[TheLastWordParticipant]

 They are who we thought they were. The harsh, cold reality is you can’t win in this league without an all star level player. They have 0, none, nada in the pipeline.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Its going to be okay. Give it a couple seasons. I know Jazz fans arent used to this, its quite a transition. Youve been spoiled by years of consisitency with Sloane, Stockton, Malone, Williams, Boozer, Millsap and Jefferson and now its all over. Youve got a good young core learning to play team basketball.

I get it. Im a Raptors fan. It sucks watching your team lose.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Its going to be okay. Give it a couple seasons. I know Jazz fans arent used to this, its quite a transition. Youve been spoiled by years of consisitency with Sloane, Stockton, Malone, Williams, Boozer, Millsap and Jefferson and now its all over. Youve got a good young core learning to play team basketball.

I get it. Im a Raptors fan. It sucks watching your team lose.

[r377Participant]

What about all the kids on this site who said Favors/Kanter would be so much better than the Milsap/Al Jeff lineup they used to have………

The Jazz have not extended Kanter’s contract

[r377Participant]

What about all the kids on this site who said Favors/Kanter would be so much better than the Milsap/Al Jeff lineup they used to have………

The Jazz have not extended Kanter’s contract

[Mad MaxParticipant]

 I dunno guys, Rodney Hood could be the savior.

[Mad MaxParticipant]

 I dunno guys, Rodney Hood could be the savior.

[MopgrassParticipant]

 I think Exum and Gobert could be all stars down the road.

[MopgrassParticipant]

 I think Exum and Gobert could be all stars down the road.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

They took to the belief that Paul Millsap and Al Jefferson were hindering the development of their young players. The young guys went from playing highly competitive meaningful games to what will now be a second year of wandering through the basketball wilderness. For the life of me, I cannot look at Charlotte and think that their attempt to try last year played a big role in Michael Kidd-Gilchrist putting in the work to retool his shot this past offseason. Why was that effort made this summer and not after the first season where he was handed minutes and they were going to lose whether he could shoot or not. He may or may not be great at this year, but certainly the effort was there to try to make it so. I think it benefits the players to know what a playoff standard is, and appreciate what it means for them individually to best help the team. When I watch Utah and, in particular, Philadelphia, I wonder what it benefits the young players to get NBA court time but not really play the true definition of NBA basketball. For the guys on the fringe of the league, it probably can’t hurt to show that they can make a shot, grab a rebound, or block a shot. Maybe it helps them stick moreso than being the 14th man on a good team, and they ought to take whatever opportunity that comes along. That said, for the guys who are supposed to be the building blocks of the rebuilding effort, what is gained? What of meaning did Michael Carter-Williams gain from last season? What will Nerlens Noel gain from this season? A couple years ago, Derrick Favors had a clearly defined role and purpose for what Utah was doing. What is that now that the Jazz don’t play defense? If the team gives up 96 points in the paint in two games, what is the benefit of 4 blocked shots? The young perimeter players (Hayward and Burks) were the weak points for Utah when they were competitive, and now are considered strengths when they are bad. What does that say about them and the direction of the team? One cannot have expectations for Dante Exum this year? He is for all extensive purposes, prep-to-pro. It is going to take time, but is a wretched team really the best place to develop him to be a star or star-like player for the next time the Jazz are competitive?

A lot of people buy into structural multi-year tanking as the "smart" way of doing things, but other than justifying cutting spending on players where is there clear evidence of it being the best way forward? Was it tanking that made OKC good, or was it that they came away with Kevin Durant and not Greg Oden? The Spurs won the title last year with an incredibly deep team that was made up of one guy who was a lottery pick, and multiple important contributors who were given up on by other teams (certainly Mills, Diaw, and Green but even Belinelli was given up on by Golden State and Toronto prior to going to Chicago). It is possible to be bad for decades. Golden State missed the playoffs for basically two decades. Minnesota has not been the playoffs since breaking up KG/Cassell/Spree despite collecting top five picks. The same goes for Sacramento since its mid-00s Adelman teams were declared dead. You can’t outsmart your way out of making sound and intelligent decisions. That goes double for our guy Vivek.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

They took to the belief that Paul Millsap and Al Jefferson were hindering the development of their young players. The young guys went from playing highly competitive meaningful games to what will now be a second year of wandering through the basketball wilderness. For the life of me, I cannot look at Charlotte and think that their attempt to try last year played a big role in Michael Kidd-Gilchrist putting in the work to retool his shot this past offseason. Why was that effort made this summer and not after the first season where he was handed minutes and they were going to lose whether he could shoot or not. He may or may not be great at this year, but certainly the effort was there to try to make it so. I think it benefits the players to know what a playoff standard is, and appreciate what it means for them individually to best help the team. When I watch Utah and, in particular, Philadelphia, I wonder what it benefits the young players to get NBA court time but not really play the true definition of NBA basketball. For the guys on the fringe of the league, it probably can’t hurt to show that they can make a shot, grab a rebound, or block a shot. Maybe it helps them stick moreso than being the 14th man on a good team, and they ought to take whatever opportunity that comes along. That said, for the guys who are supposed to be the building blocks of the rebuilding effort, what is gained? What of meaning did Michael Carter-Williams gain from last season? What will Nerlens Noel gain from this season? A couple years ago, Derrick Favors had a clearly defined role and purpose for what Utah was doing. What is that now that the Jazz don’t play defense? If the team gives up 96 points in the paint in two games, what is the benefit of 4 blocked shots? The young perimeter players (Hayward and Burks) were the weak points for Utah when they were competitive, and now are considered strengths when they are bad. What does that say about them and the direction of the team? One cannot have expectations for Dante Exum this year? He is for all extensive purposes, prep-to-pro. It is going to take time, but is a wretched team really the best place to develop him to be a star or star-like player for the next time the Jazz are competitive?

A lot of people buy into structural multi-year tanking as the "smart" way of doing things, but other than justifying cutting spending on players where is there clear evidence of it being the best way forward? Was it tanking that made OKC good, or was it that they came away with Kevin Durant and not Greg Oden? The Spurs won the title last year with an incredibly deep team that was made up of one guy who was a lottery pick, and multiple important contributors who were given up on by other teams (certainly Mills, Diaw, and Green but even Belinelli was given up on by Golden State and Toronto prior to going to Chicago). It is possible to be bad for decades. Golden State missed the playoffs for basically two decades. Minnesota has not been the playoffs since breaking up KG/Cassell/Spree despite collecting top five picks. The same goes for Sacramento since its mid-00s Adelman teams were declared dead. You can’t outsmart your way out of making sound and intelligent decisions. That goes double for our guy Vivek.

[HitsterParticipant]

Utah have had multiple high picks in recent years I believe there are 5 top 10 picks from 2010 onwards on their roster plus through in Burks and Gobert and you have a nice young core there. Favours and Hayward are now on large 2nd contracts but the team has not seemed to improve at all.

Even when Jefferson and Millsap were there the team was only around .500 yet look at the improvement the Bobcats had with Jefferson leading the way last year. I do wonder if something is missing in Utah that we have not been able to put the finger on.

Philly are virtually fielding a D-League talent team outside of Nerlens Noel and with MCW and Embiid out they have nowhere near the talent that Utah have on their roster.

[HitsterParticipant]

Utah have had multiple high picks in recent years I believe there are 5 top 10 picks from 2010 onwards on their roster plus through in Burks and Gobert and you have a nice young core there. Favours and Hayward are now on large 2nd contracts but the team has not seemed to improve at all.

Even when Jefferson and Millsap were there the team was only around .500 yet look at the improvement the Bobcats had with Jefferson leading the way last year. I do wonder if something is missing in Utah that we have not been able to put the finger on.

Philly are virtually fielding a D-League talent team outside of Nerlens Noel and with MCW and Embiid out they have nowhere near the talent that Utah have on their roster.

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

 I’ve been thinking, the Jazz haven’t got much from Kanter, they aren’t going to extend his contract. He is not working well with Favors. They should just trade him for a veteran. Some veteran stretch four, that can help with defense too. That’s the problem with the Jazz, they have no trouble scoring inside or outside, its their defense that sucks. I think this is why the now ousted coach Corbin went to starting Marvin Williams and delegated Kanter to a bench role. His inside defense is just horrible, I cringe everytime I see him in the starting lineup next to Favors. Favors can’t be depended upon to defend down low against the big guns of the West all by himself. Yet that’s exactly what Kanter is forcing him to do. 

What I’m thinking is this, trade Kanter to a team that has a veteran stretch four that can also play some defense. (Maybe to Indy for Louis Scola, not quite sure if the trade would work but its just a thought.) Then start Scola and Favors together, (or whoever they trade Kanter for), suck like they were supposed to last year. Then in the 2015 draft get Karl Towns or Jahlil Okafor. Keep that stretch 4 that you traded Kanter for, to help mentor Towns or Okafor. And all of a sudden in a year or two you have two superstars in Exum and Towns or Okafor! (possibly more with Favors and the surprise development of Gobert)

 

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

 I’ve been thinking, the Jazz haven’t got much from Kanter, they aren’t going to extend his contract. He is not working well with Favors. They should just trade him for a veteran. Some veteran stretch four, that can help with defense too. That’s the problem with the Jazz, they have no trouble scoring inside or outside, its their defense that sucks. I think this is why the now ousted coach Corbin went to starting Marvin Williams and delegated Kanter to a bench role. His inside defense is just horrible, I cringe everytime I see him in the starting lineup next to Favors. Favors can’t be depended upon to defend down low against the big guns of the West all by himself. Yet that’s exactly what Kanter is forcing him to do. 

What I’m thinking is this, trade Kanter to a team that has a veteran stretch four that can also play some defense. (Maybe to Indy for Louis Scola, not quite sure if the trade would work but its just a thought.) Then start Scola and Favors together, (or whoever they trade Kanter for), suck like they were supposed to last year. Then in the 2015 draft get Karl Towns or Jahlil Okafor. Keep that stretch 4 that you traded Kanter for, to help mentor Towns or Okafor. And all of a sudden in a year or two you have two superstars in Exum and Towns or Okafor! (possibly more with Favors and the surprise development of Gobert)

 

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

 My stretch four thoughts to trade Kanter for:

• Jeff Green 
• Nikola Mirotic
• Jonas Jerebko
• Louis Scola
• Ersan Illyasova
• Jared Dudley
• JJ Hickson
• Ryan Anderson
• Derrick Williams

But it would be better to wait until December 15th then players like Jason Smith or Spencer Hawes will be available, and I’m pretty sure the salaries will work out and the opposing team would accept.

Right now I like Jeff Green, Mirotic, Scola, Hickson, and Anderson. Realistically I think Scola or Hickson are possible, but by December 15th Jason Smith will be available and I think he would be even better than Scola or Hickson, and the Knicks would accept I believe.

 

 

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

 My stretch four thoughts to trade Kanter for:

• Jeff Green 
• Nikola Mirotic
• Jonas Jerebko
• Louis Scola
• Ersan Illyasova
• Jared Dudley
• JJ Hickson
• Ryan Anderson
• Derrick Williams

But it would be better to wait until December 15th then players like Jason Smith or Spencer Hawes will be available, and I’m pretty sure the salaries will work out and the opposing team would accept.

Right now I like Jeff Green, Mirotic, Scola, Hickson, and Anderson. Realistically I think Scola or Hickson are possible, but by December 15th Jason Smith will be available and I think he would be even better than Scola or Hickson, and the Knicks would accept I believe.

 

 

[Mad MaxParticipant]

 Yea Kanter and Favors are terrible together, Enes needs a restart button with a new team and Favors will never be able to be at his best with another big clogging up the lane, he needs to next to a big who can space the floor, play from the perimiter and make some jumpers. I’m sure you all can list a bunch of guys that would fit, so I’m not gonna bother with the "omg these two would be a great fit!!!!1111!!!"

Also, they are really really really young. Yes Hayward, Favors and Burks have been there for a decent bit, but they need a true established gritty vet who can still produce some; while not taking away from the young guys but still come in a play a significant role. Again there are a lot of guys you could name, so not gonna bother listing names.

Finally, the need a go to guy badly. Hayward, love him as a player, just isn’t that guy on a regular basis. Burks, I personally think he’s super overlooked and has the talent and skill, but will he get a legit chance to be in that role and can he do it? Burke, can he overcome his physical limitations? Exum, pretty much a role of the dice and that probably won’t be for a while even if he is that guy.

I like a lot of their players on their team, some nice talent, just not a great mixture in this league and they have the worst coaching ever. Seriously they go from Ty Corbin to Quinn Snyder???? They somehow managed to get a worse coach than Ty Corbin.

 

 

 

[Mad MaxParticipant]

 Yea Kanter and Favors are terrible together, Enes needs a restart button with a new team and Favors will never be able to be at his best with another big clogging up the lane, he needs to next to a big who can space the floor, play from the perimiter and make some jumpers. I’m sure you all can list a bunch of guys that would fit, so I’m not gonna bother with the "omg these two would be a great fit!!!!1111!!!"

Also, they are really really really young. Yes Hayward, Favors and Burks have been there for a decent bit, but they need a true established gritty vet who can still produce some; while not taking away from the young guys but still come in a play a significant role. Again there are a lot of guys you could name, so not gonna bother listing names.

Finally, the need a go to guy badly. Hayward, love him as a player, just isn’t that guy on a regular basis. Burks, I personally think he’s super overlooked and has the talent and skill, but will he get a legit chance to be in that role and can he do it? Burke, can he overcome his physical limitations? Exum, pretty much a role of the dice and that probably won’t be for a while even if he is that guy.

I like a lot of their players on their team, some nice talent, just not a great mixture in this league and they have the worst coaching ever. Seriously they go from Ty Corbin to Quinn Snyder???? They somehow managed to get a worse coach than Ty Corbin.

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 With all this talk about the right sort of big to play alongside Kanter or more likely Favours. Will there still be the same problem pairing one of these two with Gobert?

I know a trade would not happen but it’s ironic Boston have two starting frontcourters in Olynk and Sullinger who both have genuine 3 point range.

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 With all this talk about the right sort of big to play alongside Kanter or more likely Favours. Will there still be the same problem pairing one of these two with Gobert?

I know a trade would not happen but it’s ironic Boston have two starting frontcourters in Olynk and Sullinger who both have genuine 3 point range.

 

[TheLastWordParticipant]

 Its a tough call. The right move might be to trade both Favors and Kanter, and just have one superb defensive big like Gobert and surround him with great shooters and slashers. Thats the way the NBA is going, for better or worse. Spacing is king.

[TheLastWordParticipant]

 Its a tough call. The right move might be to trade both Favors and Kanter, and just have one superb defensive big like Gobert and surround him with great shooters and slashers. Thats the way the NBA is going, for better or worse. Spacing is king.

[ph90702]

When you suck, suck more.  Get great young pieces and go from there.

[ph90702]

When you suck, suck more.  Get great young pieces and go from there.

[Author]

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