Longest home losing streak for the Jazz in 29 years. I hope me make a move before the deadline.
Here's my trade idea: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6bgx6kt
I know most of the people on this site think that it stupid for the Jazz to trade AK, but he has a humongous contract and trading it could really help Utah find that second scorer that would help lighten Dwill's big load. Besides Utah gets a scrappy player that could somewhat make up for AK in Shane Battier. Utah would love his blue collar play, and they also get a great bench player that can play some 2 guard much better than Ronnie Price. I really think Utah benefits from this trade even though they are giving up AK. Starting lineup: Dwill/Watson, Young/Heinrich, Battier/Miles/Hayward, Millsap/Elson/Evans, Jefferson/Fez
Washington may be giving up one of their best scorers in Nick Young as well as a great backup in Kirk Hinrich but they benefit in receiving a great bench player in AK who can play both the 3 or the 4. He could easily backup or start over Rashard Lewis, and he could help the Wizards with some defense and scappy play that could really help them out on the road and in the future. Also they get a a great pg who used to start until he was being overplayed thanks to a recent injury in Aaron Brooks. Brooks can still bring it and possibly allow the Wizards to benefit in a big way from giving Heinrich. Brooks could be a great backup to Wall or he could start at the 1 moving Wall to the 2. Starting Lineup: Wall, Brooks, Lewis/AK, Blatche, McGee.
Rockets benefit by getting another scappy player in Ronnie Price. They may give up Brooks to do it, but they also up and coming player Yi Jianlian who would be a great backup to Luis Scola. He can learn alot better under Scola tutilage because Scola is a veteran. Also even though the Rockets give a scrappy player in Shane Battier they receive 2 scrappy players in Josh Howard and Ronnie Price. Another plus is that Howard returns to the state he was drafted from, Texas. Starting Lineup: Lowry/Price, Martin/Lee, Howard/Williams, Scola/Yi, Hill/Hayes
As a Rockets fan, why would we trade one of the better scoring PG's in the league in Aaron Brooks and one of the best perimeter defenders in the league for an injured Josh Howard that is nowhere near the level of Shane Battier, nor Chase Budinger, and Terrence Williams is a better project while they all play the SF position, a backup PG that doesn't even play and is probably not even better than our current 3rd string PG (Ish Smith), and one of the softest and worst PF's in the league? By the way, Yi Jianlian isn't an up and coming PF.. this isn't NBA Live.
Price does play. He is a great jumper and plays very scrappy. With the Rockets I believe he can get about 6pts a game. Yi may not be playing great now but look what he his been given in the NBA. Nets: started right away when he was not ready. Wizards: plays backup but to PF who has a horrible attitude, and only cares about himself instead of the team. Oh yeah great teacher. Not. But if he goes to the Rockets he can get that teacher in a seasoned veteran like Luis Scola. Scola could teach him so much and help him reach his full potential. I say up and coming because I still believe he can ball even though he hasn't much of an impact. I believe that impact can start with the Rockets. If you don't like Josh Howard then you can substitute Al Thornton for Josh Howard and the trade still works.
So we're trading away Aaron Brooks, which is ALOT better than Ronnie Price.
And we're also trade Shane Battier who has an expiring contract of 7mil that we can resign him to a veteran's minimum this off season for a horrible PF and a pot head in Josh Howard?
No. Shane Battier is better than Josh Howard or Al Thornton, doesn't matter which one you throw in there.
Jordan Hill is a better player and younger than Yi Jian Lian so we don't need a soft PF like him. Like I said, he isn't up and coming, this isn't NBA Live. He's a scrub and will always be a scrub.
Trading Kirilenko would be a huge mistake.
Look at how they're playing without him.
He's more important than people realize. (Been preaching that for years.)
how long is the streak?
If your not gonna trade him, you need to mix something up in the starting lineup. The frontcourt is wierd.
I think you can get alot for AK47 personally. He's 17 mil exp and honestly, he's really not that good anymore. I think you can find someone who can give you good value for him.
I would like to keep A.K. too. Ive always loved his denfence and hustle, and felt like he should get more run and more touches on offence. And who knows maybe now under Corbin he will. But he's hurt pretty often, and he's closing in on 30 pretty fast. If we can improve the team by trading him by all means. I have heard also that if he is traded their could be a possible buyout and he would return to Utah. (Depending on were he was traded to). Or he would re sign in the off season. Right now he's our biggest bargining chip, and if we do make a move it probably involves him.
kincksboy i have heard Tyron Corbin will most likely mix up the lineup. I see Miles probably starting. Over the last 3 games 19ppg as a starter. The only problem with that we dont have any other scorers of the bench.
And Wardb, its not gonna happen. We have no desire for Kirk Hinrich. And i would keep A.K. over Battier.
Let me ask, Al Jefferson is really a power forward correct?
Could the staring lineup possibly be this: Dwill, Miles, AK, Millsap, Jefferson? I would love for this to happen. It would the jazz an increased boost at the 2, and also allow Miles that personally I think better suits him.
Here is a different trade that jazz could also make that I think better benefits all 3 teams involved. Houston is not included in this trade as they will be giving up too much. Basically the same players are involved except for the players from Houston. http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4tsoe3z
"he's really not that good anymore"
This is what I've come to expect out of people.
Look at last season. With Kirilenko on the bench, Utah was 21-17 last season. Then Sloan put him in the starting lineup and Utah won 17 out of their next 19 games. After that, Kirilenko was injured again. If he was healthy all of last season, we would have been a much better team.
And for all you stat-heads who think that Kirilenko isn't that good anymore, according to 82games.com, he was our most productive player last season.
Oh, and in our loss against Phoenix, he was the only player to have a positive impact on the game stat-wise. The team was +17 when he was on the floor. Nobody else was in the positives.
The bloody starting lineup should be:
And they should be coached by Jerry Sloan.
Their he goes with that Cole Aldirch garabe again lmao. Have you seen Jefferon Play lately? Like i said before he cant even get time on a team with no legit Center. He a project, and maybe a starter a couple years down the road at best. Now keeping Wes Matthews, that would have been a great move.
Can't keep Matthews if we pay the black hole, system-stopping, HORRIBLE defender known as Al Jefferson.
You say Aldrich is a project, but he's already a better defender than Jefferson and he's MUCH cheaper.
Again, he's not playing for OKC but that doesn't prove anything. The Jazz are a different team.
So we lose Boozer and essentially Memo Okur, and you think the answer is to replace them with Cole Aldrich? When you say crazy things like that it makes me wonder what kinda Jazz fan you are. We would have no downlow pressence without Jefferson. He has some of the best foot in the league. Plus 8th in the league in blocks. (his man to man D could use some work but still) Millsap is ballin, but he picks and pops way more than he posts up. Your right we would be a different team. A team with no center. And a team that probably doesnt make the playoffs.
Wesley Matthews might not have played last season either if he was drafted by a different team. He was drafted by the Jazz, and Sloan played him because he was tough. The same thing would have happened with Aldrich.
I love how you guys portray everything as black and white. There is ALWAYS more happening than meets the eye. This is why they teach critical thinking in school.
Cole Aldrich is a great defender who is poised, tough and active. His defensive presence would be something that the Jazz have never had at the center position. Offensively he only does three things well; set screens, outlet passes, and garbage points. That is beyond perfect for the Jazz. He's playing with Deron Williams and Andrei Kirilenko who are adept at creating oppurtunities for others. The Jazz didn't need Jefferson's 17 points a game on 48% shooting because in didn't fit in Sloan's system. Williams, Matthews, Kirilenko and Millsap all thrived in Sloan's system and we were a better team when we had that chemistry.
Trading for Jefferson was subtraction by addition.
"So we lose Boozer and essentially Memo Okur, and you think the answer is to replace them with Cole Aldrich?"
I'll take chemistry and defense over points. Defense wins championships.
"When you say crazy things like that it makes me wonder what kinda Jazz fan you are."
Yeah I'm crazy, but the Jazz are a horrible defensive team and there's no denying that. Okur is a better defender than Jefferson. Jefferson gets two blocks a game, that doesn't make him a good defender.
"He has some of the best foot in the league."
Excusing your grammer here, he does have some of the best footwork/low post moves in the NBA. He's a great one on one scorer. That doesn't mean he's good for the team.
"And a team that probably doesnt make the playoffs."
Well, that's all speculation on your end, but it doesn't look like we're making the playoffs anyway.
"Let me ask, Al Jefferson is really a power forward correct?"
That depends. I think he's better defensively at center, as he typically gets torched trying to defend the pick and roll. What makes you think he's a power forward?
You keep saying Sloan's system. Which dont get me wrong, is proven to work. But its not his system anymore. And He was leaving after next season anyway no matter what. So i think the owners starting thinking outside that box that was "Sloans system". And its also speculation on your part that he could have came in and been that good. He probably would have became another Ostertag. Maybe slighty better.(i know you hate that comparison but its true) He for sure wouldn't have been able to start as a rookie. And i think we would have picked him if he really was that great on defence. They saw him as Tag 2.0 plus some extra hustle, and minus two or three inches.
I think Jefferson is more a 4 IMO. In his best, he played power forward for Minny (Love often came off the bench) and with Utah using him as a C, it hinders him.
I personally feel, he's movable because he's someone another team can use a power forward and be effective. I think the Utah needs to move him back to the 5, but they don't have no player who can start at the 5 other then Jefferson.
"You keep saying Sloan's system. Which dont get me wrong, is proven to work. But its not his system anymore. And He was leaving after next season anyway no matter what."
Really? Prove it.
"And its also speculation on your part that he could have came in and been that good."
I've scouted him. That's what people on this scouting website do. He played defense, rebounded and set screens at an NBA level. I doubt anybody who has scouted him would refute that.
"He probably would have became another Ostertag. Maybe slighty better.(i know you hate that comparison but its true)"
I don't hate the comparison. People who use it are just idiots. You've admitted to have never scouted him. You compare him to Ostertag to try to prove a point. He was a completely different player than Ostertag. Stop embarrassing yourself.
"He for sure wouldn't have been able to start as a rookie."
People said that about Matthews.
"And i think we would have picked him if he really was that great on defence. They saw him as Tag 2.0 plus some extra hustle, and minus two or three inches."
Again, that's your speculation. You have absolutely no way of proving or supporting something like this.
"I think Jefferson is more a 4 IMO. In his best, he played power forward for Minny (Love often came off the bench) and with Utah using him as a C, it hinders him.
I personally feel, he's movable because he's someone another team can use a power forward and be effective. I think the Utah needs to move him back to the 5, but they don't have no player who can start at the 5 other then Jefferson."
He played better offensively as a power forward, but did it hurt the team? Minnesota was never a good defensive team and I think Jefferson was a reason why.
I don't hate Jefferson, even though that's what it sounds like. Truth is, he's hurting the team. The free-flowing offense of the Utah Jazz was one of the best in the league over the last few years (Utah always led the league in FG% and assists), but Jefferson changes our offense. He catches the ball, holds it for 7 or 8 seconds, then makes his move. Defensively, he blocks shots but that's it. He's easily the worst defender on the Jazz right now (besides Memo, but he's injured).
Prove it? Google it. And im sorry NBA scout. Didnt mean to offend your highly respected scouting report on him. Anyone with a brians can see if you replace Jefferson with him we would be much worse off than we already are. And thats another good thing about Jefferson, he can play the 4 or 5. I would like him better that he 4. But we want to start him and Millsap, and we dont have any legit center to start either.
"Prove it? Google it."
Gotta be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
I dont think When Stockton was constantly making plays off the dribble and Karl Malone was scoring 30ppg that the offence was that team oriented. Sure with Stockton being the greatest passer ever, and Jeff also a good passer at sg we were high in assists. Ya we moved the ball around if teams doubled, or if someone was open. But they were the main two guys with the ball in their hands.
"Prove it? Google it."
I did google it. I didn't find anything.
"And im sorry NBA scout. Didnt mean to offend your highly respected scouting report on him."
You didn't offend me. You should look up some games (not highlights) of Cole Aldrich and Greg Ostertag. I've seen plently of both, and it's painfully obvious that there is no comparison between the two of them.
"Anyone with a brians can see if you replace Jefferson with him we would be much worse off than we already are."
Really? This is your argument? I don't have "a brains"? I'm not sure what that proves, but it certainly isn't valid logic. I might be a complete idiot. I might have an IQ of 37. That doesn't prove anything about Jefferson and it doesn't give your argument any credence.
Sorry i thought you would already heard about this being that you know so much about Jerry Sloan.
I'm sorry, you guys are arguing over this team that just hired it's coach.
I'm not taking sides, but I definatly disagree with the premise of staying put. In all honesty, If I was Utah, your not getting better and you made tons of moves that you thought would work and didn't. I'm willing to bet that Deron Williams is gone, he realize he's on a team that probably won't be able to win a title. Al Jefferson is a power forward playing center ( By the way, that Jefferson being a terrible defensive player AND being the reason Minnesota was bad was downright terrible and incorrect), Paul Milsap is good, but probably plays 10-15 mpg too much a night and did we mention Utah still hasn't upgraded the shooting guard position in 3 years? Yet, AK47 is the piece to keep him because he was the piece that you'd argue made them better....last season?
This thinking is the reason why Utah never budged out the 5-8 range from the West while a team like OKC pounced over them easily
"I dont think When Stockton was constantly making plays off the dribble and Karl Malone was scoring 30ppg that the offence was that team oriented. Sure with Stockton being the greatest passer ever, and Jeff also a good passer at sg we were high in assists. Ya we moved the ball around if teams doubled, or if someone was open. But they were the main two guys with the ball in their hands."
Malone was an excellent team player, did everything within the offense and was a gifted play maker as well.
"Sorry i thought you would already heard about this being that you know so much about Jerry Sloan."
Sloan has been signing one year extensions for a long time. It didn't mean he was planning on leaving after next season.
I have seen tag play, alot. And he played good D and rebounded. But truthfully when i watch Aldrich in college he played pretty well. Im not saying you dont have brians its just painfully obvious. And tongue out you can suck a dickk dude no ones talkin to you.
Honestly i needa remind myself your down with Jazz nation and your not even from Utah. You deserve props. So i guess will just have to agree to disagree. We both are intitled to our opinions.
Google it was kinda a lazy answer lol. I just assumed it was comin Jazz knowledge.
"I definatly disagree with the premise of staying put."
Who said the Jazz should stay put?
"( By the way, that Jefferson being a terrible defensive player AND being the reason Minnesota was bad was downright terrible and incorrect)"
He is a terrible defensive player, but I never said that he was the reason Minnesota was bad. I said he was a reason why they weren't a good defensive team. He certainly wasn't a reason why they were a good defensive team, because they weren't.
"Yet, AK47 is the piece to keep him because he was the piece that you'd argue made them better....last season?"
He's made us better this season too. He's our best defensive player and look at our record in games he's missed this season. The examples I gave from last year were examples of the impact he has that people like you don't recognize. They were examples. They were just examples. Examples, examples, examples. Not the argument, but examples that supported that argument.
Of course, I'm assuming that all of the quotes of yours I mentioned were about the things that I've said. If they weren't, disregard.
Utah's 2010-2011 Record Without Andrei Kirilenko: 2-8
*Including the game against Phoenix when he was injured in the first half (we were winning by double digits at the time of the injury, ended up losing by 12)
Oh CodySLC, somebody is getting angry around here. Can't stand nomoney's heat? Dude is flaring up every post of yours. Quit trying. Smh..
A.K. gets overlooked alot. I think because he doesnt play 35+ minutes a night, and people expect him to be great every game because of his salary. Once apon a time he was thee most versital player in the league. If he does get moved you can bet we are getting someone like Iggy or of that caliber. Otherwise he's not goin anywhere.
I want the jazz to rebuild. We have all seen what swinging for the fences and grabbing a bunch of "stars" to play with your star does to a team via clevland. They build around Lebron not the system. This summer when we got al I thought it was a mistake because it was a move to make dwill happy even though everyone knew he doesnt fit the jazz. He isnt a pick and roll player. He isnt a great defender either. I really want to see some new faces,
Trade dwill, big al, Okur, Bell, and anyone else who isnt part of the future... and start from scratch. And please build to fit the system not a player.... I would love to get picks in 2012 and maybe curry for williams and sign someone like a perkins and build from there.
I loved sloan as much as the next guy. But maybe Williams wasnt the whole cause of the problem. Maybe it was the fact this team is stuck as a 5-8 seed and he wanted a ring not to just be mediocre. I think the way you do that as a little market team is the OKC model and I wish we would go that route.
LOL naw im not mad at nomoney. I realized i was arguing with someone who loves the same team i do. And just wants them to win, just like i do. It just seemed like you were tryin to take sides. Like i said it was a lazy answer but i figured everyone already knew about it. So i wasnt gonna waste my time with it.
If I was KOC, I would be jumping through hoops right now to get Cole Aldrich, Joel Pryzbilla or Tyson Chandler. Jazz need toughness/defense down low.
And tongue out why do you care about this post for? Arent you the one that said somthing like, the Jazz are the Most overrated franchise in history and Jerry Sloan wasnt that great of a coach?
And who do we move to get them? I dont see anyway Dallas trades Chandler.
I love talking ball and reading about people talking ball. What's wrong with that?
Nothin at all. I just thought that was kinda funny.
No money, I don't know if you realize this but all the things you say about Big AL are TOTALLY WRONG.
"the black hole, system-stopping, HORRIBLE defender known as Al Jefferson."
I'm sorry please explain to me how a player who is playing great in february, averaging like 25 pts and at least 8 boards and every single game he gets like 2 blocks is a "black hole, system stopping, HORRIBLE defender. Last I checked blocking 2 shots a game (that's more than AK gets, who is your favorite player) and getting 8 boards or more a game is playing very good defense.
And if you want to start Aldrich, then that is almost like starting Fezenko in his rookie year when he was even more raw then he is now.
I realize that the Jazz need AK to win games but my biggest beef about him is that he has such a huge contract. The Jazz need to use this money on someone else, someone that can lighten Dwill's humongous load which he is struggling to hold on his shoulders. It needs to be lightened. The Jazz need to get a legitamate second scorer desperately. If we have to give up AK to do it, then so be it at least the Jazz get the player they desperately need.
"I'm sorry please explain to me how a player who is playing great in february, averaging like 25 pts and at least 8 boards and every single game he gets like 2 blocks is a "black hole, system stopping, HORRIBLE defender"
I already did. Several times.
"Last I checked blocking 2 shots a game (that's more than AK gets, who is your favorite player) and getting 8 boards or more a game is playing very good defense."
"And if you want to start Aldrich, then that is almost like starting Fezenko in his rookie year when he was even more raw then he is now."
Aldrich isn't raw defensively.
"I realize that the Jazz need AK to win games but my biggest beef about him is that he has such a huge contract."
That was easy.
"Last I checked blocking 2 shots a game (that's more than AK gets, who is your favorite player) and getting 8 boards or more a game is playing very good defense."
Blocking shots and rebounding doesn't make you a good defender. Look at JaVale McGee. He's long and athletic so he rebounds and blocks shots on the weak side but when you watch him play, anybody backs him down and scores on him at will.
If that's the case, Kevin Love and Darko Milicic are the BEST defensive front court in the league. Darko averages 2.3 blocks per game (3rd in the league) and KLove gets 15 boards a game (1st).
Don't look at stats to say somebody is a good defender, it'll make you look stupid everytime.