could be but i cant take anyones word about any player..i have to see things for myself before i can decide..thats half the reason why i havent jumped on the rubio bandwagon even though ive seen his games in spain
Trust me....alot of teams are feeling him...I actually think a team will take him and not throw him into the wolves. Also His D will get him on the court.
He was highly touted and could've turned pro after HS if it was still allowed. NBA scouts like his size since he is a true PG and a pretty good scorer to boot.
No one was going to supplant Collison his senior year, I think NBA people realize this. So you basically discount his UCLA statistics and work with what else you have. I think he's a very solid pick in mid to late first round, but someone will probably reach a bit. I don't think you draft him counting on him being a star, but you can at least count on him being a solid NBA point guard. Ultimately the height makes a difference here- if he was 5'10" we wouldn't be having this discussion, he'd be starting for UCLA next year.
He didn't set the NCAA on fire last year, but neither did Rubio or Jennings. I'm not saying their years were equal, just saying that Holiday also had some extenuating circumstances.
i have noticed alot of people are getting high on him after work outs but i gotta say these work outs dont test what you are gonna do in the game from the workouts i went to after i graduated...for one you are doing a bunch of drills...at most youre gonna play a 3 on 3 but usually its 2 on 2 or one on none..so if you happen to be a great workout player you can fool teams into drafting you...another thing is if youre projected as a high lotto pic you will be working out against either guys who will be going overseas or maybe second round..it has nothing to do with being scared but more to do with the agent being smart and not letting the possiblility of you being out played by a lower draft pick which is another reason why players skip the predraft camp. alot of these coaches gms get a rude awaking after they draft these players and they are in a 5 on 5 setting and they arent making these same shots that they were making when working out alone or in a 2 on 2..another thing they cant really judge is a players passing ability because its not 5 on 5 with more defenders trying to stop youre passes...theres also alot of players who show to be pretty good athletes in these settings but it doesnt translate into a game because they have defenders go jump against..im sure we all have seen guys shot in the gym or dunk in warm ups and think man this guymust be real good but when game time comes thoses same shots arent falling or that person isnt dunking on anyone..basically alot of people can come away looking like hall of famers in workouts like a kwame brown,adam morrison or j.j reddick but end up being a basic player in the nba...another thing is that you must also consider even thoug a player might be good at this or that how good will he be doing this or that when being checked by deron williams or chris paul or a rondo
check out my mock http://www.nbadraft.net/node/5964
Yea if he was 5-10, he would not be a top 10 pick. But hes not. Holiday is highly touted and he went to a system where he didnt fit as a SG. If he played off the bench as a PG, he would have been a top 5 pick.
Alot of teams look at potential...
The funny thing is that I think a lot of NBA teams will view him as a relatively safe pick in the mid 1st round (funny because of all the controversy about him not starting at UCLA):
1 .He's got a good all-around game without major weaknesses.
2. He is complimented for his defense.
3. He's tall, which gives him advantages at defense and overall court vision.
4. He seems like he got a solid enough head to play NBA point, which requires vision/intelligence but not quite on the level of say an NFL QB.
So considering the above, I think with proper coaching the worst case scenario is that he becomes a solid NBA point guard. Which you are very happy to get if you pick him in the mid to later first round, right? Thus, people are talking him up into the late lottery range.
I don't know what his upside will be, I don't think he has quite the athletic ability to become a dominant NBA player. But he really shouldn't wash out either.
QHaynes123, I agree with you on the Marvin Williams point as well. It seems that I agree with you on the means, but not on the end. Look, I know that this is common knowledge, but every guy that John Paxson has drafted on the Bulls weren't high potential players except for Tyrus Thomas. Sorry, I am just most familiar with the Bulls so that's why I always use them as an example. But, even Tyrus Thomas reached the Final Four just like every other significant pick of the Paxson regime. Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Duhon, Tyrus Thomas, Noah, Rose, all were at least in the Final Four. Even Aaron Gray made the Sweet 16. Not only that, but each one of these players were standouts on their championship caliber teams. Now, the Bulls didn't win a championship, but they did have 3 straight playoff appearances without an all-star on the team. Then, like most NBA teams, they got lucky by drafting a superstar and everything else they have done is moot but that's beside the point.
My point is, taking a guy based on potential at PG that proved NOTHING at the college level is risky because if this guy takes 3 - 4 years to break into the Top 10 PG's of the league, his contract is up and you might just lose him anyway. It's like you are the Clippers of the 1990's (well, the Clippers of always) or the old Montreal Expos. You are a minor league team who just PAID to develop someone else's All-Star. Of course, Marvin Williams did succeed on a successful college team and he turned out to be a bust. But, would anyone else in the league except for maybe Michael Jordan's Bobcats have taken him 2nd overall? Anyway, I think that guys like Marvin Williams illustrate that point more than anything. It has come back to bite GM's in the ass too many times in the last 15 years because so many people are coming into the league under-prepared.
I also would love to see a guy like BJ Mullins get drafted by the Bulls 26th and become the top tier caliber player that everyone thought he was going to be (didn't this site have him going #1 or #2 overall at this time last year!?!?!?), but that happens about 0.01% of the time. God, Mullins, what a bust.
yeah thats why alot of teams make bad draft choices
i look at some of these guys picked off of that potenial and then i look at the players they could of had and think how dumb some not all of them are. even before chris paul became a superstar pretty much most people knew atlanta should have picked him because they needed a pg and they already had fowards
Thank you.... i think if you give him a good coach...he will Be good
i can agree with madmax assessment
yeah..alot better then the he will be a superstar comments i have seen
He played 2 seasons at UCLA and he wasnt a high recuit....he had no pressure...he just got better in time.
thats all if took for westbrook.....10 games
Your telling me you would take a good PG if they played 10 games as PG in college? No but OKC took a chance of him because he has good size, exellent D and he played PG. And they came from the same system.
I was just responding to a comment about how Russell thrived... and just making the point that Jrue never got the chance to thrive or to get into any rhythm as a PG, his natural position.
I think that if Jrue would have gotten that opportunity there would be a lot less doubters because they would have seen his abilities as a true PG. I think that some guys are just much more effective and comfortable with the ball in their hands
the thing is he only played one year so you cant compare it to toyota because you can judge toyota by other years but cant jude jru by anything but that one year....and thats based on superstar potential not regular or good player potential..when did jru show superstar potential xbadger and ill gladly check out the game and see
There's more to basketball than superstars... if your point is only that you don't think that he has any superstar potential- sorry that we had this discussion. NBA superstars are high volume scorers like Gilbert Arenas or Baron Davis.... But, if I was going to put money on who would win more NBA championships out of Gil, Baron, and Jrue I'd put my money with Jrue.....
that arguments not even that strong since those guys are chronically banged up and old....
Take OJ Mayo though, he's going to be/already is a superstar, but I wouldn't bet money that he'd win a championship.... unless he starts to figure out how to make ppl around him better. I think Jrue is a good pick who will definitely contribute to a winning organization, even if he's selected in the high lottery.
GMs work to build championships... or at least they should.
i saw every game ucla played( except the arizonia game) and i must say he never showed any SUPERSTAR potenial...he did show potenial good nba player though..but no allstar or superstar potenial
wait a min....westbrook plays pg in the nba but played sg in at ucla with the same system and better players around him correct?
http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_mock_drafts/25013- check it out and post
i just realized that youre using youre brothers name.josh...did he decide if hes going to carolina or duke?
whos youre brother? he play football or basketball?..i recall in a different fourm u saying you play or played and i wonder if thats tru or not because alot of people come on here claiming to be someone else
superstars arent just high volume scorers they are very very good players..micheal redd isnt a super star yet hes a high volume score ..thats the worst definition of a super star i have ever heard...baron davis isnt a super star...are u serious????..and jru hasnt even shown allstar potenial..like i said tell me which game hes shown this and ill check it out......and to uncfan my name is kurtis rice went to charlston southern and played this year in finland..my brother is josh huestis hes a jr in highschool in montana and he actually will probably decide on carolina or arizona
i said baron is a superstar...
and michael redd still gets paid superstar money... but his team sucks.... correlation?
i'd bet money on Jrue winning a championship over redd too.
Kurtis, I guess, define superstar.
wait did he really say baron davis is a superstar?.....and as far as winning a championship its about team if you put jru on the wizards they will not make the playoffs nor if you put jru on golden state the year they made it...plus jru will not i repeat WILL NOT be as good as either of those players when they were healthy and at there best..you really think if a healthy gilbert and a healthy baron davis was in this years draft that jru would get picked ahead of either??
baron is definitely a superstar... in my book
and not necessarily saying he'll make the playoffs in his first year... but i truly believe that Jrue is a winner who will do whatever it takes to win, a la tayshaun, battier, posey
baron most certainly would not have been picked behind Jrue... Gil, probably... he's like 6'1... Jrue is 6'4... isn't that all GMs look at? ;)
I think Jrue would be a GREAT fit in Golden State.... he can matchup with 2's so Monta doesn't have to, but he can also run the point on offense, again, so Monta doesn't have to. I don't think the same is true for the Wiz, Gil needs the ball too much.
baron davis is not a superstar and if jru is thought to lead a team to a nba championship then i would think he would be the number one pick or at least the number one pg picked...i liek jru as much as the next guy but i dont see him leading a team to the nba championship..he may one day be part of a championship team but not leading one. i have a question though that i guess is like josh..when has he shown that he will lead a nba team to a championship or even shown that he will be better then baron or gilbert? and just because you get superstar money doesnt make you a superstar..it just means a team overpayed for you..its just like a player getting drafted higher then you..it doesnt mean they are a better player
"liek jru as much as the next guy but i dont see him leading a team to the nba championship"
besides griffin, name one person in this draft who will LEAD a team to an NBA championship.
a superstar is a player who can dominate a game as well as make other players bettereither dominate by getting alot of assists blocks rebounds points...jru doesnt have the make up to dominate a game in any of thoses catagories..he has the make up to do well in some of them but not dominate. he hasnt shown the potenial of any of the superstars in the leauge not once he never dominated in one game in points rebounds assists blocks steals anything...he also didnt show that he can adapt to different systems other then the system he had in highschool. and that ucla system is a halfcourt system as a couple ucla people has pointed out which is run by alot of nba teams
Kurtis, the point (no pun intended) is that JRUE IS A PG... PGs generally dominate the game with their assists.... JRUE DIDN'T PLAY PG AT UCLA......
HE NEVER DOMINATED IN ASSISTS AT UCLA BECAUSE DC PLAYED PG
HE DIDNT SHOW HE COULD ADAPT TO A NEW SYSTEM BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO ADAPT TO A NEW POSITION
lol..you really think his height matters if baron davis is on the board in the draft..yeah they look at height but if a player is better then they will select that player instead because hes better...josh why you even arguing with this guy..its obvious that hes in love with jru and in his eyes jru can do no wrong...im a big ucla game and i watched the same jru as other ucla and even though i think he will be a good nba player theres no way id take him over baron or gilbert..i wouldnt take him over...d harris, c paul, deron williams, rondo, rose, rubio..i wouldnt even take him over wall and im not even a big fan of walls...does anyone else have a unbiased opinion because its obvious that his is very biased
first of all Gil was a 2nd round pick....and i said GMs would have taken Baron AHEAD of Jrue.
never said i would take jrue over either of these guys, i'm just saying neither really has a chance to win a championship because they play to make money, not to win games.
i wouldn't take jrue over any of the guys bryant mentioned either... never said that.
only time will tell with Jrue. I hope he proves all you folks wrong
youre not the first person to notice his biased opnion towards jru...the most acurate assessment ive seen on here about jru was madmax
I think he ran that UCLA offense fine though, when he was actually playing PG. Playing SG is not really playing to his strengths, nor will it be his NBA position.
Of course he didn't get that much time actually running the point, and of that time I watched even less of it.
I don't know what kind of stats he would have averaged at PG with starter's minutes. But the more telling result would have been UCLA's record with Holiday vs. with Collison. I am somewhat torn between which would have done better as full-time starter. Holiday is more dynamic, but Collison was a 4-year starter and a good college PG in his own right.
if he was a better pg then jru would have played the point more than dc...i remeber when dee brown and deron was at ill..even though dee was shorter and started out as the pg deron got moved to the pg position because he was a better pg and beat out dee....or they would alternate them at the pg postition because of how good deron was...i didnt see that at ucla...and jru didnt even dominate in assist at the highschool level so where are you getting he could have dominated in assists?..plus if youre a good passer you dont have to play pg to rack up assists...did jru even have one 10assist game?
After reading all of the comments, the one thing that jumped out at me was that somebody wrote that Ben Howland doesn't know how to develop talent for the NBA?
Jordan Farmar, Arron Afflalo, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute... Darren Collison will be a solid NBA backup for years and has the potential to step up to be an Aaron Brooks type player. All of these players thrived in Ben Howland's offensive system and are all turning out to be solid pros. (Yes, Afflalo has been slow to develop on the offensive side of the ball, but he's solid on defense and still has time to improve his offensive game.)
And if you watch UCLA closely, you would have seen Alfred Aboya go from being a defense-only player to a respectable offensive option for the Bruins this year.
Howland gave Holiday plenty of opportunities to run the point. DC didn't play every minute of every game. Holiday didn't thrive because he was tentative and inconsistent. Whether he thrives in the NBA remains to be seen. I honestly don't have a strong sense of his future... But don't bash Howland for his lack of success because plenty of players have and will thrive in his offense.
he didnt play pg because darren right now is a better pg then he is.in a couple of years that will change though..jru did a couple of things i liked this year and a couple things i didnt like. i dont think anyone has said hes gonna be a bum, most people on here are saying he should be a good nba player and no one thinks hes gonna be a star/superstar (except xbadger) i dont think he will be a all star for one because i dont see it and two he doesnt have the same potential as at least 4 of the young pg in the nba now who will be allstars soon or are already allstars
Somebody show me where i said that Jrue would be a Star or Superstar.
and for the record i hated Jrue when he played at UCLA- he never lived up to my expectations... maybe because he was playing SG
i agree jantheman
by the way he isnt 6'4..hes listed at 6'3 so chances are hes either that or 6'2..not that it really matters if his arms end up being long...another thing is he will struggle to denfend player sin the nba at first just like westbrook struggled this year on defense and how rondo( who was the top defensive pg when he was in college) struggled
you said you would pick him over baron in the draft. you said baron is a superstar...unless you mean you would pick jru over baron because he fits on a certain team in which case youd probably get fired if you were the gm. portland decided to pick same bowie because he fit better then jordan since they already had clyde...im sure a shooting guard would fit in okc city then a pf since they have jeff green but i bet you if okc had the first pick they wouldnt be thinking ( hey james harden fits with our team so well so wel will pick him over blake because we already have jeff green
yall yall are funny...yall basically are argueing about something yall both agree on...xbader said earlier that jru will be a solid nba player..josh also said jru will be a solid nba player but not a superstar..after josh said he wont be a superstar xbadger starts argueing with him about that even though xbadger never says jru is gonna be a super star
i mean i love arguing for argument's sake and i don't like to see a kid get bashed cuz he didn't play his natural position....
and i'm studying for the CPA which is probably the most boring thing ever, and this gives me something to do besides read about partnership agreements and what happens with the assets of a partnership upon dissolution....
i was just making a point about Baron and how NBA loves scorers........ i would NEVER TAKE Jrue over Baron davis, but i might bet on him winning a championship over baron....... that is alllllllllll
lol thats tru they are argueing the same point xbadger seems to take offense to josh saying he hasnt seen the superstar potenial even though xbadger never says jru is gonna be a superstar he argues about it like he thinks he will be a superstar other wise why argue about josh saying he doesnt see jru as a superstar/star
dont get us wrong xbadger...you and josh is what makes chatting on these things so interesting because of yall a bunch of other peopel have come to this disscussion and put there 2 cents in including me...yall are very entertaining..its never fun when you have everyone agreeing on one thing
yea lol, all of my posts have been on this thread cuz usually i just read.... but when i started hearing all this garbage about KOBE and RAY being able to shine if they were playing 3 instead of 2 I just had to get an account and say something about that.....
lol...yeah i wont go into a room and say anything if everyone is in agreement...B you need to check out the rubio one a couple days ago..we talked about that for about a week..most of the people was on his bandwagon even though all they seen was highlight tapes and they didnt like the fact that i wasnt aboard after being in spain and seeing him play a couple times
i remeber that..i heard tarq gave him the business..you know trajon won the title in russia right?..i might be goign over there and playing wit c bobs team..they dont have a sf
ummmm yeah it doesnt matter what position kobe plays and ive seen ray destroy teams while playing the three when paul was hurt most superstars can play more than one position and still dominate
he was in austria this past year....they have a site thats like nba.com called eurobasket.com that has all our stats and schedule and stuff up there