This topic contains 28 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar TheArtistPaysthePrice 9 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #58245
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    TarHeelRaven
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    Jahlil Okafor dominated the scrimmage at countdown to craziness and things are looking pretty good for the potential number one pick in the draft next year. (He was being guarded by Marshall Plumlee so Duke fans shouldn’t get TOO carried away). I am a known Duke hater and have said some pretty negative things on this site about Duke basketball, but I want to be less biased and more subjective when talking about Carolina’s biggest rival. Okafor has a chance to be very good. I think the national player of the year and first team all-American nominations are a bit ridiculous now since he is a freshman and hasn’t played a single college game. Same thing with Harrison Barnes when he was a freshman. Duke needs a dominant big man on its team like a super model needs a sandwich. Coach K is known for playing his starters heavy minutes and not utilizing his bench. Okafor’s only true back-up at center is Marshall Plumlee and everybody and their mother knows he can’t be counted on to contribute in extended minutes. If K is playing Okafor 35 minutes a game, I think he will be dead tired come tournament time. He has had conditioning issues in the past, but looks to be in very good condition now. Also, foul trouble could plague Okafor since he hasn’t been used to playing against guys as big and as strong as him on a consistent basis. As a Duke fan, I would be extremely concerned about Okafor’s minutes and a lack of any sort of reliable back-up. He will get as many minutes as he can handle because he is far and away Duke’s best player, but fatigue and early foul trouble could really put Duke in a bind. His matchup with a slimmer and stronger Kennedy Meeks could be great. Okafor is more talented than Meeks and a much better NBA prospect, but I think that match-up will be epic.

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  • #953199
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    GBee
    Participant

     they can go small and play jefferson at the 5 too. coach k likes to run 1 big at a time so i expect that.

    ~ 30 mpg is a nice number. i think he can handle that.

     

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  • #953060
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    GBee
    Participant

     they can go small and play jefferson at the 5 too. coach k likes to run 1 big at a time so i expect that.

    ~ 30 mpg is a nice number. i think he can handle that.

     

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  • #953215
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    Ebown5
    Participant

    Freshman have been all americans and won national player of the year awards so it isn’t all that weird that the number one freshmen in the country would be considered a favorite.

    In recent years, the best college players have been freshmen simply because the best players tend to only go to college for a year.

    I’m not saying that I necessarily expect Okafor to be the best player in the coutnry, but he MIGHT be.

     

     

     

     

      

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  • #953077
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    Ebown5
    Participant

    Freshman have been all americans and won national player of the year awards so it isn’t all that weird that the number one freshmen in the country would be considered a favorite.

    In recent years, the best college players have been freshmen simply because the best players tend to only go to college for a year.

    I’m not saying that I necessarily expect Okafor to be the best player in the coutnry, but he MIGHT be.

     

     

     

     

      

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  • #953219
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    JoeWolf1

     This probably won’t be a popular opinion, but I think Marshall Plumlee will surprise some people in a reserve role for Duke. He still has good athleticism for a 7 footer, and I think he can be a viable 15 mpg player for the Blue Devils and put up 5 ppg and 5 rpg. He had a pretty good game against Syracuse last year, and this put back reminded me that he his a Plumlee in the athletic department.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE2csvCUuVE

    I doubt he’s a 1st rounder like his brothers, but being 7 foot tall and athletic will eventually get you minutes at the NCAA level.

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  • #953081
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    JoeWolf1

     This probably won’t be a popular opinion, but I think Marshall Plumlee will surprise some people in a reserve role for Duke. He still has good athleticism for a 7 footer, and I think he can be a viable 15 mpg player for the Blue Devils and put up 5 ppg and 5 rpg. He had a pretty good game against Syracuse last year, and this put back reminded me that he his a Plumlee in the athletic department.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE2csvCUuVE

    I doubt he’s a 1st rounder like his brothers, but being 7 foot tall and athletic will eventually get you minutes at the NCAA level.

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  • #953093
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    TarHeelRaven
    Participant

     That put back went.right to him.  All he had to do was jump and.slam it.  I.agree.he’s athletic but he will not.average 5 and 5 in my opinion.  Barring an okafor, which would be an absolute disaster for.Duke, plumped will,stay.firmly.entrenched.on the bench in my opinion.  I could be wrong and you might possibly be right, but.nothing.I have seen out of.him suggests he can average 15 minutes a game.  He’s too much of an offensive liability.

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    • #953099
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      JoeWolf1

       I knew it wouldn’t be a popular opinion on here, but I watched that entire game and he showed some promise in an extender role. He had 4 points 5 rebounds and 3 blocks and 0 fouls in 19 minutes in a close game against the then ranked #1 team in the country. He showed signs of life at the end of last season.

      That dunk wasn’t to illustrate some sort of offensive wizardry, but rather that he’s a huge and athletic, not to mention he’s also old for his class and 30 lbs of muscle heavier than he was as a freshman. 

      7′ 255lb guys that do between the legs dunks, can serve as a good garbage man/rim protector in reserve minutes even if they’re not insanely skilled or highly regarded NBA prospects. I think Marshall can do just that.

       

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    • #953237
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      JoeWolf1

       I knew it wouldn’t be a popular opinion on here, but I watched that entire game and he showed some promise in an extender role. He had 4 points 5 rebounds and 3 blocks and 0 fouls in 19 minutes in a close game against the then ranked #1 team in the country. He showed signs of life at the end of last season.

      That dunk wasn’t to illustrate some sort of offensive wizardry, but rather that he’s a huge and athletic, not to mention he’s also old for his class and 30 lbs of muscle heavier than he was as a freshman. 

      7′ 255lb guys that do between the legs dunks, can serve as a good garbage man/rim protector in reserve minutes even if they’re not insanely skilled or highly regarded NBA prospects. I think Marshall can do just that.

       

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  • #953231
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    TarHeelRaven
    Participant

     That put back went.right to him.  All he had to do was jump and.slam it.  I.agree.he’s athletic but he will not.average 5 and 5 in my opinion.  Barring an okafor, which would be an absolute disaster for.Duke, plumped will,stay.firmly.entrenched.on the bench in my opinion.  I could be wrong and you might possibly be right, but.nothing.I have seen out of.him suggests he can average 15 minutes a game.  He’s too much of an offensive liability.

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  • #953107
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    TheArtistPaysthePrice
    Participant

     He raises awareness, poise, IQ but does not increase talent relative to peers. If Parker had went to Texas and Kevin Durant style handled the ball he would have been the number 1 pick. Or went to Indy and trained and prepared his body like Dipo or Zeller he would have been the number one pick. Very few guys go to Duke and leave at a higher relative rating than there class peers once they leave. Basically not since Boozer and Dunleavey Jr. 

    Okafor is so skilled in a way that many guys aren’t nowadays and Al Jefferson’s game has risen Okafor’s stock even more, in the way that Dirk raised Bargs stock. Nobody since Sullinger in major college basketball get back to the basket post touches consistently. His freshman year he would get 12 or more a game. Coach K is not going to run down a bunch of pin downs and off ball action that ends in a iso post touch, no coach does. Okafor’s gonna face up even more and already has a perchant for it and he won’t be that dominant guy we (or at least I) want. More Marc Gasol then Jefferson and your right if you argue thats better but its not what I want. 

    Prediction: No player of the year but is Number 1 pick. 

     

     

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    • #953118
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      JoeWolf1

      Mason Plumlee was a top offensive option for Duke in the 2012-13 season, and he averaged 10 shots per game and 62.1% of them were at the rim. That doesn’t include touches down low in which he didn’t shoot. He was featured a lot in the post and averaged 17.1 ppg.

      Coach K gets wrongfully categorized for not developing players, or not letting guys shine, but I don’t think that’s entirely true. He’s had a hand full of guys in the past 15 years get drafted high, played in All-Star games, and when compared to other elite coaches who puts out more and better pros outside of Coach Cal?

      Coach K has 14 active players in the NBA. 2 of those 14 won ROY. 4 have made All-Star games in the past 10 years, two of his 4 year players ( Plumlee bros ) played with USA select, Reddick is a career double digit scorer, McRoberts just got a big contract, Gerald Henderson is a career starter, and Parker is a favorite for ROY. If he’s bad, who’s better not named Calipari?

       

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      • #953133
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        TheArtistPaysthePrice
        Participant

        What non top 50 player has Coach K turned into a top 25 player?

        For instance Gordon Hayword can go to Butler or Curry to Davidson or anybody anywhere and be an obscure guy and then turn into a star. Coach K had Miles Plumlee looking like a scrub for years and then all of a sudden people in private workouts are like this guy can play. Then shows up in the League. 

        I think its college basketball in general with zones and slow pace, but the talent is to concentrated. Its the whole buddy buddy AAU Dream Team crap thats killing it for me. Coach K and Roy Williams probably have turned more top 20 HSers into Not Top 50 CBPlayers than anyone out there. Thad Matta is terrible to. Personally I would go play for a coach that would let me explore my game and increase my talent. 

        Beohim for one makes guys better, if Tyler Ennis went to Duke he would still be there. If Sulimon or Amile Jeffereson went to the Cuse or Kansas they would already be in the NBA as well. Sulimon could have been McLemore but he is Seth Curry instead. 

         

         

         

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        • #953393
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          JoeWolf1

           Boehiem? I think you’re just saying names now…

          He’s been coaching at Syracuse since 1976, and Carmelo Anthony is the only All-Star he’s had since Derrick Coleman in 1993-94, and those are his only two NBA All-Stars.

          He plays a defensive scheme that puts an * next to every player he brings to the Orangmen, and has put for recents busts to the tune of Johnny Flynn, Wes Johnson, dissapointing prospects like Fab Melo, and Rahkeem Christmas. Jim Boehiem’s NBA impact is far less than Coach K’s, even in the amount of guys he’s produced. Boeheim has produced 30 NBA players since 1976, and two of them have played in an NBA All-Star game…

          Coach K has been at Duke since 1980, and has put up 45 NBA players and 4 active All-Stars ( double Boeheim’s total in 4 fewer years ), not to mention Grant Hill and Christian Lattener who are retired to bring Coach K’s NBA All-Star total to 6. 

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        • #953254
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          JoeWolf1

           Boehiem? I think you’re just saying names now…

          He’s been coaching at Syracuse since 1976, and Carmelo Anthony is the only All-Star he’s had since Derrick Coleman in 1993-94, and those are his only two NBA All-Stars.

          He plays a defensive scheme that puts an * next to every player he brings to the Orangmen, and has put for recents busts to the tune of Johnny Flynn, Wes Johnson, dissapointing prospects like Fab Melo, and Rahkeem Christmas. Jim Boehiem’s NBA impact is far less than Coach K’s, even in the amount of guys he’s produced. Boeheim has produced 30 NBA players since 1976, and two of them have played in an NBA All-Star game…

          Coach K has been at Duke since 1980, and has put up 45 NBA players and 4 active All-Stars ( double Boeheim’s total in 4 fewer years ), not to mention Grant Hill and Christian Lattener who are retired to bring Coach K’s NBA All-Star total to 6. 

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          • #953449
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            TheArtistPaysthePrice
            Participant

             So you are saying Boehim makes guys look beter than they are? If any of those guys you mentioned like Fab Melo went to Duke they would have never played a NBA game. If Wes Johnson went to Duke he would have never been a top 10 pick. 

            What I am saying is if you want to raise your status amoung your peer group why go to Duke. Guys don’t ussually raise the rank or get to show off there game or get in peak physical condition at Duke. 

            I feel like going to Florida or a bunch of other places makes you better than going to Duke. Coach K would have turned Horford into Lance Thomas.  

             

             

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          • #953310
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            TheArtistPaysthePrice
            Participant

             So you are saying Boehim makes guys look beter than they are? If any of those guys you mentioned like Fab Melo went to Duke they would have never played a NBA game. If Wes Johnson went to Duke he would have never been a top 10 pick. 

            What I am saying is if you want to raise your status amoung your peer group why go to Duke. Guys don’t ussually raise the rank or get to show off there game or get in peak physical condition at Duke. 

            I feel like going to Florida or a bunch of other places makes you better than going to Duke. Coach K would have turned Horford into Lance Thomas.  

             

             

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      • #953272
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        TheArtistPaysthePrice
        Participant

        What non top 50 player has Coach K turned into a top 25 player?

        For instance Gordon Hayword can go to Butler or Curry to Davidson or anybody anywhere and be an obscure guy and then turn into a star. Coach K had Miles Plumlee looking like a scrub for years and then all of a sudden people in private workouts are like this guy can play. Then shows up in the League. 

        I think its college basketball in general with zones and slow pace, but the talent is to concentrated. Its the whole buddy buddy AAU Dream Team crap thats killing it for me. Coach K and Roy Williams probably have turned more top 20 HSers into Not Top 50 CBPlayers than anyone out there. Thad Matta is terrible to. Personally I would go play for a coach that would let me explore my game and increase my talent. 

        Beohim for one makes guys better, if Tyler Ennis went to Duke he would still be there. If Sulimon or Amile Jeffereson went to the Cuse or Kansas they would already be in the NBA as well. Sulimon could have been McLemore but he is Seth Curry instead. 

         

         

         

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      • #953136
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        TheArtistPaysthePrice
        Participant

        James Harden is a great example of a guy that went somewhere where they would let him shine and hone his skills. Had he went to some school with a McDonald All American Point Guard they would have turned him into a off the ball slasher. 

        Imagine Rose, Harden or guys like that at Duke. Would have been detrimental to their lives and everyone around them. McBob played like a poor mans Lebron and then went to Duke and just recovered a few years ago (as in learned how to pass again as a big, he never got his handle back). Guys that have wiggle in there game suck at Duke. 

        Baylor sucks to. Come in top 10 leave out in the bottom ten picks in the second round. 

         

         

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        • #953399
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          JoeWolf1

           Yeah, highly ranked Kyrie Irving sufferd a similar fate at Duke, oh…wait…he averaged more points per game than Rose and a very similar clip to Harden (17.5 ppg to 17.8 ppg ) while playing a harder schedule.

          There have been coutless guys to average 17-20 ppg for Duke over the years. You can shine, hell, you act like Jabari Parker was somehow not allowed to shine, but he averaged 19.1 ppg and was the #2 pick in the draft, sure he played out of position at times, but he has stated he wants to try the 4 in the NBA, so it wasn’t that far of a stretch.

          I feel a lot of people classified Coach K as a guy who can’t produce pros after Laettener only went to 1 All-Star game and fizzled out and Grant Hill got hurt. They then failed to re-adjust their opinions when he put Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Luol Deng, and Kyrie Irving in the league and they vaulted to All-Star Levels. Shane Battier became an All-Defensive team player, Cory Maggette was a 20 ppg scorer, Reddick is a guy who really develope at Duke and is a career double digit scorer and an elite 3 point shooter. The Plumlee’s are up and comers in the league. This list is just enormous…not all top high school player is NBA talent….just look at my hype post a while back…it’s not always the coach’s fault, and I don’t think a guy who’s put 45 players in the league in 34 years is the guy to call someone who stifiles potential.

          Drew is an overated coach at Baylor, he and Josh Pastner are probably two of the worst at getting guys ready for the pros.

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        • #953259
          AvatarAvatar
          JoeWolf1

           Yeah, highly ranked Kyrie Irving sufferd a similar fate at Duke, oh…wait…he averaged more points per game than Rose and a very similar clip to Harden (17.5 ppg to 17.8 ppg ) while playing a harder schedule.

          There have been coutless guys to average 17-20 ppg for Duke over the years. You can shine, hell, you act like Jabari Parker was somehow not allowed to shine, but he averaged 19.1 ppg and was the #2 pick in the draft, sure he played out of position at times, but he has stated he wants to try the 4 in the NBA, so it wasn’t that far of a stretch.

          I feel a lot of people classified Coach K as a guy who can’t produce pros after Laettener only went to 1 All-Star game and fizzled out and Grant Hill got hurt. They then failed to re-adjust their opinions when he put Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Luol Deng, and Kyrie Irving in the league and they vaulted to All-Star Levels. Shane Battier became an All-Defensive team player, Cory Maggette was a 20 ppg scorer, Reddick is a guy who really develope at Duke and is a career double digit scorer and an elite 3 point shooter. The Plumlee’s are up and comers in the league. This list is just enormous…not all top high school player is NBA talent….just look at my hype post a while back…it’s not always the coach’s fault, and I don’t think a guy who’s put 45 players in the league in 34 years is the guy to call someone who stifiles potential.

          Drew is an overated coach at Baylor, he and Josh Pastner are probably two of the worst at getting guys ready for the pros.

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      • #953276
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        TheArtistPaysthePrice
        Participant

        James Harden is a great example of a guy that went somewhere where they would let him shine and hone his skills. Had he went to some school with a McDonald All American Point Guard they would have turned him into a off the ball slasher. 

        Imagine Rose, Harden or guys like that at Duke. Would have been detrimental to their lives and everyone around them. McBob played like a poor mans Lebron and then went to Duke and just recovered a few years ago (as in learned how to pass again as a big, he never got his handle back). Guys that have wiggle in there game suck at Duke. 

        Baylor sucks to. Come in top 10 leave out in the bottom ten picks in the second round. 

         

         

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    • #953258
      AvatarAvatar
      JoeWolf1

      Mason Plumlee was a top offensive option for Duke in the 2012-13 season, and he averaged 10 shots per game and 62.1% of them were at the rim. That doesn’t include touches down low in which he didn’t shoot. He was featured a lot in the post and averaged 17.1 ppg.

      Coach K gets wrongfully categorized for not developing players, or not letting guys shine, but I don’t think that’s entirely true. He’s had a hand full of guys in the past 15 years get drafted high, played in All-Star games, and when compared to other elite coaches who puts out more and better pros outside of Coach Cal?

      Coach K has 14 active players in the NBA. 2 of those 14 won ROY. 4 have made All-Star games in the past 10 years, two of his 4 year players ( Plumlee bros ) played with USA select, Reddick is a career double digit scorer, McRoberts just got a big contract, Gerald Henderson is a career starter, and Parker is a favorite for ROY. If he’s bad, who’s better not named Calipari?

       

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  • #953245
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    TheArtistPaysthePrice
    Participant

     He raises awareness, poise, IQ but does not increase talent relative to peers. If Parker had went to Texas and Kevin Durant style handled the ball he would have been the number 1 pick. Or went to Indy and trained and prepared his body like Dipo or Zeller he would have been the number one pick. Very few guys go to Duke and leave at a higher relative rating than there class peers once they leave. Basically not since Boozer and Dunleavey Jr. 

    Okafor is so skilled in a way that many guys aren’t nowadays and Al Jefferson’s game has risen Okafor’s stock even more, in the way that Dirk raised Bargs stock. Nobody since Sullinger in major college basketball get back to the basket post touches consistently. His freshman year he would get 12 or more a game. Coach K is not going to run down a bunch of pin downs and off ball action that ends in a iso post touch, no coach does. Okafor’s gonna face up even more and already has a perchant for it and he won’t be that dominant guy we (or at least I) want. More Marc Gasol then Jefferson and your right if you argue thats better but its not what I want. 

    Prediction: No player of the year but is Number 1 pick. 

     

     

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  • #953109
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    TheArtistPaysthePrice
    Participant

     I remember when the world thought Beasley was 6 ’10 and we thought he was going to be Carmelo Anthony+ more boards. Okafor’s movements remind me of Beasley’s. The smoothness of his game and even the look of it inside 18 is the same just bigger. This is not a comparison of his outcome but of his offensive game feel.  The kid is a stud. I mean all I have seen was highlight tapes but even the way he lays up is the same. 

    This and that post above is going to garner a lot of negs but its just how I feel. 

     

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  • #953247
    AvatarAvatar
    TheArtistPaysthePrice
    Participant

     I remember when the world thought Beasley was 6 ’10 and we thought he was going to be Carmelo Anthony+ more boards. Okafor’s movements remind me of Beasley’s. The smoothness of his game and even the look of it inside 18 is the same just bigger. This is not a comparison of his outcome but of his offensive game feel.  The kid is a stud. I mean all I have seen was highlight tapes but even the way he lays up is the same. 

    This and that post above is going to garner a lot of negs but its just how I feel. 

     

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  • #953154
    AvatarAvatar
    I.C.Y.U.NV.ME
    Participant

     Marshall Plumlee will serve his role. NO ONE is expecting him to be an offensive juggernaut, and quite frankly, he doesn’t need to be. Play defensive, rebound, get garbage buckets, and push Okafor in practice…he is very capable of that. A true 7 footer with that athleticism will be great for giving Okafor a spell off bench, especially with Cook and Sulaimon seemingly coming off the bench as well

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  • #953294
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    I.C.Y.U.NV.ME
    Participant

     Marshall Plumlee will serve his role. NO ONE is expecting him to be an offensive juggernaut, and quite frankly, he doesn’t need to be. Play defensive, rebound, get garbage buckets, and push Okafor in practice…he is very capable of that. A true 7 footer with that athleticism will be great for giving Okafor a spell off bench, especially with Cook and Sulaimon seemingly coming off the bench as well

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