This topic contains 22 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar chocboywndr 10 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #52738
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    Ghost01
    Participant

    …But this has to be the worst paragraph I’ve ever read assessing NBA prospects:

    "While those numbers aren’t as strong as those of Randle and Parker, there’s more to it than meets the eye. Wiggins is playing a very controlled game on offense. He’s scoring within the flow of the game and isn’t trying to dominate the basketball. While Randle and Parker are clearly options 1, 2 and 3 offensively for Kentucky and Duke, respectively, Kansas coach Bill Self isn’t running every play for Wiggins. In addition, Wiggins already has proved to be an athletic, lockdown defender who can guard multiple positions on the floor. Frankly, it’s that part of his game that is tipping the scale toward Wiggins for many scouts."


    So let me break this down.


    1. His numbers aren’t stronger than Randle or Parker, but there’s more than meets the eye. What exactly? They’ve both looked better than him, and they’ve both put up better stats then him. There isn’t much more to prove basketball superiority than that.

    2. Wiggins is playing controlled, and scored in the flow of the game, and hasn’t dominated. Translation: He isn’t doing anything except scoring on dunks and layups. Not saying that is what Chad has meant, I’m saying that is what has actually happened. He isn’t dominating anything. He looks like another dude, while Parker and Randle stick out so obviously.

    3. Wiggins has proved to be an athletic lockdown defender. And that is the part of his game that is tipping the scale for scouts…What? 90% of young players struggle on defense. We don’t even really know how Randle or Parker will be defensively. Parker is playing center. Saying that because he played good D against Rod Hood and some Mid major level players has tipped the scale towards him? So the whole Parker having 20+ in his first 5 games, Randle having double doubles in his first 5 games is negated, because neither has shown to be an "athletic lockdown defender"? C’mon Chad. You don’t even believe that b.s.

    If Wiggins wants to be No.1, he better figure out how to dominate. Because that is what franchise players do. Neither Parker or Randle has been selfish. They’ve both dominated. And Chad is acting like both are playing on the 08 Kansas State Wildcats…with his comment about them being options 1,2, and 3….Rod Hood is basically averaging the same PPG has Parker, and James Young has been steady while Aaron Harrison has also put up a nice game for UK.

    Stop hyping guys who don’t deserve it. When Wiggins performs, he’ll deserve it. Don’t bs a whole paragraph to make excuses for a guy because his high school mixtape hasn’t held water to this point. He is good. He will be very good. But no need to latch on to him. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #851241
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    Hale
    Participant

    "When Wiggins performs, he’ll deserve it."

    This is dumber than anything Ford said considering he has produced.

     

    Few more notes:

    • Parker is playing center, correct. He is also getting abused by them defensively. So how exactly is that going to transfer into the NBA, especially when he is guarding wings? Something no one has ever claimed to be a strength of his…
    • For a guy who only scores on dunks and layups, he sure scores a lot…

     

     

     

     

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  • #851130
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    Hale
    Participant

    "When Wiggins performs, he’ll deserve it."

    This is dumber than anything Ford said considering he has produced.

     

    Few more notes:

    • Parker is playing center, correct. He is also getting abused by them defensively. So how exactly is that going to transfer into the NBA, especially when he is guarding wings? Something no one has ever claimed to be a strength of his…
    • For a guy who only scores on dunks and layups, he sure scores a lot…

     

     

     

     

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  • #851249
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    ItsRainingNegs
    Participant

     Honestly, anyone that thinks LeBron wouldn’t have been the same way in college is lying to themselves. Let the analyzing rest for awhile and just enjoy the ride. 

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  • #851138
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    ItsRainingNegs
    Participant

     Honestly, anyone that thinks LeBron wouldn’t have been the same way in college is lying to themselves. Let the analyzing rest for awhile and just enjoy the ride. 

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  • #851257
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    HOops1562
    Participant

    "When Wiggins performs, he’ll deserve it." … since when has Wiggins under performed ? only in your eyes … your one of the biggest Wiggins haters on this website ….. for a freshmen i think he’s been doing pretty well not blowing the lid off college hoops but he’s doing well enough to not have to call him a disapointment …  

     

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  • #851145
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    HOops1562
    Participant

    "When Wiggins performs, he’ll deserve it." … since when has Wiggins under performed ? only in your eyes … your one of the biggest Wiggins haters on this website ….. for a freshmen i think he’s been doing pretty well not blowing the lid off college hoops but he’s doing well enough to not have to call him a disapointment …  

     

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  • #851259
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    Mad Max
    Participant

     

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  • #851148
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    Mad Max
    Participant

     

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  • #851278
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    TYO
    Participant

     I can’t speak for Randle’s defensive prowess. But Perry Ellis is a 6’8 tweener & he pretty much did whatever he wanted to against Parker last week in the Duke vs KU game.

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  • #851167
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    TYO
    Participant

     I can’t speak for Randle’s defensive prowess. But Perry Ellis is a 6’8 tweener & he pretty much did whatever he wanted to against Parker last week in the Duke vs KU game.

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  • #851202
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    JoeWolf1

    All three are great prospects, and if you like Parker or Randle better right now, that’s fine; however, I think it’s a little odd how you give them the benefit of the doubt, but assume Wiggins won’t perform.

    "What? 90% of young players struggle on defense. We don’t even really know how Randle or Parker will be defensively."

    We don’t even really know how Wiggins will be offensively, by your same logic, but you don’t think he’ll do it evidently. I’ve gone on the record as liking all three, including Wiggins. Andrew is light years ahead of those two defensively, yet you don’t seem to  hink he’ll get better. I get annoyed with hype too, but Andrew Wiggins is still a top 3 prospect and whether you want to believe it or not, he’ll easily be the best defender of the 3.

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  • #851314
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    JoeWolf1

    All three are great prospects, and if you like Parker or Randle better right now, that’s fine; however, I think it’s a little odd how you give them the benefit of the doubt, but assume Wiggins won’t perform.

    "What? 90% of young players struggle on defense. We don’t even really know how Randle or Parker will be defensively."

    We don’t even really know how Wiggins will be offensively, by your same logic, but you don’t think he’ll do it evidently. I’ve gone on the record as liking all three, including Wiggins. Andrew is light years ahead of those two defensively, yet you don’t seem to  hink he’ll get better. I get annoyed with hype too, but Andrew Wiggins is still a top 3 prospect and whether you want to believe it or not, he’ll easily be the best defender of the 3.

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  • #851205
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    canada2482
    Participant

    Looking at all 3 and the role they have for their team Randle and Parker will have better scoring numbers than Wiggins and it wont be close. Like Chad said they are not really running the offense through him. With Randle he probably be the 1st person since Cal went to UK to avg 20+pts and with Parker if he doesnt score 20+ duke is losing against good to great teams peroid. Parker is playing a lot of 4/5 right now and has a clear speed, quickness advantage over whoever is guarding him. Will he have the same edge vs lets say a L/Deng or K.Leonard when he gets to the league and plays like size and speed, quickness type guys or even lets say a G.Hayward a younger SF. With Randle he clearly is NBA body ready with his ‘go hard’ on offense he dominates all players in college, when he meets guys with the same body and physical gifts what will seperate him at the next level? I am not saying Wiggins doesnt have a few issues and has a way to go, but when you look at the total game and how things are run are they really that far off? I mean A.Davis took the what 4/5 most shots for UK when he was there. The NBA not is about what they can be, and skill set wise most coaches/GM’s think they can teach that, Wiggins is not so far off skill wise. He is more P.George than the NEVR BEFORE SEEN LEBRON

    Defensively he can be all NBA really can’t say the same about the other guys, IMO

    I love Parkers skills and Randles internal ‘go hard’- I would be glad to have a top 3 pick this yr.

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  • #851316
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    canada2482
    Participant

    Looking at all 3 and the role they have for their team Randle and Parker will have better scoring numbers than Wiggins and it wont be close. Like Chad said they are not really running the offense through him. With Randle he probably be the 1st person since Cal went to UK to avg 20+pts and with Parker if he doesnt score 20+ duke is losing against good to great teams peroid. Parker is playing a lot of 4/5 right now and has a clear speed, quickness advantage over whoever is guarding him. Will he have the same edge vs lets say a L/Deng or K.Leonard when he gets to the league and plays like size and speed, quickness type guys or even lets say a G.Hayward a younger SF. With Randle he clearly is NBA body ready with his ‘go hard’ on offense he dominates all players in college, when he meets guys with the same body and physical gifts what will seperate him at the next level? I am not saying Wiggins doesnt have a few issues and has a way to go, but when you look at the total game and how things are run are they really that far off? I mean A.Davis took the what 4/5 most shots for UK when he was there. The NBA not is about what they can be, and skill set wise most coaches/GM’s think they can teach that, Wiggins is not so far off skill wise. He is more P.George than the NEVR BEFORE SEEN LEBRON

    Defensively he can be all NBA really can’t say the same about the other guys, IMO

    I love Parkers skills and Randles internal ‘go hard’- I would be glad to have a top 3 pick this yr.

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  • #851263
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    otdogg1
    Participant

     somebody help me figure this out. Where are people drawing these comparisons like lebron, Paul George, and T mac from?I like wiggins but I have no once seen the playmaking ability or the skill set to put the ball on the floor like those players yet. he is a FREAK athlete, but he has a lot of work to do skill wise to become a franchise guy hence the difference between him and and the othere 2 phenom. Julius and Jabari are ready to make an impact right now. I cant say the same about Wiggins. Just my opinion.

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  • #851376
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    otdogg1
    Participant

     somebody help me figure this out. Where are people drawing these comparisons like lebron, Paul George, and T mac from?I like wiggins but I have no once seen the playmaking ability or the skill set to put the ball on the floor like those players yet. he is a FREAK athlete, but he has a lot of work to do skill wise to become a franchise guy hence the difference between him and and the othere 2 phenom. Julius and Jabari are ready to make an impact right now. I cant say the same about Wiggins. Just my opinion.

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  • #851287
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    FastAndFurious
    Participant

    Lebron wouldn’t have been anything like Wiggins in college, besides the athleticism part let’s be honest Lebron would have MURDERED anybody in college and been the #1 NBA prospect and #1 player in the country period.

    Wiggins is 6’8 200 pounds and right now relies heavily on his athleticism to score.

    Lebron would have went into college 6’8 240, and a very good skillset along with the freakish athleticism, Lebron could dribble, create his own shot and pass the heck outta the ball.

    No way Wiggins and Lebron would have been the same player in college, Lebron would have been 5x the player Wiggins is and that’s no knock against Wiggins because is 5x better than the competition he plays against today.

     

     

      

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  • #851400
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    FastAndFurious
    Participant

    Lebron wouldn’t have been anything like Wiggins in college, besides the athleticism part let’s be honest Lebron would have MURDERED anybody in college and been the #1 NBA prospect and #1 player in the country period.

    Wiggins is 6’8 200 pounds and right now relies heavily on his athleticism to score.

    Lebron would have went into college 6’8 240, and a very good skillset along with the freakish athleticism, Lebron could dribble, create his own shot and pass the heck outta the ball.

    No way Wiggins and Lebron would have been the same player in college, Lebron would have been 5x the player Wiggins is and that’s no knock against Wiggins because is 5x better than the competition he plays against today.

     

     

      

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  • #851494
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    Ghost01
    Participant

     I am fine with differing opinions, but very few of you directly disputed anything I said. 

    Joe Wolf- Yes Wiggins is better defensively. But lets not overrate defense. Who are considered better players? Carmelo Anthony and James Harden? Or Tony Allen and Omer Asik?

    Its not even close, yet the first two are awful defensively and the second two are awful offensively.

    Acting like offensive skill and defensive prowess are the same is just stupid. Wiggins will get better, but why wouldn’t Parker and Randle? If they all get better, then Parker and Randle will continue to be better than Wiggins. I do think Wiggins is a top 3 pick, and I would bet on him going higher than 3rd because all of these GMs seem to be anamored with the fact he plays defense.

    Let me tell you why individual defense means absolutely nothing: Look at the 2012-2013 Chicago Bulls. They played Boozer, Nate Robinson, and Bellnelli together for huge stretches, and all 3 of them started in the playoffs. Those are 3 horrible one on one defensive players, yet the Bulls won a series in the playoffs soley because of defense. When you rotate and you have rim protection and you have a good defensive scheme in place, it doesn’t matter if you have a sub level wing defender. 

    Comparing what Wiggins is doing defensively against what Parker and Randle do offensively is not the same. 

    Yet all of you harped on that point that Parker and Randle have just been terrrrrrible on defense (which you are all going off of one game for each of them, because last Tuesday is the only time either has played poor defense, Parker had 6 blocks last night). 

    I look for skills. I look for things that transition to the NBA. I don’t look at potential and defensive prowess 5 games in. I am looking for what SKILLS these guys have. I have not seen Wiggins skills. Will they come out at some point this year? Sure, I’m sure he will improve. But what I am sick of is excuses being made to keep him as the number one prospect. Parker and Randle are dominating games, and Wiggins is not. That is just a fact AT THIS POINT. 

    I do think all 3 will be phenomenal players in 5 years. That is not the point. The point is why the 3rd best guy continues to be viewed as the 1st best. That is all. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #851381
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    Ghost01
    Participant

     I am fine with differing opinions, but very few of you directly disputed anything I said. 

    Joe Wolf- Yes Wiggins is better defensively. But lets not overrate defense. Who are considered better players? Carmelo Anthony and James Harden? Or Tony Allen and Omer Asik?

    Its not even close, yet the first two are awful defensively and the second two are awful offensively.

    Acting like offensive skill and defensive prowess are the same is just stupid. Wiggins will get better, but why wouldn’t Parker and Randle? If they all get better, then Parker and Randle will continue to be better than Wiggins. I do think Wiggins is a top 3 pick, and I would bet on him going higher than 3rd because all of these GMs seem to be anamored with the fact he plays defense.

    Let me tell you why individual defense means absolutely nothing: Look at the 2012-2013 Chicago Bulls. They played Boozer, Nate Robinson, and Bellnelli together for huge stretches, and all 3 of them started in the playoffs. Those are 3 horrible one on one defensive players, yet the Bulls won a series in the playoffs soley because of defense. When you rotate and you have rim protection and you have a good defensive scheme in place, it doesn’t matter if you have a sub level wing defender. 

    Comparing what Wiggins is doing defensively against what Parker and Randle do offensively is not the same. 

    Yet all of you harped on that point that Parker and Randle have just been terrrrrrible on defense (which you are all going off of one game for each of them, because last Tuesday is the only time either has played poor defense, Parker had 6 blocks last night). 

    I look for skills. I look for things that transition to the NBA. I don’t look at potential and defensive prowess 5 games in. I am looking for what SKILLS these guys have. I have not seen Wiggins skills. Will they come out at some point this year? Sure, I’m sure he will improve. But what I am sick of is excuses being made to keep him as the number one prospect. Parker and Randle are dominating games, and Wiggins is not. That is just a fact AT THIS POINT. 

    I do think all 3 will be phenomenal players in 5 years. That is not the point. The point is why the 3rd best guy continues to be viewed as the 1st best. That is all. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #851463
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    chocboywndr
    Participant

     

    2010 Draft

     Point 1-Evan Turner #2 stats games, min, pts,rebs,3pt%, ft%, ast, rebs, blks, stl

    3135.720.451.936.475.46.09.20.91.7

                 Paul George#10

     

    2933.216.842.435.390.93.07.20.82.2

    Those are draft day stats who would you rather have now. Numbers do lie.

    Point 2

     

     he is only scoring on dunks and not dominating? I would call his second half performance against Duke pretty dominant. Just like Jabari’s first half. Jabari was 2-8 for 8 points and fouled out trying to stop Wiggins from scoring in second half. Wiggins scored 16 points along with step back jumper to take lead and followed with dunk to seal it. When matched up with Parker near end of game 1 v 1 Jabari shot air ball in crunch. Small sample size but you are one who is up in arms after 3 games.

    Point 3 

    He is a better defender than both that is a fact. You can only lock down who you play. On other hand Parker got torched by Ellis and Randle defence was more about putting his hands on his head after he commited a foul. The double doubles are nice and Randle is impressive but the fact that neither show any interest speaks volumes. Miami and San Antonio were 2 of best defensive teams in NBA. Scoring gets you to playoffs defence wins you championships. Gm’s know that so there is a value you seem to miss they place on defensive desire and ability.

    Point 4

    Your consumption with just numbers skews your vision. Firstly Parker and Randle are going to score more they are the featured players in the system. Self’s system is about the post he even admitted in interview to that so I expect Ellis will continue to lead in scoring. Wiggins will continue to get better he has improved faster than anyone thought when he arrived at Huntington there was no one that thought this Canadian kid was going to even be mentioned as top player. If you watched the Eybl you could see the progression from week to week. He became more and more dominant which translated into his senior year. In the big games and big moments against Randle and Parker he has won. Wiggins doesn’t need to match there stats to be number 1 he needs show he has strong work ethic so gm’s have faith he will fulfil his potential and the ability to concentrate against Joe Nobody as well as Jabari Parker.

    The hype machine is not something you can control and Wiggins isnt driving it. I am sure he will gladly pass the microscope to anyone else.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #851576
    AvatarAvatar
    chocboywndr
    Participant

     

    2010 Draft

     Point 1-Evan Turner #2 stats games, min, pts,rebs,3pt%, ft%, ast, rebs, blks, stl

    3135.720.451.936.475.46.09.20.91.7

                 Paul George#10

     

    2933.216.842.435.390.93.07.20.82.2

    Those are draft day stats who would you rather have now. Numbers do lie.

    Point 2

     

     he is only scoring on dunks and not dominating? I would call his second half performance against Duke pretty dominant. Just like Jabari’s first half. Jabari was 2-8 for 8 points and fouled out trying to stop Wiggins from scoring in second half. Wiggins scored 16 points along with step back jumper to take lead and followed with dunk to seal it. When matched up with Parker near end of game 1 v 1 Jabari shot air ball in crunch. Small sample size but you are one who is up in arms after 3 games.

    Point 3 

    He is a better defender than both that is a fact. You can only lock down who you play. On other hand Parker got torched by Ellis and Randle defence was more about putting his hands on his head after he commited a foul. The double doubles are nice and Randle is impressive but the fact that neither show any interest speaks volumes. Miami and San Antonio were 2 of best defensive teams in NBA. Scoring gets you to playoffs defence wins you championships. Gm’s know that so there is a value you seem to miss they place on defensive desire and ability.

    Point 4

    Your consumption with just numbers skews your vision. Firstly Parker and Randle are going to score more they are the featured players in the system. Self’s system is about the post he even admitted in interview to that so I expect Ellis will continue to lead in scoring. Wiggins will continue to get better he has improved faster than anyone thought when he arrived at Huntington there was no one that thought this Canadian kid was going to even be mentioned as top player. If you watched the Eybl you could see the progression from week to week. He became more and more dominant which translated into his senior year. In the big games and big moments against Randle and Parker he has won. Wiggins doesn’t need to match there stats to be number 1 he needs show he has strong work ethic so gm’s have faith he will fulfil his potential and the ability to concentrate against Joe Nobody as well as Jabari Parker.

    The hype machine is not something you can control and Wiggins isnt driving it. I am sure he will gladly pass the microscope to anyone else.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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