Is Jrue Holiday the most criminally underrated player in the NBA???
I know he made his 1st all star team thanks in large part to Derrick Rose tearing his ACL last year BUT he still had an awesome season and took a huge step forward becoming the team's franchise player...
Now I hear/see threads about PG's like Irving, Curry, Wall and Lilliard all the time but I never hear about Jrue Holiday in these top PG debates at all! He has held his own against the top guards at both ends of the floor. In fact I think he is the best Two Way PG next to Chris Paul IMO, he and Paul both being able to put up 20 points plus shut down the opposing player on a consistant bases...Now I hear the Payton comparison get thrown on John Wall a lot and I don't see it at all, Wall isnt as concerned about playing man to man defense as Jrue and has a completly different offensive game than GP, Jrue on the other hand plays hard at both ends of the court and has a similar skillset to Payton...Again Jrue was born and raised in Cali and has looked up to Jason Kidd and Gary Payton, so I think he's naturally a better PG when it comes to thinking out yhe game as well...
Overall I am beggining to think the 76ers need more exposure and that Holiday would be a star if he played for a different Team/Bigger Market...He also needs to become more vocal and confidant in his talent, drafting a high flying Pf to play Pick and Roll can't hurt him either, Payton had Shawn Kemp to star alongside, sadly Holiday as had an Inconsistant Evan Turner and half hearted Andrew Bynum as 2nd options...Maybe if they draft or sign an explosive PF to finish off some of Jrue's awesome passes we'll hear more about my Favorite PG in The NBA not named Rondo or Rose...
So what are you guys thoughts on Jrue Holiday and where do you think he ranks as far as PG's are concerned? Top 10? Top 5?
I Can't name 10 better players at the Position. Paul, Rondo, Rose, Westbrook and Holiday??? Curry, Irving, Wall, Rubio and Lilliard are all Top 10 Pg's too but they're too one dimensional and don't play defense at all unless you count gambling in passing lanes "defense"... Deron Williams is arguablly a Top 10 PG too but Deron keeps falling on my list and I believe he is a Sg mascarading as Pg...
So I'll be ready for all the negative points and backlash, but I stand by my opinion that Jrue is a top flight PG no matter where he is placed on these Top 10 List...
I think he is a 5 tool athlete, his biggest weakness Is not having that Chip on His Shoulders like a Gary Payton which would make Holiday an absolute killer on the court
The reason you are not hearing about Holiday, is because his level of play dropped off significantly over the 2nd half of the season. On the other hand, other PGs stepped up their play after the all-star break. Deron Williams of old came around, Mike Conley stepped up, Stephen Curry helped land the Warriors the 6 seed in the tough Western conference, and I don't know if there was another PG who shot as low a clip as Holiday. Other more successful PGs are getting more press because they are playing well when it matters.
PGs like Lawson, Curry, Parker, Conley, Paul, Westbrook*, Williams, are in the playoffs because they are good team leaders and they are winners. Jrue is at least 2 years younger than all of the players listed and he has all the potential to be a top 5 point guard in his prime.
Holiday has good size and athleticism for his position, and his ability to finish with his off hand is stellar. He can hit the 3, score off the dribble, and go on little runs. But sometimes the number of shots he takes and shot selection are questionable. He needs to take on a bigger facilitator role to get other offensive threats on his team going for the 76ers to become a wining team.
If the Sixers either sign Dwight Howard, or get Al Jefferson along with retaining Hawes, I believe that they could become a competitive playoff team.
He might be a little underrated but I feel like he gets his respect. Honestly though, if he was as good as you're saying, they'd be in the playoffs right now.. Brandon Jennings even got his team to the playoffs!
Honestly, you're on drugs, if you've watched Steph in these playoffs and would still take Jrue.
You didnt name Tony Parker bro.. smh, but Jrue is still young and hes gonna get better
Williams, Irving, Curry, Parker, Lawson, Rondo, Wall, Rubio, Conley, Dragic, Jennings, Teague, Nash, Felton, Lilliard, Vasquez. With Holliday, they make up the top 20 point guards. I'm not sure that Holliday is in the top 10. He led the NBA in turnovers by almost 20
I admit Curry is an offensive weapon but how much is Lawson averaging during the playoffs? Jennings did help his team get an 8th seed and he's also had help from Scoring machine Monta Ellis and 3pt sharp shooter JJ Reddick, plus defensive standouts Sanders, Udoh, Dalembert, Mbah Moute and John Henson...The Suxers yes The Suxers traded their defensive leader Andre Iguadola to the Nuggets for a guy that failed to step on the court this year...Guess what the Sixers still didnt fall to the very bottom of the league, which could have been expected after they gutted their team by letting go of Brand and Lou Williams as well as Iggy, Vucevic and Harkless...They have the 11th pick not a Top 5 pick like Kyrie's Cavs or John Wall's Wizard of last year...Neither of those guys lead their teams to the playoffs either, Rubio, Lilliard, Irving and Wall haven't even been to the post season yet, Jrue lead a Sixers team to the 2nd round last year and was their best player throughout that run...Curry has been a revelation But lets not overlook his flaws on defense and the longevity of this production...Again No One player can lead a team to the playoffs by himself unless his name is Kobe or Lebron, knocking Jrue for the Teams failure is fine as long as you hold others in that same regard...
Those guys are underrated Too. I always hated Parker's face and I sometime forget he exist but he's a top flight PG NO DOUBT...Lawson and Conlybare too tough not to mention as well, I love those two players...
Vasquez came on strong this year and Dragic is my sleeper Pg that no one talks about. He and Lowry let me down a little this year but they'll both be better next season...
For the month of March and April, Holiday averaged 14PPG 8APG but with 37% FG shooting. He finished the season very weak. He still needs to be more consistent to label him as "top flight PG." He made the All-star this season so I don't know how he is underrated.
He clearly ran out gas at the end of the season and has to stop turning the ball over...That was a great point brought up that I almost ignored...He was a bit of a Turnover machine at times, not having Iggy and Lou allowed him to handle the ball more almost to a fault...He did need the experience though and he should be better for the struggle he faces this year...
Every player has holes in their game and Holiday's is going to have to keeps the TO's low while being more aggressive/consistant as a scorer...Everything else about him is fine, he's got great range and has the ability to dribble and drive with both hands...He has to get stronger too but he's still one of the younger starting PG's and he's already a great defender at both Guard spots...Strenght, Aggressiveness and Consistancy come with age and he's got 4 more years to show Philadelphia they made a great choice at Pg...
That's not a top flight PG. A top flight PG is capable of carrying a team on his back despite the lack of talent, and Holiday is not capable of that (at this point). Even a guy like Deron Williams (who gets a lot of hate for being overrated) has carried the Nets at certain point of the season specially towards the end of the season.
+1 for Deron Williams being criminally OVERrated. Wonder how long it is before he gets PJ fired?
Rubio and Wall are both excellent defenders while bringing something more to the table on offense then Holiday. For Rubio it's his playmaking, for Wall it's his scoring ability (look at the last two months not the whole season where he was returning from injury).
Kyrie and Curry are both so far ahead of Holiday on offense that the difference in defense doesn't really matter.
He couldn't get his team to the playoffs in the east...Brandon Jennings did. That's why no one is talking
I am a Sixers fan and really like Holiday but you are going way overboard. I don't think he is underrated or overrated at this point in his career. He is still only 22 years old and less than a month older than ROY Damian Lillard. Holiday is a very good young PG but I don't know if I would put him in the top 10 yet.
Those aren't my rankings they are ranked by Estimated Wins Added this season. Holiday is tied for 11th with Calderon and Dragic. Then you have guys like John Wall and Rondo who were hurt much of the year who I would also take over Jrue. I would rank Jrue slightly ahead of Rubio and Jennings. His final rank this season would be 13th best PG in the league in my opinion.
As someone stated before Holiday fell off in the second half of the season for the 2nd year in a row. Lets compare his pre and post all star stats with 2 other 22 year old PGs.
Jrue Holiday Pre All-Star Break- 45 GP 45.1 FG% 77.5 FT% 8.9 APG 19 PPG
Post All-Star Break- 31 GP 39.7 FG% 71.4 FT% 6.7 APG 15.8 PPG
Damian Lillard Pre All-Star Break- 53 41.8 85.6 6.5 18.3
Post All-Star Break- 29 44.9 82.5 6.5 20.4
Kemba Walker Pre All-Star Break- 52 42.5 79.2 5.6 17.2
Post All-Star Break- 30 41.9 80.6 6.0 18.8
These numbers show that Holiday tails off much more than other PGs his age at the end of the season. While Lillard and Walker were getting stronger as the year went on Holiday played worse. You can't blame his teammates either because we all know Kemba and Lillard don't have stacked teams themselves. Jrue has the potential to be a top 10 PG in the league but he isn't right now. Once he puts a full consistent season together he will certainly be in the discussion but right now any talk of Jrue being an elite PG is premature.
Paul Millsap is one of the rare players who can be plugged in on any team in the league and not mess up the chemistry while still playing heavy minutes. For years, I was praying to the basketball gods that my Lakers would bring him in even when the Dwight talk started to heat up but nope. If he started in Miami, that team would be even better than they are today. Same with Indiana, LAL, OKC, SAS and whatever other stacked team comes to mind. Dude is good for averaging 16 and 7, he's a double-double threat every night, he can hit the jumper and he doesn't need 20 shots to be successful. Jrue Holiday is overlooked for sure but Millsap is straight out slept on so he gets my vote.
I think Jrue Holiday is overrated. He shoots around 43%, isn't a great 3pt shooter, doesn't get to the FT line a lot. He's a good passer, but also gets a lot of turnovers. So he's really not very efficient...
Most of the list I agree with...some is debatable...but no way would any GM in the NBA want Darren Collison or Isaiah Thomas over Jrue Holiday who was an all-star at age 22.
I wasn't saying as a GM. I was saying who I would want if I'm looking to win now.
I agree with you. If you're building for the future, of course Holiday has to be looked on favourably. But is he underrated right now? I say hell no.
Also, I forgot about Rubio and Wall who didn't play full seasons. And if you include Derrick Rose, I think it's clear that Holiday is outside the top 20 PGs...
No he isn't outside the top 20. He is in the top half of starting PGs in the league but barely. Collison averaged 12 and 5 this season and the Mavs had to bring in Derek Fisher because Darren wasn't getting it done. Rubio averaged 11 and 7 while shooting 36%. I am not sure how you can take these guys right now over Holiday.
Here is the list with Rose added.
4. Tony Parker
6. Kyrie Irving
7. Mike Conley
10. Kemba Walker
16. Jeff Teague
You could debate putting Jennings or Teague ahead of Holiday. Even if you put Dragic, Calderon and George HIll ahead of him as well which I wouldn't he is still ranked as a top 20 point guard.
Hill, Lowry, Teague, Jennings are easily better than Holiday.
You also have Rubio and Wall.
Plus, I would also have Dragic, Calderon, Isaiah Thomas, and Jeremy Lin. Kemba Walker is around this level too.
Holiday isn't a bad player. He's good. But PG is a very very deep position. I would rank him around 22-25rd.
25th? How do you get selected to an all star game when there are only 5 starting PGs in the league who are worst than you. If Hill, Lowry, Teague and Jennings are all better than Jrue why did he make the East all star squad while they were all at home?
Saying Jeremy Lin is better than Jrue Holiday takes the cake...you lost all remaining credibility with that statement.
Holiday shot the ball well in the first half of the season. Hence he made the all star team. His shooting was atrocious in the 2nd half and he regressed to the mean (consistent with his performance in prior years).
I think Lin is in the same tier as Holiday. That's why I gave a range from 22 to 25. That may not be a popular opinion, but your opinion does not remove my credibility.
Lin didn't perform very well this year mainly because he is in a bad team situation playing next to Harden, in an offensive system which lacks any type of stability.
Holiday suffered from his team situation as well. But people reward the players who have higher PPG, which is why Holiday is a bit overrated to begin with.
Holiday is a bit overrated but you are WAY under rating him if you think he is the 25th best PG in the NBA. I know he didn't shoot the ball well in the 2nd half of the season....I am the one who posted the stats that showed his decline compared to the other young PGs...that being said he was still an all star and the 25th best player at his position in the league has never ever made an all star team.
If you put Jrue Holiday on the Rockets over Lin (I'm sure McHale would sell his soul to do so) they would have still made the playoffs and been potentially the 6th seed. If you take Holiday off the SIxers and replace him with Lin the Sixers are fighting Orlando for the worst record in the league.
My opinion doesn't remove your credibility....you did that all on your own.
Paul doesn't shut people down...he just gets steals. John Wall is the most underrated player in the league. He's a superstar and doesn't get enough credit.
List of best young point guards
He's a 5-tool athlete? OP, this isn't baseball.
I believe a criminally underrated talent is definitely Zach Randolph...I swear no one on the Grizz gets mentioned unless it is the night of the game or post game...
That can be said of every team that isn't OKC Miami Boston LA Lakers or NY Knicks.
Zach Randolph is underrated though because he doesn't do in in spectacular fashion like Blake Griffin but if you just want to win I would pick ZBo over Blake all day.
Another underrated tough PF who just gets the job done is David West. He averaged 17 and 8 this year which was an improvement of over 4 PPG and he was close to the all star numbers he put up in New Orleans. He shoots 50 percent from the field for his career and 83 percent at the line. West was 6th among PF in PER this season and statistically speaking was the 5th best power forward in the NBA behind Griffin, Duncan, Aldridge and Lee. The 6th best PF this year is a guy on the Sixers who is truly underrated and that is Thad Young.