[highflyer0Participant]

 I think they need to do something about this roster.  Now, for a team that is 16 games under .500 that may not seem at all like a bold statement, but I’ve been hearing for the past couple of years (from some people) that they need to keep the "young core" intact at all costs.  The "young core" consists of Randle, Russell, Clarkson, and Ingram (although Zubac should be included as well).

I don’t think keeping that young core intact should be a priority.  In fact, I’d prefer it was broken up.  Numbers-wise, it looks like Randle and Russell are doing fairly well for their age, but I just don’t see it.  Russell, in particular, concerns me.  To put it bluntly, I think he’s lazy.  His lack of speed doesn’t help mitigate this impression, but, regardless of his physical limitations, I don’t see any passion in the way he carries himself or the way he plays.  It is not popular to talk about a player’s intelligence, but, to be honest, I don’t know if he’s smart enough to run a team.  He makes loads of stupid passes and bad decisions.  I know he’s young, but he makes the same stupid passes and bad decisions over and over and over.  It’s one thing to make mistakes.  It’s another thing not to learn from them.  I have no doubt he can be a very good scorer in this league, but there a lot of good scorers who do not make their team better.  I wish the Lakers would try out Russell at shooting guard and see how he fares there.  I’m not sure if he has the IQ, the athleticism, or the defensive potential to play point guard full time in this league.  As of now, I’d much rather have Malcolm Brogdon than Russell on this Lakers team.  Randle, similarly to Russell, does not display any desire or passion on defense.  His attitude is questionable and, although his numbers are better this year, I don’t see a whole lot of improvement in his finishing ability, and definitely not in his defense.  Clarkson is a nice bench player and has probably reached his peak.  I don’t mind if they keep him or not.

In terms of young guys on the team that I like, I really think Brandon Ingram will be a very good player for them in the near future.  He has shown nice improvement over the past few weeks and already plays very solid defense.  He is a quiet, intelligent kid, in the mold of Kawhi Leonard (not game-wise just yet), and seems to play hard whenever he’s out on the court.  He’s struggled with his shot this year but I think he’ll be a solid shooter as soon as next year.  At the very least, he’ll be a solid starter at the small forward position for over a decade.  Ivica Zubac, the 19 year-old Euro center, is another guy I like a lot.  He plays really hard and his passion for basketball and for the Lakers shines through in his post-draft interviews.  Look for him to be their starting center very soon (maybe even at some point this season).  Larry Nance is a great role player who infuses the team with some much-needed athleticism and defensive intensity.  I’d definitely prefer to keep him around.    

Overall, I can see why a lot of fans are wary about trading away Russell and Randle.  They have shown flashes of stardom (more so Russell than Randle), and these flashes make it seem very risky to part with them.  However, there’s more to the game than talent.  If smarts, basketball IQ, intensity, and passion for the game didn’t matter, I’d say Russell would be a great player.  Unfortunately, there’s a reason why Jimmy Butler is a star and Michael Beasely is not.  Randle has the same intensity and consistency issues as Russell but fans seem to be much less attached to him than they are to Russell.  In a perfect world, I’d say you give the young guys until next season to see how they progress, and then cut ties with Russell and Randle if they don’t show the necessary improvement.  But, it isn’t a perfect world, and that’s why I hope the Lakers’ management (whom I have next to 0 trust in) will be brave enough to take an offer for Russell or Randle if a favorable opportunity presents itself.  

 

[BeastMode716Participant]

 I don’t think there is any way to tank into the bottom 2 to save our pick b/c Miami is clearly tanking & Brooklyn is barely a pro team & you really Must get in the bottom 2 to ensure staying in the top 3 of the Lottery.

The last 2 teams w/ the 3rd wors record managed to actually land the #3 pick but it is very rare that the Draft Lottery just goes in order at the top as it has the last 2 years. Over the last 20 years the #3 team almost Never lands that #3 pick.

The ultimate slight would be if the Sixers jumped from #8 or #9 & knocked us out of the bottom 3 but as talented & deep as this Draft is I just don’t see a Franchise changing Super Star here. I see a lot of Fantastic #2 & #3 options but I don’t see a Greek Freak or a Joel EMbiid or a KAT or a Unibrow or a Ben Simmons.

B/c of that & b/c I just do not see this young core developing into anything but decent to good players but certainly not stars who could attract a Free Agent Super Star & b/c the new CBA will allow teams to keep 2 Super Stars now the Draft is More critical than ever & I really think we need to Tank for DeAndre Ayton in 2018. Ayton could be a Super Star Big man & he would open so much space that players like D’Lo & Ingram would become formidable w/ all that space. 

I’m not Trolling & I Def do not want to get Negged – in fact, I’m an emotional wreck b/c the Nuggets just toyed w/ my Lakers & it looks hopeless to me right now. We ARE going to lose 1 of our next 2 – 1st round picks whether it is 2017 or 2018 & it looks like we are going to be Deep in the Lottery in Both years & it crushing the spirit of Laker Nation.

Dr. Buss was a Genius who worked Magic (pardon the pun) w/ trades & Drafts but now we are lost b/c we have rich kids who never held a job w/ zero Life experience running one of the world’s great sports franchise & it doesn’t look like they have Any idea what they are doing.

 

 

 

 

 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

or was it Jerry West?  

Nice to see the Lakers fan drop back to reality.  Now I’m hearing y’all use the word "tank" while in Philly we have our two stars, and are set up perfectly for this draft of deep #2 and #3 guys.

Early in the year due to effort y’all were saying you were gonna make the playoffs and no looking back, and now I’m hearing "tank". At least you guys are realistic, well two of you, and note teh weaknesses in Randle and Russell.

Russell has no legs, he has the legs of a female.  He has a nice shot, but the difference between him and Curry is that Curry has legs.

Randle I was never impressed with at Kentucky.  He is a solid body that can play hard but to say he’s a "Lebron" type, is ludicrous.

Ingram is a size mismatch at guard and his stroke was smooth as butter last year and he gets how to play and he’ll get that stroke back.

Zubac looks good but young.  

I think we on this forum have to accept reality and fall less into hype.  The Lakers were a nicely constructed team due to Lou Williams scoring ability.

But toting Nick Young out there like he’s some loveable baller is so cheesy.  Its probably the best spot for Nick Young because the Lakers glam squad fans would appreciate him and likewise, but in Philly we hated him, like Hated him, which is why I never got his popularity in LA but it all makes sense.

Y’all love the show.  Karl Towns would be ideal for y’all…….in Philly we are fine with the Process.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Reptilian MonkParticipant]

 The best young player on the Lakers is Larry Nance. Always brings the effort, energy and consistency. I agree Rndle and Russel could be good 2 or 3 options in a couple of years. Ingram has a higher celing. 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

I don’t know if this would make sense to some of you guys, but Russell’s body language everytime he plays is that of the dude in pick-up games who we all know is just taking it easy on the fellas (because he is good), but at times trying too hard to be cool.

Except Russell doesn’t have the luxury to have that lazy ass body language on the court because defenders on the NBA will smell that like fresh blood and prey on you. 

I bet a lot of NBA players have it in mind that if you pressure Russell just a bit, that will mess up his rythm greatly. HIs handles are too sloppy for a point guard, and a little pressure will force him to pick up his dribble. He needs to improve this fast.

 

 

 

 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

when I mentioned all his different "hairstyles" even before the year started.  He was a smooth talking smooth styled kid, but you can’t be so focused on your damn hair.  I know you are playing in LA, and youwant to play that chill measured type ball and only go hard against certain players….

To be honest you could have all the talent in the world….there is NOTHING I can’t stand more in this game I love…

Than to see guys pick and choose when they want to go hard.  Its a major insecurity.  Guys only want to play hard against other good ballers and they may be talented, but this guy has Carmelo all over him.

He is disinterested when he isn’t playing late in games, and he doesn’ trealize its his GAME that is preventing him from being on the floor.  

But still, its silly to have Nick Young and Lou Williams out there.  I know you are paying them, but let your young guys develop.  At least play D’Angelo, I bet he’s frustrated by that.  But still, he don’t help his cause by picking and choosing who he wants to play hard against.

Classic Carmelo picking his game up against Lebron but chilling against the rest of the league.  Thats why Carmelo ain’t a leader.  And D’Angelo does the same thing against good teams, nobody respects that.

Ingram is the real deal.  

 

 

 

 

 

  

[markfitz14Participant]

I watched a Lakers game a few weeks ago. Both Ingram and Russell seem so slack out there. The announcers were talking about how the Lakers GM talked with Ingram about intensity. About how Kobe had this crazy intensity in practice and on the court and he wanted some more of that from Ingram. Russell and Ingram play like they think it is cool to look like they are playing effortlessly. But then they get burned. 

I think it just boils down to being young and once they get better they will snap out of it a bit.

 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

there is a difference…

Ingram naturally plays at a measured pace.  He feels the game out and right now he’s the rookie so if he flashes too much its a wierd psychological thing with Randle and Russell probably gonna throw a fit, and Ingram can sense that and probably Walton knwos this too which is why he is trying to ease him into his place.  Ingram isn’t being used properly but it also takes some time, he is developing into that if not star than sidekick to star role.

Russell is just lazy.  I don’t see Russell playing at a measured pace.  He needs to be more of a go-get-it type player and take games over because his game and style allows for it.  He wants to be the flashy cross you over guy, but he does’nt do it consistently.  I just don’t think he has the body, lack of legs, to be that guy.

Ingram’s natural gifts like his length allow him to play at the measured pace he has.  Don’t need him to be a killer thats just not who he is.

If Russell ain’t a killer, he saps your energy.  

Ingram is a stable rock and Russell is Eeyore.

 

 

 

 

 

  

[markfitz14Participant]

 True, makes some sense now. I can see that

[HitsterParticipant]

 The Lakers could convey their first rounder to Philly this year and 2019 first rounder to Orlando. Even if Pick doesn’t go to Philly this year it will certainly go next year and it is possible that the very top pick could go to Philly next year via Lakers if that happened.

The Lakers could be in rebuild for a few more years so could lose 2 high picks and future trades are hard with them already owing picks.

Ideally for them they keep their first rounder this year, top 3 in a deep draft should enable them to extract a good player to go with the core. Let that team develop, add a FA or two, players are on rookie deals, Lakers is still an attractive franchise to play for so they can attract big names in the future when the young core has developed.

Luke Walton will get them playing as a unit and even if they tank this year, give the guys decent game time and let them learn on the job.

 

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

I drank the Luke Walton koolaid too soon. In doing my best T-Rex impersonation I proclaimed this team would make the playoffs. And in doing my best T-Rex impersonation, I was incredibly wrong.

This team has a long ways to go but I don’t necessarily agree with the sentiments that are shared above me.

Look, Ingram and Russell are the way they are. For someone to ask for me intensity is asking them to be someone they are not. They are relaxed guys. And that is okay. Intensity, while great and at times helpful, isn’t a requirement to be a great basketball player. Basketball skills are. And they both have a lot of unrefined skills at this point. The two are 20 and 19 years old. I think at times this gets lost on people, and a society which now expects instant gratification.

Russell is a methodical player. So when it seems like he is taking it easy out there, that is the reason. He makes a few lazy passes a game, a few boneheaded plays. But what 20 year old learning the PG position, which to me is not his natural position doesn’t? If it seems he is making lazy passes, I think it’s because he is still overwhelmed by the speed and athleticism of some of the players he is facing. Some are just as I said, boneheaded. But expecting a 20 year old pg to play consistently and put up big numbers every game at this point is unrealistic. In fact, it’s something only done by the all time greats. Please, find me a 20 year old PG in the last 20 years that has been absolutely better. The per 36 stats won’t show you anybody, maybe Kyrie. The per 36 numbers will show you Russell is actually ahead of the curve, even when you factor in the great PG’s that are in the game today.

His defense will never be great. He will never be a lockdown defender. And in reality, there aren’t any lockdown defenders at the PG position. A player needs to make it harder for the opponent, but the PG position is loaded every night. He doesn’t have to be great, he just needs to be average in that department. Which I think in a few years he will be.

I also thought the dreaded Chad Ford and Kevin Pelton made an interesting point about Russell. Name an under 25 PG that is absolutely better than Russell right now? I think they consider Kyrie a combo guard so he isn’t included, otherwise he would be the only one. Russell, is at or near the top of that list and that counts for something. We are tailing out of the golden era we have just been in of PG’s.

I could give an equally long breakdown of Ingram, and Randle and maybe I will in time. But a quick synopsis would be, Ingram while having abysmal statistics this year, has been very impressive. You wouldn’t know this unless you actually watch Laker games. But man, he is a very smart player for being so young. I also don’t think he is done growing. He already makes plays using his physical gifts and these will become more prominent as he grows into his body. His shooting will come along.

Larry Nance Jr and Zubac were great finds by the FO. I am on record, on this site as hating the Nance pick when it happened. But unlike most people, I love it when I am wrong. Which I most certainly was. If it wasn’t for injury concerns I would say he will definitely be starting over Randle sooner than later. But he seems to be made of glass.

Zu Alcindor will be a better player than Mozgov by the end of the season. He should be starting by next year barring a legit big man addition to the team.

This brings me to Clarkson, Young and Lou. They should trade them…. all of them. Clarkson, for all the praise he receives is an absolute ball hog. He goes against everything Walton is trying to instill in this team. He has some talent, but I have always thought he was better as a 6th man and that will be his role for the majority of his career. But even in that role he constant makes stupid plays. He’s better than Russell right now… maybe. I can’t even say that with certainty, and he is 4 years older. The difference though is Russell is a system player, Clarkson is not. He will not excel unless you give him the ball and say do your thing… which I don’t think is how Walton wants to run this team.

Clarkson, Young and Lou need to go. They need to go if only for the reason that the Lakers have so few assets, they need to cash in on the ones they do have while their prices are the highest. I think Lou could fetch a late 1st. Clarkson I have no idea what his trade value is like. And Young might be able to fetch a 2nd rounder.

BUT… the biggest wrench in the Lakers plans are the ridiculously stupid contracts for Luol Deng and Mozgov. Deng is a 4 now a days, but the Lakers have two young players at that position so he won’t see many minutes at his best position. What are the odds that the Lakers made the two worst signings of the off season.

You know, I used to be one of the few defenders of Jim Buss and Mitch. However my time is up with them. While they have been pretty good at finding players or contributors late in the draft (assuming it’s them and not say… Jesse Buss and Ryan West?) outside of that they have no perspective of this roster. An unwillingness thus far to move players who are fan favorites (Lou and Young, Pau etc.) They are too bad of a team to be this dormant in moves.

The harder question is who do the Lakers bring in to replace them? My suggestion would be Jerry West as President of Basketball Operations. And Mike Zarren as the GM. Zarren is completely capable of managing a team. What about Stinkie? Did he learn from his mistakes? There is nobody better at asset accumulation, continuity be damned. I don’t think Laker nation could embrace him the way 76er fans did. We are too used to winning.

[BeastMode716Participant]

 I gave Phila fans grief for 3 or 4 years but deep down I knew the Bynum trade decimated that franchise.

The Doug Collins was running that organization from the coaching position & he did not give a damn. He pushed all their chips in on that Bynum deal – a deal he prob felt he HAd to make b/c he drafted Evan Turner over Boogie Cousins in the 2010 Draft & Collins gave up Nik Vucevik, Andre Igudola, Moe Harkless plus their 2015 & 2017 1st round draft picks.

And if that was not bad enough that Collins burned it to the ground &just rolled out when Bynum did not work out he signed 3 average players to long term max deals (Thad Young, Jru Holiday & Evan Turner) – paying Three 6’5” OK players like they are some All Star core was outrageous

Us picking Russell instead of Porzingus is our version of Evan Turner over Boogie Cousins. I like Ingram, of course Simmons was the pick at #1 but Ingram was Def the #2 pick there. But when you pick an Evan Turner or D’Angelo Russell at #2 & miss on a future All Star it just kills your franchise b/c you are playing catch up for Years….. I even wish we took Okafor. Okafor is no bust. He just scored 26 the other night like he just rolled out of bed & it was nothing. He’s terrible on Defense but Phila has no guards. If Okafor was playing behind Clarkson & Ingram who are much better defensively we would have Something to get excited about every night.

But back to my original point, When I Really take a deep look at what Hinkie did for Phila I would LUV that! Look at their 2017 Draft. They had No 2015 or 2017 1st round picks & Hinkie got Both picks back. Okafor was basically a free pick. And 2017 pick Orlando gave back to move up 2 spots in the 2014 Draft b/c Orlando wanted Elfrid Payton & the Sixers floated a rumor they were trading MCW & drafting Payton. I Still remember MCW being interviewed as it was happening & he looked Shocked when they asked him. And they end up getting Saric who they wanted all along anyway along w/ their 2017 pick back

Then they trade MCW anyway & get our pick which looks like it will be 2017. They fleece Sacramento for their 2019 1st round pick & a pic swap this year. They could Make the playoffs this year & they will Still have 2 Lottery picks b/c they have the King’s & Lakers picks.

Or how about this scenario that makes me want to throw up. What if we keep our pick this year & hopefully get a stud, but we still have a few years ahead of us in development. That Phila team Will be in the playoffs starung next year w/ Embiid & Simmons. What if we land the #1 pick in 2018 & have to hand it over to the Sixers who are in the playoffs & then Sacramento lands the #1 pick in 2019 b/c maybe Boogie leaves & they Also hand over the #1 pick to Phila.

It’s Insane how Hinkie has set up that Phila Franchise for Years. Bryan Colangelo prob just hangs at strip clubs & casinos b/c all he has to do is let it run on auto pilto & don’t screw it up. So would I trade 3 years of sucking for that? – Hell Yea. We already have suffered 3 years of sucking for nothing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BeastMode716Participant]

 I gave Phila fans grief for 3 or 4 years but deep down I knew the Bynum trade decimated that franchise.

The Doug Collins was running that organization from the coaching position & he did not give a damn. He pushed all their chips in on that Bynum deal – a deal he prob felt he HAd to make b/c he drafted Evan Turner over Boogie Cousins in the 2010 Draft & Collins gave up Nik Vucevik, Andre Igudola, Moe Harkless plus their 2015 & 2017 1st round draft picks.

And if that was not bad enough that Collins burned it to the ground &just rolled out when Bynum did not work out he signed 3 average players to long term max deals (Thad Young, Jru Holiday & Evan Turner) – paying Three 6’5” OK players like they are some All Star core was outrageous

Us picking Russell instead of Porzingus is our version of Evan Turner over Boogie Cousins. I like Ingram, of course Simmons was the pick at #1 but Ingram was Def the #2 pick there. But when you pick an Evan Turner or D’Angelo Russell at #2 & miss on a future All Star it just kills your franchise b/c you are playing catch up for Years….. I even wish we took Okafor. Okafor is no bust. He just scored 26 the other night like he just rolled out of bed & it was nothing. He’s terrible on Defense but Phila has no guards. If Okafor was playing behind Clarkson & Ingram who are much better defensively we would have Something to get excited about every night.

But back to my original point, When I Really take a deep look at what Hinkie did for Phila I would LUV that! Look at their 2017 Draft. They had No 2015 or 2017 1st round picks & Hinkie got Both picks back. Okafor was basically a free pick. And 2017 pick Orlando gave back to move up 2 spots in the 2014 Draft b/c Orlando wanted Elfrid Payton & the Sixers floated a rumor they were trading MCW & drafting Payton. I Still remember MCW being interviewed as it was happening & he looked Shocked when they asked him. And they end up getting Saric who they wanted all along anyway along w/ their 2017 pick back

Then they trade MCW anyway & get our pick which looks like it will be 2017. They fleece Sacramento for their 2019 1st round pick & a pic swap this year. They could Make the playoffs this year & they will Still have 2 Lottery picks b/c they have the King’s & Lakers picks.

Or how about this scenario that makes me want to throw up. What if we keep our pick this year & hopefully get a stud, but we still have a few years ahead of us in development. That Phila team Will be in the playoffs starung next year w/ Embiid & Simmons. What if we land the #1 pick in 2018 & have to hand it over to the Sixers who are in the playoffs & then Sacramento lands the #1 pick in 2019 b/c maybe Boogie leaves & they Also hand over the #1 pick to Phila.

It’s Insane how Hinkie has set up that Phila Franchise for Years. Bryan Colangelo prob just hangs at strip clubs & casinos b/c all he has to do is let it run on auto pilto & don’t screw it up. So would I trade 3 years of sucking for that? – Hell Yea. We already have suffered 3 years of sucking for nothing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[khaled_a_dParticipant]

Didn’t want o make a new thread for it but they have just suffered their biggest loss in franchise history against the Mavs,scored 73 points in the game which is less than what Kobe alone did at same day 11 years ago.
Things look ugly for them tbh after their good start

[no skillsParticipant]

not a laker fan but from what i see i think the lakers from front office to players with their history as a team setting their standards it puts them under so much pressure and that would be hard espically when you are in your early 20s. and the buss kids are trying to live up to their father and that is not alwaysgood ether. i think everyone needs to remember with the last two cba’s the rules are different and building the team is going to be different. there wont be as much winning so much for a few years. it will be painful for sure. reasonable expectations are needed. and maybe they need some new blood in the front office too? maybe i am wrong in this but its just what i see

[EndlessknightParticipant]

Have feeling the Lakers are going to hold Russell out for at least 2 weeks to increase their chances of retaining their own pick.

[Author]

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