[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

 I saw a post yesterday about Jaylen Brown not having any fell for the game, have a low IQ, and a Ben McLemore and Julius Randle comparison thrown out. Yes, Jaylon Brown wasn’t impressive this year for Cal, but I believe he will be much better in the NBA when it’s WAY more spacing and 3 point shooing around him.

At Cal he played on a team that’s not built for him to succeed. You saw that he had a great stretched w/o starting point guard Wallace due to the fact that they had way better shooters around him. He also had to work with a struggling coach. I’m not going to put all the blame on them because Jaylon Brown needs to work on his handle and jump shot, but he was set up to fail at Cal.

 

 

 

[220Participant]

 Low basketball IQ is always a frightening thing to me because a lot of guys who don’t understand the game don’t ever really learn it and their teams waste high picks on their potential is Stromile Swift and Tyrus Thomas just to name two.

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

 I don’t even think he have a low IQ. If you look at players w/ low IQ, you look at Michael Beasley, Nick Young, JaVale McGee, and players like that. Jaylen Brown don’t fit that mode in low IQ. You can say he plays reckless a lot of times, then I agree, but having a low IQ is pretty far fetched.

[GBeeParticipant]

 Why is that far-fetched? Because it sounds bad?   Blaming his shortcomings on his team? Now that sounds more like a reach. Sounds like excuses too.

The kid plays like he has no concept of the simple play.  All he knows how to do is force the issue and try to impose himself physically. Forced drives, forced shots, his awareness is poor on both ends.  He’s sloppy and TO prone in traffic bc he doesn’t pick his spots well. He makes up his mind to drive regardless of how the defense is lined up. He doesn’t execute the simple pass, like an easy ball swing or post entry.  He catches the ball and immediately focuses on his own offense. He puts on blinders in transition too. I could go on.

I want to like him as a prospect bc he has just about every physical tool you would want for a wing, plus I gave him the benefit of the doubt bc he’s supposedly a smart kid off the floor, but that doesn’t always translate to decision making on your feet (just look at Brandon Knight).  Watching him play in different formats, from aau, team usa to college, I noticed that he clearly struggles with decision making to the point where I found it disconcerting and very off-putting.  Because of that I think he’s major project with big bust potential.

And why the hell did this need its own thread? Are you too good to reply in threads on the same topic?

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

I said it’s far fetched that he had poor basketball IQ because he don’t typically fit the typical low basketball IQ players. Your breakdown of him sounds very similar to John Wall. He forced drives, was sloppy, didn’t pick his spots well, makes up his mind to drive regardless of how the defense lined up, and more. That just suggest that he’s 18 year old, super agressive player , that only really knows how to play at one speed. He can learn how to slow down and pick his spots better.

It’s clear that you just wanted to blast my post because the point flew right over your head when I was talking about his team. I made the point that some of it is his fault, but you can’t just ignore that he didn’t fit w/ the personnel that he had to work w/. I said what most NBA scouts suggest (according to Chad Ford and some other analsyt ) that he might be better fitted for the NBA because the college game lacks space. His team did lack 3 point shooting, that’s a fact. He also played much better w/ more 3 point shooting on the floor (when Wallace went down w/ an injury), that’s a fact.

No reason to use the word "hell", suggest that you are pissed/mad about something, it’s just basketball and I’m trying to add to the conversation. And I made another thread because his name on the post was low and thought most people wouldn’t click the article for my take. Calm down, it’s my opinion and just basketball.

 

 

 

                                

[GBeeParticipant]

 No, his mental shortcomings go beyond the scope of natural growing pains.  His recognnition is very poor.  There isn’t one aspect of the game where I can say he even has a decent understanding of what is going on.  That by very definition is a low bball IQ player.  For instance Cal faced a lot of soft zone bc of their lack of shooting, yet there was Jaylen, literally trying to flat 1-4 iso vs the top of the zone.  Like vs Hawaii, there were a number of times where he’d catch the ball and I literally said to myself, there’s no way he’d try to drive vs that when they’re locked and loaded rdy with a pack line of 3 defenders. Yet there he goes holding the ball, staring at what’s in front of him before putting his head down and getting stripped for the umpeenth time. Situations like that happened all year with Jaylen and I saw no progress over the course of the season, having some of his worst performances at the end of the season. For such a highly touted prospect, his IQ is very poor, undeniably so, even when comparing him to his peers.  I saw it in every step of his progression.  From AAU to college, even when he played for Team USA I thought he was the worst looking wing on the team bc he looked he had no idea how to function when playing with talent. Even his body language clearly said that he’s confused and doesn’t know how to assert himself outside of forcing the issue, looking spaced out and literally shrugging while he’s playing.  Unsurprisingly so, he was the 12th man on the team despite his reputation.

Yes, Cal had major problems offensively, but Jaylen was a big part of that problem. That team suffered from lack of continuity, poor shot selection and poor decision making at the end of games, where Jaylen and Ty Wallace were the biggest culprits. In essence he was a victim of his own play.  Surround him with better shooters and I guarantee he’d still make piss poor decisions.

I think it’s stupid and unnecessary when people make completely seperate threads to address posts.  Replying in that thread was perfectly fine.  It makes it so obvious that you’re trying to draw even more attention to your posts.

 

 

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

1.  I don’t find it stupid to make a whole seperate thread about a topic I want to further discuss. The thread was about to go away in a couple of post so obviously I wanted to draw more attention the post I’m going to make.
2. So, he’s a major part of the reason that the entire team can’t shoot the ball. And the point flew right over your head again. By having more shooters and more spacing his strenghts would be better shown. Never said that he wasn’t wreckless, out of control, and others. A lot of players that lack a jumper have those same weaknesses.
3. You seem to have a growing beef, hate for Jaylen Brown. LOL. When I view players that have a low IQ, I see players doing very stupid things on the court, not someone trying to make a play that’s not there. I look at players that have a low IQ like JaVale McGee, not John Wall.

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

1.  I don’t find it stupid to make a whole seperate thread about a topic I want to further discuss. The thread was about to go away in a couple of post so obviously I wanted to draw more attention the post I’m going to make.
2. So, he’s a major part of the reason that the entire team can’t shoot the ball. And the point flew right over your head again. By having more shooters and more spacing his strenghts would be better shown. Never said that he wasn’t wreckless, out of control, and others. A lot of players that lack a jumper have those same weaknesses.
3. You seem to have a growing beef, hate for Jaylen Brown. LOL. When I view players that have a low IQ, I see players doing very stupid things on the court, not someone trying to make a play that’s not there. I look at players that have a low IQ like JaVale McGee, not John Wall.

[GBeeParticipant]

Then you’re a self-important poster who would rather draw attention to his posts then to continue the discussion in the appropriate thread.  All you’re doing is creating redundant threads on the same page. You’re not new to this. You know damn well that threads are bumped when you reply to them.

No, the point didn’t fly over my head.  I’m saying it would not have mattered.  His decision making is what it is. There IS no great fit for low IQ players. For example, whenever he drives he draws extra defensive attention, but where is the recognition? He’s got one of the best finishers in his conference, with some of the best hands among all freshmen, yet Jaylen still tries to force a shot up or expose the ball to get stripped in traffic.  When an offense is struggling, a player with a halfway decent IQ would not compound the situation by continuing to make bad plays.  There is ALWAYS a simple play to be made whether via swinging the ball, a post re-entry or simply moving a few feet to the left or right to create better passing angles or set up driving lanes off the catch, etc. Brown does none of that and I won’t even get started on his inattentiveness on the defensive end.

I have no agenda against Brown.  I want to like him as a prospect, but I call it like I see it. His low IQ is indefensible, yet here you are trying to deny it and excuse his play. If a player displays a poor understanding of simple plays and he continuously makes poor decisions then he is a low IQ player. I’m sorry you don’t like the way that sounds.

 

 

 

[GBeeParticipant]

Then you’re a self-important poster who would rather draw attention to his posts then to continue the discussion in the appropriate thread.  All you’re doing is creating redundant threads on the same page. You’re not new to this. You know damn well that threads are bumped when you reply to them.

No, the point didn’t fly over my head.  I’m saying it would not have mattered.  His decision making is what it is. There IS no great fit for low IQ players. For example, whenever he drives he draws extra defensive attention, but where is the recognition? He’s got one of the best finishers in his conference, with some of the best hands among all freshmen, yet Jaylen still tries to force a shot up or expose the ball to get stripped in traffic.  When an offense is struggling, a player with a halfway decent IQ would not compound the situation by continuing to make bad plays.  There is ALWAYS a simple play to be made whether via swinging the ball, a post re-entry or simply moving a few feet to the left or right to create better passing angles or set up driving lanes off the catch, etc. Brown does none of that and I won’t even get started on his inattentiveness on the defensive end.

I have no agenda against Brown.  I want to like him as a prospect, but I call it like I see it. His low IQ is indefensible, yet here you are trying to deny it and excuse his play. If a player displays a poor understanding of simple plays and he continuously makes poor decisions then he is a low IQ player. I’m sorry you don’t like the way that sounds.

 

 

 

[GBeeParticipant]

 No, his mental shortcomings go beyond the scope of natural growing pains.  His recognnition is very poor.  There isn’t one aspect of the game where I can say he even has a decent understanding of what is going on.  That by very definition is a low bball IQ player.  For instance Cal faced a lot of soft zone bc of their lack of shooting, yet there was Jaylen, literally trying to flat 1-4 iso vs the top of the zone.  Like vs Hawaii, there were a number of times where he’d catch the ball and I literally said to myself, there’s no way he’d try to drive vs that when they’re locked and loaded rdy with a pack line of 3 defenders. Yet there he goes holding the ball, staring at what’s in front of him before putting his head down and getting stripped for the umpeenth time. Situations like that happened all year with Jaylen and I saw no progress over the course of the season, having some of his worst performances at the end of the season. For such a highly touted prospect, his IQ is very poor, undeniably so, even when comparing him to his peers.  I saw it in every step of his progression.  From AAU to college, even when he played for Team USA I thought he was the worst looking wing on the team bc he looked he had no idea how to function when playing with talent. Even his body language clearly said that he’s confused and doesn’t know how to assert himself outside of forcing the issue, looking spaced out and literally shrugging while he’s playing.  Unsurprisingly so, he was the 12th man on the team despite his reputation.

Yes, Cal had major problems offensively, but Jaylen was a big part of that problem. That team suffered from lack of continuity, poor shot selection and poor decision making at the end of games, where Jaylen and Ty Wallace were the biggest culprits. In essence he was a victim of his own play.  Surround him with better shooters and I guarantee he’d still make piss poor decisions.

I think it’s stupid and unnecessary when people make completely seperate threads to address posts.  Replying in that thread was perfectly fine.  It makes it so obvious that you’re trying to draw even more attention to your posts.

 

 

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

I said it’s far fetched that he had poor basketball IQ because he don’t typically fit the typical low basketball IQ players. Your breakdown of him sounds very similar to John Wall. He forced drives, was sloppy, didn’t pick his spots well, makes up his mind to drive regardless of how the defense lined up, and more. That just suggest that he’s 18 year old, super agressive player , that only really knows how to play at one speed. He can learn how to slow down and pick his spots better.

It’s clear that you just wanted to blast my post because the point flew right over your head when I was talking about his team. I made the point that some of it is his fault, but you can’t just ignore that he didn’t fit w/ the personnel that he had to work w/. I said what most NBA scouts suggest (according to Chad Ford and some other analsyt ) that he might be better fitted for the NBA because the college game lacks space. His team did lack 3 point shooting, that’s a fact. He also played much better w/ more 3 point shooting on the floor (when Wallace went down w/ an injury), that’s a fact.

No reason to use the word "hell", suggest that you are pissed/mad about something, it’s just basketball and I’m trying to add to the conversation. And I made another thread because his name on the post was low and thought most people wouldn’t click the article for my take. Calm down, it’s my opinion and just basketball.

 

 

 

                                

[negguaryParticipant]

Didn’t we blame Ben Simmons short comings on his team?

[GBeeParticipant]

 Not me. It wasn’t his team’s fault that he can’t shoot and his effort on defense was poor. 

[GBeeParticipant]

 Not me. It wasn’t his team’s fault that he can’t shoot and his effort on defense was poor. 

[negguaryParticipant]

Didn’t we blame Ben Simmons short comings on his team?

[GBeeParticipant]

 Why is that far-fetched? Because it sounds bad?   Blaming his shortcomings on his team? Now that sounds more like a reach. Sounds like excuses too.

The kid plays like he has no concept of the simple play.  All he knows how to do is force the issue and try to impose himself physically. Forced drives, forced shots, his awareness is poor on both ends.  He’s sloppy and TO prone in traffic bc he doesn’t pick his spots well. He makes up his mind to drive regardless of how the defense is lined up. He doesn’t execute the simple pass, like an easy ball swing or post entry.  He catches the ball and immediately focuses on his own offense. He puts on blinders in transition too. I could go on.

I want to like him as a prospect bc he has just about every physical tool you would want for a wing, plus I gave him the benefit of the doubt bc he’s supposedly a smart kid off the floor, but that doesn’t always translate to decision making on your feet (just look at Brandon Knight).  Watching him play in different formats, from aau, team usa to college, I noticed that he clearly struggles with decision making to the point where I found it disconcerting and very off-putting.  Because of that I think he’s major project with big bust potential.

And why the hell did this need its own thread? Are you too good to reply in threads on the same topic?

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

 I don’t even think he have a low IQ. If you look at players w/ low IQ, you look at Michael Beasley, Nick Young, JaVale McGee, and players like that. Jaylen Brown don’t fit that mode in low IQ. You can say he plays reckless a lot of times, then I agree, but having a low IQ is pretty far fetched.

[220Participant]

 Low basketball IQ is always a frightening thing to me because a lot of guys who don’t understand the game don’t ever really learn it and their teams waste high picks on their potential is Stromile Swift and Tyrus Thomas just to name two.

[220Participant]

 Low basketball IQ is always a frightening thing to me because a lot of guys who don’t understand the game don’t ever really learn it and their teams waste high picks on their potential is Stromile Swift and Tyrus Thomas just to name two.

[220Participant]

 Low basketball IQ is always a frightening thing to me because a lot of guys who don’t understand the game don’t ever really learn it and their teams waste high picks on their potential is Stromile Swift and Tyrus Thomas just to name two.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 They can test for IQ.  They can also test for EQ — Emotional Q.  They NEED to develop a test for Basketball IQ.  It would probably be a situational test, or, like a basic IQ test, a test based on patterns.  

Now, if I have a guy with a good IQ, EQ, AND a high Basketball IQ, THEN we can further develop skills and win some games.  If not, you are shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

Supposedly, the difference between IQ and EQ is that you can CHANGE your EQ.  

Maybe there are parts of Basketball IQ that you can CHANGE.  IQ is basically about pattern recognition and logical reasoning.  So, maybe you can’t change that part of a Basketball IQ — but, EQ is about knowning your strengths and weaknesses, and getting along with others.  So, you can probably help guys focus on their core strengths within the concept of a team system.  

Supposedly, you can’t change someone’s personality either.  

So… you gotta get guys with a good personality — OR guys with a personality you can deal with.

Specific SKILLS are somewhat unrelated, but teachable (guessing).  Mostly, modeling the correct way to do things, and independent practice to mastery.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 They can test for IQ.  They can also test for EQ — Emotional Q.  They NEED to develop a test for Basketball IQ.  It would probably be a situational test, or, like a basic IQ test, a test based on patterns.  

Now, if I have a guy with a good IQ, EQ, AND a high Basketball IQ, THEN we can further develop skills and win some games.  If not, you are shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

Supposedly, the difference between IQ and EQ is that you can CHANGE your EQ.  

Maybe there are parts of Basketball IQ that you can CHANGE.  IQ is basically about pattern recognition and logical reasoning.  So, maybe you can’t change that part of a Basketball IQ — but, EQ is about knowning your strengths and weaknesses, and getting along with others.  So, you can probably help guys focus on their core strengths within the concept of a team system.  

Supposedly, you can’t change someone’s personality either.  

So… you gotta get guys with a good personality — OR guys with a personality you can deal with.

Specific SKILLS are somewhat unrelated, but teachable (guessing).  Mostly, modeling the correct way to do things, and independent practice to mastery.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 What the @*!# are you even talking about? Why did I even read that. I think I just learned how to change my IQ because it’s alot lower after reading that!!

[OhCanada-Participant]

 What the @*!# are you even talking about? Why did I even read that. I think I just learned how to change my IQ because it’s alot lower after reading that!!

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 There’s a few things I don’t like about Jaylen Brown. For those who only read that, they’ll miss that I like him as a prospect and think he should be a top-10 pick but there are some holes in his game.

The poster brought up how the Cal team wasn’t built well around him. I disagree with that notion on several fronts.

First: He’s a perimeter player who can’t shoot. The best shooting guys in a lineup are typically the perimeter players. Cal’s lack of spacing wasn’t other guys not being good shooters. They had multiple guys who were 40 percent three point shooters. People clogged the lane BECAUSE of Brown. Because he was an abysmal shooter

Is Brown a guy who needs every single player around him to be a good shooter? So you have a sacrifice other guys in the lineup for the sake of getting shooters on the floor around him?  If so, that’s like a Cleveland scenario where you need lesser players who can shoot to be around LeBron. Is Brown good enough to be the guy that you structure your whole lineup around?

Don’t know if his bball IQ is or isn’t great. It’s clear though that he doesnt have a great feel for the game. It’s okay, but its not always natural. From what I watched, he didn’t seem like a great cutter off the ball. He stands and watches a lot. That to me, means his bball IQ isn’t developed as much as it could be at an early age. He forces things, which is understandable. He’s a freshman and he’s used to being able to impose his physical game on people. How did he adjust to not being able to do that? He did pretty well. So it’s not like he’s a big dope out there, but there are some holes. He doesn’t strike me as a great passer. He’s not quite shabbaz Muhammad, but he’s not a playmaker at this point. He’s a slasher/scorer. 

Is Brown a good defender? I’ve read that he’s not. He’s got the tools to be, but he’s prone to lapses. 

I think there’s a place in the top half of the lottery for Brown. There’s a lot to like with him. He didn’t have a bad year at Cal by any means. His flaws are really easy to spot, but there’s plenty to work with and no reason to think he can’t at least become a decent shooter. But a perimeter guy who can’t shoot isn’t ideal and his lack of feel in terms of creating for others seems to be real. 

 

 

 

 

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 There’s a few things I don’t like about Jaylen Brown. For those who only read that, they’ll miss that I like him as a prospect and think he should be a top-10 pick but there are some holes in his game.

The poster brought up how the Cal team wasn’t built well around him. I disagree with that notion on several fronts.

First: He’s a perimeter player who can’t shoot. The best shooting guys in a lineup are typically the perimeter players. Cal’s lack of spacing wasn’t other guys not being good shooters. They had multiple guys who were 40 percent three point shooters. People clogged the lane BECAUSE of Brown. Because he was an abysmal shooter

Is Brown a guy who needs every single player around him to be a good shooter? So you have a sacrifice other guys in the lineup for the sake of getting shooters on the floor around him?  If so, that’s like a Cleveland scenario where you need lesser players who can shoot to be around LeBron. Is Brown good enough to be the guy that you structure your whole lineup around?

Don’t know if his bball IQ is or isn’t great. It’s clear though that he doesnt have a great feel for the game. It’s okay, but its not always natural. From what I watched, he didn’t seem like a great cutter off the ball. He stands and watches a lot. That to me, means his bball IQ isn’t developed as much as it could be at an early age. He forces things, which is understandable. He’s a freshman and he’s used to being able to impose his physical game on people. How did he adjust to not being able to do that? He did pretty well. So it’s not like he’s a big dope out there, but there are some holes. He doesn’t strike me as a great passer. He’s not quite shabbaz Muhammad, but he’s not a playmaker at this point. He’s a slasher/scorer. 

Is Brown a good defender? I’ve read that he’s not. He’s got the tools to be, but he’s prone to lapses. 

I think there’s a place in the top half of the lottery for Brown. There’s a lot to like with him. He didn’t have a bad year at Cal by any means. His flaws are really easy to spot, but there’s plenty to work with and no reason to think he can’t at least become a decent shooter. But a perimeter guy who can’t shoot isn’t ideal and his lack of feel in terms of creating for others seems to be real. 

 

 

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 A young player should always have a developing basketball IQ, Brown’s isn’t great, I’ve seen better and I’ve seen worse. Brown is a very physically gifted player whose great athletic ability has taken him this far in his career but when you get to the NBA you come up against bigger, stronger and more battle hardened players so you need to have strong fundimentals to fall back on.

Brown isn’t that good a ballhandler IMO and his shooting isn’t where it could be yet, his speed will give him some shooting openings but nowhere near as much as he has had up to now. So he needs to work on that part of his game in particular.

His draft stock has fallen from where it was at the start of the season when he wasn’t considered that far behind Simmons and Ingram. I personally think he will likely declare if he is projected to go top 10, I don’t see him falling out of the lottery either.

He is the sort of player who needs to have a coach or coaching staff who will develop him. If he goes later top 10 he won’t have so much hype surrounding him and can be given time to find his feet in the NBA. I’d expect him to be an impact bench player for a couple of years before I’d consider him as a starter by which time I’d have hoped he’d developed more.

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 A young player should always have a developing basketball IQ, Brown’s isn’t great, I’ve seen better and I’ve seen worse. Brown is a very physically gifted player whose great athletic ability has taken him this far in his career but when you get to the NBA you come up against bigger, stronger and more battle hardened players so you need to have strong fundimentals to fall back on.

Brown isn’t that good a ballhandler IMO and his shooting isn’t where it could be yet, his speed will give him some shooting openings but nowhere near as much as he has had up to now. So he needs to work on that part of his game in particular.

His draft stock has fallen from where it was at the start of the season when he wasn’t considered that far behind Simmons and Ingram. I personally think he will likely declare if he is projected to go top 10, I don’t see him falling out of the lottery either.

He is the sort of player who needs to have a coach or coaching staff who will develop him. If he goes later top 10 he won’t have so much hype surrounding him and can be given time to find his feet in the NBA. I’d expect him to be an impact bench player for a couple of years before I’d consider him as a starter by which time I’d have hoped he’d developed more.

 

 

 

[mamadouParticipant]

Wade didn’t make a three in his last 53 games, DeRozan was a 16% 3 pts shooter at USC, Jrich a 29% 3 pts shooter as a frosh.

You ain’t shooting 8,4 FT per 36 mins as a freshmen without downside.

The foul prone, TO prone manchild was expected…

 

 

 

 

[mamadouParticipant]

Wade didn’t make a three in his last 53 games, DeRozan was a 16% 3 pts shooter at USC, Jrich a 29% 3 pts shooter as a frosh.

You ain’t shooting 8,4 FT per 36 mins as a freshmen without downside.

The foul prone, TO prone manchild was expected…

 

 

 

 

[kobyzParticipant]

  Brown remind me al farouq aminu with his overall defense, atheltic ability and limited helf court offense, a good fit for Phoenix, i see them trading down for him…

[kobyzParticipant]

  Brown remind me al farouq aminu with his overall defense, atheltic ability and limited helf court offense, a good fit for Phoenix, i see them trading down for him…

[TheLastWordParticipant]

 I could be missing the bigger picture but see him as way over rated. Small for a SF. Can’t shoot. Good, but not great, athlete. Questionable basketball IQ. I see him going more in the 10-14 range.

[TheLastWordParticipant]

 I could be missing the bigger picture but see him as way over rated. Small for a SF. Can’t shoot. Good, but not great, athlete. Questionable basketball IQ. I see him going more in the 10-14 range.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 He won’t get past the Kings. I would love for the Raptors to scoop him up at 9. Derozan isn’t leaving but it still acts as insurance and Terrence Ross is on a trade friendly 10-mil per year contract. The Raps overpaid him so they could use him in a trade. Brown could replace Ross as backup SF.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 He won’t get past the Kings. I would love for the Raptors to scoop him up at 9. Derozan isn’t leaving but it still acts as insurance and Terrence Ross is on a trade friendly 10-mil per year contract. The Raps overpaid him so they could use him in a trade. Brown could replace Ross as backup SF.

[Author]

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