Kevin Love: Overrated, underatted or properly rated?
Well there's been a lot of talk to say the least about K-Love and the Cavs lately. Here's an interesting article from always fun to read Bill Simmons about the question if Kevin Love is being overrated or underatted.
I've gotta say that I'm not one of the guys thats too high on him and Simmons made me appreciate him much more, I still think that this trade isn't the best thing to do.
If I'm Cleveland, I do one of two things. Either use my leverage and the fact Minnesota is desperate, and keep Wiggins. A trade of Dion Waiters, Anthony Bennet and Tristian Thopmson should make the cut. The other is just wait it out, and if Love really wants to play in Cleveland he'll just sign there next year.
My point is, no way do I let go of Andrew Wiggins. A super talented kid that has also produced, a good, hard working, and humble human being. I just don't give that up. Try to get K-love a different way. You could even use Bennet and Thompson to get other players that are on the block.
What happened to 'Riggin for Wiggins'???
Its true fact that Dion Waiters, Anthony Bennett and Tristan are NOT going to make the cut. They tried that for weeks and got no where. Minny arent going to giftwrap another superstar for another team ala Kevin Garnett. Wiggins is out, and even if Cleveland some how managed to get Minny to not take Wiggins, do you really think Wiggins wants to play in Cleveland anymore?
yes wiggins still wants to play for Cleveland forget everything he said to bill self who doesn't want this situation being here will also net him more $$$ if he performs good. Look at what PG got in IND for that's playoff performance.
timberwolves wont see much national tv wiggins will fade to most fans without a league pass and be a after thought until he puts it all together if in Cleveland he remain relevant.
it will take him to develop he says" " he wants to be thrown in the fire right away but careful what you wish for hes not a killer so being the man day one and not livig up to the hype again could affect him mentally he seems fragile and sensitive.
cle is where he wants to e and hes a little hurt hes being traded because when he was drafted the cavs didn't have LeBron or love on the way.
Different question: do you really think Love would like to play for Cleveland when Cleveland blows up this trade last minute by being unwilling to include Wiggins?
I went back and looked at the Number 1 pick from each draft for the last 20 years.
Here is a list of every number one who is clearly better than Love:
That is three guys, out of the last 20.
Here is the next group (guys who are about the same level as Love, maybe a bit better or maybe a bit worse, you can at least debate it)
D Rose (if you want to put AI and Rose in the first catagory, I'm fine with that. They both scored a bit more than Love, but both did so much less efficiently, and neither of them had a secondary skill as dominate as Love's rebounding)
A. Davis (Davis probably goes into the first catagory in a couple of years.)
Now we have eight guys.
The other 12 range from complete busts, to mediocre to pretty good, but still not as good as Love. Most number 1 picks don't end up as good as Love. Very few end up significantly better.
Wiggins is a great talent and will probably be good and possibly a HOF. But it is far from a sure thing. Love is a sure thing.
You can probably add kyrie irving to that second group. but I get the point. It is really only a 50-50 chance whether or not Wiggins is as good s Love and even that would probably take 2 to 3 years at a minimum until he is an all star. At which point Lebron would be an old 32 with 13 or 14 years of playing a ton of minutes and carrying teams with 2 more trips to at least the eastern conference finals. The Cavs made the smart decsion. You go for it when you have the chance, they shouldn't really worry about cometing for 10 years. Most teams especially now with salary cap dont have runs that long unless they are spurs. If they get 2 in the next 4 years this will have been a success.
I was on board for keeping Wiggins for a lot of the time because I see the benefits of having Wiggins next to Lebron after the next 3 years. Wiggins defense with Irvings offense would have really taken the load off of LeBrons shoulders, but Love puts them in the championship contender immediately for the next 4-5 years and probably longer than that. There is an episode of family guy where Peter Griffin is offered a boat or a mystery box. He takes the mystery box because it could be anything, even a boat. That really sums up the Wiggins for Love trade in my eyes. I hate to give up Wiggins, but getting to watch LeBron, Irving, and Love on the court will be special.
Really, another thread about how CLEV has the bargaining power? Please, please get it through your thick skulls, Wiggins is coming to MN and no CLEV doesn't have anymore bargaining power than anyone else.
Flip has them right where he wants them. Can you say Chicago, because that's what CLEV is dealing with. If they don't want to throw in Wiggins he just turns to Chicago and deals with them. And then Chicago is the new eastern power.
Wow people it's that simple. 8 more days of this nonsense, before it's done.
Assuming this is Love for Wiggins,Bennett and first round pick,Wiggins doesnt have to be by himself as good as Love for the wolves to be happy.If Wiggins by himself becomes as good as Love,then this is a slam dunk...People seem to forget about the Bennett piece(assuming hes not traded for Young)who still has a lot of potential if he stays healthy and in shape.
I think the Cavs will be fine with either player. I wished they would have kept Wiggins though. Lebron in his letter mentions "he knows it's going to take time, he's going to be the old leader to the young guy, and he's ready to work with the young guys" and then he goes out and get Kevin Love.
People know i'm not the biggest Lebron fan (he is the best player in the game) but I just think it sucks that he can't just compete, he always has to have like 2 other All-Stars with him. Idk, I just don't like that. Lebron with Wiggins, Waiters, Irving, Thompson, Varejao, Mike Miller, Bennett, would probably still be a top seed and lose in the 2nd round or East finals this year because of Lebron making everyone better.
Now I do think Kevin Love is overrated, he has put up amazing stats, albeit on some bad teams, and yes he has some tough breaks. But I've started judging people from the Carmelo spectrum, because I feel Carmelo gets a ton of unwarranted hate. Carmelo made the playoffs for the 1st 10 years of his career while putting up amazing stats, without playing with super amazing players, He got Allen Iverson after Philly, Chauncey after Detroit, and Amare after Phoenix. Carmelo has only made it to a conference finals once and never the NBA finals, but he's lost the the Conference champion 6 times. The teams they lost to were better teams. We all know one player can't win a championship. But Kevin Love in all of his amazing stats has never even made the playoffs, so while I do believe he's a great player, I don't know exactly how he will be as sometimes a 3rd option. He'll be a great rebounder, he'll get some great open 3's and he'll play atrocious defense. But most people will say at this time, that Kevin Love is a better player than Carmelo, I mean winning has to mean something.
Kevin Love's defense is also, a reason I would have kept Wiggins, Lebron will have to guard the bottom 4 positions without having another plus defender on the court, that could hurt him over time.
I am warming up to the trade. "Windows" aren't always as open as some think.
LeBron is in WIN NOW mode and Kevin Love really helps the Cavs NOW.
Kevin Love is an IDEAL second option who can score, shoot from anywhere, and rebound. He also lets them go big with LeBron at the 3 and Love at the 4, or SMALL with Love as a stretch five and LeBron at the four. Then Kyrie Irving is the third option, another good scorer and outside shooter who can also handle the ball.
That is a good Big Three who can combine for 70 to 80 points a night.
Yeah, they will miss Wiggins' athleticism and defense on the wing, but they can still go out and get Shawn Marion who is still a solid athlete, long as always, and a good defender and team player.
Love, LeBron, and Marion would be as good of a small ball front line as any.
They lose a good 2015 pick in the trade, but I think if they keep their own pick they can get a decent athlete on the wing (which they need). And they still have a few more rangy wing guys in James Jones, Mike Miller, and Joe Harris.
If they sign Marion too, then they can have two really ideal guys to throw at Kevin Durant in LeBron and Shawn Marion. Then you have three bigs in Love, Andy V, and TT to throw at Serge Ibaka. You also hope that Waiters can help out on Russell Westbrook.
What I think it means is that they need to pick up Shawn Marion as the extra guy who can defend, rebound, and finish. Then you also think that James Jones gets some more minutes to show if he can play decent defense to go along with his 3 point shooting, since Mike Miller can't defend anyone. Either James Jones, or maybe Joe Harris steps into that role as a role player shooter and a guy who helps out on team defense.
Harris and James Jones can't replace Wiggins but I think they can chip in a bit to fill that role as guys who bring in some decent size, youth, and shooting/scoring.
K-Love is a bit of an enigma to me, you have a guy, rebounding freak, two 26ppg career seasons, 3 time All Star, twice 2nd All NBA Team, record number of consecutive double-doubles, top 10 in 3 pointers made last season. For a big man he probably has more shooting options than anyone since Dirk at his peak. He can spread the floor well and is a good passer.
But the flip side is that he has never been on a winning season in 6 years with the T-Wolves. I'll dismiss his first few years and the season he only played 18 games but in some quarters he could be seen as the ultimate stats padder.
The ironic thing is if he goes something like 23/12 next season at Cleveland and they win the title but LeBron puts up something like 26/27ppg then people will still say the win was mainly due to LeBron.
I'm a big K-Love fun and have been so since his pre-draft days but he is still a bit of an unanswered question.
Love has had some bad teammates. He has pretty regularly had a guy or two in the starting rotation with him who was pretty bad. If Love didn't score efficiently (so it isn't just that he gets up a lot of attempts) and hit the offensive boards hard (another stat that is tough to pad), I'd say there is a bit of padding. But I'd say the only padding going on is that he was a first option and he had a good set up man in Rubio. Love certainly won't get enough shots with the Cavs to average 25 points per game. He might be something closer to 18 and 11 next season.
He had a nice team last year and they won a good number of games in the West. It is just the West was really competitive. In a normal year, last year's team would have made the playoffs.
"The ironic thing is if he goes something like 23/12 next season at Cleveland and they win the title but LeBron puts up something like 26/27ppg then people will still say the win was mainly due to LeBron."
what on earth would be ironic about klove putting up all star numbers to help the cavs win the ring but lebron, as the best player in the game today, getting recognized as the primary reason for the ring? I cant find any irony in that at all....
Always respect your views llperez - what I mean with it being ironic is that people may not recognise the contribution that K-Love made to the team as LBJ took a Cleveland team without true All Star level support well into the play offs before and K-Love has never driven the T-Wolves to the play offs in 6 years there.
I factor in the wasted years under Kurt Rambis, bad draft picks, Rubio and K-Love himself both missing time with injury, the stronger Western Conference etc.
I'll be as interested as most to see how the likely LBJ, K-Love, Irving axis works out, once they have sussed out who does what as regards ball carrying, shot taking etc. I'll openly admit the more I've thought about it the better I see a K-Love, LBJ duo working on offence with shot taking. LBJ, K-Love and Kyrie all have great shooting range so the floor will really be spread and it will also create openings for the other two guys on court to get free shots as the big 3 will draw double teams on occasions.