The Latest Take On Bismack Biyombo
Even with all the high draft picks and some free agent acquisitions, the Wolves have holes at every position except whatever spot Kevin Love plays. Though they still own Ricky Rubio's rights and sit on a very disappointing -- but talented -- Jonny Flynn, the Wolves clearly will have to consider taking Kyrie Irving, of course. But pairing up your best player with a complementary one makes sense, and if the Wolves decide to go that route, they'll have to consider Bismack Biyombo.
If you think he's too raw a talent to go No. 1, you're wrong. Think of it like this; he averages 6 and 5, with over 2 blocks a game while plaing in Spain's top division, which is the second best basketball league in the world after the NBA. And he does that while playing less than half the game. It's a league far more rugged than college. How would Kyrie Irving fare over there in 17 minutes?
Biyombo pairs up perfectly with Love, as his above-the-rim game and high intensity matches up with Love's solid positional defense and calm demeanor. BB would give the Wolves a constant threat in the paint to dunk anything he touched while allowing Love to float outside for his great jumper. And they would form one of the top rebounding tandems in the league. His energy alone would help Love and every other player on his team. Flynn, Wes Johnson and Love all want lots of touches and shots, and BB could excel just playing off all their misses. The two names he's always compared to are Ben Wallace and Kevin Garnett.
-David Thorpe, ESPN Insider
(In my best Kyle from South Park voice)
This again was an article all about drafting need over talent in a weaker draft. I think this is apparently why he is a trainer and not an NBA GM. He seems to be good at what he does, but his analysis seems to be, well, for lack of better word, CRAZY! Bismack Biyombo is an incredibly intriguing prospect, but I think Minnesota fans would rightfully start a military coup against David Kahn (and maybe even Thorpe for planting the idea) if he was indeed drafted #1. Yes, the ACB is tough, and yes Biyombo has a huge wingspan and is (apparently) 18, but I am sure BTPH will have a field day with this one (and very rightfully so). Just found this utterly shocking and fairly absurd.
Debate, discuss and fire away with amazing gifs that I do not have in my possesion, but wish I did to express my shock.
Garnett? I don't get that one, and I consider myself a big Bismack follower. He plays with emotion, sure but Garnett is a polished offensive player even coming into the league he was more offensively polished even then Bismack is now, and Bis is a grown man at 248 5% body fat Garnett is 190(exaggeration) 0% body fat. I like the Ben Wallace one, higher ceiling ofcourse, maybe what people thought Emeka was going to be.
Youve gotta be &$#%#&@! kidding me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmndi2b-G5s&feature=player_detailpage#t=100s who does that remind u of lol
robert youve got to be &$#%#&@! kidding me too. Higher cieling then Ben Wallace? His defense won a championship, and multiple Eastern Conf Championships. He was the best defensive player in his day, made Howards defensive efforts look like childsplay. You guys are taking this way to far, jesus christ im starting to get scared. I hope the Raps dont select this guy, sounds like something Emery would do.
You have really high expectations for him as well, huh? Emeka Okafor even had more of a semblance of an offensive game than Bismack though. I do not know, I see the Ben Wallace comparisons, but that is meaning he will block shots and grab boards. Heck if I know if he will do it at the rate of Ben Wallace. His ACB numbers are solid, especially if he is indeed 18, but do people really see him being a defensive anchor?
I see a role player, who will need A LOT of training before even being in the same league as Okafor or Wallace. Their is a reason he only plays 17 mpg, which BTPH has outlined well, he fouls too often and he makes a lot of mistakes. Not to mention, that while the ACB is the second best league in the world, and he is doing fairly well, will that necessarily means he will translate to the best league in the world better than more seasoned players?
The Garnett comparisons are just crazy talk, as Kevin Garnett was in a different world than Biyombo in every category. If you idealize Biyombo as being Mutombo, you possibly make statements like Thorpe just made. But, he is incredibly raw and I just do not like those odds of him being a better player than a number of others left on the board. Unless he has some inside look at Biyombo that a number of people are missing, this seems like a BAD idea. My guess, is he maybe watched some highlights, saw the Hoop Summit, and listened to a bunch of scouts rave about his length and potential. Than, he wrote an article about how the Timberwolves should take him with the first pick, and still maintains a writing position for ESPN. Oy vey.
^^ I would say Serge, with super long arms. He only took one jump shot, all dunks.
Obviously I meant offensively Ben Wallace was a great defensive player, with almost no offense. He never had the potential to be a 20 pt 10 reb guy, I see no reason why Bis can't be.
I dont get the Garnett comparisons AT ALL...Besides being a great athlete KG was very skilled in just about every phase of the game..This Kid is also a great athlete but he lacks fundermentals and gets by on his explosive athletic skills...In the NBA there are tons of great athletes..Hell!! Gerald Green is a great athlete but he's not in the league...
Bismack wasnt even on Draft Radars until he went to the Nike Hoop Summit..Where his stock went up playing AGAINST HIGH SCHOOLERS!!
He has only a few years of basketball experience and he's still under contract with his Spanish team for another 2 years....He does have a nice feel for the game..And have very good defensive instincts...
Again Im not saying this is going to happen right away but he has the potential to be that type of player. Emeka had 3 years of college to improve his all around game.
Yeah, he plays half the game. I'm not that familar with him right now, but usually a defensive big that produces well in limited minutes like that is off the court due to fouls and stupid turnovers.
Now in the 20th post about Biyambo this one might actually be deserving b/c this article is complete ludacris!
You gotta be joking. If Biyambo would be taken 1st overall (im not sayin the wolves get 1 overall, but they are implying if they do they should consider him), Im gonna start believin all the 2012 conspiracies and start a business digging underground cellars or tombs for people. This is insane. Reminds me of Whiteside supposedly riding up the boards like so many reports had him. If he would go before Williams or Irving...someone deserves to be fired and Biyambo's agent/manager is a better marketer than Steve Jobs.
You see no reason why Bismack Biyambo can score 20-ppg in the NBA? Really, you think its that easy. Any big and strong person can just score 20-ppg in the NBA.
Im not trying to insult you or anything but Ill explain it for you. Skills and IQ have alot more to do with success in the NBA then hype and potential. Potentially Bismack Biyambo may learn how to shoot a jumpshot, maybe his feet become magically coordinated, and his hands become soft enought to catch the ball. Who knows maybe he learns a handful of killer faceup moves, and back to the basket post skills. Perhaps he learns a jumphook, and executes screens, picks, and reads defenses alot better. But as of right now he has none of that going for him in his offensive game, as a matter of fact as of right now he is below average...wait....well below average in all of those offensive traits.
Being such a horrible offensive player will limit his time on the floor, especially when you add in the fact that he is so turnover prone. On the defensive end he is energetic, vocal, and a great boost to his team. Although at the NBA level he will face athletes hes never gone up against before. Stronger, quicker, and smarter then those highschool players who were (sorry to burst everyones bubble) toying with the world team. That game was a spectacle to the USA players, somewhat of a celebration, it was a once in a lifetime oppurtunity to Bismack. I will say he proved that with further development and experience, maybe a couple years in Europe he proved he could play a good defensive role on a wnning team in the NBA. If he was extremely succsessful developing he could very well be the next Ben Wallace. Not Dwight Howard...
What does he say the other teams would do?
He's still under contract with his overseas team for 2 more years..So i dont know why a team will a team take in the top 10 and wait for him to come over...Unless he's another Blake Griffin and i dont see that in him....
^They could always buy out his contract and bring him over. I don't think he'll pull a Rubio and be difficult with negotiations because he was drafted by a team he doesn't want to play for.
but in a recent interview,he said he wants to be complete when he hits the nba floor....does that means he wants to remain there and stay to develope his game?
Thats a good point. I don't know, his current league is more competitive than the D-League, I guess that depends on his perception of his own game and what agents and scouts are telling him.
Rudeboy "He's still under contract with his overseas team for 2 more years..So i dont know why a team will a team take in the top 10 and wait for him to come over...Unless he's another Blake Griffin and i dont see that in him...."
This is not correct. Apparently, his club is in serious financial trouble and was unable to pay Biyombo's salary, so Biyombo's agent already filed the paper to terminate the contract. It's up to the ACB to approve that. Given his team hasn't even paid his salary or the employment insurance, the contract is almost VOIDed.
Biyombo would likely be a free agent real soon. He would certainly ditch Europe and play in the NBA as soon as he can. If there will be a lockout next season, then he may just stay in ACB for another year or so. He seems very determine to go to the NBA.
It's pretty crazy for Biyombo to go 1st overall mainly because Irving and Derrick Williams are two sure thing while Biyombo is a big gamble. He probably got the highest risks highest rewards (as good big man is extremely valuable).
I am a supporter of Biyombo and think he would be in the lottery (since this draft is so weak, I think there would be GM making gamble on him with a lottery pick), I have a hard time believing he would be a top 5 pick let along the #1 overall. Kahn must be insane to do that.
OhCanada, How do you know so much about him have you watched a lot of his games?
Do I think Biyombo is a #1 pick? Not really, but if he panned out, he'd be the perfect fit opposite Love and that's what Thorpe is saying. If Biyombo goes and has monster workouts and Jonny Flynn/Rubio is believed to be the point guard they think he can, I expect Minnesota to move elsewhere.
In fact, if your Minnesota, you win either way by getting the #1 or #2 pick. Realistically, the highest Biyo will go is 6 or 7, let's say Minnesota gets the 1st pick and a team like Charlotte, Sacramento or Detroit gets the 6th or 7th pick, they can move down and get more picks/players to help the team and still take Biyo without the " media backlash " in Minnesota.
OhCanada, How do you know so much about him have you watched a lot of his games?
I watched the Hoop Summit but thats all...Its called reading...and you can credit BTPH and well accounted for stats for my info. Seriously thou go find an article, an unbiased article on him on any website you can. Just do some researching man dont listen to the same old, he has an amazing wingspan, next Ben Wallace BS.
I've read the articles on espn about him only.
If the T-Wolves fall to 4 or 5 and Derrick Williams, Kyrie Irving, and Enes Kanter are gone, then they should take a look at Bismack.
If Rubio is in their plans then they need to start him at some point. I guess Mike Beasley is their starting 3 so why would you take one of those other forwards?
They will then have some talent for next year (if Rubio comes over), then they can draft another high lottery pick next year. Perhaps Harrison Barnes.
Love, Bismack, Darko, Beasley, Anthony Randolph, Welsey Johnson, Luke Ridnour, and Ricky Rubio is a nice group of players but I am not sure that ANY of those pieces fit.
The problem is that Rubio and Love don't seem like they will mix well. Rubio is an up-tempo guy who can't shoot. Love is a slow-down player who isn't great at defense. And neither are that fast. Not sure how you would build around that.
Maybe they should trade Rubio and get Brandon Knight and filler or something.
Love, Bismack, Darko, Beasley, Randolph, Wes Johnson, Ridnour, and Brandon Knight looks more like a cohesive unit.
If Love is the cornerstone, then you need a second scoring option, a point guard who can shoot outside and drive in halfcourt sets and another big man who can rebound, block shots, and defend. Bismack and Brandon Knight would be a great start. Beasely could be that second option, or they can find one next year.
They don't have a 1st round pick next year Madness.
Chad Ford said in 2006 that Patrick O'Bryant should be the first overall pick. Several years later, John Riek was projected by ESPN as a top-3 pick.
The hype-train's next stop: Bismack Biyombo.
Typed in "John Riek" and "lottery" into the google machine... ENJOY!
College coaches and NBA scouts who saw Riek play over the summer are no doubt counting down the days until he graduates.
His coming out party was earlier this summer at the LeBron James US Skills Academy, an invitational camp for the top high school players in the country in Akron. Riek, who has a 7-7 wingspan and size 18 shoes, rolled over the country's best big men and had NBA scouts, college coaches and national high school scouts drooling after the five-day event in early July.
"I measured everyone there by John Riek and he either won the head-to-head matchup or tied it," says national high school scout Dave Telep. " You can say John Riek is going to make money playing basketball. I saw LeBron pull him over during and game and whisper something to him and I remember thinking to myself, ‘There are two NBA players on the floor - LeBron and John Riek.'"
""The NBA scouts who saw him down there told me that he was, beside Roy Hibbert, the second best center prospect draftable," says Winchendon coach Mike Byrnes."
"John Riek the Next Thabeet?"
"Riek, who escaped the war-ravaged Sudan as a teenager, comes to Cincinnati after exploding onto the basketball scene last summer at the LeBron James Skills Academy where he was named the event's top underclassman by recruiting analysts. Following the camp, Riek spent the 2007-08 season at the Winchendon School, where his stock rose and he entered his name into the NBA Draft. Considered a potential lottery pick, Riek was named the No. 1 high school center in the country by Rivals.com and at one point was considered the top player available for the draft by Fox Sports' Jeff Goodman."
Saved the best for last (this is why no site archives this stuff) from Friday, December 28, 2007
1 Michael Beasley PF 6-9 235 18 Kansas State Top 5
A big-time talent who will go very high as long as he behaves himself at... more
2 Derrick Rose PG 6-4 195 19 Memphis Top 5
The best pure point guard in the draft draws some comparisons to Deron Williams. However,... more
3 Eric Gordon SG 6-5 205 19 Indiana Top 5
One of the most gifted prospects from the high school class of 2007. He can... more
4 O.J. Mayo SG 6-4 195 20 USC Top 5
Mayo is off to a solid start for USC, but scouts are still trying to... more
5 DeAndre Jordan C 7-0 240 19 Texas A&M Top 10
On talent, he's got the makings of a top-five pick. But scouts are concerned enough... more
6 Chase Budinger SG 6-7 190 19 Arizona Top 10
Budinger had a great freshman season at Arizona and has quickly asserted himself as the... more
7 Darrell Arthur PF 6-10 215 20 Kansas Top 10
Shocked just about everyone coming out of the gate and contributing to a very talented... more
8 Brook Lopez C 7-0 245 19 Stanford Lottery
Brook's stellar play toward the end of his freshman season turned a lot of NBA... more
9 John Riek C 7-2 230 18 Prep School Lottery
There is a lot of controversy over Riek, but the consensus from NBA scouts and... more
10 D.J. Augustin PG 5-11 180 20 Texas Lottery
Augustin was one of the two or three best freshmen point guards in the country... more
11 Ty Lawson PG 6-0 190 20 North Carolina Lottery
Lawson didn't put up the best numbers, but some scouts felt he had the most... more
12 Donte Greene SF 6-8 215 19 Syracuse Lottery
Versatile forward is off to a hot start for Syracuse. While he still needs to... more
13 Kosta Koufos C 7-1 250 18 Ohio State Lottery
His stock skyrocketed this summer after he dominated the 18-and-under European Championships. After a strong... more
14 Marreese Speights C 6-10 250 19 Florida Lottery
With Al Horford and Joakim Noah in the NBA, a lot is falling on Speight's... more
15 Nicolas Batum SF 6-8 210 19 France Lottery to mid first round
A few international scouts believe he's the best prospect outside the United States. His dominance... more
16 Kevin Love C 6-9 255 19 UCLA Lottery to mid first round
Love's game is old-school with a flair for the spectacular. He has enough talent to... more
17 DeVon Hardin C 6-11 235 21 California Lottery to mid first round
Hardin was great in draft workouts and is off to a solid senior season. However,... more
18 Roy Hibbert C 7-2 265 21 Georgetown Lottery to mid first round
He's been all over the boards with scouts over the past few years. They love... more
19 Danilo Gallinari SF 6-9 212 19 Italy Lottery to mid first round
Many in Italy feel he's a better long-term prospect than Andrea Bargnani. Right now his... more
20 J. J. Hickson PF 6-9 240 19 NC State Lottery to mid first round
A rising young player who, on paper, looks like a prospect. If he can dominate... more
21 Trent Plaisted C 6-11 245 21 BYU Mid to late first round
After a stellar freshman season and a so-so sophomore campaign, he's really come on as... more
22 Jerryd Bayless PG 6-3 190 19 Arizona Mid to late first round
Arizona is moving him to the point this season which means he'll have to share... more
23 Darren Collison PG 6-1 165 20 UCLA Mid to late first round
Scouts love his speed and his floor leadership. As the NBA turns more up-tempo, Collison's... more
24 Ante Tomic C 7-2 237 20 Croatia Mid to late first round
Tomic is big-time prospect. He has a rare combination of size, skill and athletic ability.... more
25 Chris Douglas-Roberts SG 6-6 195 20 Memphis Late first to early second
Douglas-Roberts is one of the more under-rated players in the country. He should really benefit... more
26 JaVale McGee C 7-0 237 19 Nevada Late first to early second
Scouts are starting to buzz on McGee. He's still a year or two away from... more
27 Hasheem Thabeet C 7-3 265 20 Connecticut Late first to early second
Thabeet was pegged early as a potential late lottery sleeper. His size, athleticism and growing... more
28 Serge Ibaka PF 6-10 220 18 Congo Late first to early second
Ibaka got some hype this summer at an Adidas camp and international scouts will follow... more
29 Davon Jefferson SF 6-8 215 21 USC Late first to early second
Jefferson is an intriguing prospect who is starting to live up to the hype he's... more
30 Andrew Ogilvy C 6-10 250 19 Vanderbilt Late first to early second
An intriguing prospect because of skill and toughness, but his lack of athleticism and ideal... more
31 Eric Maynor PG 6-2 165 20 VA Commonwealth Late first to early second
32 Tyler Hansbrough PF 6-9 225 22 North Carolina Late first to early second
33 Austin Daye SF 6-10 190 19 Gonzaga Late first to early second
34 Earl Clark SF 6-9 200 19 Louisville Late first to early second
35 Brandon Rush SG 6-7 205 22 Kansas Late first to early second
36 Blake Griffin PF 6-10 240 18 Oklahoma Late first to early second
37 Kyle Singler SF 6-9 210 19 Duke Late first to early second
38 Ryan Anderson PF 6-10 225 19 California Late first to early second
39 Wayne Ellington SG 6-5 175 20 North Carolina Late first to early second
40 Scottie Reynolds PG 6-2 195 20 Villanova Late first to early second
41 Nikola Pekovic C 6-11 245 21 Serbia Late first to early second
42 Sherron Collins PG 5-11 200 20 Kansas Late first to early second
43 Victor Claver SF 6-11 217 19 Spain Late first to early second
44 Rudy Mbemba PG 6-0 186 20 Sweden Late first to early second
45 Courtney Lee SG 6-5 200 22 Western Kentucky Late first to early second
46 Richard Hendrix PF 6-8 260 21 Alabama Late first to early second
47 Nathan Jawai C 6-10 270 21 Australia Late first to early second
48 Malik Hairston SG 6-6 200 20 Oregon Late first to early second
49 Tyler Smith SF 6-7 210 21 Tennessee Late first to early second
50 Omri Casspi SF 6-7 206 19 Israel Late first to early second
51 Nick Calathes PG 6-5 185 18 Florida Late first to early second
52 Gerald Henderson SG 6-5 205 20 Duke Late first to early second
53 Paul Harris SG 6-4 220 21 Syracuse Late first to early second
54 Greivis Vasquez SG 6-5 195 20 Maryland Late first to early second
55 Josh Heytvelt PF 6-11 235 21 Gonzaga Late first to early second
56 Tyrese Rice PG 6-1 190 20 Boston College Late first to early second
57 Luc Richard Mbah a Moute SF 6-7 215 21 UCLA Late first to early second
58 Bill Walker SF 6-6 225 20 Kansas State Late first to early second
59 Taj Gibson PF 6-9 210 22 USC Second round to undrafted
60 Raymar Morgan SF 6-7 220 19 Michigan State Second round to undrafted
61 Patrick Patterson PF 6-8 245 18 Kentucky Second round to undrafted
62 Robin Lopez C 7-0 245 19 Stanford Second round to undrafted
63 Joey Dorsey PF 6-9 260 22 Memphis Second round to undrafted
64 Jason Thompson C 6-11 250 21 Rider Second round to undrafted
65 James Anderson SG 6-6 195 18 Oklahoma State Second round to undrafted
66 Daniel Hackett PG 6-5 205 20 USC Second round to undrafted
67 Jamont Gordon SG 6-4 225 20 Mississippi St. Second round to undrafted
68 Matt Bouldin PG 6-5 210 19 Gonzaga Second round to undrafted
69 Jeremy Pargo PG 6-2 220 21 Gonzaga Second round to undrafted
70 Artem Zabelin C 7-2 200 19 Russia Second round to undrafted
71 Brandon Costner PF 6-9 230 20 NC State Second round to undrafted
72 Gani Lawal PF 6-9 220 18 Georgia Tech Second round to undrafted
73 Nemanja Aleksandrov F 6-10 225 20 Serbia Second round to undrafted
74 Alexy Shved SF 6-7 170 19 Russia Second round to undrafted
75 A.J. Price PG 6-2 190 21 Connecticut Second round to undrafted
76 James Harden SG 6-5 210 18 Arizona State Second round to undrafted
77 Goran Dragic PG 6-4 180 21 Slovenia Second round to undrafted.
78 Jordan Hill PF 6-11 215 20 Arizona Second round to undrafted
79 Mario Chalmers PG 6-2 170 21 Kansas Second round to undrafted
80 Dominic James PG 6-0 175 21 Marquette Second round to undrafted
81 Anthony Randolph SF 6-10 210 18 LSU Second round to undrafted
82 Anton Ponkrashov PG 6-8 214 21 Russia Second round to undrafted
83 Johnny Flynn PG 6-0 175 18 Syracuse Second round to undrafted
84 Terence Williams SG 6-6 210 20 Louisville Second round to undrafted
85 D.J. White PF 6-9 240 21 Indiana Second round to undrafted
86 Stanley Robinson SF 6-9 215 19 Connecticut Second round to undrafted
87 Semih Erden C 7-1 240 21 Turkey Second round to undrafted
88 Kyle Weaver SG 6-6 185 21 Washington State Second round to undrafted
89 Nolan Smith SG 6-4 185 19 Duke Second round to undrafted
90 Marcelus Kemp SG 6-5 210 23 Nevada Second round to undrafted
91 Chris Lofton SG 6-2 197 21 Tennessee Second round to undrafted
92 Milenko Tepic SG 6-8 200 20 Serbia Second round to undrafted
93 Bo McCalebb PG 6-0 180 22 New Orleans Second round to undrafted
94 Corey Fisher PG 6-1 205 19 Villanova Second round to undrafted
95 Josh Shipp SG 6-5 207 21 UCLA Second round to undrafted.
96 Jawann McClellan SG 6-5 225 22 Arizona Second round to undrafted
97 Robert Dozier SF 6-9 215 22 Memphis Second round to undrafted
98 Lance Thomas PF 6-8 200 19 Duke Second round to undrafted
99 Mantas Kalnietis PG 6-5 194 21 Lithuania Second round to undrafted
100 Drew Neitzel PG 6-0 180 22 Michigan State Second round to undrafted
Now that I got that one out of the way, someone at ESPN must be reading this message board. How else can there be this combination of feces placed on a platter for me like this? Seriously, the Coach with no team writes it, it compares Bismack Biyombo to two of the best defensive big men from the past decade, and for no good reason there are complimentary comments of Kevin Love’s positional defense. Really? This has to be a spoof. Somebody must have just been itching for cheap laughs.
If not, take a look at Thorpe’s take on Patric Young and then last year on Solomon Alabi. I know that he is the all knowing genius coach of Team No One, but there is a pattern of him overvaluing these kinds of players without regard to their negatives. In addition to being a great shot blocker, Ben Wallace was also never foul prone. He was not foul prone at Virginia Union and never had a foul rate of over 4.1 per 40 in any NBA season where he played more than 200 minutes. This is why Wallace was someone who was able to play between 35-39 minutes per game during his prime. Wallace was also consistently among the league leaders in charges drawn, which does not fully speak to his abilities as a positional defender, but really is the only quantified measurement of a defender being in the right spot. Garnett also was never foul prone and one of the best positional defenders of his generation. See, what coaches who don’t have teams fail to realize is that negative plays matter. A player cannot be a great defensive player from the bench. Also, and this drives me crazy, while many people in the league and those who cover the NBA have caught on to steals being a deceptive stat that can reward gambling over proper defense, but the same is true of blocked shots. In fact, it is even worse because a steal at very least guarantees a change of possession whereas a blocked shot does no such thing. Am I supposed to believe JaVale McGee is a great defensive player, despite the fact for all his blocked shots they really have no big picture impact on the Wizards stopping anyone from scoring? Guys who play for the block need to be treated like guys who overplay passing lanes. Watching games matter, watch Biyombo, he is always looking for a reason to jump, and it results in as many bad plays as good.
My take on any player playing limited minutes is that I want it to be because the team has another first round pick at that position. Darren Collison had some nice backups at UCLA, and they turned into good NBA players but there was a good reason underclassmen were behind him. Sometimes it works, but hasn’t every NFL team fallen in love with the quarterback who backs up an All-Pro? What is that success rate like? I would not want someone who is playing limited minutes because he is doing something wrong. Biyombo has high foul rates and huge turnover rates over the past two years. He turned the ball over at a high rate in the EBA (where he played 2009-10 and had a higher foul rate than Nogueria has in that junior level league this season), the LEB, and the ACB. I do not wish to downplay the level of talent in Spain but let me make this clear, this narrative that Spain is “the second best basketball league in the world after the NBA” and that somehow means a great deal to the NBA IS A LIE. There is no correlation between success in Spain and success in the NBA. The problem with these kinds of lies is that they often go unchecked and then more and more people repeat it. Biyombo was elevated to the Fuenlabrada because they had to sell off their starting center Esteban Batista (a fact that I have not read by any American writer on the subject of this guy) despite the fact that his club was well aware of the fact that Biyombo brought as many negatives as positives to the floor. This is the same Esteban Batista that had a forgettable cup of coffee in the NBA and is now a top tier center in the ACB. This is not all that different fro David Andersen being a top tier ACB center and is now behind Aaron Gray and Jason Smith on New Orleans, and the same way Tiago Splitter was the best center in Europe and now is buried on the Spurs depth chart. A few years ago, San Antonio also brought back Marcus Haislip after a season where Haislip was one of the best big men in Spain, yet he never cracked the Spurs rotation. Pops Mensah-Bonsu has kept bouncing back and forth between Europe and the NBA because he keeps playing well in leagues like the ACB so teams keep giving him looks, but never plays well enough to stick with an NBA team for all that long. Do I really have to point out the big men who are having good runs in Spain? Martynas Andriuskevicius! The one-time Chad Ford darling is playing 22.8 minutes per for Meridiano Alicante and averaging 7.4 points, 5.7 rebounds, 1.1 blocks, 2.4 turnovers, and 1.8 turnovers per. Someone send out the Batsignal for Chad! He can still make it! Anyone remember D’or Fischer of West Virginia and the NBDL? Kosta Perovic of the Warriors? One-time Clipper Boniface Ndong and Yaroslav Korolev? Erazem Lorbek of Michigan State? Nike Caner-Medley of Maryland? Robert Archibald of Illinois? Lamont Barnes of Temple and every minor league in the US? Marcus Slaughter or San Diego State and every minor league in the US? Andy Chubb of Penn? Look, I am not looking to rip the ACB, but the big men of the ACB were for the most part fringe NBA prospects or fringe NBA players. If I rattled off those names, and the names of big men in the NBDL, Greece, or Russia I guarantee there is no difference in how anyone rates them, though I’m sure there can be a one hundred page thread debating who is better Andriuskevicius, Sasha Kaun, Dalibor Bagaric, or Patrick O’Bryant.
If you look at other notable imports from the ACB, you will find the highly praised and poor producing Rudy Fernandez, Mickael Gelabale, Walter Herrmann, Jorge Garbajosa, Zabian Dowdell, Gary Neal (though he spent much of last year in Italy and if you read some of this junk apparently that is a pickup game as opposed to the ACB), and Juan Carlos Navarro. How many of those players has been more than “just a guy” on their NBA teams? Juan Carlos Navarro wanted to be more than just a guy, and that is why he returned to Spain. Now, if a team was just looking a guy to play a role, then I have absolutely no problem scouring the globe to fill out a roster with capable bodies who can fill a role. It can be smart. Good for San Antonio to grab Gary Neal. He helped them out this season, but there is a difference in giving “a guy” a deal for the minimum or even using a second round pick on him and having that person be lottery pick who is supposed to help one of the dregs of the league become less awful. I need more value out of a lottery pick, even in a weak draft.
To be a lottery-worthy pick, a guy needs to be more than a one or two-trick pony (whether that is in the NCAA or anywhere else). Pau was a stud and not some 16 minute guy who was coming off the bench when he was in Spain. He was the MVP on the Spanish champion at the age of 20, and those 18.5 points per game in the Euroleague clearly showed his Biyombo-like offensive skill set. Marc Gasol played 34 minutes per game in his final year in the ACB. He averaged 16.6 PPG, 8.4 rebounds, 2.5 assists, and 1.8 blocks per. Save for the blocked shots, those numbers are like what Luis Scola put up there as well. Neither Gasol brother nor Scola had foul or turnover problems. They were big minute, big production guys in the ACB, Euroleague (Eurocup for Marc), and also in international play. Now, Serge Ibaka is different from those three, but he committed turnovers at half the rate and a quarter fewer fouls of Biyombo. By the way, the fouls are still an issue in the NBA with Ibaka. If you actually go back and look at the ACB numbers of the guys who did not translate well to the NBA, you will notice that they had high foul rates there, and shockingly when placed in the superior league that is the NBA those problematic foul rates became even higher. The more negative plays they make in their current league strongly correlates to more negative plays in the NBA, and players who make mistakes in the NBA land on the bench. It is true of guys from the NCAA, Spain, Greece, France, Russia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Italy, Croatia, Belgium, Turkey, Israel, and any other country people want to praise the caliber of club basketball.
Also, Love’s “solid positional defense” is laughably bad. Honestly, he improved so much this year that his team was in the same spot as they were the year before.
BTPH is like the sites secret weapon reserved for very special occasions. Youve done well, now rest. Youre basketball knowledge will be needed soon.
BTPH, you have wayyyy too much time on your hands.
BTPH is like the robocop of the site. No feelings no remorse, just cold hard justice
I'm still shocked he decribed Love as playing good positional defence, when he does nothing of the sort.
Biyombo could easily go #1, while his length is comparable to former busts (Thabeet, Sene, Whiteside), his athleticism blows any of there's away. He is faster than most small forwards. I have him at #3 currently, can't see anyone else besides Irving and Williams that could possibly go before him. Knight, Kanter? lol
"He is faster than most small forwards."
No, he isn't.
The more I think about it, the more I think he can go number one as odd as this sounds. In fact, BTPH's argument actually made Thorpe's idea stronger when you think about it.
"I have him at #3 currently, can't see anyone else besides Irving and Williams that could possibly go before him. Knight, Kanter? lol"
Is that a joke?
"In fact, BTPH's argument actually made Thorpe's idea stronger when you think about it."
Because Thorpe is throwing out the idea that Minnesota has went BPA for the past 3 drafts now and they ignored fits. If David Khan is looking to add a player, he should make it a fit pick and Biyombo makes the most sense. Kanter's knees are a "problem", Irving is the BPA, but you have 3 point guards on the roster, one hasn't played yet ( Let's be honest, we'd clown Minnesota if they went Irving and Rubio was good) and Williams is too similar to Beasley. Are both better? Yes. But as we know, Upside is the thing
John Riek was highly rated, but he was no where near ready. He went undrafted in 2008, tore his ACL, went to post grad school, then went to Mississippi St, where he doesn't have a developing coach. Not saying his career could have went any different, but if he went to a coach/system who knew how to groom big men (Georgetown for example) he might have been a NBA draft pick. Also, look at that list of draftees that year when Riek was ranked 8th. People forget
A) Griffin was re ranked as a top 10 pick because his upside when the draft lottery creator was updated 2 weeks before the draft ( I only remember this because I had Griffin oddly going 11th to the Bulls that year)
B) He crapped himself with a TERRIBLE game vs L'Ville in round 1 of the tourney, which shot his stock a bit because he lacked a jumpshot.
Do I think Biyo will be the first pick? Nope. Do I compare him to Ben Wallace? No. I compare him to Ronny Turiaf/Theo Ratliff with the ability to be a Chandler type scorer where EVERYTHING near the basket is his. If he can develop a slight jumper, he can be a great fit next to Love.
Well Biyombo is not a good fit. Despite what everybody is saying, I don't see him as a center in the NBA. I watched him in person get physically dominated by the younger Przemyslaw Karnowski -- who stands 7'1" and weights around 280 lbs. In the Nike Hoops Summit, the heaviest person on the US team weighed less than 230 lbs. The tallest player was Anthony Davis at 6'10". Biyombo played excellent defense against those thin, undersized forwards, but he still hasn't proven he can guard players bigger than him. Now, know that I'm not exaggerating when I say that he has NO offensive game outside of dunking off of two feet. He does not have the touch of Tyson Chandler, and he certainly doesn't have the jumper that Ibaka had when he entered the league. Does he complement Love on either side of the floor?
The answer is no, but maybe the perception is more important than that right now. Right now, people are comparing him to Ben Wallace and Kevin Garnett. He has a great wingspan and other likable physical attributes. Maybe he does go in the top-10; hell, maybe Minnesota will draft him in the top-4 or trade for him. It would be a mistake though, and there is little evidence to the contrary.
Also, don't overrate his athleticism. He's mobile enough, but he's not quicker than many small forwards at all. His leaping ability is very good, but not outstanding. He's certainly not on the level of Blake Griffin, Dwight Howard, JaVale McGee, Tyrus Thomas, Serge Ibaka, etc...
John Riek was highly rated, but he was no where near ready.
Neither is Biyambo.
When I mean no where near ready, I mean NOWHERE. Biyombo isn't ready on offense, I think he can be a good defensive player in the NBA right away. That's huge for a developing player because being able to play defense and being a hard worker gets you on the court as a rookie.
Riek was a project, but a lazy project who also didn't have a mind of his own ( note by the fact he committed to Cincy, only to have friends tell him to go to Mississippi St)
Also, Biyombo had one good game, alot of people ON THIS SITE overrated him.
Before we continue, I wanna say I seen Riek play in HS and all star type games because Duke was a late contender for him in his recruitment and I wanted to see how good he was. He was good, but I knew he wasn't coming to Duke, mainly because he was a PROJECT.
How was Wesley Johnson over Derrick Cousins BPA? That was need all the way.
How was Wesley Johnson over Derrick Cousins BPA?
Wesley Johnson was highly rated. He was considered by many as the 3rd-4th best prospect. Many people know DeMarcus Cousins was the better prospect, but was going to drop, so he was ranked at the time, mostly behind Johnson-Favors-Wall-Turner
You contradicted yourself in your response. You just said everyone knew Cousins was a better prospect. They went need and were also scared off by his perceived attitude problems. Randy Moss went 21st, did that make him the 21st best prospect? No, but old, white guys let image affect them sometimes and they got scared off. Wesley was a good prospect in his own right but he was not BPA.
go back to the 4th post in this thread. The form on the J is pretty bad but he's putting the ball on the floor and made a post move or two. This isn't the early 90's when you had to be Malone, Ewing, or Dream in the post. If you can get offensive rebounds, are athletic enough to finish strong and show some semblance of a move on occasion you can be a 20-10 guy. Look at Howard and Griffin. The kid is also 18, it's hard to believe he won't improve his skill set given more experience and NBA coaching.
I always thought Cousins was the best player in that draft. I dont think anyone thought Wes Johnson would be a better pro then DeMarcus Cousins, maybe they predicted Wes to keep his sanity which may not be the same with Cuz but never a better payer.
In terms of rankings, he was the better prospect. Everyone knew Cousins had a higher ceiling, but he was a risk and that dropped him down a peg in rankings. In terms of rankings, Cousins was there, Johnson was there. That usually means Johnson was higher on Minnesota's board then Cousins.
Also, Cousins would have fit a bigger need then Johnson, the fact they paid Darko 20 mil weeks later.....
Have constantly gone need over best player available. It has not worked, and does not appear to be working towards their future success. Their is a reason everyone made fun of them taking PG's for every pick in the 2009 draft, and than SF's all of last year. Jonny Flynn was the best player available at the 6th pick in the 2009 draft? After they had chosen Ricky Rubio? I do not know a single person who thought that. The wing was a much more present need at the time of the 2010 draft, and they went after it with reckless abandon, over players who many thought were better. DeMarcus Cousins had upside, sure, and fit a need that they reportedly were more happy with in Darko, but I do not know many people who saw Wesley Johnson as being a better player at the time than the talented albeit immature and volatile Cousins. Not to mention, his upside is much higher than Biyombo.
As far as the person who laughed off Kanter going ahead of Biyombo, I would love to see those two battle. In my mind, Kanter would completely own him. If Kanter were playing in Europe right now, he would be putting up numbers far more impressive than Biyombo, as his skill set is on another level. He may not have his length or shot blocking ability, but I am sure he would have crushed Biyombo offensively. To the people judging Biyombo on his Hoop Summit performance, please realize the US had 0 real post players. The closest thing was Rakeem Christmas, who was as raw as Biyombo. Biyombo is not Dwight Howard, Ben Wallace or Emeka Okafor, he was beaten down the floor by quicker players, and while he was one of the most impressive stat lines of the event, their were much better NBA prospects there. If the Timberwolves took him with a top pick, they would be following a trend that is seeming to fulfill David Kahn's wish of being fired. Not to mention, if you play Biyombo and Love together next year and expect Biyombo to fill a role, they should be challenging the 1972-73 76ers for the worst record in NBA history. Again.
Also, my last point is, calling Biyombo "Biyo" is kind of like calling Patrick Ewing "P Ew". Might want to think that one over before using it as a nickname staple.