Gasol? I have a feeling if the Lakers had Dwight Howard that series would have been over long ago....
does Lebron have to win a title to be on D. Wade's level? besides, Kobe's titles were how many years ago? right now, today, Lebron is a better player than Kobe.
Amare for one game, not a series or a season. Because he can make free throws.
D Hamp is the greatest basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.
ch15r36is, as a baskeball fan I do want to see him get mad.. If a player is supposed to be an all-time great should he have a title on his resume????
LeBron only clutch shot was against the Warriors this year... His only buzzer beater... Meaningless stats that you and sportcenter bring out is ridiculous... No one remembers when LBJ was getting a rep for not taking the last shot? YEA thats clutch...
Also, since you such in love with MJ... Jordan was a F)CKING ball-hog when he came into the league... Team player? He literally punched Steve Kerr (2nd 3peat)... Jordan missed a lot of buzzer beaters... But people only see the shots that he made... Even the GREATEST isn't perfect!!! So take your head out your a$$ and give Kobe his proper due...
i remember vividly the time when Lebron had that rep. it was totally misguided and stupid.... are you in agreement with sportcenter or not, because the people that have given Lebron all the credit and throw out "meaningless stats" are the same people who built Kobe's reputation as a clutch assasin. thats what they do. hype players up for ratings..... is 56 fga to 1 assist meaningless to you? 25% field goals? can't help but notice that every meaningless stat known to man goes in LBJ's favor. i dont think there is 1 stat anymore that favors Kobe. that's fairly telling in itself. you can argue for Kobe all you like, and that's cool, but all you can rely on at this point is opinion, while everything said about Lebron is backed up by statistics. how about you give LBJ his proper due? ......as far as taking the head out of his a$$, i think ch15r36is has proven to be pretty knowledgable.
Delonte West stats.... The freaking same!!!
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PPG
06-07 BOS 69 47 32.2 0.427 0.365 0.853 0.5 2.6 3.0 4. 4 1.1 0.5 2.03 12.2
08-09 CLE 64 64 33.6 0.457 0.399 0.833 0.5 2.7 3.2 3.5 1.5 0.2 1.44 11.7
Mo Williams stats... The freaking same!!!
07-08 MIL 66 66 36.5 0.480 0.385 0.856 0.6 2.9 3.5 6.3 1.2 0.2 2.76 17.2
08-09 CLE 81 81 35.0 0.467 0.436 0.912 0.6 2.9 3.4 4.1 0.9 0.1 2.21 17.8
Wally... I guess he's too old... LOL...
06-07 BOS 32 19 28.1 0.415 0.415 0.897 0.5 2.6 3.1 1.7 0.6 0.1 2.00 15.0
08-09 CLE 74 5 20.6 0.450 0.411 0.849 0.6 2.6 3.1 1.1 0.4 0.1 0.74 7.0
Ben Wallace... I guess he not the Big Ben they got from Chi-town... LOL...
06-07 CHI 77 77 35.0 0.453 0.200 0.408 3.9 6.7 10.7 2.4 1.4 2.0 1.31 6.4
08-09 CLE 56 53 23.5 0.445 0.00 0.422 2.4 4.0 6.5 0.8 0.9 1.3 0.61 2.9
Now, the Lakers...
D-Fish... He's an all-star at 34 years YOUNG... LOL... These numbers pop out...
06-07 UTA 82 61 27.9 0.382 0.308 0.853 0.4 1.5 1.8 3.3 1.0 0.1 1.46 10.1
08-09 LAL 82 82 29.8 0.424 0.397 0.846 0.3 2.0 2.3 3.2 1.2 0.1 0.88 9.9
Ariza was such a star in Orlando!!! LOL...
07-08 ORL 11 0 10.5 0.452 0.000 0.533 0.5 1.7 2.2 0.7 0.4 0.3 0.45 3.3
08-09 LAL 82 20 24.4 0.460 0.319 0.710 1.4 2.9 4.3 1.8 1.7 0.3 1.06 8.9
Since Big Z, Bynum, and Odom was with the team for a while, I will take the stats from last year to this year... Before and after Pau...
Z... Not a great player... LOL...
06-07 CLE 73 73 30.4 0.474 0.000 0.802 3.6 5.7 9.3 1.4 0.5 1.6 1.85 14.1
08-09 CLE 65 65 27.2 0.472 0.385 0.799 2.4 5.1 7.5 1.0 0.4 1.3 1.38 12.9
06-07 MEM 59 59 36.2 0.538 0.273 0.748 2.5 7.3 9.8 3.4 0.5 2.1 2.75 20.8
08-09 LAL 81 81 37.0 0.567 0.500 0.781 3.2 6.4 9.6 3.5 0.6 1.0 1.94 18.9
06-07 LAL 82 53 21.9 0.558 0.000 0.668 1.7 4.2 5.9 1.1 0.2 1.6 1.40 7.8
08-09 LAL 50 50 28.9 0.560 0.000 0.707 2.7 5.2 8.0 1.4 0.4 1.8 1.70 14.3
Odom... Still waiting on him to be an all-star....
06-07 LAL 56 56 39.3 0.468 0.297 0.700 1.8 7.9 9.8 4.8 0.9 0.6 2.91 15.9
08-09 LAL 78 32 29.7 0.492 0.320 0.623 2.3 5.9 8.2 2.6 1.0 1.3 1.77 11.3
LOL... Here's my point... A year before the former All-Stars were on the Cavs their stats either A stayed the same or B went down... It has nothing to do with them not producing but what team they are on and how they are utilized... Who has the better team? You tell me? You take away LBJ and you have a defensive team in the East going to the playoffs... Look at this I didn't mention how Larry Hughes and Marshall went down hill after playing with LeBron... He had a team, for some years now he had one... It's just crazy how people OVERRATE Kobe's team and UNDERRATE Lebron's...
And Alphamale... Are yu a member of Gay Phi Gay? LOL...
Who said the Lakers were stacked top to bottom? The Media, the same media who says the Cavs isn't as good as the Lakers- Talent wise? LOL... I've always thought the Lakers was overrated just KNEW the best player on the Planet was taking them further than they were suppose to be...
Put it like this... I've only seen LBJ actually put his team on his back once... VS. the Pistons but that's it... He's improved a lot this year, I give you that... But it isn't enough to give him the nod over Kobe................................
i'm not gonna get into that mess you just posted. i commend you, however, for taking the time to do that. if these playoffs dont prove to you that Lebron is a better player, nothing will. Gay Phi Gay! lol...you're hilarious...
I like both Kobe and Lebron as players. I feel like the MVP race this year was a toss up with Lebron getting more hype because of his numbers and supposed lack of talent. He did enough to earn in this year. I do not believe he is a better player than Kobe as yet. I believe his raw talent will take him there though. Please people unless you are all knowing being don't say I am making excuses when everyone that watches sports can notice that these playoffs and how they are going do not make normal sense in a time when the NBA is losing money. Also let me give you a little background on me homie, I have worked in message traffic in my military career and be in position where I knew stuff that no one outside that area knew and we had to keep it silent and if anyone asks we didnt know. I understand the thought process and structure when you are trying to do business and keep the truth from people. in business it is a necessary evil. More games equal more money and the old CBA is about to be up. The only team that is sweeping people in the Cavs who have Lebron and is not only a major draw but this is his year. The NBA is hyping him this year like they did Wade when he won it all. I have talked to many NBA fans about basketball and we all agree that the game is a rigged to some degree. We just don't know how far and since people continue to put up with it why should they stop. Millions of viewers can see something the refs missed while the refs was looking in that direction and some have it in HDTV and yet the league will uphold that refs decision. Are you serious? I am not saying that the refs control the Lakers game but I find it wierd that the Lakers could be beaten by a team twice with the same offensive strategy and with a hall of fame coach and with more than a surplus of talent advantage. A team that blew out by 40 or so and the only stupid excuse they could say was well hey you never know what team will show up. Do you really believe that? Somebody is paid off period. I am not only a basketball fan but I was going to pursue a coaching job by getting my degree in college but switch that up but there is a no way a regular coach makes these kind of mistakes so for Phil to be out coached by Rick Adelman using the same offensive strategy and only having one or two players that can get their own shot. I could understand it happening once but not twice. On top of that there has been know questionable calls in a whole bunch of other games. I do hope people are not taking this in and believing it is fact.
i will say this. i wouldnt expect anyone's numbers (ppg, ast, reb etc...) to go up playing with Lebron because when you play with a player that dominant that has the ball so much, your role will be slightly diminished. i would, however, expect their shooting percentages to go up.
Andre Iguodala is the best perimeter defender in the league. Listen to these stats of players he has defended this season: D. Wade: 19 points Kobe: 15 points Joe Johnson:5 points Hedo Turkoglu: 3 points LeBron:12 points...he has held every player he is called to guard 10 points or lower than their season average..he isnt on an all-NBA team..a disgrace
perhaps you dont understand the format for this topic...you ask DHAMP a question. After he educates us, you can then speak your mind. lol....rookie
Kobe is better than Lebron. I've been saying it all along.
Since this is my post. Are there any more questions for me. Or did I answer them all.
D Hamp... the most intelligent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.
Good timing Alphamale!
D Hamp... the most intelligent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.
Who is the best big man in the NBA today, and who rounds out the top 5. Big man being both pf and c.
Josh Tucker, Silver Screen and Roll: LeBron James is the MVP; Kobe Bryant is the better player.
Both are lockdown defenders, fantastic passers, capable of scoring or facilitating and excellent leaders of their teams. The primary differences lie in each player's individual offensive repertoires, and the key here is the versatility, polish, and completeness of each player's game.
LeBron James is a player with one primary, ultradeveloped offensive skill: his ability to get to the hoop for layups and dunks. At the same time, there are several areas that he has yet to develop. He has improved his 3-point and free throw shooting this year, but even so, both are average at best. He has no midrange jumper, he doesn't use screens effectively, and his post game is suspect. His athleticism and quickness are his primary tools, and his footwork at this point is still fairly rudimentary -- which, in part, explains why he's not better in the post. (Imagine what a player of his size, strength, and athleticism could do in the post with Kobe's footwork!)
Kobe Bryant doesn't have a single dominant skill that far outweighs all others, like LeBron does. Instead, he has the most complete, versatile, and polished skill set in the NBA. Pull-up jumper, leaner, runner, floater, fadeaway, fallaway, midrange, long-range, close-range, pump fake, jab step, up-and-under, dunk, layup, left hand, right hand, face-up, post-up, driving, elevating, strength, savvy, power, finesse, balance, body control, footwork. Bryant can do it all. His footwork, in particular, is unparalleled, and because of it, he is extremely effective in the post, making easy work of smaller players and even taking advantage of larger players without the fundamental skill set to compete with his own.
Simply put, the difference between the two boils down to unprecedented raw athleticism versus unequaled, finely honed skill.
And another dude said this.... and it may be the realist thing ever...
In some sense, we're not really debating the greatness of Kobe versus the greatness of LeBron. We're debating "how" we measure greatness.
I think that is dead-on:
"In some sense, we're not really debating the greatness of Kobe versus the greatness of LeBron. We're debating "how" we measure greatness."
Lebron is also a better rebounder and has far better court vision and passing skills than Kobe.
I will also say this, I've never understood why there seems to be such a facsination with Kobe's shooting ability...his career-high FG% is still 47% Jordan's career average was 50%. Kobe shoots 34% from 3 for his career. Lebron shoots 33% from 3. Jordan also shot 33% from 3. Is that 1% difference really that convincing?
Lebron and MJ have him beaten in every other statistical area, yet Kobe still gets mentioned in the same sentence. Kobe's a fine performer and his skill set may be ultra-polished, but the accomplishments and stats have never matched up to the "finely honed skill" and that's where I put him a solid step below those two.
What accomplishments does LeBron have? Name one? He won MVP? Kobe got 1... He has the best record in the league? Kobe was a game off (not to mention Kobe won every game vs. LBJ)... Scoring titles? All-defensive team? All-Star apperances? Gold Medal (LBJ didn't win that till Kobe came, lets not get on how Kobe influenced LBJ to play D)? I mean, be serious what has LBJ accomplished? The game is much deeper than stats... MJ and Kobe share something that LBJ don't have... A CHAMPIONSHIP... The true meaning of playing the game... I'm not saying LeBron won't win one, but RIGHT NOW... Looking at right now... Kobe is the better player... The "finely honed skills" just reiterate that...
How does the son overtake the father, when the father is still in his prime? LBJ plays D (block shots?) one year and he's automatically the best player alive? LOL...
Stats and this PER ish I continue to hear... WILT CHAMBERLAIN is the greatest of all-time... NO ONE will touch what he produced... NO ONE... NOT EVEN JORDAN.... Since we love stats so damn much... LeBron wouldn't touch Wilt's pinky toe as far as stats...
Sorry, but I choose stats and PER and Win Shares over "finely honed skills." I know how much some of you HATE those stats, but I think they are the most accurate indicators of overall value.
Kobe won 3 championships...with Shaq...who was the Finals MVP every time. Again, tired argument, but Lebron would have won 3 championships (probably more) in the same situation.
I'll take Lebron. You can have Kobe.
ps. Wilt's career PER is lower than Jordan's and Lebron's...but well above Kobe's.
Jordan had Pippen... A ring is a freaking ring... At the end of the day, Kobe has 3... An MVP without Shaq and a Finals trip... What are you saying? Where is Wilt's PER? It doesn't include block shots because they didn't record that... Wins? LOL... You can't be serious... Here's a stat 2 and 0 versus the Cavs....
Here's another stat: Cavs were 2-0 against the Lakers last year.
Steve Kerr has 5 rings, Kobe has 3 and Lebron has 0. None of them have ever been the best player on a team to win a championship, and none of them have won a championship in the past 7 years. I think that changes starting this year...and I think Lebron is currently the better player, will be the better player for the next 10 years, and will always be remembered as the better player.
We can argue it all day long...I'm not changing my mind, you're not changing yours, and I'm fine with that. I'll take the guy that gets to the hoop, distributes, rebounds and plays more consistent all-around defense.
LOL.. LeBron learned from Kobe... He was a liability on Defense his whole career... He blocks weak side shots now he's a lock down defender? LOL... I never said LeBron wasn't GOING to be the greatest of all-time... Just said stats is very misleading... LeBron gets a lot of good looks (I would rather him NOT drive too)... A lot... When was the last time you saw Kobe miss a open jumpshot? LOL...
Rings... Come on now... Steve Kerr wasn't even a starter... Charles Barkley and Karl Malone never won a ring... But they won't be considered better than Tim Duncan... NEVER... And Malone owns one of the highest point totals in history... WHY? That ring... A ring helps measure greatness... And never say "I think"... That means you don't KNOW ish... In the Air Force they say "You don't get paid to think, you get paid to know"...
And where the hell is my PER for Wilt? LOL... You don't have it huh? Wilt average 30 and 22 for his career... He average 50 points per game for a season... Im so sure that his "PER" blew Jordan's and LeBron's out of the water... KNOW YOUR ISH....
That's too much talking, my man. Not sure what your point is any more.
My point is that rings are not freaking rings...you just said so yourself...history will always judge the circumstances under which you get those rings. The fact is that Kobe was playing with a top-10 player in his absolute prime. Otherwise, he has no rings. Scottie's rings and James Worthy's rings will always mean less than MJ's or Magic's rings.
I think Lebron is better than Kobe right now, and yes, he is a better all-around defender than Kobe right now, regardless of who he learned it from...I don't care if he watched Red Auerbach defensive drills videos all summer long, he is a better, more consistent, all-around defender than Kobe right now.
You seem to think that Kobe is better than Lebron right now...although, I'm not sure what you are saying now. It's a debatable issue, I'm not in the Air Force, and I'm not getting paid to write on here.
ps. Wilt's career PER is 5th all-time according to basketball-reference.com. Although, I agree that comparing 1960's stats to anything after 1980 is a waste of time, because they would record 80+ rebounds in a game with only 50 missed shots back in the day. However, comparing Jordan's stats to Lebron's stats to Kobe's stats is more apples to apples, and Kobe's stats are not on par with the other two.
Dr. DHAMP...if there are 2 players with otherwise equal resumes, but one guy has 5 rings & no MVPs, and the other player has 5 MVPs & no rings, who had the better career?
ALPHAMALE...the Ghandi of basketball fans.
Is like the dude who hates on TMAC, except he hates on Kobe. Seriously man, is that what you live for. You're somewhat absurd too.
that question has nothing to do with Kobe! but when guys like you can't see the light, i try to help you see it. when a guy who struggles through a playoff series against a team without its 2 best players is considered better than the league MVP who goes 8-0 through the 1st 2 rounds of the playoffs and puts up better numbers across the board without playing in 4th quarters, something has to be said. i feel like you live to heap praise on Kobe. when countless posters, writers, and analyst give you all types of evidence for why Lebron is the better player and all you can muster is "stats arent everything", i consider you absurd. i get the feeling that if Lebron sweeps these entire playoffs straight to the championship you'll still come up with some excuse as to why Kobe is the best player in the NBA. something like "he didn't hit any game-winners in the finals, so Kobe is still better". i'll fight for Lebron until he's the consensus best player in the NBA. he's not even one of my top 5 faves, but the dude is remarkable and he deserves the praise. besides, what have i posted in seriousness thats so absurd?...and dont call me out here. this is DHAMPs time to shine. this is not about us. lol...
The only reason Wilt's PER is lower than everyone else is because they didn't record blocks when he played, and I'm sure he averaged around 4 or 5.
That's a nice trick open-ended question. It's subjective.
While one player may have five rings, that doesn't mean he played an important role on the championship teams. He could have been the 12th man on those teams for his last five seasons. Or, maybe he jumped out of the gate early in his career such as Ron Harper or Bill Walton, both of whose first few seasons were pretty good, but too many injuries derailed their careers and by the end, they were defensive enforcers.
Now, what if a guy wins five mvp's had no championships. Again it depends. Sometimes players measure success by championships. Others by money. Personally, I would pick the player with the five mvps because it shows that the player dominated for a long time in the league.
DHamp... the greatest basketaball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.
agreed. it wasnt meant to be a trick. what i was basically asking is: do you place higher value on rings or MVPs? i agree with you on this one.