[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 First of all I would like to say I was completely against the Wiggins for Love trade. Anyways, what’s the trade value for love and if you were David Griffin what kind of player would you be going after..

[zcnumerounoParticipant]

Right now, a team like the Celtics could get him for pennies on the dollar… His trade value for Cleveland right now is probably at its lowest point.

Anyways, if I were Cleveland, I’d want to trade him for a 3-and-D small forward. Just like with the Heat, I think LeBron’s best spot is at power forward going forward. Plus, the Cavs need more two-way players – not just specialists.

[zcnumerounoParticipant]

Right now, a team like the Celtics could get him for pennies on the dollar… His trade value for Cleveland right now is probably at its lowest point.

Anyways, if I were Cleveland, I’d want to trade him for a 3-and-D small forward. Just like with the Heat, I think LeBron’s best spot is at power forward going forward. Plus, the Cavs need more two-way players – not just specialists.

[juves4783Participant]

well, i don’t think very many teams want a stretch 4 that can’t defend other stretch 4’s at a price of $21-25M a year for the next 4 years.  especially since the nba’s "small ball" strategy is evolving every year.  maybe the lakers would take him off their hands but pf is probably one of the few positions that they have depth with randle and nance.

 

 

 

[juves4783Participant]

well, i don’t think very many teams want a stretch 4 that can’t defend other stretch 4’s at a price of $21-25M a year for the next 4 years.  especially since the nba’s "small ball" strategy is evolving every year.  maybe the lakers would take him off their hands but pf is probably one of the few positions that they have depth with randle and nance.

 

 

 

[TRC1991Participant]

 Decent player on bad teams, huge defensive liability. His contract is almost un-tradable. 

[TRC1991Participant]

 Decent player on bad teams, huge defensive liability. His contract is almost un-tradable. 

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 Kevin Love for Terrence Jones and Patrick Beverly. D’antoni and Morey might just be stupid enough to do this trade. 

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 Kevin Love for Terrence Jones and Patrick Beverly. D’antoni and Morey might just be stupid enough to do this trade. 

[machu46Participant]

I think Love’s value is probably much higher than a lot of people online will believe.  At the end of the day, he’s still:

1. An efficient 18ish PPG scorer per 36 minutes (in a diminished role no less)

2. A 10-11 rebound per game guy per 36 minutes

3. One of the best passing big men in the league

4. A PF that can stretch the defense

He’s still a borderline all-star.  The idea that you’ll get him for pennies on the dollar is probably off-base.  Obviously they wouldn’t get someone like Wiggins back for him like Minnesota did when they originally traded him, but I’d expect they could still get a pick from the 3-10 range this year + another piece if they choose to move him.  Or if they don’t want a pick in return, they could get an established borderline all-star if the right team is interested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anton123Participant]

By ‘efficient’ do you mean his 42% from the field during the regular season or his 39% from the field during the playoffs? His 35% from inside the arc on 7.2 attempts a game is actually shockingly inefficient.

The guy has actually been an inefficient offensive player who can’t defend a lick for the past two years, under two different coaches as well. 

The only way a team can be good with him is if he plays next to a great defensive center in an offensive system that fits him. Can’t think of a team that has the cap space and roster to be willing to take Love. He may be a borderline all-star, but this borderline all-star is set to be making 26 million in 2020.

[machu46Participant]

I’m referring to his 55.3% TS%. 27 players in the NBA had both a higher scoring average and higher TS% than him.  And among big men, that number shrinks to 7.  That’s pretty damn good company.

And in a league where a guy like Dion Waiters is rumored to be set to earn around $17 million next year (with the way contracts generally increase as they go on, he’ll probably be getting over $20 million by 2020), paying a guy that can actually be an all-star $26 million (and we’re talking about $21 million next year for Love) isn’t bad at all.

 

[Anton123Participant]

Is it really good company though? He is 139th in true shooting percentage even though he doesn’t have to force anything and shoots a lot of open threes. Paul George and Russell Westbrook have higher TS% than him.

Having 7 big men who score more than you in a more efficient way is actually pretty bad if you are supposed to be an elite offensive player. 

I’m not trying to bash Love, I think I’ve done enough of that already, it’s just that your argumentation puzzles me.

 

 

[machu46Participant]

The argument is pretty simple.  Relative to big men, Love is still one of the best scorers, rebounders, and passers in the league.  The idea that he doesn’t have trade value is silly.

 

[machu46Participant]

The argument is pretty simple.  Relative to big men, Love is still one of the best scorers, rebounders, and passers in the league.  The idea that he doesn’t have trade value is silly.

 

[Anton123Participant]

Is it really good company though? He is 139th in true shooting percentage even though he doesn’t have to force anything and shoots a lot of open threes. Paul George and Russell Westbrook have higher TS% than him.

Having 7 big men who score more than you in a more efficient way is actually pretty bad if you are supposed to be an elite offensive player. 

I’m not trying to bash Love, I think I’ve done enough of that already, it’s just that your argumentation puzzles me.

 

 

[machu46Participant]

I’m referring to his 55.3% TS%. 27 players in the NBA had both a higher scoring average and higher TS% than him.  And among big men, that number shrinks to 7.  That’s pretty damn good company.

And in a league where a guy like Dion Waiters is rumored to be set to earn around $17 million next year (with the way contracts generally increase as they go on, he’ll probably be getting over $20 million by 2020), paying a guy that can actually be an all-star $26 million (and we’re talking about $21 million next year for Love) isn’t bad at all.

 

[Anton123Participant]

By ‘efficient’ do you mean his 42% from the field during the regular season or his 39% from the field during the playoffs? His 35% from inside the arc on 7.2 attempts a game is actually shockingly inefficient.

The guy has actually been an inefficient offensive player who can’t defend a lick for the past two years, under two different coaches as well. 

The only way a team can be good with him is if he plays next to a great defensive center in an offensive system that fits him. Can’t think of a team that has the cap space and roster to be willing to take Love. He may be a borderline all-star, but this borderline all-star is set to be making 26 million in 2020.

[machu46Participant]

I think Love’s value is probably much higher than a lot of people online will believe.  At the end of the day, he’s still:

1. An efficient 18ish PPG scorer per 36 minutes (in a diminished role no less)

2. A 10-11 rebound per game guy per 36 minutes

3. One of the best passing big men in the league

4. A PF that can stretch the defense

He’s still a borderline all-star.  The idea that you’ll get him for pennies on the dollar is probably off-base.  Obviously they wouldn’t get someone like Wiggins back for him like Minnesota did when they originally traded him, but I’d expect they could still get a pick from the 3-10 range this year + another piece if they choose to move him.  Or if they don’t want a pick in return, they could get an established borderline all-star if the right team is interested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Cleveland paid Thompson, who while limited, will be the new age Reggie Evans if that is what they want. They also have Channing Frye on pretty big money for another couple years. If they don’t deal Love, they have $44 million in power forwards. Someone has to go. Everyone knows this. Love’s perceived value is not as high as it many perceived it to be when he was in Minnesota and finishing tenth in the West. I think Cleveland was always going to win Game 3. I thought the embarassment of Game 2 and the return home would carry them. I’m not sure about Games 4 or 5, which would not exactly cast Love in the best light given that he will be returning (and it wouldn’t be fair if it plays out like that). Still, I think there will be interest. They won’t have cap room, but I can see plenty of teams who might see one of their free agents leave be amenable to taking Love in a sign-and-trade. I think if LeBron plays GM and tries to work a deal for one or two of his guys, I think Kyrie and Love would have to be moved in order to faciliate. I don’t think anyone would touch Frye, Shumpert, or Thompson’s deals. Specifics are hard right now, because I don’t imagine teams are inclined to help a top four team in the league get even better. Once they see one of their guys look elsewhere, things will change.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Cleveland paid Thompson, who while limited, will be the new age Reggie Evans if that is what they want. They also have Channing Frye on pretty big money for another couple years. If they don’t deal Love, they have $44 million in power forwards. Someone has to go. Everyone knows this. Love’s perceived value is not as high as it many perceived it to be when he was in Minnesota and finishing tenth in the West. I think Cleveland was always going to win Game 3. I thought the embarassment of Game 2 and the return home would carry them. I’m not sure about Games 4 or 5, which would not exactly cast Love in the best light given that he will be returning (and it wouldn’t be fair if it plays out like that). Still, I think there will be interest. They won’t have cap room, but I can see plenty of teams who might see one of their free agents leave be amenable to taking Love in a sign-and-trade. I think if LeBron plays GM and tries to work a deal for one or two of his guys, I think Kyrie and Love would have to be moved in order to faciliate. I don’t think anyone would touch Frye, Shumpert, or Thompson’s deals. Specifics are hard right now, because I don’t imagine teams are inclined to help a top four team in the league get even better. Once they see one of their guys look elsewhere, things will change.

[Untouchable JParticipant]

The interesting thing about cap space is there’s a couple teams that are just never gonna sign a big name regardless of how much money they have. So imo those are the teams in play.

Portland, Charlotte, Toronto, NO, Kings, Pacers, Suns, Denver

Of those, New Orleans, Kings, Charlotte, Pacers, Toronto have no viable scenarios.

Boston- Love for some combo of Crowder/Bradley/Amir

Portland- Love for some combo of Harkless/Aminu/Crabbe

Denver- Assets, but its a rebuild, no sense to sign Love

Suns- Love for Brandon Knight and PJ Tukcer/Teletovic.  Makes sense for both imo.

Cavs: Kyrie, JR, Tucker, Bron, Thompson. Knight off the bench

Suns: Bledose, Murray, Booker, Love, Len…thats a modern, fan friendly shooting squad

[NZBennyParticipant]

I think the Kings would probably be willing to be a trade partner, although they would need to find a third team. Given that they are desperate to be competitive and keep Cousins, I could see them going all in for a star like Love. If they can find a team with a decent 3 and D three who will take part in the trade for a pick or two, I could see them parting with their first this year (to the third team) as well as WCS and a future 1st to the Cavs for Love. The Cavs would then get the 3 and Love. While the media would brutalise this trade because they are losing a star for spare parts, I think it is the sort of move that would make the team so much better. A good athletic shooter would let LeBron play the 4 more or less full time, and WCS could develop into the archetypal modern complementary 5 who plays D, switches all over the floor and can finish inside

[NZBennyParticipant]

I think the Kings would probably be willing to be a trade partner, although they would need to find a third team. Given that they are desperate to be competitive and keep Cousins, I could see them going all in for a star like Love. If they can find a team with a decent 3 and D three who will take part in the trade for a pick or two, I could see them parting with their first this year (to the third team) as well as WCS and a future 1st to the Cavs for Love. The Cavs would then get the 3 and Love. While the media would brutalise this trade because they are losing a star for spare parts, I think it is the sort of move that would make the team so much better. A good athletic shooter would let LeBron play the 4 more or less full time, and WCS could develop into the archetypal modern complementary 5 who plays D, switches all over the floor and can finish inside

[Untouchable JParticipant]

The interesting thing about cap space is there’s a couple teams that are just never gonna sign a big name regardless of how much money they have. So imo those are the teams in play.

Portland, Charlotte, Toronto, NO, Kings, Pacers, Suns, Denver

Of those, New Orleans, Kings, Charlotte, Pacers, Toronto have no viable scenarios.

Boston- Love for some combo of Crowder/Bradley/Amir

Portland- Love for some combo of Harkless/Aminu/Crabbe

Denver- Assets, but its a rebuild, no sense to sign Love

Suns- Love for Brandon Knight and PJ Tukcer/Teletovic.  Makes sense for both imo.

Cavs: Kyrie, JR, Tucker, Bron, Thompson. Knight off the bench

Suns: Bledose, Murray, Booker, Love, Len…thats a modern, fan friendly shooting squad

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

Usually, top contenders don’t trade with each other.

I kinda like this trade though:

Kevin Love and Sashsa Kaun to OKC for Serge Ibaka, Andre Roberson, Mitch McGary, and Kyle Singler.

Ibaka is a better two way guy than Love. AND a better athlete.

Love is the legit 3rd option that the Thunder need.  Love and Kanter can’t defend the inside, but Steven Adams is pretty good at it.

I would think the Thunder try use Kaun as a cheap shot blocker off the bench.  Probably to pair with Enes Kanter.

LeBron needs help on the wing.  Roberson is a bigger, longer guy who can defend and finish.  I think he can get his 3 point percentages up.  If so, he would be a PERFECT tag team partner on the wing with LeBron.  If not, he would STILL give the Cavs some things they need.  

Kyle Singer gives the Cavs some more wing depth (specifically at small forward) and some extra 3 point shooting.

The Cavs get a younger, energy power forward in McGary — a guy I like who can rebound, score, and mix it up.

The Thunder lose some in athleticism.

BUT, I think getting a legit 3rd option in Kevin Love and a guy who is a better rebounder than Ibaka AND a guy more willing to take 3’s, makes up what they would lose in athleticism/defense.

Also, I think the Love-Adams pairing would work for OKC.

Love might just need a change of scenary.

For Cleveland, you can think of the possibilities of going small with Kyrie Irving, JR Smith, Andre Roberson, LeBron, and Serge Ibaka.

Also, they can go BIG (if Roberson improves his shot, oh, and, LeBron, too):

Backcourt: Kyrie Irving and Andre Roberson

Forwards: LeBron James and Serge Ibaka

Center: Tristan Thompson, Mozgov, or Mitch McGary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Untouchable JParticipant]

Why would OKC do that? Lol

s/n Im very high on Mitch McGary whenever/wherever he gets playing time.

[Untouchable JParticipant]

Why would OKC do that? Lol

s/n Im very high on Mitch McGary whenever/wherever he gets playing time.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

Usually, top contenders don’t trade with each other.

I kinda like this trade though:

Kevin Love and Sashsa Kaun to OKC for Serge Ibaka, Andre Roberson, Mitch McGary, and Kyle Singler.

Ibaka is a better two way guy than Love. AND a better athlete.

Love is the legit 3rd option that the Thunder need.  Love and Kanter can’t defend the inside, but Steven Adams is pretty good at it.

I would think the Thunder try use Kaun as a cheap shot blocker off the bench.  Probably to pair with Enes Kanter.

LeBron needs help on the wing.  Roberson is a bigger, longer guy who can defend and finish.  I think he can get his 3 point percentages up.  If so, he would be a PERFECT tag team partner on the wing with LeBron.  If not, he would STILL give the Cavs some things they need.  

Kyle Singer gives the Cavs some more wing depth (specifically at small forward) and some extra 3 point shooting.

The Cavs get a younger, energy power forward in McGary — a guy I like who can rebound, score, and mix it up.

The Thunder lose some in athleticism.

BUT, I think getting a legit 3rd option in Kevin Love and a guy who is a better rebounder than Ibaka AND a guy more willing to take 3’s, makes up what they would lose in athleticism/defense.

Also, I think the Love-Adams pairing would work for OKC.

Love might just need a change of scenary.

For Cleveland, you can think of the possibilities of going small with Kyrie Irving, JR Smith, Andre Roberson, LeBron, and Serge Ibaka.

Also, they can go BIG (if Roberson improves his shot, oh, and, LeBron, too):

Backcourt: Kyrie Irving and Andre Roberson

Forwards: LeBron James and Serge Ibaka

Center: Tristan Thompson, Mozgov, or Mitch McGary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 People forget how good love was in Minnesota. His last 2 healthy seasons there he put up numbers that were basically unprecedented in the modern era of basketball from a perspective of scoring, rebounding and outside shooting. You can’t tell me love’s game has declined that much since then. It’s just the situation has. He might as well be Ryan Anderson the way he is being used in Cleveland. Not that that particular role isn’t how he is most useful to that team, but there is a lot more to loves game that he isn’t getting to show right now. To his credit, he has accepted his role for what it is and hasn’t complained for the most part.

Love is a lot more than just a stretch 4. He is a guy that you can run your entire offense through. He can score the ball in the post, mid-range and beyond the 3 point line, is an excellent passer and one of the best rebounders in the league. He has never been a great defender and never will be but he is legitimately one of the most gifted offensive players in the league. There is no reason to believe that he can’t come close to replicating what he did in Minnesota again, and his value increases even more if you put him with players that can hide his defensive deficiencies. If the cavs were to put him on the market, it’s hard to believe there wouldn’t be suitors and they couldn’t get a decent return. His contract will not look that bad once the new salary cap kicks in and he is still pretty much in his prime.

 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 People forget how good love was in Minnesota. His last 2 healthy seasons there he put up numbers that were basically unprecedented in the modern era of basketball from a perspective of scoring, rebounding and outside shooting. You can’t tell me love’s game has declined that much since then. It’s just the situation has. He might as well be Ryan Anderson the way he is being used in Cleveland. Not that that particular role isn’t how he is most useful to that team, but there is a lot more to loves game that he isn’t getting to show right now. To his credit, he has accepted his role for what it is and hasn’t complained for the most part.

Love is a lot more than just a stretch 4. He is a guy that you can run your entire offense through. He can score the ball in the post, mid-range and beyond the 3 point line, is an excellent passer and one of the best rebounders in the league. He has never been a great defender and never will be but he is legitimately one of the most gifted offensive players in the league. There is no reason to believe that he can’t come close to replicating what he did in Minnesota again, and his value increases even more if you put him with players that can hide his defensive deficiencies. If the cavs were to put him on the market, it’s hard to believe there wouldn’t be suitors and they couldn’t get a decent return. His contract will not look that bad once the new salary cap kicks in and he is still pretty much in his prime.

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 Love shouldn’t be a "third option" 

Love isn’t a guy who you should need to manufacture touches for because of what option he is in the offense. 

In Cleveland he’s a spot-up shooter, which takes away his strength on the offensive glass and his ability to pass at the high post. 

Love didn’t average 25 points per game on a particularly high volume of shots. He averaged 25-13 on basically 16-17 shots per game. His offensive rebounds and his FT attempts are way down because they want him to be Channing Frye/Ryan Anderson. 

Love is a good outside shooter, he’s not a great outside shooter. That’s not what made him special in MN. He’s not a good defender, so you have to work around that and against most teams, you can. Against the Warriors you can’t. 

If Cleveland overreacts to this series and trades him for a "3 and D" SF, they’ll be a worse version of the Heat and get destroyed on the glass every game. That was how you beat Miami and most teams couldn’t becasue LeBron, Wade and Bosh were in their prime. This Cleveland team wouldn’t survive playing that way against most teams. GS is different but who would guard guys like Griffin, Aldridge, Gasol etc.?

 

 

 

 

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 Love shouldn’t be a "third option" 

Love isn’t a guy who you should need to manufacture touches for because of what option he is in the offense. 

In Cleveland he’s a spot-up shooter, which takes away his strength on the offensive glass and his ability to pass at the high post. 

Love didn’t average 25 points per game on a particularly high volume of shots. He averaged 25-13 on basically 16-17 shots per game. His offensive rebounds and his FT attempts are way down because they want him to be Channing Frye/Ryan Anderson. 

Love is a good outside shooter, he’s not a great outside shooter. That’s not what made him special in MN. He’s not a good defender, so you have to work around that and against most teams, you can. Against the Warriors you can’t. 

If Cleveland overreacts to this series and trades him for a "3 and D" SF, they’ll be a worse version of the Heat and get destroyed on the glass every game. That was how you beat Miami and most teams couldn’t becasue LeBron, Wade and Bosh were in their prime. This Cleveland team wouldn’t survive playing that way against most teams. GS is different but who would guard guys like Griffin, Aldridge, Gasol etc.?

 

 

 

 

 

[nill650Participant]

 I could see a scenario where Denver would be willing to move Nurkic and Faried along with their lottery pick this year still retaining 15 ,19 and a late 2nd they can use to add rotation prospects trade up etc…plenty of quality rotation players still available there . I think they would be exstatic to get Love being set with Jokic at the 5 would make a strong front court.

The Cavs would likely not do this, but if Love does not return and the cavs win the title without him, I think they will definitely take offers. The attributes Nurklic and Faried posses and what that would mean in Cleveland is less offense but better defense. add the 7th pick to get the deal done…Cavs would be able to add a piece that can help in a couple years.

I don’t think the Suns have enough to offer.

[nill650Participant]

 I could see a scenario where Denver would be willing to move Nurkic and Faried along with their lottery pick this year still retaining 15 ,19 and a late 2nd they can use to add rotation prospects trade up etc…plenty of quality rotation players still available there . I think they would be exstatic to get Love being set with Jokic at the 5 would make a strong front court.

The Cavs would likely not do this, but if Love does not return and the cavs win the title without him, I think they will definitely take offers. The attributes Nurklic and Faried posses and what that would mean in Cleveland is less offense but better defense. add the 7th pick to get the deal done…Cavs would be able to add a piece that can help in a couple years.

I don’t think the Suns have enough to offer.

[Author]

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