[anthony_DavIS23Participant]

I know for a fact that i’m going to get negged for this but here goes…
Why isn’t Joel Embiid the unanimous number 1 or 2 pick, usually everyone overrates centers in the draft, but Joel Embiid is getting severely underrated as a center.

Strengths:
Great size, 7 foot with a 7-5 wingspan
Good hands help him rebound, catch lobs and catch ball in the post
Very athletic runs the floor like a deer, has amazingly quick feet for a 5 which aids his advanced post game.
Already possesses an array of post moves uses a series of pump fakes and head fakes to get open to the hoop, has a very reliable jump hook and his quick feet help blow by other bigs.
Is a rim protector, has great timing when blocking shots.
Good work ethic and nice kid who would get along with everyone.
Very advanced passer for a big.
Not a horrible shooter range does extend to the 3, shot isn’t a factor right now but could be in the future.

Weaknesses:
Low basketball IQ, often gets caught out of position.
Not strong enough for NBA yet.

Definently more strengths then weaknesses already for someone that is supposed to be “all about upside”

[BasterdInABasketParticipant]

He was at #2 for a week until yesterday. I wont argue him maybe at #3 but putting him ahead of Wiggins or Randle is ludicrous. I think every GM and most users on here would agree.

[BasterdInABasketParticipant]

He was at #2 for a week until yesterday. I wont argue him maybe at #3 but putting him ahead of Wiggins or Randle is ludicrous. I think every GM and most users on here would agree.

[jwall1Participant]

In comparison to Smart, Randle, Wiggins, and Parker, he is the most raw. It would be a huge risk to pick someone that may never even pan out. In this draft, IMO he is not worth picking ahead of those guys, but in any other draft he would be top 3 easy….

[jwall1Participant]

In comparison to Smart, Randle, Wiggins, and Parker, he is the most raw. It would be a huge risk to pick someone that may never even pan out. In this draft, IMO he is not worth picking ahead of those guys, but in any other draft he would be top 3 easy….

[Ghost01Participant]

 Its pretty simple for me.

This is supposedly the best draft in 30 years or whatever.

Parker looks like he can score on anyone, and isn’t a terrible teammate like Melo.

Wiggins has a lot of athletic potential, and has some nice 2nd half finishes.

Randle seems like a big time post player, but there are some doubts about his size. Wish I saw more of that versatility he supposedly had in high school.

But regardless, they have all looked like good NBA prospects, and have shown us something that looks like what we thought they would be. 

Embiid looks like a guy who ends up going top 5 in a poor draft. Raw athlete, 7 feet tall, people are enamored with potential, etc. If this guy goes in the top 3, lets end all of the "Best draft ever" talk. He needs so much work, and neeeds to put on so much weight to be a DOMINATING NBA big. STOP with the Hakeem talk. It is utter blasphemy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 Embiid is not as skilled or productive as the other guys at the top of this draft’s big board.  He is, however, still one of the more skilled 7 foot freshmen to play in college basketball in recent years.  He may not be a finished product, but he is not a stiff.

The word "raw" is thrown around too much, preventing an honest discussion of his strengths and weaknesses.  Embiid still has to work on his recognition in the post, but he handles double teams much better than most college bigs.  He establishes post position better than the vast majority of college bigs, although he does let himself get caught under the basket too frequently, which is more of a strength issue than a skill issue.  His court vision is outstanding for a young big.  He has excellent touch around the rim, although he sometimes loses his balance in the lane, resulting in line drives.  His defensive awareness is really extraordinary considering his level of experience.

His physique is outstanding for a player of his age.  Yes, he needs to get stronger, but he will get stronger.  That really shouldn’t be a controversial predicition.  His size is already a plus and his strength should be as well within 5 years.  He has a big frame.  He is the most physically gifted player in the draft class.

The fact is centers just take longer to develop.  Embiid is uncommomly polished for an athletic 7 footer his age, but he still isn’t there yet.  Expecting him to compare skill wise just yet to Jabari Parker is unreasonable.  Center is arguably the most important position in the NBA (point guard may be the most important offensive position, but there is not a scarcity of good pgs in the NBA) and good two-way centers are really expensive and hard to find.  7 footers who are potential low post threats are harder to find than good wings.  

I am of the opinion that Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker are the two best prospects in this class, as of today, but Embiid is right in the mix with a bunch of other players, including Julius Randle, Dante Exum and Marcus Smart, looking to close the gap.  

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 Embiid is not as skilled or productive as the other guys at the top of this draft’s big board.  He is, however, still one of the more skilled 7 foot freshmen to play in college basketball in recent years.  He may not be a finished product, but he is not a stiff.

The word "raw" is thrown around too much, preventing an honest discussion of his strengths and weaknesses.  Embiid still has to work on his recognition in the post, but he handles double teams much better than most college bigs.  He establishes post position better than the vast majority of college bigs, although he does let himself get caught under the basket too frequently, which is more of a strength issue than a skill issue.  His court vision is outstanding for a young big.  He has excellent touch around the rim, although he sometimes loses his balance in the lane, resulting in line drives.  His defensive awareness is really extraordinary considering his level of experience.

His physique is outstanding for a player of his age.  Yes, he needs to get stronger, but he will get stronger.  That really shouldn’t be a controversial predicition.  His size is already a plus and his strength should be as well within 5 years.  He has a big frame.  He is the most physically gifted player in the draft class.

The fact is centers just take longer to develop.  Embiid is uncommomly polished for an athletic 7 footer his age, but he still isn’t there yet.  Expecting him to compare skill wise just yet to Jabari Parker is unreasonable.  Center is arguably the most important position in the NBA (point guard may be the most important offensive position, but there is not a scarcity of good pgs in the NBA) and good two-way centers are really expensive and hard to find.  7 footers who are potential low post threats are harder to find than good wings.  

I am of the opinion that Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker are the two best prospects in this class, as of today, but Embiid is right in the mix with a bunch of other players, including Julius Randle, Dante Exum and Marcus Smart, looking to close the gap.  

[Ghost01Participant]

 Its pretty simple for me.

This is supposedly the best draft in 30 years or whatever.

Parker looks like he can score on anyone, and isn’t a terrible teammate like Melo.

Wiggins has a lot of athletic potential, and has some nice 2nd half finishes.

Randle seems like a big time post player, but there are some doubts about his size. Wish I saw more of that versatility he supposedly had in high school.

But regardless, they have all looked like good NBA prospects, and have shown us something that looks like what we thought they would be. 

Embiid looks like a guy who ends up going top 5 in a poor draft. Raw athlete, 7 feet tall, people are enamored with potential, etc. If this guy goes in the top 3, lets end all of the "Best draft ever" talk. He needs so much work, and neeeds to put on so much weight to be a DOMINATING NBA big. STOP with the Hakeem talk. It is utter blasphemy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BogDon_KryptParticipant]

It should be Hasheem talk.  Hasheem Thabeet that is

[Ebown5Participant]

 Thabeet is not half the athlete that Embiid is. He has hands of stone compared to Embiid, and not even close to the soft touch or the passing ability.

Embiid is not as good a basketball player as any of the other top picks, but the best player in college is not  the same thing as the best prospect.

 

[Ebown5Participant]

 Thabeet is not half the athlete that Embiid is. He has hands of stone compared to Embiid, and not even close to the soft touch or the passing ability.

Embiid is not as good a basketball player as any of the other top picks, but the best player in college is not  the same thing as the best prospect.

 

[BogDon_KryptParticipant]

It should be Hasheem talk.  Hasheem Thabeet that is

[Ghost01Participant]

 Sorry you guys are right. Hakeem all the way. Actually, Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Michael Jordan, and Tom Brady all fused into 1 player = Joel Embiid. 

[Ghost01Participant]

 Sorry you guys are right. Hakeem all the way. Actually, Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Michael Jordan, and Tom Brady all fused into 1 player = Joel Embiid. 

[princejamesParticipant]

I think some of you guys are severely overrating Joel Embiid, I think he is a talented center prospect who should stay in college for 2 to 3 years. For the purpose of developing the needed foundation of skills, strength, and understanding that will prepare him for the high level competition that he will face in the NBA. The comparison to Akeem Olajuwon are unrealistic and not achievable. Akeem Olajuwon was the most skilled center of all – time. Who possessed freakish athleticism, great timing, great anticipation, great post skills combined with great counter movers, off the charts footwork combined with freakish levels of body control, agility and quickness. And remember Akeem needed 4 years of college to develop the needed foundation of skills, strength, and understanding that would help prepare him for the high level competition that he would face in the NBA.

I like the potential and upside of Joel Embiid, but I also like to humble myself when it comes to the development of talented center prospects. Because the reality is that it takes time for young center prospects to develop into very good players.

For example:
1. Patrick Ewing only averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
2. Tim Duncan only averaged 9 points and 9 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
3. David Robinson only averaged 7 points and 4 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
4. Hakeem Olajuwon only averaged 8 points and 6 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
5. Alonzo Mourning only averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
6. Dikembe Mutombo only averaged 4 points and 4 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
7. Brad Daugherty only averaged 8 points and 5 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
8. Rik Smits only averaged 11 points and 5 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
9. Roy Hibbert only averaged 5 points and 3 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
10. Andrew Bogut only averaged 11 points and 8 rebounds his first year playing college basketball

It takes Big Men historically a long time for them to develop properly – Because:
1. They have to learn how to use their physically tools in an efficient matter
2. They have to develop the strength, body control, and footwork needed to play the center position at a high level
3. They have to learn how to fight and win the battle for positioning and angles.
4. They have to develop their ability to utilize anticipation and timing
5. They have to develop the ability to score against or defend against high levels of physical contact
6. They have to develop the ability to play efficiently with-in high levels of traffic

I like Joel Embiid, but I also think that he might end up being a bust if he leaves early. He should stay in school, develop, and become the number one pick in the 2015 or 2016 NBA Draft

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 I think Embiid is not being overrating (except by a couple of posters) for the exact reasons you mentioned.  Big men take longer to develop, so Embiid’s skill level at this extremely early stage in his development is very encouraging.  Plus, he won’t have the early expectations that will lead to him developing bad habits.  He is not going to average as many minutes or points per game as some of the other rookies, but he could be a monster by the time he gets his second contract.  

I also disagree with the assertion that he needs to stay in school to develop.  He is already so physically dominant at the college level that staying for multiple years may only slow his development and lead to bad habits.  He certainly can develop in the NBA if he continues to work on his game.  Since centers tend to be late developers, they also tend to improve more once they get into the NBA than most players.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 *being overrated

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 *being overrated

[princejamesParticipant]

It’s hard to develop if your not playing and are on the bench. He needs playing experience and the opportunity to grow and learn from his mistakes. Yes he possesses great physical tools, but basketball is a game that is dependent on having great skills and great understanding. Two areas that are needed improvement with-in Joel’s overall basketball talents and abilities. The pressure of being a top 5 pick with-out possessing the foundation of skills and understanding that lead to success might be to much for Joel to handle and ultimately might stunt his growth. In life the ability to achieve success and accomplish goals will always be dependent on the utilization of wisdom and preparation. Joel is not ready and should only leave when he’s capable of consistently playing at a very high level.

I am personally tired of players leaving early to go to the NBA when they are not ready. It’s hurts the NBA, who already have many players ( especially centers ) who are not smart enough, are underdeveloped, and not skilled enough to consistently compete at a very high level

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 Roy Hibbert developed despite limited playing time early on.  Joakim Noah did as well.  Possibly becoming bench ridden could stunt his growth, but it isn’t like he isn’t skilled.  He should earn minutes before too long into his NBA career.  Steven Adams and Andre Drummond, neither of whom were not as skilled or productive in college as Embiid, got minutes right away.  Embiid isn’t ready to star in the NBA, but he is ready to get minutes.  He isn’t just a project big; he is very skilled and athletic.  

Colleges are just going to constantly double him in the post and he won’t ever play with a skilled pick-and-roll guard the way he will in the NBA.  The essential offensive skills necessary for an NBA big aren’t going to come just from college ball.  Recent history bears this out.  Tyler and Cody Zeller, Miles and Mason Plumlee, Jared Sullinger, Meyers Leonard and Alex Len failed to see dramatic skill development in college.  Bigs just don’t develop in college the way they do in the NBA, as their responsibilities are much different in the NBA.  

Bigs aren’t going to really develop the feel for rotations and defending the pick-and-roll in college, where teams just don’t get the dribble penetration NBA teams do.  Learning to contest athletic NBA wings at the rim is not going to happen in college, nor is learning how to defend the pick-and-roll against NBA guards.

I don’t mean to imply that skill development can’t occur in college, but in recent years, the NBA has had a pretty solid track record of improving supposedly raw bigs.  Many bigs who seemed unskilled in college, i.e., Miles Plumlee, Steven Adams, Andre Drummond, have shown nice progress in the NBA and this improvement is not just based upon court time.

[thunderjerkParticipant]

Hibbert developed because he stayed four years. You can’t learn to play in the post in the NBA. Not enough time. 

[thunderjerkParticipant]

Hibbert developed because he stayed four years. You can’t learn to play in the post in the NBA. Not enough time. 

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 Roy Hibbert developed despite limited playing time early on.  Joakim Noah did as well.  Possibly becoming bench ridden could stunt his growth, but it isn’t like he isn’t skilled.  He should earn minutes before too long into his NBA career.  Steven Adams and Andre Drummond, neither of whom were not as skilled or productive in college as Embiid, got minutes right away.  Embiid isn’t ready to star in the NBA, but he is ready to get minutes.  He isn’t just a project big; he is very skilled and athletic.  

Colleges are just going to constantly double him in the post and he won’t ever play with a skilled pick-and-roll guard the way he will in the NBA.  The essential offensive skills necessary for an NBA big aren’t going to come just from college ball.  Recent history bears this out.  Tyler and Cody Zeller, Miles and Mason Plumlee, Jared Sullinger, Meyers Leonard and Alex Len failed to see dramatic skill development in college.  Bigs just don’t develop in college the way they do in the NBA, as their responsibilities are much different in the NBA.  

Bigs aren’t going to really develop the feel for rotations and defending the pick-and-roll in college, where teams just don’t get the dribble penetration NBA teams do.  Learning to contest athletic NBA wings at the rim is not going to happen in college, nor is learning how to defend the pick-and-roll against NBA guards.

I don’t mean to imply that skill development can’t occur in college, but in recent years, the NBA has had a pretty solid track record of improving supposedly raw bigs.  Many bigs who seemed unskilled in college, i.e., Miles Plumlee, Steven Adams, Andre Drummond, have shown nice progress in the NBA and this improvement is not just based upon court time.

[Ebown5Participant]

 I don’t like players leaving too early either, but that won’t stop them from doing so. There is no doubt from a personal financial standpoint for these kids that it is a no brainer to come out if you are projected to be a top five pick.

It is encouraging to see a Marcus Smart come back to school, but he most likely cost himself money. 

Development wise it it may be good for Embiid to stay in school, but he won’t. 

This draft is so stacked that he may go anywhere from 1 to 6, but he won’t last any longer than that and my my bet is that one of the teams in the 3-6 range will fall in love with him prior to the draft, fear that he won’t last to their pick, and will try desperately to trade up for him. As good as players like Randle, Parker and Smart are, there are players like them that come along every few years in some form. Guys like a Embiid just don’t come along too often.

 

He is probably a year or two behind where Oden was at the same spot developmentally, but he is just as good of a prospect IMO.

[Ebown5Participant]

 I don’t like players leaving too early either, but that won’t stop them from doing so. There is no doubt from a personal financial standpoint for these kids that it is a no brainer to come out if you are projected to be a top five pick.

It is encouraging to see a Marcus Smart come back to school, but he most likely cost himself money. 

Development wise it it may be good for Embiid to stay in school, but he won’t. 

This draft is so stacked that he may go anywhere from 1 to 6, but he won’t last any longer than that and my my bet is that one of the teams in the 3-6 range will fall in love with him prior to the draft, fear that he won’t last to their pick, and will try desperately to trade up for him. As good as players like Randle, Parker and Smart are, there are players like them that come along every few years in some form. Guys like a Embiid just don’t come along too often.

 

He is probably a year or two behind where Oden was at the same spot developmentally, but he is just as good of a prospect IMO.

[princejamesParticipant]

It’s hard to develop if your not playing and are on the bench. He needs playing experience and the opportunity to grow and learn from his mistakes. Yes he possesses great physical tools, but basketball is a game that is dependent on having great skills and great understanding. Two areas that are needed improvement with-in Joel’s overall basketball talents and abilities. The pressure of being a top 5 pick with-out possessing the foundation of skills and understanding that lead to success might be to much for Joel to handle and ultimately might stunt his growth. In life the ability to achieve success and accomplish goals will always be dependent on the utilization of wisdom and preparation. Joel is not ready and should only leave when he’s capable of consistently playing at a very high level.

I am personally tired of players leaving early to go to the NBA when they are not ready. It’s hurts the NBA, who already have many players ( especially centers ) who are not smart enough, are underdeveloped, and not skilled enough to consistently compete at a very high level

[jwall1Participant]

 Yea they always take longer to develop, but they also tend to be the biggest busts….

[jwall1Participant]

 Yea they always take longer to develop, but they also tend to be the biggest busts….

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 I think Embiid is not being overrating (except by a couple of posters) for the exact reasons you mentioned.  Big men take longer to develop, so Embiid’s skill level at this extremely early stage in his development is very encouraging.  Plus, he won’t have the early expectations that will lead to him developing bad habits.  He is not going to average as many minutes or points per game as some of the other rookies, but he could be a monster by the time he gets his second contract.  

I also disagree with the assertion that he needs to stay in school to develop.  He is already so physically dominant at the college level that staying for multiple years may only slow his development and lead to bad habits.  He certainly can develop in the NBA if he continues to work on his game.  Since centers tend to be late developers, they also tend to improve more once they get into the NBA than most players.

[princejamesParticipant]

I think some of you guys are severely overrating Joel Embiid, I think he is a talented center prospect who should stay in college for 2 to 3 years. For the purpose of developing the needed foundation of skills, strength, and understanding that will prepare him for the high level competition that he will face in the NBA. The comparison to Akeem Olajuwon are unrealistic and not achievable. Akeem Olajuwon was the most skilled center of all – time. Who possessed freakish athleticism, great timing, great anticipation, great post skills combined with great counter movers, off the charts footwork combined with freakish levels of body control, agility and quickness. And remember Akeem needed 4 years of college to develop the needed foundation of skills, strength, and understanding that would help prepare him for the high level competition that he would face in the NBA.

I like the potential and upside of Joel Embiid, but I also like to humble myself when it comes to the development of talented center prospects. Because the reality is that it takes time for young center prospects to develop into very good players.

For example:
1. Patrick Ewing only averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
2. Tim Duncan only averaged 9 points and 9 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
3. David Robinson only averaged 7 points and 4 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
4. Hakeem Olajuwon only averaged 8 points and 6 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
5. Alonzo Mourning only averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
6. Dikembe Mutombo only averaged 4 points and 4 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
7. Brad Daugherty only averaged 8 points and 5 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
8. Rik Smits only averaged 11 points and 5 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
9. Roy Hibbert only averaged 5 points and 3 rebounds his first year playing college basketball
10. Andrew Bogut only averaged 11 points and 8 rebounds his first year playing college basketball

It takes Big Men historically a long time for them to develop properly – Because:
1. They have to learn how to use their physically tools in an efficient matter
2. They have to develop the strength, body control, and footwork needed to play the center position at a high level
3. They have to learn how to fight and win the battle for positioning and angles.
4. They have to develop their ability to utilize anticipation and timing
5. They have to develop the ability to score against or defend against high levels of physical contact
6. They have to develop the ability to play efficiently with-in high levels of traffic

I like Joel Embiid, but I also think that he might end up being a bust if he leaves early. He should stay in school, develop, and become the number one pick in the 2015 or 2016 NBA Draft

[hbomb3300Participant]

I think people make the mistake of expecting Embiid to be anything like Hakeem right now…  even Hakeem didn’t put up very good numbers his freshman year.  Big men take a lot of time to fully develop…  especially ones that have only been playing basketball for 3 years.  Very few 7 footers have his touch, post moves, and athleticism so of course he is going to draw comparism to one of those rare players. 

[hbomb3300Participant]

I think people make the mistake of expecting Embiid to be anything like Hakeem right now…  even Hakeem didn’t put up very good numbers his freshman year.  Big men take a lot of time to fully develop…  especially ones that have only been playing basketball for 3 years.  Very few 7 footers have his touch, post moves, and athleticism so of course he is going to draw comparism to one of those rare players. 

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

As much as I hate to admit it, I’d take Wiggins over Embiid. But if I had a top two pick it’d be between the two. 

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

As much as I hate to admit it, I’d take Wiggins over Embiid. But if I had a top two pick it’d be between the two. 

[MopgrassParticipant]

He’s come a long way in his shot blocking this year. Last year they complained how infrequent his blocks were. He’s grown a lot just this year (not height-wise).

I still don’t get why Self is limiting his minutes (he’s not always in foul trouble). They also are not getting him the ball enough. I watch all the Kansas games. They just don’t throw to him enough.

I’m a big fan, but what I’m waiting for is the aggression. I would suppose you could teach it. If the man had anything close to Randle’s tenacity, he’d be the #1 pick.

[MopgrassParticipant]

He’s come a long way in his shot blocking this year. Last year they complained how infrequent his blocks were. He’s grown a lot just this year (not height-wise).

I still don’t get why Self is limiting his minutes (he’s not always in foul trouble). They also are not getting him the ball enough. I watch all the Kansas games. They just don’t throw to him enough.

I’m a big fan, but what I’m waiting for is the aggression. I would suppose you could teach it. If the man had anything close to Randle’s tenacity, he’d be the #1 pick.

[Ebown5Participant]

 This is the kind of highlight that makes people think Embiid is like Olajuwon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Irvvb7Y4-w

I don’t think that Oden could have made that play his Freshman year.

 

 

 

 

[Ebown5Participant]

 This is the kind of highlight that makes people think Embiid is like Olajuwon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Irvvb7Y4-w

I don’t think that Oden could have made that play his Freshman year.

 

 

 

 

[anthony_DavIS23Participant]

Is it safe to say he’s the unanimous number 1 or 2 pick now?

[anthony_DavIS23Participant]

Is it safe to say he’s the unanimous number 1 or 2 pick now?

[Author]

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