Is it ok to call Mason Plumlee overrated now?
In 3 games he has looked pretty bad(so has his brother) for a player of his height against teams of the caliber they have played so far
Princ 60, Duke 97
MIA 45, Duke 79
Colg 58, Duke 110
*His rebounds against Miami(Ohio) are inflated because the coach pretty much didnt want his players to even worry about offensive boards so they could get back on d and stop the fast break.
As a Duke fan, I will say this: With the 5 guards we have running that team, I don't expect Plumlee's numbers to be super high. In all honesty, if he averaged anything more then 11ppg and 7rpg this season, i'll be shocked.
At the rate he is going against these schools him getting 7 boards a game doesnt look possible.
and fouling out in 13 minutes against Colgate?
I already see him as another victim of steve wojohowskis big man coaching.
Yes, he is overrated. He is not the prospect that some sites are making him out to be. And I say this as a huge Duke fan.
omg mr knick wat happened to ur leave of absence??
u work on that writing of urs big guy?
Writings going great, Podcast going alright. Taking a break just to talk a little bit of ball.
Mr. Knick the Brett Farve of NBADRAFT.NET...SMH
What I hate, is that he is going to be used as another example of why Duke makes big men into busts, while in fact, he just isn't that good. He is an above average college player: athletic, quick and he can pass and handle the ball pretty well, but he just doesn't have the offensive instincts or the defensive toughness to be anything but a serviceable player in the league.
LOL @ Rudeboy
But i seriously was hoping Mr.Knick and I am Your Father would put their input in since they are the two that follow Duke the most (that i know of) on here.
I forgot all about knicks hiatus from the site.
Can you honestly not spell Brett Favre?
both plumlee brothers wont be a big point contributer to duke because we have all the guards in the world.
When I look at Mason, I see a less developed version of Josh McRoberts and I think he will probably end up being a similar player to McRoberts in the NBA. He does have a much better attitude than Josh did at Duke though, and I'm sure that will help him.
However, I disagree with you when you say that Wojo is not a good big man coach. Contrary to popular belief, Duke has produced some very good big men.
Duke being the powerhouse they are under Coach K will always attract more attention than other teams and Mason Plumlee is still very much a work in progress as this site's mock suggests as it has moved him from 2011 to 2012 mock and dropped him down to late first round now.
Dang Agent Uno or YupYup..
thats how Brett spells his last name when he's sending naughty ding-a-ling pix...
Does he have the ball handling and natural playmaker ability of McRoberts though? I don't think so.
As much as everybody wants to differentiate both Mason and Miles, making Mason out to be a better prospect etc... they both look exactly the same to me based on what I've seen. Ok, yea maybe Mason jumps a lil higher, and dunks harder..but thats about it..imo
He does handle and pass the ball pretty well, better than his older brother, but not as well as McRoberts. I said he was a "less-developed version of McRoberts." I don't even think he'll be as good as Josh, although he definitely has a better attitude.
He's not a scrub by any means, I like his game and I'm happy Duke has him, but I don't see him as being an outstanding prospect. Irving on the other hand...
Going into this season i thought Miles would at the least turn out to be the more consistent of the two.
Over the summer he put on a good amount of muscle, showed he could play in the post against other NBA level prospects, showed he isnt very far behind Mason in athleticism, and even grew a Zoubek beard.
In the same three games he looks even worse than Mason has and maybe lost his starting spot to Ryan Kelly
I dont know what to think of Marshall who is just as skinny, but taller than both and far less athletic
Never was a big fan of Mason Plumlee. He's got some budding (but raw) skills and good natural athleticism, but he's not tough or strong. Some sites and scouts were pegging him as a 2011 lotto pick, but I NEVER have liked him as a lotto prospect. He's a late 1st round pick to me at best.
I'd have Mason as a late first rounder at the moment and don't forget Brian Zoubek had a full 4 years at Duke and even after a very good NCAA tournament and 4 years under Coach K, he could not be drafted. Mason was of course much more highly rated than Zoubek prior to joining Duke and this season is the first real chance we have got to see him getting regular starter minutes as last year he only had a limited role from the bench and his draft status was mainly on potential.
Other then being athletic( there are many of those in college) what does he do well? It seems if you're tall and athletic you must have this great potential hence him being listed as a lotto pick( also never bought into)
Plumlee is a better highlight video guy than actual in-game player and I think what Wojo did with Zoubek is proof enough that he knows what he's doing.
But what about Lance Thomas, Josh McRoberts, Shavlick Randolph, Chris Burgess, Casey Sanders, and Nick Horvath
McDunkin, every team has busts at every position. Obviously there are going to be more players that don't pan out, than superstars. You can pick any team and point out a whole bunch of busts. What about Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Shelden Williams, Shane Battier(Who played the 4 in college).
People put two much emphasis on a coach developing a a player in college. A coach can help, but really much of the improvement needs to come from the player. Do you really think that Calipari makes all of his point guards nba stars? Of course he doesn't. He is a fantastic recruiter and recruits the best at the position. These players never panned out because they weren't good enough, not because they were coached poorly.
Having watched those players you listed play...
Burgess was vastly overrated in high school, came to Duke and couldn't get off the bench so he transfered
Nick Horvath had a ton of injuries, and was a hard worker, but he was never going to be a star no matter where he played. Also he was a back up for better players most of his career.
Sanders was good at defense, but had hands of stone. Once again, he played behind better players until his senior year.
Randolph is the one I will admit I don't think the staff developed the right way, they should have let him play his outside in game, instead of trying to make him a traditional big man. But, he played ok his freshmen year, got mono his sophomore year and left early because he knew he'd play behind McRoberts the next year.
Thomas was overrated in high school too, but he had a big heart, and excelled on defense. But if you ever watched him play it was highly evident that he would never be an offensive star, no matter who coached him.
McRoberts had a good freshmen season and an excellent sophomore season where he averaged 13 8, 3 and 2. He would have been an All American if he'd stayed for his Junior season.
Not every highly rated big man turns into a star. It is that way at every school including Duke.
All Wojo did with Zoubek anyway was tell him to tip the ball to the perimeter on missed shots. It's not like Zoubek really developed into anything notably on offense or even on D.
Well, Zoubek went from traveling every time he touched the ball to one of the best rebounders in the country
Correlation between tapping the ball off missed shots and traveling when you try and make a move with the ball in your hands?
I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying that there is a correlation between not trying to do as much and him playing better? Because I would agree with that. Knowing your role is part of the game.
I don't really see how you can deny that Zoubek was much better as a senior than he was as a freshman.
I'm trying to understand how tapping the ball for 2nd chances off missed shots relates to traveling with he has the ball in his hands when he tries to make moves. He still is a stiff offensively. That never changed at all from his Freshman year to his Senior year.
The only thing he did any different as a player in his Senior year from any other point in his career was find gimmicky ways to get 2nd chance points for his teammates. If you try to make a case that Wojo was asome magician for Brian Zoubek "development", you are really looking hard into something that isn't there.
I never said that at all. My only point was that he did get much better. Those gimmicky ways to score were a hell of a lot better than what he was doing as an underclassmen. He was a valuable player his senior year. He wasn't the other 3.
And no, I don't think Wojo is a magician at all. I never said that. My whole point was that I don't think coaches really have all that much to do with how a player develops. If he is super talented, he will be a star, simple as that. But just like I don't think Wojo deserves all the credit for Boozer and Williams, I don't think he deserves all the blame for Thomas and Randolph.
You have to think about what he had to work with. Zoubek was one of the least athletic players I've ever seen in terms of leaping ability and speed. He developed into a fantastic rebounder, which is what his team needed most. Shelden Williams also turned out pretty well in college.
Plumlee trying to show everyone he isnt overrated agaisnt Marquette
Yea, I guess you can call him overrated now. LOL
23-11-4. WATCH THAT BOY COOK!!!!!
25pts 12rebs looking real overrated
Mason Plumlee has a bad game... bum
Harrison Barnes can't walk on water... bum
Kemba Walker and Adrian Oliver drop big stat lines... lottery picks, next Brandon Roy
It must be Thanksgiving week!
He was hooping out there against Marquette, I must say.
I kinda knew people were going to bump this thread after the game too lol.
You late people were pretty quiet after the first 3 games...but speak up now?
You got me this time but you and Mason better be consistent with it
That game still doesn't change the fact that I don't think he's a great nba prospect, but he certainly played well.
I think they were reserving judgment until Duke played a real team instead of overanalyzing stats against Miami Ohio and Colgate.
So your telling me that a season, a summer, and 3 games worth of mediocre play..is erased in one game?
So if Ty Walker has double double and 8 blocks is he a lottery pick agin?
He must have been on here reading the forums yesterday.
lol, what timing. Of all the nights to have the best game of his career. He finally looked like the player everyone was hoping he'd become. If he could develop a consistent jumper and baby hook he'd be a monster, but you could say that about any athletic big guy I suppose.
I'm telling you you don't learn anything about whether a player can play at the next level or not in 30+ point blowouts against spares. Your original post referenced nothing about last year or last summer.
Am i still wrong? Without Kyrie he has returned to his old form.
It depends what you call overrated. Overrated as in "lottery pick 2011", yes very much so. But think if he stays for 4 years he will evolve into a decent post player with good athletism. Right now he has a long way to go. They need alittle more out of him, but acouple bad games doesnt make him a joke.
I think Duke's bigger problem is Seth Curry and to a less extene Dawkins. Curry has looked horrible. Hes got a nice shot, but his all around game is just aweful. He turns it over and tries to do too much. When you have senior POY candidates on your team, you need to know when its time to take a step back. Dawkins is alittle better and has been more consistant but still has some of those same problems.
Just Crossin my fingers for Rivers/Irving 2011-2012...even though i seriously doubt it happening.