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Kevin love best PF in the NBA

Hadzialijagic
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@IndianaBasketball The

@IndianaBasketball

The clippers pace was actually 10th in the league last year which equates to 4 more possesions per game which means that although Blake Griffins stats are down it doesnt mean he isnt playing as good as he played last year. He is getting less possesions because of their slow pace and also keep in mind he is playing 2 minutes less per game this year than last year. It also seems like he has been struggling with foul trouble as well.

And as for Chris Paul handling the ball too much. You might be right but the offence still jumped from 23rd to 6th in terms of offensive efficiency which can be contributed to Chris Paul. And i woulnt blame the overdribbling as much on Chris Paul as its Vinny Del Negros play calling as he hasnt been calling Blakes number all that much.

Hale
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Did you hold it against

Did you hold it against Garnett when he couldn't get it done on his own? Even when he was a veteran? I know for a fact you didn't. It took him 8 years to win a playoff series (first big 3 year), Melo won two by year 6. Then Cassell and Sprewell regressed a bit and all of a sudden the Wolves missed the playoffs every year after that and Garnett didn't get back in until he went to Boston for his second big 3. Melo hasn't missed them once. You know how many players can say they've made the playoffs there first 8 years (possibly 9)? Not many. Just because you don't like Melo doesn't mean you can pick and choose who to give a break or not.

billyk
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Why do people reference

Why do people reference Garnett when discussing Loves inability to make the playoffs??? I think that the BEST player at his position in the NBA should lead there team to the playoffs... The elite players in the NBA have the ability to raise the play of his teammates..

db24kb24
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Fellside

Fellside. Ha, I see what your saying. I was probably reaching a tad with YOUR "star" definition just for the sake of saying that Dirk has had good support for most of his career. I'm not saying those players were all-stars, no, just saying they had good or above avg talent in times when there WERE NOT super teams like there are today.

lets take a look back at good teams in the early 2000's

  • 2003-04 Detroit (champs) - Best 3: Hamilton, Wallace, Billups
  • 2002-03 Spurs (champs) - Best 3: Duncan, Parker, S.Jax
  • 2001-02 Lakers (champs) - Best 3: Shaq, Kobe, Fisher

So what i'm telling you is that Dirks teams have always had a shot of winning. And in an era where stars were more evenly distributed you can argue that the 03' Mavs: Finley, Van Exel, Nash, Raef, Dirk was a loaded team considering the players above. 1999 was the last time Dallas has failed to get a top 4 seed in the western conference, so they have consistently been there. Last year was huge for his career from a champion/great/winning perspective. And last year is the BIGGEST reason he's seriously mentioned in the top PF debate.

Kevin Love has not had the comparitive support so it's not right to exclude him from the convo at age 23. IMO he is playing the best THIS year at PF, it's not like he had to take games off because he was admittidley out of shape. In fact the jump he's made from season to season skill wise leaves me to beleive he'll only get better. Opinions are made to change, and time will probably change yours although thats not what i'm after, I just like to talk hoops.

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Kevin Love has raised the

Kevin Love has raised the level of play from his teammates. If you are blaming him for Wes Johnsons pathetic shooting ability, Martel Websters lack of a brain, JJ Barea's lack of a brain, Darko Milicics wimpiness, Michael Beasley's lack of consistency then you are plain stupid. Put Dirk, Blake, Aldridge, Bosh, or Gasol on the Wolves and the team is just as bad if not worse.

BTPH...I dont know if anybodys ever called you out before, but Im doing it right now, your coming off as foolish. The argument that he plays on a horrible team can still be used, I'm using it. Dont use the rest of the teams ineptitude as an arguement against how good Love has been. There is one player in the league right now who could make this current Wolves team a significantly better looking potential playoff team instead of love...Lebron.

I will admit, I am biased being a wolves fan, but its hard to ignore the fact that every PF he goes up against this year he has completely destroyed besides Griffin. If the best arguement people can come up with denying Loves legitimacy as an elite PF is the fact that the Wolves arent an elite team, then they simply do not understand basketball.

billyk
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I think the fact you are a

I think the fact you are a biased fan, trying to be unbiased actually makes you the stupid person...

billyk
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I was blaming anybody for

I wasnt blaming anybody for anything, a stupid person could of read what I wrote and realized that... All I'm saying is the elite players raise the play of there teammates... I don't see were I'm blaming him for his teammate inconsistencies.. Any idiot could see, I was giving my perspective of what I expect from players that are considered the BEST and their positions..

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@billyk I disagree. If

@billyk

I disagree. If somebody is biased with an opinion, the best thing to do to try to better that opinion is to look at it from another perspective...an unbiased perspective. I dont think that makes anybody stupid, it shows a willingness to consider others points of views by looking at things by the most logical perspective possible, rather then being closed minded.

If you thought I was straight up calling you stupid, I apologize. I wasnt. I think that anybody who automatically just looks at a teams record to demean anything that a player accomplishes is stupid though. I also believe that Kevin Love does raise the level of play from his teammates. I think that he has made Pekovic a more effective player due to other teams paying more attention to love both on the glass and spreading the floor.

I agree completely that the best players raise the level of play of their teammates.

In the coaching world people say, you cant make chicken soup with chicken poop. The same can be said about Kevin Love trying to elevate his team, because it is a roster made up of quite a bit of NBA poop if you get my drift.

db24kb24
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Elite players

Biggie & Billy, I'm sure you consider Carmelo and KB to be elite players right?

I just never bought the idea that elite players make the players around them better.

Biggysmalls
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I consider Melo an elite

I consider Melo an elite "scorer" and I would rank him as the 3rd best SF in the league barely in front of Gay, Granger, Iggy and a couple others

Hes not a good defender, doesnt create for others (though has been doing it more lately), doesnt score in the flow of an offense. Hes really good at getting points, but I think it sacrifices the rest of the teams rythm.

I dont know who KB is...I assume you mean Durant and I personally think he has shown more than Melo as a defender, rebounder and scores without needing constant isolations which I think allows for a better team to be build around him.

I do consider making your teammates better a criteria for being an elite player. If you dont make your teammates better in some way then I personally cant consider that elite. I dont think many coaches or big basketball minds would either.

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Yall need to get off Melo's

Yall need to get off Melo's balls and realize that he is not a selfish team killing cancer.

Watch the games, there are plenty national television Knicks game, and try to nitice teh difference in Anthony's aproach to the game. So many times yesterday I noticed me made the first pass he saw, he tried to get it to the cutter, he's either pulling-up right away for the open jumper, or taking it to the rack and making the right decision before his defender gets set. He's not freezing the ball, his assist numbers the last 5 or so games have been the highest it's ever been for Melo, and it really looks like he's bought into the concept that Mike Woodson is preaching, although I think he's hoping that if he conforms, there'll be more in it for him, meaning more isos and post ups, lol.

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Melo

Ghandi, I'm not saying he's a "selfsish team killing cancer" lol thats extreme, I'm just saying he's an elite player(kobe as well) that doesn't typically elevate the play of his teammates. After all the scrutiny he went under over the Linsanity thing/D'anonit it has forced him to take a backseat for the time being. But lets not get carried away, this is a rather meaningless 4-5 game stretch, not the playoffs. We know who Melo is, the big, versatile scorer, that can get buckets, we know.

Elite scorers don't typically make others better, which makes LBJ the phenom that he is. Kobe certainly does not. At times I would consider kb24 to a "selfish team killing cancer" (recent home gave vs Jazz) so i guess it's not like i'm h8ing on Melo. Other games he can shoot you back in to games you shouldn't be in so i've just been conditioned to take the good w/ the bad.

*And Biggie by KB I meant Kobe Bryant.

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^I wasn't directing it toward

^I wasn't directing it toward you, but hte consencus on the site for the past couple weeks has been that way, there was even a thread a week ago where several people agreed that Anthony was damaging team chemistry.

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"Did you hold it against

"Did you hold it against Garnett when he couldn't get it done on his own? Even when he was a veteran? I know for a fact you didn't. It took him 8 years to win a playoff series (first big 3 year), Melo won two by year 6."

He wasn't in Boston when he won his first playoff series. He took Minnesota to the conference finals in 03-04.

Hale
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I was incorrect, but not in

I was incorrect, but not in the way you implied. I was referring to his big three with Cassell and Sprewell. That was actually his second big 3. Marbury and Googs were the first.

Edit: That may be worded poorly. What I'm saying is I was not referring to Allen/Pierce as the big 3 in that situation.

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If Marbury had stayed with

If Marbury had stayed with the T-Wolves for just 3 more years, I feel that would have been the scond most dynamic duo at the time behind Shaq and Kobe, and possibly could have made several deep playoff runs. I completely disagree with breaking up a young tandem like that.

Grandmama
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lol Tom Gugliotta....

lol Tom Gugliotta....

Hale
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I'm pretty it was Marbury's

I'm pretty it was Marbury's idea. He wanted to play closer to home.

PulseGlazer
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Here's another example -

Here's another example - after Shaq, Wade barely made the playoffs in the East. Were he in the West, his team would have easily missed every single year. Is Wade not a franchise player/top 2 at his position?

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db24kb24, 1999 was not the

db24kb24,

1999 was not the last time the Mavs failed to get a top 4 seed. In 2009 they were a 7 seed. In 2008 they were a 7 seed. In 2004 I believe they were a 5 seed.

I get what you're saying. Dirk had some talented teams. But I think you should also note that many of the guys you listed were either very old at the time or have shown very little in their careers away from Dallas.

If you look at what Jason Terry did in Atlanta, one could make the case that Dirk made Terry's career. You could make the same case about players like Josh Howard, Devin Harris, DaSagana Diop and Marquis Daniels. Most of the "talent" Dirk had in the mid 2000's was a result of Dirk's game IMO.

I'm fine with someone saying Love is the best PF in the game right now. I just think it's a bit premature considering he's yet to even make the playoffs (much less do anything there) and there are several PF's who have proven themselves.

I know for a fact that Dirk Nowitzki can be the best player on a championship team. It's proven and verifiable. I don't know for a fact that Kevin Love, Blake Griffin, Lamarcus Aldridge, Pau Gasol or Zach Randolph can. And since that's the most important thing about a basketball player, I choose Dirk.

db24kb24
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Fellside

Oops this website might have tricked me...i was looking at the finish column http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/

"I know for a fact that Dirk Nowitzki can be the best player on a championship team...And since that's the most important thing about a basketball player" -fellside

I'm not entirely sure about that, i don't want to debate it either...Anyways, Dirk is a beast (at scoring) and carried the team on O last season, so I see nothing wrong w/ that. good chat.

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@db24kb24 haha my bad. Ive

@db24kb24 haha my bad. Ive never seen anybody refer to him as KB

I see what your saying about Kobe when comparing him to melo as an elite scorer, but Kobe has won, a ton. It sounds weird, but Kobe just seems to have that aura that makes his teammates better. Its like in the videogame when a player has a good leadership rating, it positively affects the teammates, I think Kobe has that type of an effect. I havent seen that from Melo. Maybe I'm just sounding stupid as hell but I think Kobe does affect the game by raising the level of play of his teammates, if anyting because they are scared &$#%#&@!less of him.

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@Biggie

"if anyting because they are scared &$#%#&@!less of him"

hahahaha YES! The only problem is some guys are scared to over exert themselves around him, because you know, and they know kb24 is always a better option. When you play w/ lebron he gives you more confidence to do your thing, he trusts and builds confidence in his teammates where as kb24 you hafta earn his respect, which blows.

Kobe does have that videogame-like aura lol

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Kevin Love. That is all

Kevin Love. That is all

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Another 30 and 20 game for

Another 30 and 20 game for Love with a Win over the Nuggets. No Pekovic tonight, so they started Love at Center which also allowed Williams to get on the court.

I really hope the Wolves can make it to the playoffs, because I want to see this guy play a series against another top power forward. The seven game series where folks act and react and change up game plans is really a different beast than the regular season. Can another team keep Love off the boards when they are playing him five or six games in a row? Or will it be too much to ask other PFs to defend the glass on both sides of the court and also chase Love out to the three point line? I want to see these questions get answered.

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Love came into the game

Love came into the game tonight leading the nba in ppg during the month of March.

His stats tonight:

40 Points

19 Rebounds

4 Assists

It was against the Bobcats though.....probaly could have done better....

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Call me crazy, call me

Call me crazy, call me delusional, but I am ready to put him in the Durant-Rose catagory. Future of our league, franchise player, he's so good and so young, who knows what those three guys could become. We should've known from the sample size of his first two seasons this kid was somthing special. Just looking at his Per 36 stats from those years and his metric stats, you knew he was going to be special. I really want to see him in the playoffs. He seems like one of those guys that can beat a team on his own. He might not be able to beat the Thunder more than twice without Ricky, barely once, but there will be games if they make it to the playoffs where all you could do is just sit there and watch. And the crazy thing is that Rose, Durant, and Love all get BETTER. Rose adn KD's stats may not increase that much, but it's obvious that all three of them have put the work into their game to expand it and make themselves better players.

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"Call me crazy, call me

"Call me crazy, call me delusional, but I am ready to put him in the Durant-Rose catagory. Future of our league, franchise player, he's so good and so young, who knows what those three guys could become."

Rose and Durant carried teams to the conference finals. Love is struggling to lead his team out of last place in the Northwest.

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dude rose and durant didn't

dude rose and durant didn't "carry" their teams, specially rose.

there is this westbrook guy in okc, who is a beast

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"dude rose and durant didn't

"dude rose and durant didn't "carry" their teams, specially rose.

there is this westbrook guy in okc, who is a beast"

Go back and watch last year's playoffs.

aamir543
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^Yeah, BTPH is right, Durant

^Yeah, BTPH is right, Durant and Rose carried their teams through the playoffs, but look at the team Love has around him now, it's last year's Wolves all over again, except Beas isn't nearly as productive as he was last year, and until Pek comes back Love will and has been playing center.

I may have jumped the gun, and taking a further look at it Rose and Durant are on a completely different level, but if Rose and Durant are Dollar Bills, Love is one nice 93 cent piece, lol.

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BTPH

which one of these stats is better????? please tell me cuss im confused right now...

23 394% 5rebs 6 assist 1.4 steals

24 on 396% 4rebs 7assist 1.4 assist

.

one guy is westbrook who according to you was non-existent and the latter is rose who according to you "carried" the team.... explain.

keeping negging me in all my posts people, it doesn't phase me. ima prove all you wrong...

BothTeamsPlayedHard
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Kevin Love has eight lottery

Kevin Love has eight lottery picks around him (six of whom were top six picks) plus Pekovic who entered the league with a top six pick contract (because he declared prior to his draft that he wasn't taking a paycut to come to the NBA) and JJ Barea. They have talent. Take a look at what surrounds the big men in Utah, and then look at their record. It is stunning. There aren't threads every day praising Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap calling them elite. They aren't getting the ESPN polishing, but their results are better and there is a chance the Jazz will be in the playoffs as a result.

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now nobody cares. lol.

now nobody cares. lol.

Nbanflguy
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Kevin Love has eight lottery

Kevin Love has eight lottery picks around him (six of whom were top six picks) plus Pekovic who entered the league with a top six pick contract (because he declared prior to his draft that he wasn't taking a paycut to come to the NBA) and JJ Barea. They have talent. Take a look at what surrounds the big men in Utah, and then look at their record. It is stunning. There aren't threads every day praising Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap calling them elite. They aren't getting the ESPN polishing, but their results are better and there is a chance the Jazz will be in the playoffs as a result.

Who cares if he has 8 lottery picks? You say 8 lottery picks like it is a big deal, but only a few of them actually play and contribute.

  1. Wes Johnson was a lottery pick and he has no offensive game at all. He is a solid defender, but thats it.
  2. Anthony Randolph does not play
  3. Darko........ yeah
  4. Webster scores under 7 ppg and does not do anything special
  5. Rubio is really good, not playing right now though
  6. Beasley has missed 15 games this year and has been hit or miss when he plays
  7. Luke Ridnour is very solid
  8. Derrick Williams will be good, but has been inconsistant all year and his season stats are not all that good.

JJ Barea has also missed almost half the season and has been more bad that good when he had played. Shooting 38% from the field and 32% from 3.

Pekovic has been good, but he has missed 17 games. Love has been the one consistant player game in and game out.

BTPH you are almost always right, but you are not right in this case. I do not think you watch the wolves.

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sorry dale, ima have to use

sorry dale, ima have to use it on 'em.

HATERS GONNA HATE, POTATOES GONNA POTATE

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