Josh Smith to Celtics talks
Celtics are in talks with Atlanta for Josh Smith.. Big holdup is Paul Pierce. Celtics don't want to part with Pierce. Something could still happen.
Also, Hawks are determined to move Smith by Thursday.
Would Jeff Green be involved because that would make a little more sense form Atlanta's side. I still hope he goes to either Brooklyn or Houston
I've actually heard all along Smith would sign with the C's in the Offseason...Him and Rondo are like best friends..
If they can deal Pierce and/or Green for him that would save them some money so they can sign him to an extension...Always loved Pierce but they should trade him for future benefits,..was hoping he could go to a contender though...
Was this is an article? Link?
I would love to see the fire KG could potentially light under Smith.
I'd love to see Smith with my Celtics, but under no circumstances would I trade Paul Pierce, even if its the right move at the time. Dude re-upped with us for less money so they could improve their depth, and he'd the leader of this team, just as KG is the heart.
I like our chances of signing him in the off-season for the reasons stated, and I really want to keep Green too. A Green, Smith, Rondo, Sullinger, Bradley core is amongst the best in the NBA looking forward, all are excellent defenders (outside of Sully) and Rondo helps everyone score.
If we can get rid of Bass and Terry I'd be happy, but otherwise I'm content to stand pat and wait for the off-season.
However if the Celtics want to pair Smoove with Rondo they may have to move now and move Pierce. If the Celtics were to wait until free agency look what they have tied up in money already. Pierce(15.3 mil), Rondo(12 mil), Jeff Green(8.7 mil), Brandon Bass(6.7 mil), Courtney Lee(5.2 mil), Jason Terry(5.2 mil), Avery Bradley(2.5 mil), Jared Sullinger(1.3 mil), Fab Melo(1.3 mil). That's already 58.54 mil tied into next year and that's this year cap max, and this is all assuming KG retires if he stays that puts them 10 mil over the cap. Josh Smith is looking for at least 12-13 mil a year, so no matter how you fool around with his contract and back loading it, it will take more than giving a team Boston's first rounder to take on Bass or Terry in order to land Smith this offseason. Pierce or a combo of Bass+Green/Lee/or Terry has to be made.
I'd be willing to part with Sullinger if it meant making room for Smith, if we package him with Terry or Bass for an expiring contract that gives us another another 8 or so million, then we might be forced to amnesty whichever of Terry or Bass we couldn't move, which is another 5-7 million, leaving us approximately 13-15 million to sign Smith, assuming KG retires (although I'm not 100% sure on how the cap works with retirement).
We might have to trade Lee as well, that might not be too hard though, he's a valuable piece and I think a number of teams would be happy to have him (Chicago for example).
At the end of the day, we might just have to exceed to cap some, but it'd be worth it to see Pierce off in style and give the young guys they bring in another year of tutelage.
Josh Smith what does he do better then Jeff Green ? Jeff isn't getting starter minutes because he is Pierce designated backup, but is a pretty good starter caliber player.
Here is what I don't get, Celtics fans. Maybe omphalos can answer this, maybe others can.
Danny Ainge made a statement about how he doesn't wanna do the same thing the Celtics did in the early 90s when they held onto Bird and McHale, saying he would make "the good business decision".
Well, here it is. He can trade KG to the Clips, he can trade Pierce to Atlanta, or maybe another team like Indiana, and get considerable assets in return. The Celtics have 0 chance at winning the title. 0. They will be lucky to get out of the first round. They couldn't beat the Heat with Rondo playing at a high level, and Pierce and KG a year younger, yet they think they stand any chance this year? I get that it's a veteran team, I get that they won a title together, and Doc believes in them. But the fact is, they are in no mans land, a 6-8 seed who has no shot at going on a deep playoff run. I know they have this *belief* that they can exceed expectations, but if you can come away with Bledsoe, Jordan, and Smith going forward to go with Rondo, Avery, Green and Sullinger, it is the GOOD BUSINESS MOVE. But it appears they won't do this.
Well said, I hope they don't potentially ruin the next few years because of sentimental reasons..
Ainge needs to get something out of them while he still can...
At the end of the day, Ainge might just have some sour grapes because he was moved on but Bird and McHale were retained.
I don't think Jordan is worth the money he's getting, Bledsoe doesn't make sense when we already have Bradley and Rondo in the backcourt and we wouldn't be able to re-sign him for a back-up's wage.
Smith is a good player, but he needs the support of real veterans to help him tap his potential, if you trade away KG and Pierce, you are dramatically decreasing the value of Smith, because the Smith in Atlanta isn't worth the effort, but what Smith could be with a year or two of seasoning alongside KG and Pierce is.
This isn't just sentimental, KG and Pierce are invaluable in terms of providing leadership and mentoring the next generation, and let's not forget they are still performing at a high level. No, we won't win a championship in the next year or two, but we already have a young core in the wings waiting to step up when KG and Pierce retire. Sullinger, Melo (eventually), Rondo, Bradley and Green form a starting 5 with great upside and all the bases covered.
If we could get Smith somehow without giving up too much, great. Otherwise he just isn't worth it to me.
I guess I just don't understand why you would prefer to have two years of Garnett and Pierce "mentoring" players, than acquiring assets. It just sounds like a sentimental state of mind, not a business state of mind.
Bledsoe can play the one and two. Rondo tore his ACL 3 weeks ago, its not like he's coming back right away. And Although Jordan has a questionable contract, who would the Celtics have under contract if they dumped KG and Pierce? Really no one, so overpaying one guy wouldn't be too bad. I get that you have some decent players going forward, but the Bledsoe is 22 and Jordan is 24, acquiring them seems like it would be more worth some veteran mentoring for a couple more seasons. If you trade Pierce for Smith, you are getting a much younger player again. Now you have Rondo, Bradley, Green, Smith, and Jordan, with Bledsoe and Sullinger coming off the bench? To me, that sounds like a darn good foundation. Also keep in mind they can trade Rondo for considerably good pieces back.
I guess I'm just super intrigued by the amount of moves the Celtics COULD make right now, and am disappointed that Danny Ainge claimed to be the type of guy who would make such moves if possible, but is totally not following through with that.
Well, Boston isn't like most teams, when they "rebuild" they can do it through free agency, and a big part of that is the culture and loyalty the franchise has shown to its stars. The Spurs probably aren't going to win another title with Duncan, but they keep him around because he showed them loyalty and is a great presence in the locker-room, and of course, because he's still producing. Boston has to show a similar loyalty to Pierce (and to an extent KG) so that players who sign there will fill comfortable knowing they won't be shipped off as soon as they start to slip a little - especially after Pierce re-signed for less money for the good of the franchise.
Bledsoe can play 1 and 2, but I still think we'd be forced to pay an exorbitant amount for what would amount to a bench player, given that Bradley and Rondo are pretty much locked in for the foreseeable future. Signing Jordan would delay the rebuilding process if anything, especially without KG to teach him a few things. They just used a first round pick on a young 7-footer in Melo who while less athletic, can have just as much impact as Jordan in a year or two, and is younger, and much cheaper. I look at the players we have available, and none of them are really better than the guys we have in-house with the exception of Smith, but he is a guy who more than anyone needs the right support to be great given his mental lapses and disciplinary issues.
Mentoring players is an investment in the future, assets aren't everything; look at Sacramento, Washington and Minnesota; they went all in on a rebuild and it wasn't until they brought in some veterans to help out the young guys that the latter two found any success, and that's the reason why the former hasn't yet.
Going completely young can be detrimental without the proper supports in place to make sure you get the most out of those assets. Look at Avery Bradley; he was a mid-first rounder who blossomed into one of the best perimeter defenders out there and a developing scorer, Sullinger again is a guy who will benefit immensely from KG's tutelage once he gets healthy again.
The point is, lottery picks and assets aren't all they are cracked up to be, you need the framework in place to see those investments pay off, and with Pierce and KG they have that.
Yes, I'm intrigued by the amount of moves the Celtics COULD make too, but I think too many of these trade scenarios are change for change's sake and don't represent the best long-term outcomes.
What they have with KG and Pierce is a dead end. That in 2 years, they will probably retire, and the Celtics will get nothing to show for them.
Yes they can rebuild through free agency, but remind me the last time a big time free agent signed with the Celtics....
The Spurs have the best record in the NBA right now so arguing they are hanging onto old guys is completely different; I totally believe the Spurs are favored to make it the conference finals, and could realistically make it to the finals.
Your comparison was with the Kings, Minnesota, and Washington is way off, because you are picking poorly ran organizations that have made numerous draft and free agency mistakes. The Kings have never gotten a truly great draft pick, have no free agent alure at all, and have picked up a bunch of ball hog knuckleheads. Minnesota has picked 3 PGs in one draft, and 4 SFs in another draft. They've also overpaid JJ Barea and Andrei Kirilenko. Washington refused to bring in anyone with any sense of experience, then trade valuable assets to obtain old washed up players to solve the problem. Sure it hasn't worked for those 3, but those 3 have messed up, and those are relatively smaller market teams in comparison to the Celtics. The Celtics have drafted phenomenally with low picks in the last 5-6 years, so why wouldn't they be able to pick good players going forward? There is no guarantee KG and Pierce are going to improve players they have in place, just by sheer prescence, and the second those guys leave, it means nothing for the organization. Having "loyalty" means nothing. Good GMs, well ran organizations make the tough decisions. San Antonio had a dynasty based on good draft picks and good management. The Thunder have became a powerhouse under that same logic. No mans land means nothing in this league, ask the Rockets who were the definition of mediocrity. Once you fall off that front line, which the Celtics definitely have, the smartest move is to rebuild.
If anything, Pierce will not be traded. I don't think Atlanta will get great offers for smith, and, if we are choosing between Kris Humphries and Marshon Brooks, or Jeff Green and complementary players, then I'm taking the Celtics package every day. Terrence Williams was not signed just to be a point forward. He was signed to restock the small forward depth.
Stop being foolish pls! Boston has no one Danny Ferry would want. Only way they get Smith is if a third team is involved. Theyve talked about Garnet to LA, so maybe Garnet to LA, Bledsoe/Jordan to ATL and Smith to Boston. This will be a move for the future. Boston will then most likely move Pierce as well to have $$$ to sign D12. This doesnt sound feasible I know, but neither does any Boston-Atlanta trades you can ponder up. And pls do not say "Its better just to get something for Smith." Its much better to let him walk, than it is to take on dumb contracts and to continue to be a mid-level team. Danny Ferry would rather let him walk for nothing and to rebuild period. Not such a bad idea in next year's draft either.
Say that, I'm pretty sure Avery Bradley would be a nice young piece the Hawks would want and Jeff Green could be their future Small forward going further he's playing with nice athletisim this year so he's healthy this year. But if I'm the Celtics I would have a tuff to decision to make.. How much do I value Josh Smith and what am I willing to give up for a player of his calibar (Could be a All star year end and year out). The Hawks might have the most control in the deal though being that its all up to what they're looking for.
Danny Ferry is a smart general manager, so I'm sure he'll make the best choice moving forward.
Not that I think itll happen, or that its a good deal, but this is the only way Boston gets Smith. As for Boston trading Pierce/KG- it can be the best for the players as well. Another real shot at winning a championship. Its not like itll be KG or Pierce chasing a title, but its a mutual decision both the players and teams that they should part ways.
Clips- Get KG and Pierce for a year or 2, and size off the bench. Go for it all NOW! Paul-Barnes?-Pierce-Griffin-Garnet
Hawks- Gets a center with promise, and a pg. Teague has made strides, but he hasnt convinced anyone that he's their future pg.
Celtics- Gets Smith, and sheds enough salary to go after Howard. Rondo-Bradley-Greene-Smith-Howard. Boston never turns on their players, a la Laker fans. He'll love to go to Boston.
I thought Smith to Philly for Hawes plus Turner or Young would be a good deal, but Philly appearantly are not interested. Do you think this is just to get his value down? ALso- pls describe Young's game. Can he be a full time sf in the league? I see hes always been a combo pf type.
Thad Young is a very solid starter averaging 15 and 7.5 leading Philly's frontcourt this season. He's definitely a full time starter, he's a glue guy, rugged, tough, gets the job done, can score and be an offensive weapon, but also a very effective defender, he could be a top 3-4 player on a very solid contender, but he's played very well as Philly's number 2 this season. That's why they don't want to give him up for someone who might leave this summer.
Thad and Holiday are the only players that I don't want the Sixers to trade. Smith is very similar to Young and Thad has a decent contract so this deal wouldn't make sense. They already look foolish for trading for Bynum on his last year of his contract so giving up Thad for Smith would not make sense...it isn't like he would put them over the top this season...they likely won't make the playoffs regardless.
I don't believe that front court would be ideal for the hawks, I personally would much rather add a legitimate Defensive presence next to Horfod. Delembert seems to be on the market maybe they should get a 3 way trade involving The Hawks ,The 76ers and the Milwaukee bucks.
Hawks give: Josh Smithand Jon Jenkins
Hawks receive: Avery Bradley, Samuel Dalembert, Brandon Bass and Courtney Lee
Celtics give: Avery Bradley, Brandon Bass and Courtney Lee
Celtics receive: Josh Smith and Jon Jenkins
Bucks give: Samuel Dalembert
Bucks receive: Anthony Morrow
This trade gives a different dynamic that's needed for each team.
I'm sorry I think josh smith is worth way more than what Boston can give; Smith and LeBron are the only players in the NBA that average at least 15 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assists. Any player Boston offers isn't anything Atlanta wants, a third team will need to be included(Minnesota or Denver) to give Atlanta the legit 7 footer that they want
Why would the Hawks want Jeff Green? Just down load any Bill Simmons podcasts about how stupid it was for Celtics to give Green that albatross of a contract after he had heart surgery.
If the Hawks that stupid, they should just fold the team.
Included an unprotected pick I would pass.
Josh Smith is going to be a free agent and he's asking for a Max contract, something the hawks aren't willing to give him and rightfully so. The hawks aren't winning a championship with Josh Smith being your most paid player. They need to get some pieces that fit their core . Trading away Smith could be a blessing for the hawks, it'll allow Jeff teague to further his development (he also has a contract extention coming up)
Nobody takes more bad jump shots per game than Josh Smith. He has always been immature and a knucklehead which is why no one wants to give the contract he's asking for. He shot .386 and .404 in his last two post seasons respectively and he is an expiring contract and has never been an all star. He's peaked as a player as well and isn't gonna make any great leaps in the future as his athleticism will eventually decrease a la Gerald Wallace. He is ridiculously talented but his trade value isn't that great for a reason.
Said if he was Danny he would stay put with PP and KG. I agree. Their deals are fine based on what level of play they are showing. They are not banged up like Kevin and Bird were. I trade Green and a few others for Smith but not PP. It does not make B Ball sense. Every young team needs veterans to win. Why not have a still very very good KG and PP instead of washed up guys? Celtics are a young team they should relax maybe make a small move. If you can grab Smith while keeping PP the C's become championship challenging worthy. Keep PP and try to add Smith. You could deal some people in the off season and still grab Smith who might take a lil less to play with Rajon. Be a smart GM don't play yourself. PP is far from done.
First off let me say that Josh Smith is not a max contract player. I doubt that anyone gives him max money this summer.
The Hawks have made it clear that they won't either and it has hurt Josh's feelings. Letting him walk in free agency for absolutely nothing this summer makes zero sense.
The only trade that I've heard that I don't want to go down is the Nets deal. Kris and Marshon just isn't anything I'm interested in. Who wants to pay Mr. Kardashian that much money next season?
The Celtics have the best offer if Green is included. Atlanta doesn't want Pierce nor do they want Terry or Bass like someone above said. Neither of those guys would do anything for them and if it came down to that I'd try to get him to take a little less money this summer (Al Horford money) to come back.
If the Spurs were to part with Kawhi Leonard then I'd take their deal but I doubt they do that. He's too valuable to their team going forward.
If Josh Smith has indicated that he will walk away for nothing in the summer then a deal with Boston could be a good one for Atlanta and Boston would need to acquire Smith via a trade and resign him as they would not have cap space to get him any other way I think.
Atlanta getting a package of Bradley, Green and one or a couple of Sullinger, Melo, Wilcox, Dooling and Collins balances the salaries nicely. If Danny Ferry would be prepared to take on Jeff Green's contract then the trade looks good, Atlanta get a couple of good replacements in plus maybe a project and they still have cap space to make a run at a major FA this summer.
Boston get a core of Smith, Rondo, PP and KG and it gives them to immediate long term building blocks in Smith and Rondo who will be there when PP and KG retire. Backed by Brass, Terry, Lee and co this line up should be a play off team for the next few years and once the veterans move on then they rebuild around Rondo and Smith.