by the end of the season so I really don't think I;m too high on him. He's just fulfilling expectations.
Everybody else has had Bazz #1 all year and continue too so I don't know why people think I sound crazy for saying he's the number #1 pick. I really think Aran is just trying to be different here because I don't think there's even much doubt. Like how people wanted to argue with me last year saying Davis shouldn't go number one overall, I think by the time the draft rolls around there won't be any question as to who the first pick is in this draft. Bazz is the only player in the country right now who looks like they are capably of having an offense built around them. B Mac needs to learn how to dribble a little better before you could even think about running an offense through or around him.
If Ben isn't a player who looks like he could have an offense ran around him then I don't see how you could say that Shabazz could. They're actually scoring in a similar fashion. Spots ups, curls, transition, with Shabazz having a few more quick posts and garbage buckets and Ben having more floppy action (singles and doubles) run for him. Neither are being ball-dominant and are scoring off of quick touches. Shabazz is showing hardly any playmaking ability, while Ben is showing some.
This is true but Bazz has proven to be a dominat scorer on every level and ever team and in every league hes played in. His workout vids are serious and while I think B Mac scores like that cuz he has too, I feel like Bazz scores like that cuz its better for the team.
Bazz has never had trouble creating his own offense and just because he dont have too doesnt mean he cant do it. Expect Bazz to get more ball dominant in conference play when his teammates look to him to step up and take over which he has been doimg lately.
McLemore is having a great season. Amazing player. Bazz has really stepped up his game. Another player who has played well of late is Isaish Austin out of Baylor he's made some amazing shots for a 7'1 guy. With all that being said I still believe the No. 1 pick is Nerlens Noel. A 6'10 long athletic shot blocker who brings energy as well. He's a defensive leader out there.
Some people are being too hard on McLemore's handles/driving ability. He hasn't shown much of that this year, but he also hasn't shown he's incapable of it. Self's system is highly controlled/disciplined, wings very rarely are given the opportunity to put the ball on the floor and initiate anything, and McLemore has been trying to find his role on the team. But I thought he looked really comfortable creating for himself last night. The halfcourt offense was stagnant so he just decided to take over. Several impressive, confident drives to the basket, a nice midrange pull-up jumper, a couple of 25 ft bombs off the dribble, etc. He doesn't look nearly as shaky with the ball as some people are suggesting, plus he moves great without the ball, has a gorgeous stroke (and great elevation), and elite level athleticism. It'll be interesting to see how his season goes from here and whether he builds off this game or retreats back to the sort of opportunistic offensive role he's been in most of the year.
Mclemore is A BEAST, number one pick no doubt