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Jazz Fans and Al Jefferson

bigblackNbeautiful
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Jazz Fans and Al Jefferson

I feel that big al is one of the few players on the jazz that some hate and others love.

Some think he is a black hole who inflates his stats while the team loses and is a pf who is stuck playing center because of the jazz depth at center. They say although he gets blocks his defense is pathetic and he cant pass out of the post to save his life. Saying that if you believe al needs to go what kind of value will the jazz get? And if we do trade him does that make Kanter the pick at 3.

The other big al view i get from jazz fans is that he is one of the main building blocks for the future. Him and derrick favors are the future bigs for the jazz and we can probably trade millsap for a wing. They think he is our best player and is the future stud for the jazz for years to come. Saying that, who do the jazz pick at 3? Knight makes the most sense but all of the sudden a change of philosphys may need to occur with two below par passing bigs and 2 score first pgs. I think this draft and off season will show alot about the direction this francise is going. Hopefully the jazz know what they are doing and build around the right people.

So does Al stay or go? If he goes what do they get for him? And if he stays or goes who is the pick at 3?


bksmith
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I like Jefferson but as a

I like Jefferson but as a Jazz fan I don't want to see him on the roster past this next season. There are a lot of young teams looking for a post presence with some veteran experience. Just to be able to get out from under his contract is the important thing.

Those that are calling for Milsap to be gone are crazy. His production and motor are envied by many GMs in the league and his contract is pennies compared to most others at his position. I love Milsap but he needs to come off the bench next season and the Jazz need to start their young players. Milsap dominates other teams off the bench but he struggles against starting PFs in this league.

Jefferson needs to go and Milsap needs to stay.

bigblackNbeautiful
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^^^

I agree with that analysis. With that who would you take at 3. kanter?

sammybuckeye13
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I'm a die hard Jazz fan and I

I'm a die hard Jazz fan and I love Big Al. He's gotten a bad rap his whole career because either A) his supporting cast sucked, or B) he was playing beside a talented but unathletic big man that didn't complement him well.

He is a black hole, sort of, and he's a mediocre defender at best, but a team can survive with a guy like that as their top player if the team has the right surrounding pieces, and the jazz do. Favors, unlike any other power forward he's played with, has the size, strength and athleticism (but most importantly, size and athleticism) to ease his load on both sides of the floor. Jefferson averaged something like 22.5-10-2 blocks after D-Will left, which would qualify him as the 2nd best center, statistically in the league. Not saying he is, but also not saying he's overrated.

An important thing to note is that Millsap is 6-7 (at the 07 combine he measured 6-6.25 w/o shoes, 6-7.25 in shoes), so this year the Jazz were playing with a 6-7 PF and a 6-10 C. Favors is a legit 6-10, making the frontline considerably more formidable. Favors, let's not forget, still has all-star potential. He was All-NBA 2nd team as the youngest player in the league, and has as much upside as anyone in the game.

When you consider the prospect of teaming that elite-talent 6-10 PF with that 280-lb 6-10 center who happens to have the best back-to-the-basket game in the league after Gasol, it would appear a lot more sensible to trade Millsap for a wing. I don't want to point to any potential trades right now but I can't think of any team that wouldn't want Millsap for the right price.

I want Al to stay. Should that happen, and assuming they keep Millsap for the time being, I think the pick is Brandon Knight, unless Derrick Williams is still on the board. For Al, Kanter would be too much like playing next Love, an awesomely talented but not super athletic big man his size. The Jazz have a well documented history of molding young PG's into superstars/record breakers, and Knight, at 18, not only has ideal size/length/bball IQ for the position, but he's a great, smart kid, willing to learn, and has a great jump shot for someone who you'd think might be raw (he's not a better prospect, but he's a better shooter than Reke or Wall coming out of college). He could backup Harris for a year (who would be a great role model by the way, they're the same size and Harris could teach him a thing or two about getting to the hole efficiently), and he has the size to slide in and play the 2. Seeing as how he led Kentucky to the Final 4 as a freshman, I think he could definitely start in his second year, when Harris becomes an expiring contract.

scliddiard
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I haven't checked out the $

I haven't checked out the $ figures but I wouldn't mind a Big Al to Detroit for Prince &#8, maybe include Daye. Maybe add Raja Bell with Big Al, what ever works $ wise. Might have to throw in the #12 pick if Daye is included.

I'd like to get Leonard or Biyombo in the draft, might be able to get one of them at 8.

Big Al would give Det. a low post scorer and Monroe is a great high post player who can pass.

bksmith
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I would say take Kanter if he

I would say take Kanter if he is there and if he is not then try and trade down if you can. I like Harris too but in 3 years will he still have the speed that he does now? Try and get a PG this year or next year if possible. I really like the idea of Leonard on this team was well.

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sammybuckeye13 I like most of

sammybuckeye13

I like most of what you had to say. I think Favors and Kanter could be a great tandem together for the future. If money were not the issue then I would be much more willing to keep Big Al but my worry is that the Jazz could be the next sonic franchise of they don't get back under the cap now!!!

I don't know how cleveland fans would feel but what if the Jazz traded Big Al and the #3 pick for the #4 and the TPE that they are sitting on because Lebron left? I could see it being much more appealing to them if Kanter is gone at 2 and Williams is sitting there waiting to be drafted at 3.

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He's not going anywhere. He's

He's not going anywhere. He's our best player. And one of the best post players in the league. He rebounds and blocks shots. He can be what Zach Randolph was for the Grizz these playoffs.

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Intresting topic. With the

Intresting topic. With the jazz having fesenko,favors,milsap,jefferson,elson,evans,plus.......the rights to Ante Tomic and the ageing okur and kerilinko, the jazz front court is crowded.We seen milsaps great start of the season and reversal where jefferson had a great end of a season these guys aren't bad players any team would want to have them thats obvious. Its just we dont know what the jazz are doing rite now rebuilding or trying to compete with what they have they almost had the 8th seed. They need help on the wing first and formest but why pass on a chance to get the top bigs avialable in a star lacking draft. As we seen with the celtics over the pass years and OKC this year, YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TO MANY LEGIT BIGS. Seeing production from your fount court no matter what circumstance espically in a 7 game series will give you the edge in winning.Im not saying the shouldn't draft knight but they do have harris and might be back in the lottery next year. They will have a busy offseaon for sure and thats the only thing certain.

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Trade AL

Al is a PF stuck playing center, just like in Minnesota. That being said, many teams would kill for him, and Utah should move him for a favorable package of picks, youth and expirings.

Here is one possibility:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3zr5dwk

Warriors throw in a 1st rounder in exchange for taking Biedrins' contract.

Certainly not perfect, especially if the Warriors are worried about defense.

Here is another scenario:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3jszlxt

Additional pieces probably added.

Let me know what you think.

butidonthavemoney
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The

The sooner we ship Jefferson off, the better for the team. He has not proven that he can bring any positive net value to any team. The Jazz were at their best last year with Jefferson sitting on the bench (see Miami comeback) because he didn't fit Utah's system. He's a very poor defender and management knows it. I think he'll be traded sometime in the next year.

His value isn't very high (Utah got him for two non-lottery first round picks and Kosta Koufos) so don't expect much. I think the most we could hope for is expirings or possibly a trade exception.

butidonthavemoney
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Never

I never understood the folks who say Jefferson would play better as a power forward. He gets constantly beat off the dribble by centers and the only value he has defensively comes from hanging around the basket and using his size for area rebounds and blocked shots.

All of his weaknesses would be amplified by playing him at the 4.

Calipari
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Yep

Playing him at the 4 wouldn't be really beneficial, because he is a little undersized for a C, and too slow for a 4. I think we'll be able to get soemthing for Jefferson. Low post scorers who are at least competent aren't exactly plentiful, and some team will want Jefferson. Utah got him in a Minnesota salary dump, so the previous trade doesn't really establish his value. Also, if multiple teams get involved in bidding for his services, then Utah could get a nice little package.

You just have to trade Jefferson within a year in order for a new phase to take effect, because the bottom line is that he isn't a leader, doesn't care for defense, is frankly lazy, and has never succeeded as a primary option. I understand the Minnesota situation, but in Utah his production was supposed to peak with D-Will. That didn't happen, and his future with the Jazz is as a tradeable asset.

scliddiard
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I would like it if the Jazz

I would like it if the Jazz could pick up a wing like Granger , I want Favors to develop and getting rid of Big Al may speed that process up, if we got Kanter at 3 and got Granger in this trade that would be OK with me. Favors and Kanter as the future front court for the Jazz would be very good. Milsap could be a good 6th man, 3rd big, Harris will be OK at the point for another year or two, next years draft is strong and GS's pick should give us a chance to pick up a future point guard.

Line up of:

Kanter, Favors, Granger, Hayward, Harris as starters, with Fes (if resigned), Milsap, Singleton (12thpick), CJMiles, and Watson (resigned), 2nd unit, Evans to fill in where needed.

mj23mj23bestever
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would philly tade iggy for big al

the trade makes sense imo for both teams as philly seems certain to trade iggy and they are in dire needs of a big iggy could play either the 2 or 3 same with hayward depending on the match ups

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jmpedro I like your two

jmpedro

I like your two trades. I really lke the GS trade better but I think in that situation we would have to give the #3 pick in the draft ass well but we might be able to get there pick out of them for this year.

I know that before Utah got Jefferson that Minny tried to offer Jefferson for Granger straight across and it was shut down hard core so I think that some draft picks might have to be included in that as well.

I like where your thinking is taking you though.

Calipari
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Possible

The Iggy deal is a possibility, but I believe that management would prefer Granger over him. Also, Iggy would be a bit ball dominant, possibility fighting Harris for the time that they actually play together. Also, Andre is a little undersized for the 3, lumping him in with Hayward and Miles. Hayward figures to be the most natural 3 among that group.

They're of similar age, but Granger has the advantage in size and build, his lack of ball dominance, and has a slightly lower salary. He has also proven to be a team player, something Iguodola hasn't.

Calipari
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Possible

The Iggy deal is a possibility, but I believe that management would prefer Granger over him. Also, Iggy would be a bit ball dominant, possibility fighting Harris for the time that they actually play together. Also, Andre is a little undersized for the 3, lumping him in with Hayward and Miles. Hayward figures to be the most natural 3 among that group.

They're of similar age, but Granger has the advantage in size and build, his lack of ball dominance, and has a slightly lower salary. He has also proven to be a team player, something Iguodola hasn't.

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It depends on who's available at the 3rd pick

I do agree. I would not not mind if Jefferson went, but ultimately that depends on what is available at 3. If Kanter is available, then great take him and trade Jefferson for Granger. That would fill the need at the 3 with AK soon to leave. But on the other hand if Kanter is not available at 3, but say Williams or Irving are then I'd say take them. Do the best that you can with what you got. Get the BPA whoever that ends up happening to be.

I think this also means what will the Jazz do in the offseason. Are they going to try and get of rid of Jefferson then or will they worry about other needs such as a backup PG or a Center. Are they going to bring over Tomic. Maybe they'll do that to replace Okur who is pretty much as good as gone.

I do agree with bksmith as well. The 12th pick can be offered as well as Jefferson for Granger. Granger would bring that veteran presence that the Jazz will need to make it back to the playoffs. To get both Kanter and Granger out of the draft would be quite a good draft. Would not only help the Jazz next year but also in the future.

bksmith
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It is true that Jefferson

It is true that Jefferson blocked more shots this year than he did last year. Blocking shots does not mean that you are a good defender. It is the same thing as stealing a lot of balls does not make you a great defender. Al got beat on the pick and roll more often than not and his lack of quickness really hurt the Jazz.

Yes, he put the ball in the basket but he also allowed the other team to do the same thing.

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Harginger: We don't have AK,

Harginger: We don't have AK, or Elson or Fes and Okur isn't a sure thing to be able to come back and play. Thats more than half of them not really on the team, we need more help up front, Evans is being incouraged to work on his skills , so he can play the 3, Tomic just signed a 3 or 4 yr extention, who knows if the Jazz will try to bring him over, especially if the buy out is too much. Like I said, we could use more help on the front line.

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The only

The only Way I dont take kanter is if he doesnt wanna play in utah. Or if they like Valanciunas better

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@JMPedro

You'd want GS to give up Steph Curry and the number 11 pick just to get rid of Biedrins' contract and pick up one just as bad in Jefferson's? Jefferson is an overrated statstuffer who can't guard a chair. Either you're undervaluing Steph Curry, who has serious potential, is on a rookie contract, and is GS's best player, or you're tremendously overvaluing Al Jefferson--who, as one poster noted, you got for basically garbage.

Sorry. Jefferson's not worth much, and everyone knows that the Jazz won't want to keep him, considering their frontcourt situation--so the Jazz would get even less.

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@burningflood What if the

@burningflood

What if the Jazz were to trade Jefferson, Miles and the 12th pick in the draft for Curry and Beidrins? I think that is fair value and you could have Miles play the 2 next to Monte and frontcourt of Jefferson and Lee would be a good one. Might even be enough to get GS into the playoffs next year. GS needs more post scoring threats to allow for their guard play to be even more efffective.

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have we forgotten why he was brought in?

So the only reason Big Al was brought to Utah was an attempt to appease a superstar who's attitude was to bring him help or else. Well we know how that turned out, so, there is really no reason for Al to still be here. the point has been brought up that he put up good offensive numbers but while he was doing that did he make his teammates better? simple answer is no he holds the ball to long and IF he passed it was with very little time left on the shot clock forcing someone else to take a bad shot. I bet Dallas is thinking they dodged a bullet on that one. I hope we get rid of him and go for full rebuild now rather than him and other vets (Harris) handcuffing Utahs future. Of Utahs veteran free agents there are only one maybe two i'd like to see resigned AK if the price is right and in a smaller role and Earl Watson. Of all the people utah would trade Jefferson has the least return value followed by Harris. But they both need to go.

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I

"What if the Jazz were to trade Jefferson, Miles and the 12th pick in the draft for Curry and Beidrins?"

Wishful thinking, but there's no way that's fair value.

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So I guess everyone feels

So I guess everyone feels like we should trade Jefferson and draft Kanter? If we pass on Knight, even if we get Jimmer at 12. I don't know if he and Harris are the answer at pg going forward.

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lukstine13, Wow, that was the

lukstine13,

Wow, that was the most brilliant thing that I have heard about the Jazz all day. I had totally forgotten about that. We need to be in total rebuild mode right now. The future of the Jazz needs to be playing close to 30 or so minutes a night. If they are committed to total rebuild then they need to draft a PG this year and not next year. I really feel like the PG position in the hardest to really transition to and it takes the most time.

lukestine13
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no harris is not the answer at pg

If you have seen any of my other posts on the topic of who the jazz take I am torn on the subject. The solution i would like to see is trade for another higher pick and get both if possible if not I would be satisfied with a Kanter, JImmer draft. according to all reports Jimmer generally impressed at the combine if he didn't that would have spread like wildfire. If we take Knight with the third pick that leaves the twelve pick wide open.

butidonthavemoney
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Knight

Knight is a nice prospect, but there's no guarantee he's the answer going forward either.

Truth is that Harris is a better playmaker than any point guard in the draft class. He's a horrid defender, reckless on the fast break and he lacks consistency on his jump shot but he can get his teammates involved very well. He'll be fine until we can get a viable upgrade, so there's no need to blow our highest draft pick since Deron Williams on an immediate need.

Kanter is a top-3 prospect and with him and Favors, our frontcourt would be set for a long, long time.

CodySLC
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It will be interesting to see

It will be interesting to see what the Jazz do. Trade Harris and Jefferson, or hold pat and try and make it work with a mix of vet and young talent. Greg Miller is doing an interview right now on 2news. It will be interesting to see what he has to say about the direction of the franchise.

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money: I agree, I like either

money: I agree, I like either Kanter or Williams, Irving would be good if he slipped to us, but I'm not that high on Knight. Kanter rebounds very well and is getting stronger and tougher as his body matures. I heard someone say he rebounds like Moses Malone, that would be good for the Jazz. I really like the thought of Kanter and Favors as the front court of the future for he Jazz, Kanter is 19 and Favors will be 20 in a couple of months, thats pretty young but also pretty talented.

With our need for outside shooting, Jimmer would be a good pick up, Thompson and Marshon Brooks are both good shooters and could possibly fill the need. Brooks, has a 7'1 wingspan and looked real good at the combine and at the gym he was working out at, (according to Chad Ford).

lukestine13
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@codyslc

you watched that instead of the one hour special on Jimmer on sportsbeat sunday. well what did he say?

CodySLC
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lukestine13

I haven't watched it yet. Unfortunately I work intell 3. I'm actually in the process of finding it online.

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No Noney and Jazz Nation...

There is talk The Jazz and Sixers could make a draft day trade...Andre Iguadola, Spencer Hawes and Jodi Meeks for The #3 Pick, Memhet Okur and Raja Bell...the Sixers want a Center and the roster room to develop the Holiday/Turner back court, The Jazz need multiple holes filled(Sf, Sg and C)...word is the Jazz love Jimmer at 12 and will trade Jefferson to Pacers for the 15th pick...they want to take another wing or big man with the Pacers pick...In all the Jazz would add Iguadola G/F Meeks Sg - Hawes C - Jimmer G (12th pick) and the BPA (15th pick) for the 3rd pick, Al Jefferson and Memhet Okur...they are rumored to be will to roll the dice on Jimmer and draft Pg and Pf next year with two top 16 picks in a deep draft...Sixers would have a lot of map space after Okur and Bell expire next season and Brand the year after that, with 7 young prospects(Holiday, Turner, Young, Speights, Kanter, Williams and the 16th pick in the draft *) the Sixers will have max space in two years with 4 veteran contracts coming up in that time(Nocioni, Okur, Bell next year and Brand in 2 seasons) as a Sixers/Jazz fan I'm liking the trade for both parties, except we love Meeks shooting, maybe we will draft another shooter this year to replace him(Brooks at 16???)

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CodySLC When you find it

CodySLC

When you find it please post the link. I too am looking for it an cannot find it anywhere right now.

scliddiard
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The Scare Crow: Where is this

The Scare Crow: Where is this talk coming from?

lukestine13
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no

that is a terrible trade if your the jazz. the jefferson trade to indy for the 15 is alright who would you take with the 15 Hamilton? that would allow you to fill 3 needs with 3 picks size-Kanter,shooting-Jimmer, and sf-hamilton.

This is off topic but as a jazz fan i cant help but be a bit mad about all the talent that returned to school. Could you imagine if we had a chance for Barnes or Perry Jones?

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something he claims he heard on the radio

he has a whole topic about it he posted earlier . probably just radio talk fanboys dreaming up unrealistic scenarios. If KOC trades anything he acquired in the DWILL trade it better be Harris and not Favors or either of the draft picks or jazz fans will call for his head.

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