Jimmer clearly isnt the athletic chump people thought.
Jimmer clearly isnt the athletic chump people thought. He's top 3 in the agility lateral quickness tests. Wait....THAT Jimmer? Kid just loves to prove people wrong. He's done it his whole life and watch out....he's gonna keep on doing it.
Also one of the strongest guys in the draft...
How about that?!
I love the "crotch chop" posts.. +1 for you!
so... Joe Alexander was the most athletic player in his draft too, and look where he is now, dont look too into the combine measurements they dont really mean anything,, plus does jimmer use his athleticism
three completly different style players, and joe alexander cant shoot whereas i dont even need to talk about jimmers shot
Cmon, people talk about athleticism in Jimmer's weak points and it was Alexander's only quality.
If Jimmer has foot speed he can defend if he wants to. That would be a good sign for any team interested in him, because even if he can't be a great scorer in the next level he can be a guy who shoots 3's and isn't that big a liability on D against second string PGs.
Sounds like we have a Jimmer hater among us brethren. (cough...scott....cough)
His vertical numbers are pretty close to Derrick William's numbers.
His speed and agility is pretty good too.
His new comparison might be a taller, stronger JJ Barea with a MUCH better jump shot and better point guard skills. Given how Barea killed the Lakers and Thunder that is probably a good downside comparison for Jimmer.
I think Jimmer put himself in the conversation with the other top point guards like Irving, Knight and Walker. Not sure if any of those guys will be top 5 point guards but they should all be above-average further adding great depth to the point guard position.
I kind of want to see Jimmer on the Kings. He might be the best fit especially if Knight isn't there. Kemba might not be there either. But he would be a good backcourt mate for Tyreke and Thornton. GREAT three guard rotation. Plus, Jimmer has the elite range that Tyreke lacks.
Funny thing, Jimmer probably won't be a Rookie of the Year front runner next year, but I can see him being a strong candidate for 6th man of the year. I would put him in the 2nd team All-Rookie and a top five candidate for 6th man of the year next year.
I also think the Pacers would be a great fit. He and Darren Collison would be a deadly point guard combo. They also have some versatile wing men (Granger, George, Dunleavy, Danthay Jones), a good center (Hibbert) and some nice hustling big men (Hansbrough, McRoberts). He would also be a great backup behind Lowry on the Rockets or to form a fast Lowry-Jimmer small backcourt with Lowry being the defender and passer with Jimmer being the shooter/scorer.
Congrats...he tested high on a skill. Let's put him on the court and have him play defense.
Never say never, JJ. Reddick actually plays some pretty good D now.
Jimmers gotta get it in his head he wants to, though.
haha yeah i will admit I liked him as a college but not as a Nba player, but I also stated in a thread a while back That he became a great player I would admit to everyone I was wrong... I'll make a thread about it actaully.. lets see how he turns out though. plus BKknickfan is right hows he play defense, considering scouts said jackson was guarding one and half men
Also I might add I dont hop on the bandwagon, watch if he bust watch how many of you will turn on him.
“plus does jimmer use his athleticism”
So carrying eleven missionaries to the Sweet Sixteen and beating San Diego State twice was not a use of his athleticism? Being guarded by the supposedly uber athletic defensive stopped Kawhi Leonard and still being the best player on the floor is in no way using his athleticism?
Touche...i can guarantee I wont be falling off or joining any bandwagon....I go to BYU. Gotta ride this guy no homo
well then I respect that, I hope he proves me wrong, Its always good to see people succeed, but I dont like to be caught up in all the hype, I rather be wrong about a player I thought would be just ok and turn into an allstar/superstar then a player I thought was gonna be great and just plain suck. Look at Jennings, everyone was riding his diick, and then he had a sophmore slump and people are saying hes garbage and he cant do this and that GTFOH.
Its always good to freak out over pre combine conditioning drills.
So happy Portland didnt pick Durant cuz he couldnt bench press...
Bench is a fair indicator of strength, finishing after contact around the rim or drawing fouls and getting a good shot of are something that upper body strength has a lot to do with, but overall it's not a great indicator of strength necessary for basketball.
I think a hang clean would be a much better lift to determine overall strength and explosive power, but it's kind of an advanced lift and I don't know if all college programs have their guys doing it, same goes for Euro pros.
I think he could have the physical ability to at least be a solid NBA defender, if not a great one. Just at BYU, he put no effort in and played with poor fundamentals at that end, though that may have something to do with BYU's reliance on him on every offensive possession.
If you will remember a few years back, nobody thought Blake Griffin could defend either because of what he did in college.. But, in college, Oklahoma relied on him so much that when he was in foul trouble, they didnt stand a chance so he had to slack on that end of the floor...
First off, you guys are great (well most of you). I don't get the whole he has to get it in his head that he wants to play defense. It's not something you just turn on. That's like people saying if Kevin Garnett would play more with his back to the basket, if JR Smith didn't have such a low basketball IQ, if Ben Wallace added some scoring with his defense, if Eddy Curry got motivated. You get the point. It's not in some guys to do the things that would make them a complete player. Doesn't mean you can't succeed or be a good player, but defense is also a mentality. You can say that a guy that is the sole offensive focus is going to have a harder time playing defense because he's worn out and that's true, but it doesn't mean he doesn't give the effort that he can and what he's shown on that side of the ball is pathetic.
Someone mentioned JJ Redick and he's worked his butt of on defense to be able to get on the court. He's still not great or really even that good of a defender, but he's good enough to get on the court every night and to be able to play extended minutes against guys like Wade, Kobe and Ginobli without getting oblitherated. Even in college I felt that despite being a poor defender that it had nothing to do with the effort he was exerting on that side of the ball.
Blake Griffin still isn't a good defender, but I feel if Jimmer does improve his defense he'll be a solid player never an allstar, but a guy who'll get you points off the bench
First of all people who compare JJ reddick to jimmer obviously havent seen jimmer enough...not only is jimmer a better shooter, but the main difference is JIMMER CAN CREATE HIS OWN SHOT. He doesn't dribble like wade, or rose obviously, but he knows how to create space and shoot off the dribble whereas Reddicks whole game was based on coming off screens/ catch and shoot. Although he should make more of an effort defensivly, his lack of defense doesn't worry me as much because his scoring ability overshadows his lack of defense. I see him as a dangerous 6th man in the league, and with a lot of motivation to prove critics wrong. My only concern which i see difficulty with him is his decision making. Jimmer has always been the man at byu and able to shoot 30 shots a game, but in the nba he will have to adjust and realize that he will probably have many more weapons around him, and probably won't be the best player on the team (who knows he always could blow up but i doubt it happening in the first couple years). If his playing point guard, hell have to learn how to play point guard because i think his court vision is limited...and if it isnt his court vision and simply hed rather take shots when double teamed then passing, then obviously he has to change that. Being double teamed witht he atletes in the nba is much different then college.
im rooting for him
NBA defense isn't all about speed. In his first couple of years in the league Derrick Rose was not a very good defender, but he is improving. In his prime Derek Fisher was a good defender at the point guard spot, and he was never that athletic. Jason Kidd has been playing some AWESOME defense and he was never the fastest guy on the court (especially now) and he is TWICE the age of Kyrie Irving.
I think Jimmer can be an adequate defender at the point guard position.
I think what people on here are saying is that if Jimmer was a great on-the-ball defender who got a lot of steals in college then he should be the first pick in the draft. Is that what people are implying?
Kemba had the fifth best maximum vertical which is very impressive. With his solid height at 6'1 and good speed this will allow him to finish at the rim.
Not sure what else Kemba has to do to be at least the 2nd point guard taken in the draft. If he goes to the Raptors at 5 or falls to the Kings at 7, I see him as a sleeper pick for Rookie of the Year. He's a great leader, a great winner, can create his own shot, and is a great playmaker.
Again those verticals are awesome. His maximum vertical leap is only half an inch worse than Rose's max. vert., and half an inch better than John Wall.
... back to Jimmer. Jimmer has a better max. vert. than Toney Douglas, Eric Maynor, Jarrett Jack, and Monta Ellis. Interesting.
There is a lot more to defense than just these drills. I am sure that Jimmer practice for these tests but the true test will come in a game situation.
I still see him as a undersized 2 guard. A lot of people are making him as a point guard and I just don't see it. Also since when did JJ Redick not be able to shoot as far as college. Also I doubt Jimmer is as good a shooter as Korver.
L M F A O, I LOVE how Bothteamsplayedhard said "11 missionaries" when talking about BYU's team. That literally made me laugh.
Though he is a monster athlete. Defense is about agility and athleticism, but it is also about desire and having a mindset. Jimmer was incredible in college, but the "my coaches did not want me to get in foul trouble" thing is a WACK excuse. Did he used to get into foul trouble, so his coaches warned him about being overaggressive? Bottom line is, Jimmer has a tough time playing defense and conserved most of his energy for one end of the court. Fortunately enough, he had a level of athleticism and certainly skill where this could fly.
Now, he is going to the NBA. I do not think anyone doubted that Jimmer would hit around 33 (pretty sure that is what I guessed around the time people were saying he could jump 36), and it is great that he bench pressed like a beast. Still, I think the agility test is not necessarily the best factor for telling as to whether one will be a good defender. It tells you a bit about shuffling your feet in condensed areas, switching different directions, but you are in a set situation with no one you have to worry about. Rashad McCants ran a 10.39 lane agility, and he jumped higher and was longer than Jimmer. Ever remember his being praised as a defender?
I would say of all of the tests, the lane agility is the hardest to gauge. I remember writing about it, almost a year ago today:
It is incredibly difficult to gauge the results of this test, and a number of people known as the NBA's fastest players ran the lane agility slower than other counterparts. How am I supposed to translate the results of a drill which had Carlos Boozer and David Lee, two relatively bad defenders, run faster than Andre Iguodala and Chris Paul (by .3 seconds in both cases)? No clue. So, yes, Jimmer showed he belonged in the NBA athletically, for those who thought he didn't (do not know any), but has he shown that he will take these athletic combine numbers and become one of the better players in the league or an all-around player rather than just an offensive player? No clue. Just would not bet on him using these combine scores to guard all of the PG's who scored below him in these categories, which is nearly every top PG in the league.
Here is a list of some top PG's athletic #'s:
Chris Paul: 32/38 verts, 11.09 Lane Agility, 3.22 3/4 sprint, 10 bench reps
Deron Williams: 30/35, 10.83, 3.25, 15
Derrick Rose: 34.5/40, 11.69, 3.05, 10
Russell Westbrook: 30/36.5, 10.98, 3.08, 12
Jimmer measures incredibly favorably to these, at least in the last three tests where he is at 10.42, 3.21 and 14. But, they are all longer than him, can jump higher and I think it is safe to say Jimmer will have fits trying to guard them. You can say that these are 4 of the best, but I can assure you that most PG's Jimmer guards will probably be nearly this athletic. They come a dime a dozen, and while Jimmer has nice strength, do you really think his speed is elite? Is he going to be fast enough to stay in front of a Mike Conley? Is he not going to get posted up by a Raymond Felton? Will he have any idea how to stay in front of a pigeon toed Aaron Brooks? Will he be able to back down the tank that is Kyle Lowry?
This is why I have no idea if combine #'s actually tell us as much as one would think. If you look at Jimmer's results, they make him seem like a speed demon with Herculean strength compared to the average, though his jumping stats are at or below average for his position. Definitely is a dead eye shooter, and he has some skill to possibly penetrate as well, but I do not think he will be a killer at the free throw line. Also, despite what his agility results say, I think on average, he will probably be going up against someone who is either bigger (in length) and faster than he is. So, to people doubting whether he was an NBA athlete, he seems to be. But are his numbers enough to qualify him as being an elite PG? That will take time to see, but I am probably going with no.
They told Blake Griffin to not concentrate on defense in college either. Although one of the best defenses against Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook (two ELITE point guards) is to play off them by 5 feet, and let them shoot their teams out of the game. A good defense against Rajon Rondo, too. But, Jimmer will have trouble guarding fast point guards who can really shoot the 3 like Steph Curry.
Whats the facination with Jimmer? Hes a mid round pick in a horrible draft. Hes probably going to be a shooter off the bench. Why cant everyone live with this? Everyone wants this guy to be the messiah of basketball, its just not going to happen.
i think Jimmer could be a better version of Mike James
Mickey, going back to your old lane agility test post, I think Jimmer did train night and day for these combine exercises and I bet that is why he blew them out of the water. Remember he has been training like this since he was kid because he uncle is an agility sport trainer guy who runs something like a speed camp. No wonder Jimmer is so good at this stuff when he doesn't look that fast on the court.
I however disagree with you about Jimmer's execuse for not playing hard D in college. In college you only have five fouls and a guy like Jimmer who is agressive as he is is going to pick up one a game on the offensive end. So if Jimmer picks up four on defense, he is out and his team loses. If he picks up two in the first half or three early in the second half, then he has to sit for a little while and his team loses. There is no way to D up hard and be absolutely sure that you aren't going to pick up some fouls. It can't be done by even the best defenders (and Jimmer is not a good defender). So if you are a weak or average defender and you can't afford to pick up any fouls, the only way to play D is to be a little passive.
Some people think Jimmer is going to be the worst defender in the NBA. I don't think he will be because of the work ethic and the effort is there in every other aspect of his game so I think it will be there on the defensive end once he doesn't have to worry about playing 40 minutes every night with only 5 fouls to give.