[mookieParticipant]

It’s obvious to every basketball fan that in these playoffs Lebron wasn’t his tradtional self.  He put up monster numbers and carried his team on his back the entire playoffs, specifically the finals.  As the series progressed I started to think…what if Kobe was on this Cavs team starting with Delli, Shumpert, TT and Mozgov. Would the Cavs won this series or at least force a game 7?  This team is exactly the type of team Kobe needs and the type of scenario that Kobe salivates for.  He’d be able to shoot 40 times a game.  He’d leave all the "dirty" work to TT and Mozgov while getting them invovled here and there offensively like normally does.  Lebron missed the game 1 winner that would’ve changed the entire series.  Lebron wore down at the end of almost every game in the finals.  I know it’s becuase he basically had to do everything for the Cavs but Kobe to my knowledge has never worn down in a game.  I’m not sayin Lebron didn’t play one of the greatest finals ever, as a matter of fact I think he was the MVP of the finals even though he lost, but I think the Cavs in the finals was was built for a healthy Kobe.  I mean lebron was bigger than any of starter the warriors played the last few games.  The Cavs team was bigger at pretty much every position.  Lebron is a great player but would the results woulda been different with Kobe on the Cavs?  Any thoughts?  

[KingslayerParticipant]

 I hate getting involved in these Kobe/Lebron/MJ/etc arguments but this is absurd. Kobe played on a team with this type of talent before, and they missed the playoffs each time. Lebron pretty much singlehandedly led the Cavs to take 2 games out of 6 with the worst supporting cast in the history of the NBA finals.  Let’s not kid oursleves into thinking Mozgov/Thompson/Smith/Shumpert are any more than average starters/good role players. And bless Delly’s fighting heart but he is a fringe NBA talent. They were playing a 6-7 man rotation against one of the deepest and most talented teams of this generation, and made it competitive until their legs had nothing left to give.

Kobe is an all-time talent and one of the top 10 players ever, but Lebron is simply on another level. He rubs a lot of people the wrong way with his ego, including myself at times, but he is by far the most valuable basketball player I’ve ever seen. He carried awful Cavs rosters to 50 and 60 win seasons, led Miami to 2 championships over stacked OKC and Spurs squads, and lost last year in the most amazing display of basketball i’ve seen from a team (gotta love Pop). The Cavs had no business making the NBA finals playing without Love throughout the playoffs and without Irving for much of the ECF, let alone taking 2 games from the Warriors.

LBJ is the best player on the floor whether he plays the 1,2,3, or 4 (and probably Center too). He is one of, if not the most impressive athletic specimen in the history of the game. He is an elite scorer, passer and team defender, excelling at every single aspect of the game. There has never been a player like him. The GOAT talk is premature, but it is exciting to think that we may be watching the greatest player ever once it’s all said and done (hence all the ridiculous hype). 

 

 

[KingslayerParticipant]

 I hate getting involved in these Kobe/Lebron/MJ/etc arguments but this is absurd. Kobe played on a team with this type of talent before, and they missed the playoffs each time. Lebron pretty much singlehandedly led the Cavs to take 2 games out of 6 with the worst supporting cast in the history of the NBA finals.  Let’s not kid oursleves into thinking Mozgov/Thompson/Smith/Shumpert are any more than average starters/good role players. And bless Delly’s fighting heart but he is a fringe NBA talent. They were playing a 6-7 man rotation against one of the deepest and most talented teams of this generation, and made it competitive until their legs had nothing left to give.

Kobe is an all-time talent and one of the top 10 players ever, but Lebron is simply on another level. He rubs a lot of people the wrong way with his ego, including myself at times, but he is by far the most valuable basketball player I’ve ever seen. He carried awful Cavs rosters to 50 and 60 win seasons, led Miami to 2 championships over stacked OKC and Spurs squads, and lost last year in the most amazing display of basketball i’ve seen from a team (gotta love Pop). The Cavs had no business making the NBA finals playing without Love throughout the playoffs and without Irving for much of the ECF, let alone taking 2 games from the Warriors.

LBJ is the best player on the floor whether he plays the 1,2,3, or 4 (and probably Center too). He is one of, if not the most impressive athletic specimen in the history of the game. He is an elite scorer, passer and team defender, excelling at every single aspect of the game. There has never been a player like him. The GOAT talk is premature, but it is exciting to think that we may be watching the greatest player ever once it’s all said and done (hence all the ridiculous hype). 

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Please you act like Lebron got them there by himself.  He lost Love in a closeout game and Irving in game 1 of the finals.  In an absolutely terrible Eastern conference.  Kobe’s team missed the playoffs each time?  Kobe’s team missed the playoffs once his entire career while he was actually playing, I dont think you can count these past two years when he was hurt the majority of the time.  So really he missed the playoffs one year, and the following year his team took the top ranked Suns to a game 7, in which they actually led the series 3-1 before choking it away. A Suns team that would destory this Cavs team.  

I can’t believe how how the historically weak East gets dismissed when talking about Lebrons "Greatness".  Lebron has had to beat 6 50 win teams in the playoffs in his career to accumulate the success (or Finals failures when he finally has to play a decent team in the playoffs.) while Kobe beat 24.  Their paths to their success aren’t even comparable.  

Somehow it’s always how Lebrons team wasn’t good that is the narrative, never how crappy the teams were that he played to get to where he was.  If he had spent his career in the West how many finals appearances does he even have??  2?  All you can really argue are the years that he won and who really knows if he had to play teams that beat each other up with skill en route to get there like the teams that he beat.  

It’s time Lebron starts facing the same critiques about his career that other sueprstars have to.  Yet he always gets a pass because somehow his team can never live up to the chosen ones expectations.  

I’m not going to argue that Kobe is a better player than Lebron.  Lebron might be the best individual player that I have ever seen in some sense.  But that doesn’t mean that he will have the better career, or more success which are things that need to be taken into consideration. 

Bottom line is at some point you have to quit blaming Lebrons teammates as being poor for the reason he doesn’t win, and start to look at the fact that those teammates you call so poor aren’t as poor as you think considering the teams they had to play to get there.  

Simply put it’s recency bias.  Completely expected from most humans.  Ones who can put it aside can say yes we are seeing an absolutely great individual player… but we are not seeing a great winner and yes it’s a fact that his teams aren’t very good, but it’s also a fact that perhaps the only reason he is even getting to the Finals is because the teams he is playing against are even worse.  

Lebron had 2 top 10 players on his team in their primes… I don’t care what you think about Bosh, when they combined forces he was a top 10 player.  Did Kobe ever play with 2 top 10 players???  In the significantly weaker conference???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Please you act like Lebron got them there by himself.  He lost Love in a closeout game and Irving in game 1 of the finals.  In an absolutely terrible Eastern conference.  Kobe’s team missed the playoffs each time?  Kobe’s team missed the playoffs once his entire career while he was actually playing, I dont think you can count these past two years when he was hurt the majority of the time.  So really he missed the playoffs one year, and the following year his team took the top ranked Suns to a game 7, in which they actually led the series 3-1 before choking it away. A Suns team that would destory this Cavs team.  

I can’t believe how how the historically weak East gets dismissed when talking about Lebrons "Greatness".  Lebron has had to beat 6 50 win teams in the playoffs in his career to accumulate the success (or Finals failures when he finally has to play a decent team in the playoffs.) while Kobe beat 24.  Their paths to their success aren’t even comparable.  

Somehow it’s always how Lebrons team wasn’t good that is the narrative, never how crappy the teams were that he played to get to where he was.  If he had spent his career in the West how many finals appearances does he even have??  2?  All you can really argue are the years that he won and who really knows if he had to play teams that beat each other up with skill en route to get there like the teams that he beat.  

It’s time Lebron starts facing the same critiques about his career that other sueprstars have to.  Yet he always gets a pass because somehow his team can never live up to the chosen ones expectations.  

I’m not going to argue that Kobe is a better player than Lebron.  Lebron might be the best individual player that I have ever seen in some sense.  But that doesn’t mean that he will have the better career, or more success which are things that need to be taken into consideration. 

Bottom line is at some point you have to quit blaming Lebrons teammates as being poor for the reason he doesn’t win, and start to look at the fact that those teammates you call so poor aren’t as poor as you think considering the teams they had to play to get there.  

Simply put it’s recency bias.  Completely expected from most humans.  Ones who can put it aside can say yes we are seeing an absolutely great individual player… but we are not seeing a great winner and yes it’s a fact that his teams aren’t very good, but it’s also a fact that perhaps the only reason he is even getting to the Finals is because the teams he is playing against are even worse.  

Lebron had 2 top 10 players on his team in their primes… I don’t care what you think about Bosh, when they combined forces he was a top 10 player.  Did Kobe ever play with 2 top 10 players???  In the significantly weaker conference???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mookieParticipant]

If it weren’t for ESPN labeling Lebron he wouldn’t be in talks for the being the GOAT. He’s a great athlete playing basketball.  He flops alot, can’t finish games, chokes in crucial mintues.  Had he fininished the games in the finals this year the way he started Cavs win this series.  Yeah he did alot but he dominates the ball offensively.  He coulda literally posted up every time he got the ball.  No 1 person could stop him.  But he didn’t.  He throws up monster stats cuz he is the most gifted athlete to be playing in the NBA..maybe ever.  But skill wise there is a huge disparity between him and the greatest players of all time. He has horrible footwork in the post and uses his off arm to clear out almost every play.  I’m not taking away from his game but if he had the basketball skills of a Kobe or MJ we aren’t having this discussion.  The point I was trying to make is that in this years finals I think if you put Kobe on the CAVS we might have a different story.  Oh and Kobe played in the west when he had those garbage teams.  Come on man he played in the west and went to the playoffs twice with Kwame brown, smush parker, devean george, chris mihm, and odom.  Odom was the only other guy on that team worth being in the NBA.  TT was offered 52 million before the season started…he’s always been a solid starter. Shump and JR are also solid starters in their own right.

I’m not talking about what lebron accomplished in his career…i’m simply talking about this years finals when saying the series might’ve been different if you put a healthy kobe on the cavs instead of lebron.

 

 

 

[mookieParticipant]

If it weren’t for ESPN labeling Lebron he wouldn’t be in talks for the being the GOAT. He’s a great athlete playing basketball.  He flops alot, can’t finish games, chokes in crucial mintues.  Had he fininished the games in the finals this year the way he started Cavs win this series.  Yeah he did alot but he dominates the ball offensively.  He coulda literally posted up every time he got the ball.  No 1 person could stop him.  But he didn’t.  He throws up monster stats cuz he is the most gifted athlete to be playing in the NBA..maybe ever.  But skill wise there is a huge disparity between him and the greatest players of all time. He has horrible footwork in the post and uses his off arm to clear out almost every play.  I’m not taking away from his game but if he had the basketball skills of a Kobe or MJ we aren’t having this discussion.  The point I was trying to make is that in this years finals I think if you put Kobe on the CAVS we might have a different story.  Oh and Kobe played in the west when he had those garbage teams.  Come on man he played in the west and went to the playoffs twice with Kwame brown, smush parker, devean george, chris mihm, and odom.  Odom was the only other guy on that team worth being in the NBA.  TT was offered 52 million before the season started…he’s always been a solid starter. Shump and JR are also solid starters in their own right.

I’m not talking about what lebron accomplished in his career…i’m simply talking about this years finals when saying the series might’ve been different if you put a healthy kobe on the cavs instead of lebron.

 

 

 

[froggyParticipant]

While I’m not part of his supporting cast for GOAT, I do not think that Kobe would have done better. Lebron in indeed a team player and made the entire team look better. I’ve never seen Kobe doing that.

I’m pretty sure that Lebron would excel in a team with high basketball IQ players instead of "big three" teams – whereas I think that Kobe is more fit for "big three" (or "very big two" with Shaq).  

Lebron might be the most skilled basketball player we’ve seen, but lacks killer instinct, charisma, and I even think he lacks a real arch-nemesis to be labeled best all time player. 

 

[froggyParticipant]

While I’m not part of his supporting cast for GOAT, I do not think that Kobe would have done better. Lebron in indeed a team player and made the entire team look better. I’ve never seen Kobe doing that.

I’m pretty sure that Lebron would excel in a team with high basketball IQ players instead of "big three" teams – whereas I think that Kobe is more fit for "big three" (or "very big two" with Shaq).  

Lebron might be the most skilled basketball player we’ve seen, but lacks killer instinct, charisma, and I even think he lacks a real arch-nemesis to be labeled best all time player. 

 

[ThepessimestParticipant]

 I’m not a Kobe guy. I prefer Lebron to Kobe in regards to players; however, while I agree there is no way Kobe could win with the current roster Lebron was forced to play with it must be said that Kobe has consistently won when he had talent in terms of championships. Lebron had talent in Miami and if not for a Ray Allen 3 would only have 1 ring in 4 years with Miami. But he won so he won 2 and lost 2 with Wade and Bosh to help. 

That’s all….

Something to think about.

 

 

[ThepessimestParticipant]

 I’m not a Kobe guy. I prefer Lebron to Kobe in regards to players; however, while I agree there is no way Kobe could win with the current roster Lebron was forced to play with it must be said that Kobe has consistently won when he had talent in terms of championships. Lebron had talent in Miami and if not for a Ray Allen 3 would only have 1 ring in 4 years with Miami. But he won so he won 2 and lost 2 with Wade and Bosh to help. 

That’s all….

Something to think about.

 

 

[ballislyfe25Participant]

Those Lakers teams in the mid-2000’s were awful. Worse than the Cavs we saw in the Finals. The fact that Kobe got those teams into the playoffs and won games (in the West) against the Suns is impressive in its own right. LeBron has won the East 7 times but Kobe has won the West 7 times and there is simply no comparison in the level of their respective conferences over the years. 

[ballislyfe25Participant]

Those Lakers teams in the mid-2000’s were awful. Worse than the Cavs we saw in the Finals. The fact that Kobe got those teams into the playoffs and won games (in the West) against the Suns is impressive in its own right. LeBron has won the East 7 times but Kobe has won the West 7 times and there is simply no comparison in the level of their respective conferences over the years. 

[AwardedBallerParticipant]

 Why do people keep using this :what if Ray Allen hadn’t hit the 3 logic?" What if Robert Horry never hit that 3 versus Sac? Or if Steve Kerr hadn’t hit the 3 in game 6 of ’97? These hypothetical’s are ridicoulous, the bottom line is they did make these shots, people speak as if the Heat were handed the game 7, they still had to play you know?

 

As said previously, the 2011 loss was on LeBron no doubt, no excuses. But to blame him in 2013 is a bit wild. As he did all that he could do where as 2/3 of his big 3 averaged 15 and 14 respectively. 

It’s a bit irritating to me that we can never see LeBron utilized to full effect due to coaching incapabilities and always sometype of issue with the talent surrounding him.

 

 

 

[AwardedBallerParticipant]

 Why do people keep using this :what if Ray Allen hadn’t hit the 3 logic?" What if Robert Horry never hit that 3 versus Sac? Or if Steve Kerr hadn’t hit the 3 in game 6 of ’97? These hypothetical’s are ridicoulous, the bottom line is they did make these shots, people speak as if the Heat were handed the game 7, they still had to play you know?

 

As said previously, the 2011 loss was on LeBron no doubt, no excuses. But to blame him in 2013 is a bit wild. As he did all that he could do where as 2/3 of his big 3 averaged 15 and 14 respectively. 

It’s a bit irritating to me that we can never see LeBron utilized to full effect due to coaching incapabilities and always sometype of issue with the talent surrounding him.

 

 

 

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