Kobe or Lebron?
Just to throw it out there, the actual question being asked in the article was "Who's better right now: Kobe or LeBron?"
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Article: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-120119/nba-kobe-bryant-lebron...
LeBron is younger and more athletic.
The fact that a 33 year old Kobe in his 16th season is even making this an argument says something about just how good Kobe is.
When LeBron is 33 and in his 16th season, will he be anywhere as good as Kobe is right now? I highly doubt it... He's not skilled enough.
Kobe wasn't a very good team player in his prime. In my opinion LeBron James would get more wins then prime Kobe if you gave them the same team. LeBron can bring anyone to the playoffs, Kobe just ended up shooting a million times per game.
My dude above said Kobe was never as good as LeBron? Man, some people either are too young to remember or simply are obsessed with the present. Kobe is obviously a different player than LeBron but if he's still in the argument for being better, then why would you think an early to mid 20's Kobe wouldn't of been better than LeBron? Being a Philly fan I used to hate Kobe but ever since the Sixers lost AI (and in turn their ability to be relevant) I have really began to respect Kobe Bryant. Closest to MJ we might ever see so enjoy it while it lasts.
As The Game says, "you know a n**** that can score 81? Show me."
Kobe is the ultimate scorer don't get me wrong, Lebron just brings more to the table in terms of all around game, regardless if Kobe was in his prime or not, Kobe could not do what Lebron does all around on a consitent basis, regardless if he's 33,23,25,28 Kobe never could do it.
Lebron Took this team to the finals:
PG: Larry Hughes, Damon Jones, Eric Snow
SG: Sasha Pavlovic, Daniel Gibson
SF: Lebron James, Ira Newble
PF: Drew Gooden, Donyell Marshall
C: Zydrunas Illgauskas, Anderson Varejao, Scott Pollard.
Nuff Said
in 2006-2007.. the nba east is like D-league... detroit piston was first seed.. toronto was third seed... seriously man... the top 5 teams in the west all have better record than the second seeded cavs.. im pretty sure any team who made the playoff that year from the west could've beat cav in a 7 game series...
Yall can argue all yall want i'ma just drop this lil info on yall tho:
Lebron 9-2 vs Kobe ALLTIME while averaging 28, 7.6 boards and 7 assist
While Kobe averaging 28 points 6 boards 5.6 assist.
Don't bring the rings up or none of that other BS, this is Kobe vs BRON thread.
I'm going wit Bron 99/99 times
I hate when people try to make the "include so-and-so cuz he has X amount of rings" into a Kobe vs LeBron debate. Was steve kerr the best on his team when he won? How about horry? Or bruce bowen? Or Fisher? The list of dudes with a couple rings goes on and on, but the list of HOFers with multiple rings, let alone 5, does not go on and on.
your an idiot bra, Kobe couldn't do what Bron did with a wack ass team and that's lead them to the NBA FINALS, Kobe has won rings i'm never going to take that away from him, but he did have Shaq,Pau Gasol,Odom, etc to help him get the rings.
When Kobe was by himself he couldn't even take the Lakers to the finals let alone not even the PLAYOFFS! HAHA suck on that sucka.
"in 2006-2007.. the nba east is like D-league... detroit piston was first seed.. toronto was third seed... seriously man... the top 5 teams in the west all have better record than the second seeded cavs.. im pretty sure any team who made the playoff that year from the west could've beat cav in a 7 game series.."
Excuses. The Lakers had a similarly terrible roster that year I believe, and they didn't challenge for the Finals. The Cavs roster was TERRIBLE individually that year and they got to the Finals. The East was not weak enough that year to justify the Cavs going to the Finals with how subpar the talent was on that team.
IS that you Chris Broussard? Don't worry, J.A. won't take your promotion..........he already has, do you think they'd let you be an analyst just because?
And about the topic, yeah, a 33 year old Kobe isn't the best player in the NBA, but so what? He's still hella gopod, adn if you guys are gonna keep you're eyes on Lebron and Kobe, you guys are going to be missing the real star, Eddy Curry! He just got activated, and I think he'll put up 16 and 8 some point in the season.
When Kobe was by himself he had like a 34 win season and 5th place in the divison. Lebron was by himeself in cleveland like the whole time and still put up 50-60 win seasons. You put Kobe on the worst team in the league and they get better, but not automatically a playoff team and champion contender. Put Lebron on a team with 40 year old free agents and they still win 50 games.
Lebron puts up better numbers all across the board other than scoring. But id still take Kobe. Kobe is better when the games on the line and has proven to be much more of a winner than Lebron. Kobe's ability to take over games late in the 4th with his scoring and playmaking is what puts him over and ahead of Lebron imo.
Saying LeBron took a scrub team to the Finals is like saying "I got her in my room but she wasn't tryna fcuk" you aint get the psusy and LeBron has no rings at the end of they day its all about who got the most rings and Kobe has more than every other teams best player combined do think so. Lets do some math
Atlanta- Joe Johnson 0
Boston- Rajon Rondo 1
Charlotte- "Fat" Boris Diaw 0
Chicago- Derrick Rose 0
Cleveland- Kyrie Irving 0
Dallas- Dirk Nowitski 1
Denver- Ty Lawson 0
Detroit- Greg Monroe 0
Golden State- Stephen Curry 0
Houston- Luis Scola 0
Indiana- Danny Granger 0
Los Angeles- Chris Paul 0
Memphis- Rudy Gay 0
Minnesota- Kevin Love 0
Miami- LeBron James 0
Milwaukee- Brandon Jennings 0
New Jersey- Deron Williams 0
New Orleans- Eric Gordon 0
New York- Carmelo Anthony 0
Oklahoma City- Kevin Durant 0
Orlando- Dwight Howard 0
Philadelphia- Andre Igoudala 0
Phoenix- Steve Nash 0
Portland- Lamarcus Aldridge 0
Sacramento- Tyreke Evans 0
San Antonio- Tony Parker 3
Utah- Al Jefferson 0
Toronto- Andrea Bargnani 0
Washington- John Wall 0
Thats 5 rings between each teams best player excluding the Lakers. Kobe has 5 himself.......nuff said
/thread
When Kobe is on a team lacking talent, he knows it and doesnt trust his teammates. He takes every shot and doesnt create for his teammates. He is a great scorer, but Lebron almost matches him in that, while shooting a higher percentage, more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, sets up his teammates more and just makes teammates better.
apb540 - Yes, trying to stuff Kerr, Horry, etc. into the list is idiocy. However, your argument isn't complete either.
Kobe was not the obvious best player on his team for four of his rings. Many people believe Shaq was the most dominant player in the NBA during Kobe's early finals runs. And Pau was the best player on the Lakers for many of the playoff games during Kobe's last run.
Obviously everyone has help winning a ring and Kobe's proven himself as someone who can, when paired with a dominant big, win it all--LBJ has not proven capable of winning it all under any condition yet. Additionally, Kobe scoring 81 from the wing is a feat that LBJ will never touch (maybe no one will). Kobe is probably the most skilled scorer in history. However, LBJ has his virtues too. He can do many things that Kobe will never do. His floor vision is at a level Kobe has never seen. LBJ has also done far more w/less than Kobe has. You could put LBJ on absolutely any scrub team and he'd lead them to the playoffs. Kobe has demonstrated that he probably requires a dominant post presence on his team or his team will flounder.
That "getting her to the room and not smashing" example sucked, let me tell you why:
If Lebron didn't get her to the room, then Kobe got denied the number to even have mutual interest. Kobe's team was just as bad as Lebron's in a bunch of ways, and when Kobe played on those teams they were never a serious title contender. Lebron got a low quality team to the Finals. I have NEVER seen Kobe do that before. Not to slight him, because he is the most skilled player in the NBA and has been for a long time, but he is not a better player than Lebron. Saying he's better because he is more clutch is silly to me. I think Carmelo Anthony is more clutch than Lebron. I even think D.Wade is more clutch. I think Lebron is better than both. Lebron has played on a title contention worthy squad for a 1 year and some change, let's just wait and see how many titles they get before we say Kobe is better because of rings. Kobe has played about 8 more seasons than Lebron has as well, so that should be taken into account
As good as they both are, LeBron is able to make bad players look good and turn them into a winning team, when Kobe is on a bad team, he doesn't trust any of them and makes it a one man show, however when Kobe is surrounded by good players that have a knack for winning, Kobe is capable of anything, LeBron is capable of anything, but not at Kobe's level yet, and i think Kobe benefited from playing 2nd string to Shaq and helped his career, LeBron has always been the guy, he's only learning it now how to get to Kobe's level.
LeBron is a hell of a lot better when it comes to making his teamates better players, but Kobe looks better when he's surrounded by talent to sum it up.
Lebron beat the pistons with Billups, Prince, Rasheed, and Hamilton (core 4 players from the team that won a championship against the kobe, Shaq, Malone, and payton lakers) with larry huges, eric snow, daniel gibson, and ilgauskaus. Think about that. I know Malone and Payton were no where near their primes, but still. Kobe played almost that exact same team and lost with much better talent.
nbanflguy, your sole argument for lebron is better than kobe is that lebron led a horrible team to the nba final, and kobe couldnt do the same. It seems like you are basing everything off one year's accomplishment. What about all the other years? All the years when he had better role players, and still he could not win. What about last year? He had Wade and Bosh. Your argument is too one-sided.
Having said that, I do believe Lebron is the better player now. Lebron is just too physically gifted and is skilled enough to be almost unstoppable if he chooses to. I agree with the fact that James produces amazing numbers and makes everyone around him better. Lebron, however, will never be considered to be equal to the likes of Kobe, Jordan, or any all time great because he lacks the killer instinct and competitive edge.
Also, like what Indianabasketball said, Kobe is already 33 and in his 16th season! The fact that people are still debating this just shows you how great of a player Kobe is.
Two different players, which means both players need certain kind of players around them to be successful.
The Cleveland teams didn't have big names, etc but they had players that fit LeBron's strengths. Similar to those 76ers teams with Allen Iverson. He was surrounded by shooters, role players, rebounders, etc. They all were content with their roles while LeBron dominated the ball. LeBron put up the numbers, while everyone else was content with their roles. The funny thing about those Cleveland teams was that people always said they had the best team in the NBA until they LOST... Then it was "LeBron's supporting cast is garbage."
I just don't really think the argument that LeBron took a "garbage" team to the Finals is a legit reason why he's better than Kobe.
IF you just look at both players and majority of aspects of *basketball* Kobe is better in my opinion. Kobe has more of a complete game in my opinion and really has no real weaknesses in his game at BOTH sides of the floor. This is why that even at an old age, he's still having so much success.
You think LeBron trusted his teammates in Cleveland when he dribbled the ball for 22 seconds and then passed it out to them with 2 seconds to shoot? And then when they missed, they got blamed for being a bad supporting cast?
They're two different players... LeBron is a passer, Kobe is a scorer. Most of the time, Kobe is going to look to score the ball because that's what he does. However, let's not act like he hasn't made key passes to win games. Obviously that is something he struggled with early on, but I think that is something he's improved as his career progressed.
I admit last year, he did pretty much choke in the 4th quarter, but everyone is acting like Kobe has never lost an NBA finals series. I dont know how you can blame Lebron for the playoff losses with the cavs. He did always step up in the playoffs, the cavs never really matched up with the Magic in 08 or Celtics in 09 and just were really not even a decent team other than Lebron. Its not like they got blown out either, he did make it close pretty much by himself.
Lebron is still only like 27 and he will win his fair share of rings.
I would not say he lacks the killer instinct or competitive edge. You dont become the type of player he is without those. He DID have those for sure in his younger years and their is no doubt in my mind he will show them again.
I have never seen a player put the team on his back, like Lebron did when scoring 29 of his teams last 30 points against the Pistons. That WAS killer instinct.
I don't get it...
Cleveland had the BEST record in the NBA the year they lost to the Magic and Boston... People were picking them as the favorites to win the title and saying they had the best team in the league.
Then when they lose, they had a bad supporting cast. Or that they didn't match up... Or some other excuse.
I have never seen a great player get the excuses that LeBron gets.
Yes, LeBron always trusted his teammates. People always got so mad when he passed up game winning shots to his wide open teammates (who then missed). Is that not trust? I'm sure someone would say he did that out of fear, but that's a copout. He made a good basketball play and take a bad rap for it. I haven't even said who I think is better, but let's not act like Kobe has been anywhere near the teammate LeBron has been. Kobe ALWAYS takes the last shot, whether he's triple teamed or not (usually not a good b-ball play) and the last great clutch pass he made was probably that oop to Shaq in Portland.When it comes to building a team around one guy, LeBron is the only choice. Who was/is the better basketball player? Well we're still arguing so obviously it's not clear.
That's all fair... That LeBron made a "good basketball play", but he did the SAME THING during last year's Finals and D. Wade yelled at him on the court because LeBron didn't take the shot... Instead choosing to pass the ball to someone else at the end of the shot clock.
LeBron has had clutch moments, but he's notorious for shrinking in the clutch and not being as aggressive as he should be. That is a fact.
The thing that bugs me about Kobe is some of his clutch shot selection. I am all for having the best player on the team take the final shot, but i dont believe in taking a stupid, triple covered, off balanced, no way in hell this is going in, kinda shot just cuz your the best player. I have seen Kobe doing this numerous times.
Lebron gives up some shots to wide open teammates that they SHOULD make. He makes the smart basketball play
To each is own... Because I don't think LeBron's clutch shot selection is all that great either.
He's either taking a long three or being predictable and driving right into the teeth of the defense. I also don't like the fact LeBron has 50% confidence when on the line in the clutch.
Hint: If you pick Kobe, you're wrong.
...and if this is your argument...
J.A. Adande, ESPN.com: Kobe. LeBron can do more things, but Kobe is the one who seems willing to do anything to win. Kobe also is better at one specific thing: hitting the shots he takes the most. He's making 48 percent of his midrange shots; LeBron, 42 percent.
...you probably shouldn't be covering the NBA.