[JoeWolf1]

 I know the combine is the combine, and having a high vert doesn’t mean you can play, but when a guy is already skilled tests measures and tests better than anticipated it can really have a positive effect on his stock.  Jon Leur is athletic, he is 6’11.5” in shoes,  has a 36.5” max vert, hit 17 on the bench and ran and his agility drill was faster than Keith Benson and Jeremy Tyler ( two players known for natural athletic ability).  He has questions about being a non agressive rebounder, but do these testings paired with the fact he’s a 7 footer with a good shot and IQ vault his stock?  

There are a lot of views on how much the combine matters, and I’m one of the guys who thinks it can, but it’s not something to go crazy over.  That being said, Leur is a skilled, smart player and I feel these measurements and tests do answer some negative criticism he’s gotten.  I think Leur could end up squeaking in the end of the 1st round or being one of the first guys off the board in the 2nd round.

Thoughts?

[i’m jus so offendedParticipant]

 well first you gotta learn how to spell the dude’s name…and based on that, this obviously is not the real Joe Wolf…

[Moon RiverParticipant]

He is definitely a PF and not a center and the best comparison I can come up with is a more athletic Brad Miller or a poor man’s Kurt Thomas.  If he has a career anywhere near Miller or Thomas, I would call it a success.  I wouldn’t mind seeing the Bulls pick him up with one of their 2 late 1st round picks.

[Allen_Iverson_3Participant]

I think Leuer, as a senior, lacks the potential + is maybe a bit soft (or non-aggressive as you say) to go in the top 20 but I see him being drafted between 25 and 40.

To put it simply, I agree with what you said.

[KDThunder35Participant]

Joe,

I am a big fan of John Leure, and his testing was great and I hope it helps him get drafted higher.  But these measurements are fairly bogus.  Yes he did test well with the vert and shuttle run, but it is how you perform athletically during actual play.

Remember that OJ Mayo had a higher vert in the combine testing than Derrick Rose.  But how many more highlight dunks and athletic plays does Rose have over Mayo?  It’s all about how athletic you are in game situations.

[JoeWolf1]

 That’s a good point, KDThunder35, I wonder why they don’t do a second jump test. 

I remember in Shane Battier’s draft class they did a test where a player would dunk it in a row as many times as they could before getting tired.  Jump endurance is a big part of basketball.  Shane tested out of this world with like 16 or 18 something( pulled from memory so it may not be 100% accurate), and I don’t know if they still do that or if they just don’t release the results.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

Jon Leuer sounds pretty good.  Great size, good fundamentals who can shoot and spread the floor.  If he is a decent rebounder then I think he is worth a look from contending teams.  I think the Heat should look at him with their pick if all the good point guards are gone.  I think the Heat need a point guard, but there second biggest need is getting a center who can score some (with a future center rotation of Joel Anthony, Leuer, and Dexter Pittman). 

If Leuer can do what Bill Wennington could do for the Bulls (hit open jumpers, get some rebounds, get some dunks, not make bad plays) then he would be good on the Heat, Thunder, Mavs, and other great teams.

He also sounds similar to guys like Joe Kleine and Jon Koncak, guys who weren’t the best but were servicable centers for over a decade.  And those guys were picked in the lottery I think.  If you get a player like that in the late first, early second round then you are getting a pretty good player and a great value. 

The Spurs might want to take a look at him at 29 (along with Benson if he is still there).  They are supposedly looking for a big man to play next to Tim Duncan, even though I think that their biggest need is at small forward (Richard Jefferson is too old, they need an explosive 3.  And with Duncan, Bonner, Blair, and Splitter you have 4 decent big men and not much more minutes to go around).   Chandler Parsons might be a better fit for the Spurs (athletic, can do some of everything). 

The second round this year seems like a halfway decent draft for role players who can fill a team’s need.  So if your team needs a big man then you have to look at Leuer, Benson, Vernon Macklin, and guys like that if they are still there.  No need picking a guy that you don’t really need (for instance, the Knicks getting a small forward when they already have Carmelo Anthony and Shawne Williams, and have bigger holes to fill at center). 

[JNixonParticipant]

Jon Leuer is Matt Bonner 2.0. He’s a 6’11 PF who shoots 3’s, lacks athleticism, and plays smart. He’ll struggle against the PF’ he’ll defend usually, but his fundamentals and size will help him some. Below average on the glass and not very strong in his base.

[sheltwon3Participant]

I think Jon Leur improved his position or solified himself as a high secound rounder.  This draft is starting to be more interesting to me because while there may be unknown, there are people that could surprise.  Leur could do that but in order for him to take advantage of some of this hype with testing and measurements, he will have to get stronger.

[kobyzParticipant]

he is more skilled than you think, he remind me Charlie Villanueva

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

Pretty much every team in the league could use a backup center.  Leuer and Benson should be in high demand.  Both guys aren’t that big but they can score. 

On most draft boards I see a bunch of 6’2-6’4 combo guards in the latter half of the second round.  Those guys are a dime a dozen.  Why not go after big guys with an NBA skill (yeah, being almost 7 feet tall with a decent jumper are actual NBA skills), or an experienced college big man with some upside (Vernon Macklin).  

I would also rather look at guys like Alex Tyus (good athlete, good hops) and Josh Harrelson (great rebounder in college, ok size) than another 6’2 tweener.  If Alex Tyus pans out then you have a guy like Taj Gibson or Udonis Haslem (guys who have been effective in this postseason).  If Harrelson pans out you have a younger version of Nick Collison (who gave Dirk fits and kept the Thunder in games).  Gibson, Haslem, Collison, and even Darrell Arthur have been some of the most effective bench guys in the playoffs this year.  Some other big guys with more size than skill have also been effective (Kendrick Perkins, Haywood, Asik, Pachulia, Jason Collins).  Joel Anthony is a blend of both types as an undersized center with one good skill (blocking shots) who’s other good attributes are his ability to take up space, bang inside, get a few rebounds, and play smart basketball.  Backup point guards who play 10-15 minutes a night (at most) haven’t really made much of a difference.  CJ Watson, Maynor, and Chalmers haven’t really made much of a difference.  Guys like that are easily replaceable.  JJ Barea has played very well but he has an elite skill (great speed) and has good scoring skills.  So that could help a guy like Isaiah Thomas who has elite speed even though he is undersized and more of a scorer than a distributor.  So if you are a late second round point guard without elite speed or an elite shot then you probably aren’t a great value.  Better to bring  a guy like Kalin Lucas (who will probably go undrafted) into training camp as a free agent than waste a draft pick on a poor man’s Eric Maynor.

[GlenTaylorSucksParticipant]

I completely agree with the Matt Bonner 2.0 comparison. As a Badger, I’ve watched Leuer play for the last 4 years, and let me tell you, if he plays C in the NBA, he will be torn to shreds. He does not play well down low; he’s much more comfortable on the perimeter.

[AKOOParticipant]

The guy is just a pick and pop guy. He is not going to give you anything else consistently at the next level. I watched him play several times and I would not waste a 1st rounder on him. 2nd round pick and if he works out he does, if not owe well, no guaranteed contract anyway.

[TRC1991Participant]

Jon Leuer = Ryan Anderson

[Jayhawks2011Participant]

This kid went to my high school.  Kid was a 6’1 freshman.  He has improved a ton in his four years at Wisc.  He put up big numbers in a system that is slow paced.  If he gets in the right situation he could be a great player.  I agree that he will be a Ryan Anderson at worst. 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

“Thoughts?”

He was just as big and just as athletic when good Big Ten teams and Butler in the Sweet Sixteen exposed his weaknesses. Unless there is news that Leuer has a functional left hand, he is still a stretch big man with unimpressive shooting numbers from the outside. Leuer is no different from any of the others. Jeremy Tyler has the look of an NBA player, but has been a lousy pro since taking on the task of playing pro basketball. Someone needs to sell me on a guy who fouled at the rate he did in Japan (7 per 40 minutes), turned the ball over the way he did (5.9 per 40 minutes), and was a mediocre finisher (51.7 percent from the field and 45.4 percent from the line) being anything more than a big, athletic flier who in an ideal world would not be on an NBA roster next fall and instead either getting minutes in the NBDL or abroad. Josh Selby has not magically become a point guard because of 1-on-1s and 3-on-3s. All he has done is had time go by to let that stench of a freshman season let out. It still happened, it still is indicative of where he is at, but the people who thought he was a stud because he worked over high school kids now have had time to forget December-March.

It is nice to have measurements because the listings from colleges are sometimes far from accurate. An assistant coach can write something down for the athletic department during a guy’s freshman year and they just leave it there for as long as the guy is at the school. I thought during the Duke-Michigan game that Darius Morris was much taller than Irving and Nolan Smith. There was no way to know whether that was Morris being bigger than his listed size or Irving/Smith being smaller than what they were listed at. Coming in at 6’5 did not make Morris better, but it does give a better impression of his size/speed/skill ratios. Vucevic is a huge dude. I thought he looked really big this year and he seemed to have really long arms, but I can understand the hesitancy to realize it when USC listed him at 6′ 10″ 220 lbs for his first two years. 6′ 10″ 220 lbs isn’t exactly the same thing as 7′ 0″ 260 lbs. What is considered to be athletic norm for 6’ 10” 220 lbs is not the same for someone who is 7’ 0” 260 lbs.

[Author]

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