The Timberwolves Have constantly gone need over best player available. It has not worked, and does not appear to be working towards their future success
No they haven't.
As far as the person who laughed off Kanter going ahead of Biyombo, I would love to see those two battle. In my mind, Kanter would completely own him
Also, my last point is, calling Biyombo "Biyo" is kind of like calling Patrick Ewing "P Ew". Might want to think that one over before using it as a nickname staple.
BK Knicksfan is that seriously going to be your arguing points... No they havent, wrong again, and really...
Kanter and Biyambo should be matched up in group workouts. I think both will have to prove themselves as Biyambo is relatively unscouted and Kanter has ben out of action for so long. Kanter will completely dominate him...See this is a proven prospect, who has dominated top ranked prospects time and time again. Biyambo had a nice statline and good energy in a loss.
Truth is, I wrote a long paragraph out, but the page reset lol. I can explain deeper if you want.
I've seen Kanter play before he was even hyped in the US. He's a low post guy with a nice mid range jumper. He's a banger inside. Yes, he could in theory push him down low, but Biyombo has the size and speed inside to contest him at the basket. Biyombo could defend him. Kanter would get the matchup, but not in a dominant fashion.
As for the Biyo-P.Ew comment. Come on dude, NOONE else had a problem with it. If they did, noone said anything. To even comment on that is lame.
As for the Minnesota drafting BPA, the 2009 draft is HUGE. I wrote alot, I don't really feel like writing it again, because it's a LONG post. Put it like this: You have to really REMEMBER that draft to see how Flynn was a BPA pick.
If both Kanter and Biyombo played in a game. I think the statlines would be
Kanter: 22 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks, 4 fouls
Biyombo: 13 points, 12 rebounds, 4 blocks, 6 fouls
Biyombo will get more rebounds, Kanter would get more points. I think Biyombo would get more blocks on Kanter's little shots in the hole, but Kanter would eventually foul Biyombo out once he goes to low post auto pilot mode.
It's actually B*tchsmack A-Bimbo.
But seriously, the T-Wolves can't draft. The year they drafted 4 point guards, they traded their best one (Ty Lawson). They also traded Nick Calathes who's European team is doing better than Ricky Rubio's team.
I think the problem the T Wolves will have is that Rubio and Love doesn't sound like a winning combination. Rubio doesn't have a great first step or a great shot. Doesn't sound like a great halfcourt player. Kevin Love is a half court player who needs a point guard who can spread the floor. Not sure this is gonna work. BUT, either way they HAVE to get a defensive minded shot-blocker and rebounder at the five. So Biyombo would be good. If they could get DeAndre Jordan that would be great too.
I like Kevin Love, but he might just be a second option guy on a contender and not a first option guy. So they need to get the best players they can get and tell Kevin Love to work within the system.
If the T-Wolves get the first pick they should draft Kyrie Irving and trade Rubio (sign and trade for DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe).
Love, Irving, Jordan, Bledsoe, Beasely, Randolph is a great core.
If they draft Derrick Williams then I think keeping Rubio might make more sense. D-Will can be the second go to guy and he can get up and down the floor. Then I think they should trade Beasely for cash and draft picks. Then go after DeAndre Jordan. A front line of Love, Williams, Jordan, Darko, and Randolph is pretty awesome. Young, talented and versatile. If they couldn't sign Jordan then they should figure out a way to get Bismack in the Beasley trade. Then in the back court you have Rubio and Wes Johnson. Plus whatever young guys they could get. Maybe David Lighty (decent size, hits 3 pointers).
In fact, we can look back at this past year as well
16th pick was Babbit after drafting Johnson
18th pick in 2009 was Lawson after drafting two point guards in the top 10
3rd pick in 2008, needed a point guard....went O.J. Mayo
So.....those are need picks though right?
No comparison. Kanter is a smarter player, and he is a better rebounder as well. Jared Sullinger was way more beastly than anyone on the US team this year, and Kanter more than held his own. I would love to see Biyombo play as well against Sullinger as Kanter did. But, regardless of it being just one game, saying that Biyombo is a better prospect than Kanter just seems completely out of line to me. Kanter is ready to go, even if Biyombo does somehow reach this potential people on this board have given him, he will more than likely never reach Kanter. Need we forget that Kanter was KILLING people on the U-16 and U-18 circuit. He would have been a major contributor in Euroleague, along the lines of the other players who are being considered lottery picks. Remember, that while Biyombo MAY (key word), be younger than Valanciunas, Motiejunas and Vesely (you could even add Mirotic possibly), all of them are contributing on better teams and against Euroleague or Eurocup competition is well. That means they have played more games against better players. They may not have 7'7 wingspans, but they are all more ready to contribute than Biyombo.
Need we forget that guys like Olumide Oyedji (19 and 13) and Mohammed Sene (15 points, 9 blocks), had huge games in the Hoop Summit, and neither had big NBA careers. I had a person who many respect actually tell me that Biyombo was reminiscent of the former. Biyombo has amazing attributes, but so would nearly everyone he would be playing against in the NBA. Much more so than those he plays against now. Kanter is MUCH more ready, and would have shown that had he been able to play this year. Even with concerns over conditioning, Kanter should be good to go.
Plus, what was outlined as the Wolves "not" taking need, WAS them taking MORE than they need. They did trade Lawson and Babbitt, not to mention Mayo, but they have been drafting for need. Tell me a case where they drafted the best player available? The Mayo for Love trade did work out (McHale did that one, if you recall, not Kahn), but after that, he went crazy over drafting players to compete at a need position. Minnesota has just become worse due to that, and they would not at all be helped by getting Biyombo. He would let defenses focus even further on Love and more than likely have him shooting a lower percentage.
Also, I would love to see how Biyombo scores against really big dudes. As I have said, he did fine against a line with no big guys, but I think if he had to face legitimate size, his chances would be slim to none he scores double digits on a consistent basis. Yes, he is averaging nice numbers as a role player in a nice league, but his scoring 6.4 in the ACB leads to him scoring what exactly against NBA comp? As far as Durp, I mean Thorpe, saying Kyrie Irving might not have big numbers in the ACB, I think it is much easier for a guard to come over and contribute in the NBA from playing European ball than a big guy. Especially if the guard has the ability to penetrate, which is much more difficult to do in a situation where big guys can stand in the paint for as long as they want. Biyombo is a MAJOR project, and I can not recall a top 5 or top 10 pick with as long to go as Biyombo does in the last few drafts. Basing everything off of a game and highlights (which is what I believe many here are doing), is a dangerous thing to do.
When you say contribute, your talking about offense though. That's the problem. At 6-9, Biyo could be a center, but probably fits more at the power forward spot. Because some guys don't score, they get deemed bust, or traded before they should. From what I seen of Kanter, he is the better prospect. I've been saying for a while Kanter was the best euro prospect. I said it during the 2009 draft when I found out about him, I say it now, Kanter is going to be a good NBA player. Even if Biyo is the same age, he's someone who could be a lotto talent because 6 points and 5 rebounds in 17mpg is still alright. Compared to many euro talents, that's actully respectable. In fact, imagine if he went to a school like Duke, or a school like Memphis. He'd be a legit defensive talent in college who gets fast break dunks.
Yes, he had a big game at the Hoop Summit, but on defense, it was no contest. From the highlights I've seen, he had the best defensive matchup. Also, let's not act as if Biyombo can't develop and gain bigger in size. He's rumored to be 6-9, 240lbs. Being a younger player, he could eventually get to 6-10, 250-255lb and be a solid post defender, while not losing much of his speed.
That wasn't them taking need. Wes Johnson was a SF, but they played him at SG all season. Babbit was BPA at the time, Lawson and Rubio was BPA (Flynn was as well, but that's another thing) and Mayo was BPA at the time. Johnson wasn't a need at all. With needs in the mid first each year, why take at the same position unless your going BPA. It makes more sense it was BPA because they dealt them just as fast as they picked them. Name the last time you saw a team trade a needed pick?
Biyombo is a project, but he has the potential, as well as the defensive motor, to actually play and contribute.
Ben Wallace/Emeka Okafor. In this draft, Just getting a guy who can start for 10 years will be a victory IMO. Beside of Love, while they would lack height, they would make up for it with heart and aggression. If they can prove he is legitimately 18, I see no reason why it would be unbelievable for him to go number 1(reaslistically further down given lotto history and favorability to the top team, or lackthereof).Emeka while he got more media attentionwasn't really that much better coming in and he was questioned as top pick in a stronger draft.
It's not like Derrick Williams is going to produce wolrds better than Beasley and Randolph and sees himself as an NBA 3, and Kyrie Irving could perhaps end up no better than Flynn and would make Rubio see even less reason to come over. I've questioned them for weeks wondering who they'd take. My sleeper for them is actually Valanciunas, but with their love of Darko and the similiarities bewteen the 2, I'd could see them looking to simply add a player that best fits the system while bringing a type of game missing from the T-Pups, and choosing Biyambo.
If both Kanter and Biyombo played in a game. I think the statlines would be
Kanter: 22 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks, 4 fouls
Biyombo: 13 points, 12 rebounds, 4 blocks, 6 fouls
Only thing I agree with is the 6 fouls for Biymbo. He would ride the bench all game long in foul trouble. Biyambos blocks came from defending smaller weaker frontcourt players. Most of them were helpside blocks anyways. Go back to your first basketball team and whats the key to scoring on a shotblocker, get into his body. Kanters post skills, backing him up and really working him physically would nuetralize not only Biyabo's energy, but his athletisism, and length. He would look like a fish out of water trying to contest every shot and falling right into Kanters trap, foul after foul after foul.
Although Ive also only seen Kanter play once as well, thats what I think would happen. I maybe wrong.
Definitely a possibility. While Kanter is IMO on of the few surefire things in this draft, he seems also too much like Kevin Love and. Darko. I'd still take Biyambo and let him work with NBA level bigman coaches
he seems also too much like Kevin Love and. Darko.
Bruising pf/c who likes to play in the post and be physical while bringing in a ton of bounds. Lacks the lateral quickness or vertical explosiveness to be much help on the weakside D much like Love. Has good passing skills similar to Darko and Love. Gets by on size, heart and physicality similar to Kev. Kanter probably has a more overall physically imposing post game than either Love or Darko. Just seems like while he's the far superior player to Biyambo, I think Bismack brings a whole different element to the team with his explosiveness and strength around the rim and his defensive upside.
The kid is the first of 8 children to a royal family. His maturity and leadership will go a long way in his development whether it's from learning simple post skills with a bigman coach, or knowing he has to be the best he can at what he does, or his work ethic in keeping his body in top shape. Yes, he fouls at an incredible rate right now, but what 18 year old bigman doesn't. Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudamire still haven't figured it out. Those things will come from learning to from the best coaches and personal trainers, watching game film, and just getting out there and playing through the mistakes.
"Yes, he fouls at an incredible rate right now, but what 18 year old bigman doesn't. Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudamire still haven't figured it out."
I think the 33 minutes per game and 2.8 fouls per game Dwight Howard averaged as a rookie and the 31 minutes and 3.3 fouls Amare averaged as rookies coming out of high school would run counter to your point.
I take into account everything when warning the Timberwolves from thinking of taking Biyombo at any pick past 15. Even than, they could probably better assert themselves with a different player. This is a team that struggles on defense, but Biyombo would not necessarily solve all of their woes.
Darko was further along than Biyombo. He was, he is, and I would have the hardest time believing that Biyombo would swoop in and solve the Wolves woes in the post on defense. Playing Kevin Love and Michael Beasley together on defense will make any team rather poor defensively. They are better off drafting someone who can contribute an make them a better team than a long term project.
This guy lead the German league he was playing in rebounding at 18 years old. He was long, an athlete and had a ton of upside. Seattle gambled on him with a 2nd rounder, and he turned out to not necessarily be NBA material. Biyombo is doing less in a better league, and he may have been more of an athlete (again, may have), but how does this make him an NBA All-Star or someone worth spending a top 10 pick on? You want guaranteed results.
Also, to answer the earlier question about what team would trade need players, the answer is "The Timberwolves!". They traded some players they really could have used, and have made a lot of poor draft choices. How on earth would this not be another one? If they choose him in the later picks, where it is a crap shoot, than go nuts. But, in the top 10, it is just a bad idea to take a player this raw. Unless you really think this guy is Mutombo or Ben Wallace, maybe even Theo Ratliff (who was a solid late first round pick), than you go with someone who is more of a sure contributor.
I am taking everything into account when I advise people from ranking him to highly. He has a good motor, he is strong and fast, but so are most players at his position in the NBA. His length is great, but his speed and athleticism are both pretty average compared to his NBA counterparts. Not to mention, his skill set is WAY behind. If you are drafting him expecting him to be a star, their is little precedent for a player in similar situations becoming that. He could break the mold, but I would not bet on it.
Still doesn't change the fact that Amare most year has avg over 3.5 fls per game. And who's to say that Biyambo doesn't figure things out quickly. He does afterall sound like an extremely bright young man. 3 languages and 2 African Dyalects is pretty damn good. Put him with the right organization and he could produce. Not to mention Dwight and Amare were both primary bigs on their teams. Dwiht has also regressed with fouling as now he finds himself in the air more often than not. Besides, they were just a couple names off the top of my head. Fouls can be worked on. As a 22 year old rook the Dream avg 4.2 fls, Diesel 4.0 fls, Oden 3.9fls(21mts),Zo 3.7 fls all as much older rookies. You can learn to stay out of fould trouble and play sound fundamental D ( especially with his frame). Could potentially lockdown the paint and make up for Love's defensive shortcomings.
You guys are ignorant as &$#%#&@!. Seriously youre not getting it or is this a big joke. I swear this makes no sense at all be rational, listen to what people are saying.
David Thorpe is a freaking HACK. The ACB of Spain is NOT the "second best basketball league in the world". What a freaking IDIOT.
The Euroleague is FAR SUPERIOR to the weak ACB of Spain.
How the hell do these morons get these writing jobs?
Forget about how they get jobs, Im wondering who is paying them off to say Biyambo is worthy of the #1 overall pick. What a joke.
Number 1 pick????? who said that? who ever did they must be out of there mind
No thread about a random player in Europe is complete without European Baller! SWEET! While I agree that Euroleague is the best "league", it does after all comprise teams from leagues all over Europe. He more than likely was saying that the ACB was the second best actual league, without comprising of other leagues, in the nation. Again, that may not be true, as I am sure that European Baller would big-up his Greek league (For those who do not know the infamous European Baller, he claims constantly this site is racist towards Greek people mainly. He sometimes says all Europeans, but Greek's seem to be his focus).
Just so people know who may not, their are a number of leagues in European basketball.
Is comprised of 24 of the best teams in all of Europe. Each league is given a certain amount of teams and they all compete in a regular season, which eventually turns into a final 16. The Final 16 is broken into pool play, and eventually leads to a Final 8 Teams, which compete in a best of 5 series. The teams that win the best of 5's are the Final 4, which is single game elimination.
To qualify for Euroleague, your team I believe has to finish in a certain place in their particular leagues in whatever country they may play in. The teams in Euroleague are from Greece, Russia, Croatia, Lithuania, Turkey, Italy, Israel, Poland, Germany, Serbia, Belgium, France, Slovenia and Spain.
Is comprised of 32 teams that do not qualify for the Euroleague. It is considered the step below Euroleague due to it being the second tier of teams from the top leagues in Europe. Still, it is full of some former solid pro's and players, and Rudy Fernandez was once MVP of Eurocup while he was playing in Spain. The leading scorer over the 6 game regular season was former Bobcats bigman and relative NBA journeyman Primoz Brezec, at 30.17 ppg. Donatas Motiejunas plays for Benneton Treviso, which plays in the Euroleague.
This is the Spanish professional league, which consists of 18 teams.
OK, now that we have that out of the way, what usually happens is, a top team in either the Greek, Adriatic, Italian, Turkish, Israeli, Spanish or whatever league will usually play one game per week in league play. Than, if you are a part of Euroleague or Eurocup, you play in that once a week as well.
This usually means that is a player maxes out through both Euroleague/Eurocup and their league play, they play about 50 games MAX.
Biyombo, has played 14 games this year. Kyrie Irving played only 3 less, and if someone thinks Biyombo has more potential as an NBA player than Irving, lord save your soul. I just want people to realize what this all is and the point, though short and angry, that European Baller is making. This character apparently knows Euro basketball better than anyone, yet rather than educate, he just rants and calls people racist. I am trying to educate here, so people know how it goes on.
So, outside of the Euroleague and Eurocup, the ACB may indeed be the strongest league. Could be Greece, could be some other league, but I am guessing they do not technically count Euroleague and Eurocup as technically being "leagues", as they are comprised of what would basically be conferences. The ACB is basically the equivalent of the Big East by European standards, it is one of the strongest and deepest conferences out there. If you did indeed not count Euroleague as a league and more as a tournament, which it pretty much is, than ACB is a reasonable second best league out there. Still, it is well documented that if you are an average player in that league, their is no real guarantee at all that you will somehow be A OK in the NBA.