Language in Sports. Should people be offended? (Kobe Situation)
I don't think fans or people that are watching on TV should be surprised, shocked or offended when they hear some bad language. Basketball is a heated sport and things are said. Not to mention, there are mics EVERYWHERE. I play in a men's league and the language in that can get nasty. I have had to privilege of sitting in good seats and it's the same. These are grown men playing a sport they are passionate about, they shouldn't be fined or have people hate them, if something vulgar comes out of the players mouth. Trust me, being a Timberwolves fan, I heard enough MF'ers from KG to last me a lifetime and I am fine.
I get it but it was a "gay slur" even though we just think of it as another way to say douche or jerk or something to some people its pretty offensive.
I think that most people expect NBA players to use profanity. However, derogatory words and terms that clearly offend and alienate a group of people have no place on national television. I'm all for trash talk but there is a big difference between saying something to rattle your opponent and using a blatantly offensive word to insult a referree.
It wasn't the fact that he used fould language in this situation. Players use foul language in every sport and we see it and hear it on TV. The problem was what he said. I for one don't think that what he said warranted a fine of any kind and I get sick of the whole "politically correct" thing anyway. People in this country have gotten too sensitive about those types of things. This is a free country and Kobe is allowed to say whatever he wants in that situation. He didn't put himself on camera and if you watch the video he really didn't even yell that at the ref. He yelled "Hey Benny!" and when he was ignored he said out loud TO HIMSELF..."You f****** f*****." He wasn't really even saying that to the ref. He was saying it to himself about the ref. If we can't voice our own thoughts and opinioins like that anymore then we have lost the right to freedom of speech. If Kobe had gotten on the mic at the press conference afterward and made that comment then that's a whole other story. Kobe was upset, called someone a name, simple as that. The media is responsible for blowing this thing out of proportion. Kobe didn't owe anyone an apology. He simply got caught saying something that millions of other people say on a daily basis. Why we hold athletes to a higher standard on things like this is beyond me. They are humans just like we are and they have some of the same thoughts that we do.
Carlos Boozer is notorious for his "Gimme that sh*t" on every rebound
Not trying to play the card, but if it was LeBron who said this, we'd be attacking him like crazy. Kobe says it, we gotta do the "let's talk about without really talking about routine" and forget it 2 weeks later.
True like when KG supposably called charlie villanueva a "cancer patient" everyone was goin nuts, but no one on here mentions the fact that villaneuva tries to go after ryan hollins saying he was goin to kill him
I think the difference is that kids aren't wearing Villanueva jerseys.
I thought that whole thing was stupid. They dont fine other players for using poor words. I am against all of that but I know people do it. Also I am not for this new world system where everything offends gay people. It is wrong to say anything bad about anybody but the thing is what Kobe said was not directed towards gay people. This whole cause they have is bogus and needs to be stopped.
I dont acknowledge gay people as a race or religion and they are just a group of people who made a choice and some how they have rights. Next we will see nerds grouping up to get rights because they were picked on or even a thieve guile. Perverted people will come up with a group and say people cant use that word because it offends them and they should be allowed to go anywhere and watch &$#%#&@! and do perverted things.
No offense to the nerds i am part nerd myself and would be glad to get extra rights lol.
I am aware I will get minus points for this but the truth needs to be said. This new generation of how things is done scares me.
A group gets a little media power, feed you lies so you can feel sorry for them and then they abuse thier power and control a majority of the people. That makes no sense to me.
the rest of the season. he's getting out of control. too much money.
People who are constantly offended by things need to relax and put things in perspective.
When people are angry they say things that they obviously don't mean.
At the end of Pacers-Bulls Game 3, there was a closer of Danny Granger on the bench, and all of a sudden he yelled "FCK!!!" very clearly. What if he yelled "FGOT'? Would it really be that much worse?
Did Kobe actually think the ref was gay, and try use it as a point of discrinimation? I think we have to side with "probably not". Nobody should be supporting what kobe said, because he obviously showed a lack of control.
BUT. I think there are bigger fish to fry then random swears that happen to be associated with gays, but in the context, they really aren't being used with that meaning. There is real and very direct discrimination against gays happening around the world, and I think should give it a rest with all the politically correct nonsense and acknowledge the real issues.
So what that kids dont wear villaneuva jerseys. Should Kobe be fined because he is a superstar rather just an average player. So its ok for scrub players to not get all the calls, but superstars get all the fines GTFOH. Players show thier emotions, its normal everyone does(is it right No, but it happens all the time), and if they don't people complain about them not having enough emotion or lack of interest. Point is people will always complain about every little thing
No, he said why is no one talking about what Villanuave did, basically what I'm saying is no one cares about Villanuava.
this is 100% accurate
I am a fan of Kobe, but using the "F" word (the one he used) and the "N" word and any other word that discriminates against a certain segment of the population is a fine worthy offense IMO. I get the fact that is a very intense atmoshpere and cursing happens and we should all expect that when up close at a game. However, there is a line and Kobe crossed it.
can't read some of your post, too big.
If you say any negative word, there is a group of people that will be offended. The N word and gay people being called f----- is not the same thing. That is disrespect to black people to mention those two together. Gay people did not have to go through the same things as black people in the past or even now. They get made fun and maybe some people harm them.
This happens to a lot of people. Bullies dont just attack gay people but all kinds of people based on something different. It is wrong but it is also wrong for gay people to compare their situation to black people.
Being black is not something you can have in the closet so to speak and it is not a choice. Being black is not a sin.
Gay people were never seen as property, Gay people did not go through slavery or wer descended from people that had little financial support to past down to each generation.
Sorry for my rant but I am very passionate about this. It offends me that this generation compare gay people and black people's struggle.
There is more proof that being gay is a choice versus just being born that way.
I don't care what someone friend who is gay says. At one point do people realize, most people will lie to benefit themselves.
"I dont acknowledge gay people as a race or religion and they are just a group of people who made a choice and some how they have rights."
I agree. Gay people shouldn't have any rights.
But seriously sheltwon, you're an idiot.
lol@ NoMoney proving my point because if Kobe would have called the ref an idiot maybe he would still have his money.
Also just a question, how is calling a person a idiot online mean anything.
Anybody can call someone an idiot or whatever but prove me wrong.
That is something I realize about this world and especially more in this generation.
You call names but can never support your claims with hard evidence or put out information that I can critique.
I guess it is a tactic used in politics so that is why people feel it is wise to use it.
You ARE an idiot. Only a fool would argue with somebody as ignorant as yourself.
You say homosexuality is a choice? Where's your "hard-evidence" on that?
You think it's wrong to compare black people and gay people, but you compare gay people with NERDS and PERVERTS?!
Gay people have it way worse than blacks right now (EDIT: at least in terms of bullying and open ignorance). A large percentage of the country is as small-minded as you are. People protest against gays, demonize them, shun them. Why does their plight have to be compared to slavery? Obviously, African-Americans has a horrible history. Worse than gay people. So, what? Hate is hate.
You are the one that called me an idiot so you need to give proof@ NoMoney.
Obviously by commenting on what I said, you are trying to argue.
NoMoney you say stuff without evidence and you buy into media hype.
Also if you think I am an idiot. That is your opinion.
How much is your opinion worth?
How much is my opinion worth?
We are just two people with opinions. You called me an idiot and you dont know me. I will take that as you are upset. You dont upset me at all because you being upset means I stuck a nerve. I touched a sensitive spot.
You misread a lot of what I wrote. If you disagree with me and you can not prove you are right then so what. Neither one of us will win awards.
You can say to me that you hate me but what is your hate going to do to me.
I see very little threat in that you think I am an idiot granted you proved my point. I guess some words against some people don't mean as much.
It is only wrong to offend some people. lol
You're a joke, and I have no interest in arguing with someone I have no respect for.
Wait, Gay people shouldn't have rights or special rights?
won this one.
I think its not right to name call when you disagree with someone. If you cant articulate a legit argument then dont say anything.
As far as the topic of the thread I dont think anybody should be suprised unless you are a middle class american cooped up in a suburb oblivious to what is going on in your own country. Girls called their gay friends f_aggys, some gay people even call themselves that.
People are acting like racsim and hate crimes existed 200 years ago. The civil rights movement was only 40 years ago so I am not suprised when a famous person says something hateful because these people are among us not hidden somewhere in the south or back roads as stereotypes would suggest.It wasnt too long ago when making fun of gay people was the thing to do. Example: Eddie Murphy Delirious 1983 opened his showing making fun of homosexuals and the crowd loved it.
This doesn't deserve a legit argument. There is a big difference in hating someone for who they are versus how they are. I don't hate sheltwon because he's an idiot or because he's black. Hell, I don't hate him at all. Just like I don't hate the guy from my high school who got on the channel 6 news and explained how the country should go back to slavery because there was "less crime back then."
Ignorant people like sheltwon cannot be argued with. He clearly has a certain view of gay people, and that isn't going to change by me "articulating a legit argument". But it is people like him that have led to all the gay teen suicides lately. People who see homosexuality as a sin and don't think they deserve any more rights than perverts.
But whatever. Let's visit the KKK and try to have a reasonable argument with them. I'm sure if we articulate ourselves well enough, they will certainly change their stance.
Actually racism have been going on for centuries. There are examples of this in the bible. I think it is becoming more and more out there because we have a bigger and quicker media stream. I mean there was no internet and phones with recording ability back then. Now if you record someone doing something wrong and post it online in maybe 10 seconds or so, you can give the whole word a picture of stuff virtually real time. Most of the hate we know about from the past was documented in written works.
Hate is wrong period but hate has been toward everyone at some point. My point was that you can group a lot of similiar individuals that have been hated on.
Also if you make a unpoplular choice, people will hate on you. It is not right but it happens all the time. Gay people should not feel like they deserve special treatment.
I am African American and I feel like even sometimes my own race goes overboard about stuff that was said that could be taken in a different context.
We have posters on here that say unpopular stuff and get clowned and namecalled but nobody is going to get fined and it is not seen as a hate crime despite there being hate involved.
I'm Black and HELL NO, "Being GAY" is no way NEARRRRRRR!!! To the struggle of a black man. ANY DAY... Its cool to be gay now, hence the reason you see so many people coming out the closet, or getting married. This is a new day for them and to say they are being ridiculed is ridiculous. And NO MONEY, stop using the word "ignorant" if you don't know how to properly use it. Majority of this is just media driven. Do you really think kids that were thought of as gay 10 years ago and bullied didn't kill themselves back then? This isn't a new situation. Its just been brought to your eyes. Honestly, I didn't know F.A.G. was any different than GAY... I mean, if Kobe would have said, F'king Gay, or F'king H.O.M.O. or F'king H.O.M.O.sexual, would that be any different? NO!!! So, it doesn't matter how you say it, Gay is Gay. I dont understand why gay folks would even have a problem with this...
But by calling him an idoit an acknowledging his "ignorance" you are giving him free publicity since we both know we can't change his opinion why address it.
But whatever I guess we can bring up something of a different a scale and throw it in at the end just to take petty jabs at each other, and then go on to quote each other in "italics" and state this must be a personal problem since you're so defensive. Then resort to name calling....so I propose we skip all the boring stuff and get to the insults. I'll start............dweeb
minus points for all of u.
any debate by name calling.... That's something a 7 year old child would do...
something people don't want to talk about because it brings back how America REALLY was. That's why they always down play racism. It still relevent STILL today. Its just in form of the Good ol Boy system.
@tuck243 sorry I forgot to quote and use italics for who I was talking to because thats the protocol around here but it wasnt toward you
GAY... Pun intended... I mean its used by people that disagree with what you say BUT they don't have enough heart or balls to actually write it. I respect these cyber "thugs" more than I respect you ball-less point snatchers...
I addressed it to demean it. Extreme example -- if you saw a lady getting raped on a train. "Oh, I shouldn't say anything. It would only give the rapist publicity." Or, I don't know you could say something like "Hey, stop that raping!" Now, Homophobia is WRONG. I'll speak out against it.
WizKid, I don't even know what the hell your argument is. I called him an idiot and I stand by that. You may continue to condemn that if you please.
"I'm Black and HELL NO, "Being GAY" is no way NEARRRRRRR!!! To the struggle of a black man. ANY DAY..."
Are you gay? Than you don't know. Oh, and in case you haven't noticed -- it's also cool to be black.
Why do black people have to have it worse? Why do you have to compare the two groups of people? I'm against racism too, but there is not nearly as much racism in the Untied States as there is homophobia.
Ignorant - "Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular"
Hmmm... I think I'm using the word right.
You are using it to demean him, (the reason you call him an idiot and ignorant in the same sentence). Ignorant is someone who is oblivious to the situation. You didn't mean it in a way that he lacked a certain knowledge to understand how hard it is to be "gay"...
Is it really cool to be black? Dude how old are you?
"it's also cool to be black."
Lol where did this come from???
I didn't call you an idiot because I am upset -- though I am -- I called you an idiot, because you are an idiot.
I'm not over-sensitive about any of this. Kobe got caught up in the moment and unintentionally insulted some people. Then he got fined, apologized and spoke out against homophobia. It's not a big deal.
You know what Kobe didn't do? He didn't suggest that gay people choose to be gay, imply that they were being a bunch of cry-babies, and then compare them to perverts. Kobe has a spec of decency and respect for other people (or at the very least common-sense). This is clearly something that our above poster lacks.
And WizKid, he suggested that black people have it worse because it was "cool" to be gay.
Oh, and my age is irrelevant.
"'Being GAY' is no way NEARRRRRRR!!! To the struggle of a black man. ANY DAY... Its cool to be gay now"
The above is what I was responding to. The following is a bit of a satire that is related to the subject.
Okay just to be clear I was never arguing and I think its unfair for mutiple people to attack one person, so I'm bowing out
mention it. At this day in age you won't physically see racism unless you look at the school system. But when you become a grown up you REALLY see it. Competing for a job with someone with less experience, education, and drive than you, and LOSE the job to someone him. I see it all the time. I have to work 10x harder than the average white man to obtain what I want. That's why. In fact, I was having lunch with real cool down the earth branch manager, about a month ago, "When we F'k up we need to put it on someone that's one of the reasons its great to keep a token black guy" *chuckle, chuckle*... Even though I know he was playing the sad reality its some truth to that. Go look at the salary differental from a black guy with the same experince and education IN the same job as a white guy. ITS RIDICULOUS. So, don't tell me its not worse.
Wait wait wait you just showed how its cool to be black by posting a MADTV skit when something like this...
has 39 million views??
don't get it, thats fine, its just something you're "ignorant" to. Which I understand.
Who's being attacked here? Sheltwon? Me? You?
I don't honestly understand the argument any of you are trying to make.
- It's okay to insult gay people because black people aren't as cool?
- Calling somebody an idiot (lack of knowledge) and ignorant (lack of awareness) in the same sentence doesn't make sense?
- Quoting people using italics is stupid?
The way I see it, I just told somebody off for being narrow-minded and I've spent the last hour or so defending myself for it.
you just showed how simple minded YOU were, by calling him an idiot while debating. #ThatIsAll
"ITS RIDICULOUS. So, don't tell me its not worse."
I never said one was worse than the other. However, open homophobia is WAY more prevalent than racism, which is what I've been talking about.
"Competing for a job with someone with less experience, education, and drive than you, and LOSE the job to someone him. I see it all the time. I have to work 10x harder than the average white man to obtain what I want."
Aren't many companies rewarded for hiring minorites? Affirmative action and all that? I did find this interesting source in support of what you're saying.
So yeah, I'm ignorant about the struggles black people are currently going through. I never claimed I wasn't.
"you just showed how simple minded YOU were, by calling him an idiot while debating."
I never debated with him.
I also never claimed to be intelligent or a great debater. In fact I am a slow learner and an average student. But he is an idiot and not worth arguing with.
was mainly for white women. That's a big reason why the civil acts movement was a success. You talking to someone who feels like affirmative action is a joke but its a long process that has helped out women and minorities. I'm kinda done with this debate, but if you are going to throw out "Affrimative Action" as a defense then you are CLEARLY misinformed. Where you think "token black guy" come from???
What debate? I'm not using anything as a defense.
I told you that I don't know much about the African-American struggle. I asked you about Affirmative Action, and then I posted a link (that apparently doesn't work, my bad) to an article to a study that people with "white" sounding names tend to get more job interviews than people with "black" sounding names.