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Is KCP and ben maclemore busts

aad
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Is KCP and ben maclemore busts

Is it to early to call them bust both seem to not be doing much for there teams but kcp can be a lock down defensive player


BasketBalAllan
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No doubt, if a player is not

No doubt, if a player is not at least an all star with 3 rings after 65 games they will never amount to anything. Think along the lines of getting cut from the NBADL'S newly created NBAFL's Portugal affiliate before the end of next season.

Hector_Reyes_8
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Damn

So many grammar mistakes...
And no. It's way too early for that. Ben is in a horrible organization and KCP came into a really weird team that should be better than it is. If they both were in a good organization that emphasizes with working with their prospects, they would be All-Rookie members.... They still should be holy crap this rookie class is awful.

RickSlickCHI
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Too soon to say

Alot of these kids coming out early are not ready. It will take a few years for some to develop. Also you have to see what type of system they are playing in, some of these players are not a good fit for the teams they are on. To be honest I feel the one and done rule should be taken out and make players developed more on the college level, making them become more of a impact player coming into the draft.

vnmslsrbms
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Too early

You can't call them busts, but McLemore isn't inspiring confidence. He's actually been given chances to play, and hasn't really played well. He has consistently shot it terribly (even in summer league). KCP has shot a better pct and at least is getting 1 steal per game in 20 mpg. Ben is shooting like he's a 7 foot center. He's also playing 24 mpg. I think it's a little different for say point guards where you have to give them a few years to develop and learn. For SG's, by year two you can tell if they are going to be a star or be a role player. In McLemore's case, he's looking like D-League or worse.

McDunkin
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Naw they is not One thing

Naw they is not

One thing that I learned from this site is that its literally always too soon to completely give up on a player. Don't get me wrong it's fun to crack jokes and post gifs about them not living up to their hype or draft position.

Gerald Green was called a bust plenty of times so was my MMA company but you know what? We both are still around! He is having a break out year and MMA? Kind of sort of doing big things...well a lot of smedium sized things.

Jester87
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Too early for both of them,

Too early for both of them, but they are in very different situations and although their numbers might look similar I think their actual contribution wasn't.

KCP found himself in a team totally messed up, with terrible ball movement and sometimes it was almost saddening seeing him being the only guy moving off the ball in their line up and still not being able to receive a pass because Josh Smith or Brandon Jennings were hi-jacking the offense with a constested jumper. He didn't get the ball a lot and when he did he struggled with his jumper. But at least, he has shown some promises on defense (he's clearly the best perimeter defender in the roster), and with his teams offensive and spacing issues it isn't surprising he struggled to put the ball in the hole, considering he wasn't involved at all. Also, he had some competition for playing time because his team was trying to make the playoffs, so it wasn't an easy situation and he wasn't allowed a lot of mistakes. One very interesting thing, he has a very good plus/minus, Pistons are pretty much even with him on the floor (they outscore opponents by 0.4 per 100 possessions), but opponents outscore them by 6.0 points per 100 possessions when KCP is out. So while he's not been really good, especially on offense, I've seen quite a few signs to say he belongs and he could've been better in another team. I see some skills he could rely on to build a solid Nba career.

McLemore has been more disappointing for me because he's been given plenty of chances to show his talent, but he probably wasn't ready for the Nba. And while the Kings are not the best team obviously, on the other hand it was kind of a good situation for him. They're a losing team, but they're not bad at all on offense and they had everything to hide McLemore's current weaknesses (creating offense and ball handling) and to take advantage of his strengths (shooting ability and athleticism). Also, while the Kings have never been in tanking mode, they were never were under the pressure of making the playoffs, so they gave him plenty of playing time and yet something went wrong. He's been too much of a liability on defense, he's looked lost on the court and his go to skill, his jumper, has been really inconsistent and mostly has been off. Which is kinda worrisome, I mean, I wouldn't have been surprised if he had a bad season in a terrible team asking him to score 20 points every night and to lead the offense, or if he didn't get playing time in a very good team with many solid veterans at his position. But the Kings put him in a position to basically just do what he was supposed to be really good at, and it hasn't worked. Just to be clear, I'm not giving up on him, he's only 21, he has amazing athleticism, and his jumper is fundamentally sound, I don't see him always struggling that much with his shot. Plus most of the things he's bad at right now, he could improve, especially on defense. He could put on some weight and improve as a finisher. But hell, I thought he was ready to contribute immediately, so I am really disappointed and I think there's a lot of work to do.

Meditated States
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How would have staying in school mattered?

Will Cauliestein stock slipped majorly by coming back. How much has he improved? It NBA teaching that has suffered. Guys are not put into the right positions to benefit them. Coaches are scared to let the guys go through growing pains. It slows their progress. Has Smart become better by huge leaps and bounds by coming back? I say no. His shot is still suspect. He will have to shoot over quicker, longer players either way. Too early to call those guys busts. Ben had no handle coming out and even with another season of NCAA play I dont think he would be much for creating his own O. Catch and shoot and fast break player. That is his skill set. Extra year of college would nit change that. He must become more consistent hitting his shots when he is open.

Jester87
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I never said he should've

I never said he should've stayed in school. In my opinion nobody with a legit shot to be the first overall pick should come back (no matter if they slip a little lower like Ben did). Injury risk is too high. And it's too risky especially when the draft is really weak like last year and the next draft is going to be much better. Mostly for a guy like him coming from poverty, with a brother in jail.

I just said he wasn't ready to contribute, and it's not a matter of ball handling or creating offense, he hasn't failed just doing that this year. If it was just a matter of ball handling and creating offense his season would've been fine. Right now his basketball IQ is pretty low and he just seems lost on the court most of the times. There are so many things he seems not to be able to do at Nba level right now. That doesn't mean that this season isn't going to help him and that he can't learn what he needs to learn in the Nba better than he would've in college.

Frankly I don't have a well defined idea on whether players develop more in college or in the Nba. Some raw players develop in the Nba. Others just never get better. Some players stagnate after coming back to college and their stock take a major hit. Other really benefit for staying longer. It's just not as simple as pointing out that one specific player would've been drafted higher had he left earlier. There are thousands of examples of player that were fringe Nba prospects early in their career and got a lot better during their college careers. Also, draft stocks have pretty much nothing to do with development: some players are just overrated early in their career and they wouldn't have developed in the Nba just as much as they didn't in college and would've become bust. I think it's really a convoluted topic, it depends on a lot of things, who's the college coach, what kind of ball does he play, does the prospect fit in that team, what kind of team he goes, how much do they work on player development (some teams in the Nba doesn't do that at all or they just aren't good), how does the player fit in that team, how much the guy is willing to work in college without getting any money or is he going to be gratified once he starts getting big paychecks and stop working and so.

It's just too different for each individual and each situation, so I don't know whether McLemore would've developed better staying in college. But, yeah, he could not come back, he had to give up too much money and considering his personal situation it would've been crazy. Nonetheless, he's been pretty disappointing and he's showing he wasn't ready to be a good contributor immediately. I still think he can improve and become a very good player, but while it's too early to give up and call him a bust, he has to realize he has to work a lot and certainly his rookie season raises some concerns.

vulture711
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Well

In terms of where they were drafted, the minutes they've gotten and what you would expect from high draft picks, probably for this year as has been most of the 1st round - Bennett, Porter, Zeller......the list goes on

But you don't judge a career by a season. After last year I would have said Terrence Ross and Tony Wroten were busts - but each play now and look like players. Sometimes you just need minutes, or the right system.

Jester87
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I agree on pretty much

I agree on pretty much everything except for Zeller, he's been borderline embarassing during his first like 40-50 days of Nba, then he's been slowly but constantly improving and he's been very good in the last 15-20 games. There's a pretty constant trend, so I doubt it's a fluke. Plus, it's not the usual case of a rookie getting more playing time in a bad team going from tanking to hard tanking or in a mediocre team missing the playoff and giving more playing time to young players. The 'Cats are fighting for the playoffs and they've been really good of late (as weird as it might sound saying something like that about Charlotte) and Zeller hasn't gotten many more minutes, he's just playing better.

Take a look at the progression of his per 36 numbers stats.nba.com/playerStats.html, especially the last two charts. FTA number is really impressive.

Andrew1984
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I was so high on Detroit with

I was so high on Detroit with Monroe and Drummond returning, but Dumars blew it by bringing in Brandon Jennings and Josh Smith, two of the most inefficient players in the league. They both have terrible shot selection and it's impossible to emulate Spurs-like ball movement with those two. If Detroit had either brought in more of a pass-first, higher FG percentage PG and just given Singler starting minutes at the 3, I think KCP would've had a better year. He reminds me of O.J. Mayo.

Rafter
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''Is it to early to call them bust'

'Is it to early to call them bust'

YES. End of story.

CavFanPR
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Anthony Bennett isn't a bust.

Anthony Bennett isn't a bust.

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