LeBron made the best statement he could have made, by saying rings shouldn't define a persons career. He also went to say if that was the case he can say Bill Russell over Jordan or Robert Horry over Kobe.
Yep, i agree, people just take the ring thing to far, rings they should have a say so in your legacy, but it shouldn't be the whole cream of the crop as most people try to make it seem.
I can't remember who it was, but it was someone at hoopsworld who was tweeting about how Jordan is choosing Kobe over LeBron, but Jordan is obviously not the best at evaluating talents.... See Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison.
Two great players disagreeing. Here is why...
The notion that a player is measured by how many rings he accquires is pretty foolish. The greats win rings, yes I understand that and take nothing away from it. But to state that a player is only as great as how many rings he gets is just rediculous. What if D.Rose never wins a ring? Remember Allen Iverson? Does that make them any less of a player? What about Melo? The guy litterally has had either Kobe or LeBron putting him out of the playoffs. I just think people need to stop measuring players by rings and measure them after their career finishes.
Comparing LeBron to Kobe in their primes Is okay by me. But talking about which one has had the better career makes no sense. Kobe's is coming to a close and LeBron's is just getting roughly started. Jordan should just let the players play. He will always be the best player to ever play the game if you've ever seen him. But I only saw footage, I only know LeBron, and from the records he has the chance to break, as well as the rings he might be able to collect he will be unquestioned a future first ballot hall of famer.
If Lebron retired today he'd be a first ballot HOF
Sam Jones is the second best player of all time. Ten is better than six.
Michael Jordan logic
The GOAT is not an argument that can be simplified to one element, whether that be rings, wins, stat averages, career stats, etc. It is a conglomeration of many things. Focusing too much on one element is unhelpful.
MJ is the GOAT for many reasons. His rings are part of his legacy. So is his career record ppg average, his all-star appearances, his MVPs, his ridiculous playoff records, etc. When you consider those factors you cannot help but think he is probably the GOAT based on the numbers alone. Then, he solidifies it when you consider that he became unstoppable as a player. When MJ wanted to win, he won. That was a disheartening reality as a Jazz fan in the late 90s. If MJ had avoided baseball and played 3-4 more years, I believe he would have passed Russel for rings and Kareem for points. He was so good that he didn't even need a full career to be the GOAT. That's amazing.
And I must say, I saw a little of that fire in LBJ in the 2012 playoffs. He's certainly not MJ, but he may become the next best thing. Time will tell.
It is funny how even though some people learn to read when other for some reasons can't. People have no idea how to read things in context. MJ had to choose between Lebron or Kobe. They both are talented and versatile in their own rights. MJ felt the deciding factor between two great players was rings. Kobe has 5 and Lebron has 1.
This was never an argument purely on rings with everybody being involved. It was about 2 great players who at their best put up crazy number and deciding who was better.
Am I the only one that got that?
you are right the context of the statements....absolutely, but still...rings is not a tiebreaker, if so then the statements are NOT in a clear context.
If thats your tiebreaker, then who had the better players on their team? thats a tiebreaker. who had the better coaches?? thats a tiebreaker as well. Jordan still uses the rings as the top argument when all else fails. Lebron stated just as I have always stated....its team, timing, and circumstance.
What Jordan says really makes no sense if you think about it. He said he would CHOOSE Kobe over Lebron. In what context is the word "choose"? Does he mean who he would draft? Who he would choose to be on his team? First of all, MJ dont know how to draft. Second of all, he and Kobe couldnt co-exist on the same team. So what is he choosing?
My point is this, if rings are his tiebreaker, then his stance is obvious that he would choose Lebron if he were the one with 5 rings. So once again, it goes beyond their talents and what they bring to their teams if rings become the deciding factor. (So he really is going purely on rings.)
Many variables then come in to play. Such as what if the Lakers didnt have Shaq or Phil? What if the Cavs drafted Al Jefferson or Josh Smith instead of Luke Jackson? Or what if the Cavs moved up 4 spots in the draft to get Rondo? (...but thats another argument)
the point is, there really is no tiebreaker when talking about greats that are so close together...and thats what Lebron was trying to say. Jordan also implied that if Lebron gets more than that, thats who he would choose, because in his mind, rings trump everything else.
@sheltwon3; THANK YOU! I was just about to post a big rant about it, but you've hit the nail on the head. It's obvious that as far as individual achievements are concerned Lebron and Kobe are more or less on par, and Jordan used rings as the tie-breaker, not the sole factor.
Plus, we've yet to see how Lebron will cope once he starts to lose his legs, being able to adapt and change as you get older is just as important as how good you are in your prime as far as the greatest of all time discussion goes.
Thank you Sheltown3, i don't people read it well let me put it like these
According to MJ’s logic, at this point in their respective careers, Bryant’s five NBA championships trump anything that James has done he currently views Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant as having the more successful career to this point than Miami Heat forward LeBron James: ‘If you had to pick between the two, that would be a tough choice,’ Jordan, now owner of the Charlotte Bobcats, told program host Ahmad Rashard, ‘but five beats one every time I look at it.’ Bryant has won five championships with the Lakers, with James winning his first NBA title last June. ‘And not that he won’t get five,’ Jordan said of James. ‘He may get more than that, but five is bigger than one.’
Stop Hating xDxD
It was a silly thing for Jordan to say. If the comments were sincere and not just a way of quelling the growing debate about Jordan vs. LeBron, then they speak to his lousiness as a GM and talent-evaluator. Kobe was never remotely close to the level LeBron's been at for the last 6 or so years. This shouldn't be a debate. LeBron is a vastly better player than Kobe ever was, and he absolutely belongs in the discussion with Jordan and Wilt as GOAT.
This one of the things that the whole Skip Bayless media era has just blown out of proportion. Everything Lebron said was exactly right. The only reason Kobe has 4 more titles than LBJ, is because he played with Shaq for 3 of them and LBJ is about 7 years younger than Kobe. I think LBJ will have no problem winning at least 3 more titles throughout his career, and I think he is absolutely in the discussion for the 2nd best player of all time right now. His skill set is amazing, he does things Kobe has never done from more of a complete game perspective, even if Kobe was a better scorer than he is.
I'm as big of an MJ fan as you will fine, but the fact he essentially won 6 straight titles is ridiculous. He pulled out every close game imaginable, and was the greatest of all time. If LBJ plays for 12 more years, and wins, say, 4 more titles, that is great career, and surely worthy of being at least No.2. And with the way he is playing now, theres no reason to believe he won't do that.
I also think its great for LBJ's individual "legacy" that Wade really has fallen off from top 3 player to 2nd tier star. He still has some huge games in him, but night to night, he's not the same guy. And Miami's mantra isn't really "stacked team with the 2 best players in the league" like some thought it might be originally. Its now a nice team, with a lot of good defensive guys, great 2nd banana in Wade, good 3rd guy in Bosh, but its Lebron's incredible play that makes them who they are.