I'm going out on A Limb....
I think Kevin Love should win The MVP Award This season...even if the Wolves don't make the Playoffs this year...
Lebron has put up great numbers and The Heat are prime for a Championship run BUT he his playing Wade and Bosh and I can't take away the Impact they have on his success...
Kevin Durant has also been AMAZING, he's won big games against some tough Teams and has become a Leader this season BUT he's also got Westbrook and Harden to make things easier in OKC, having Ibaka and Perkins does not hurt either, If I took Durant off the Thunder I think they'd still make the Playoffs, again this is not a knock on KD but his team is better Than the Wolves...
Kobe Bryant, this guy has defied the Odds and critics with his play, but he's got Two of the best Big's in The NBA, his Lakers jsut got younger adding Sessions and Hill at the deadline, the Lakers would be a solid playoff if Kobe retired at the End of the Year, LA could sign or draft any young Sg and be in The Playoffs as long as they have Bynum and Gasol...This takes away votes for Kobe IMO...
The Point Guard Debate...
Paul, Rose(when healthy), Rondo and Westbrook have all Been playing at MVP levels...Paul has made the Clippers relevent again, that alone deserves a nomination or 2, Rose showed waht he ca do last year, Rondo has carried the Celtics this year and he did it while being on The Trade Block, lastly Westbrook has proven a lot of people wrong and he's becoming a complete player, that's scary to think about...
With all that said, Those great players Minus Chris Paul have and could be replaced
The Bulls have done well with or without Rose in the lineup
The Celtics still have 3 Hall of Famers and a few young guys fighting for contracts...
The Thunder have KD and a lineup that would do well with Fisher running the Pg...
Paul is guy ho couldn't be replaced in L.A...Sure they had Billups there early on, but he went down to an injury...They have Mo Williams who has been great off the bench, but isn't that his best role at this stage? Eric Bledsoe could be real good one day, but put him in the starting lineup in place of CP3 and The Clippers are not a playoff team...
The same case could made about Love in Minnesota...Sure they Beasley and Williams, two players taken with the 2nd overall pick, but played Pf in college and both were projected to play Pf in The NBA, but if you replaced Love for Beasley and Williams, The Wolves would look like well The Wolves...They also have players like Anthony Randolph and Anthony Tolliver, who are where they belong, on the bench...
If we were to take Love off The Timberwolves, I believe that Team would be in the Same spot as a Charlote or New Orleans...They would find wins very hard to come by...The Wolves were One player away from being a playoff Team before Rubio went down, and that was largly because Love emerged into a True Superstar...
He has been a force this year and there have been no answers, he's also done this against some of the toughest Teams in The NBA...
My question is why are we punishing Love for The Wolves not being a Top 4 Team in The West
They just lost their Pg and have no Starting SG worth mentioning...
If They get Rubio back and add a Shooter in Free Agency or the Draft they'll be in the Race next year...Would we punish Wilt Chamberlain for missing the playoffs while having a monster year???What if Jordan missed the playoffs but he lead the league in scoring???
I think Kevin Love is The definition of The Term MVP...And he deserves to win the award regardless if The Minnesota Timberwolves make the playoffs or not...
I wouldn't be mad if he won..
But honestly, being a playoff contender has really become a necessity when it comes to having your name in the MVP race. You're definitely right, the Wolves would struggle to find ten wins this season if Love wasn't on the floor.. But he won't get the full recognition until they get to the playoffs. Even Love said that he shouldn't be considered until 'Sota is in the playoffs.
good arguements like in other posts about klove, he deserves it as much as kd and bron.
till i read the part where jordan missing playoffs. while leading in scoring. wont happen bra
i'm a timberwolves fan, but i do not believe he should win mvp.
Would the thunder be who they are if they had love instaed of durant?
Would the Heat be as good if they had love instead of Lebron?
Rubio getting Injured ruined the Wolves chances to trade Ridnour for Jamal Crawford or Wes Mattews...
If Rubio was playing alongside Wes Mattews they'd be in the Hunt...Love has them a few games under .500 without Rubio or a Decent Sg...
If MVP really meant most valuable player to his team then yeah he should have a chance to win it. Thats not what mvp really means though. It is pretty much best player on the best team. He cant have a chance to win until he leads the wolves into the playoffs as at least like a 4th or 5th seed. Lebron James is the Mvp this year
It's absolutely incredible how infatuated this forum has become with Kevin Love. Look I'll admit it I was dead ass wrong about him. I thought he was a terrible prospect coming out. Then last year I thought he wasn't a star. This year I thought he wasn't better then Griffin. I was wrong all three times. I have no problem admitting that. But for someone to suggest that Love is the MVP over LeBron is borderline psychotic. LeBron is having arguably the best regular season ever, and he's still getting overlooked (as usual) because a lot of people don't like him. I'll just throw out one single stat for you: did you know LeBron James is shooting 8% better then Love?
I mean someone actually had the nerve to ask if the Wolves would really be better with LeBron instead of Love. REALLY??? I don't know if you guys have forgotten or anything, but LeBron took a team with less talent then the current T-Wolves to the ****ing NBA Finals, that was when he was 22 or 23, now he's 27 and better. It's not even the media now, it's just this forum that has made Kevin Love the most overrated player in the NBA, which is sad considering he might be a Top 10 player.
Kevin Love has had an amazing season. His last month has really forced me to admit how wrong I've been. He's a beast and he's only 23. But he should be no higher then 5th on anyone's MVP list.
I am one of the top K Love supporters on this site, but pretty much what Y2G said was true. Love is really fu*cking good, but he cant be higher than 5th in mvp voting this year. Lebron is the best basketball player on the planet and would make the wolves at least a 50 win team and should be mvp this year.
If Love was in OKC instead of Durant they'd still be a Championship team...He'd be in a rotation with Perkins, Ibaka and Collison....They's have rebounding, interior defense and shot blocking from those 4 players, and Kevin Love is the 4th leading scorer in The NBA and shoots 3's at a near 40% mark...What would they lose? 2 or 3 points per game, Love is better passer tahn Durant and would open more shots forn Westbrook and Harden...The Sf spot could be filled by a Defender like Luc Ricard Mbah Moute, because you would need someone who could defend the other scorers at The Sf position(KD, LBJ, Melo and Ray Gay to mae a few)
The Heat would still have a Big 3 of Wade, Love and Bosh...That's good enough to still be a Top 3 Team in The East and a Championship caliber Franchise...Wade can do what Lebron does for Miami as he has done before...Bosh could have a bigger role than he does now and that may be a good thing...Big men win Championships, not The Guards/Forwards(Minus MJ and Kobe)
that there is a difference between winning a MVP award and being a franchise player. Stop making these hypothetical scenarios of what would happen if Love was on another team. He is not a superstar like Durant, Rose, Howard, or Kobe. Neither is Steve Nash but he won it twice because the Suns wouldn't have been good without him. The MVP award pertains to a player's value to his team not the entire league.
Kevin Love is an amazing player, top 10 in the league maybe even top 5 imo. But until he shows that he can lead his team to wins consistently I don't think he deserves MVP.
Minnesota is also one of the worst paint defending teams in the NBA and Kevin Love is in part to blame for that. That is an area that he can improve on to help his team win more games. As soon as he does that I think he undoubtedly would be more deserving of the award.
Russell Westbrook in the past few weeks in my book has moved into the top 5 spot..A few weeks ago a famous sports writer i cant remember who it was that said Westbrook was more important then Durant..At 1st that sounded off base,but the way Westbrook has been playing lately,he has a good point.....
I love what Love has done this year and he could be thrown into the discussion but there is no way he is the MVP this year. I can same the same thing for Durant because the season Lebron is having is just that good. I dont care that he is playing with two other great players what he is doing and the efficiency he is doing it in is unheard of. What impresses me most about Lebrons season is that he took his weaknesses from last year and made them strengths. His post up game being the best example and the fact hes stopped just jacking up threes. Obviously to have a discussion other players (Durant Love Kobe) have to be considered but Lebron is the MVP this year.
Love has to be an MVP contender but I think the MVP does need to come from one of the 10 ten teams as a minimum. Personally I'd like to see Kevin Durant win it this year but if and when the T-Wolves get back into the play offs and Love is putting up 25/12 plus stats then he'd have a major shout at MVP.
I'm with nbanflguy, Kevin Love is damn good but shouldn't win yet. He believes he is the best PF in the game and he very well could be right.. But being the best at your position doesn't necessarily mean you should win MVP. The thing I really hate about this is that Love is so good that he gets the attention he deserves...... But then people like you take it too far and say he DESERVES the MVP. No he doesn't. Not yet. Maybe in a couple years when the Wolves are contending for a top spot in the West (that's a scary thought huh?) but until then, he is nothing above the 4-8 range for MVP consideration. People hyping him up this much just makes it worse. Lebron or KD deserve the MVP no doubt this year.
Yes Lebron is having a great season, But Its Not In The Arguably Greatest Seasons Ever. Yes its his best season ever, and thats due to effciency not the number he is putting up. Honestly He isnt having the best season ever for a SF Larry Bird still holds that top Honor! lets compare 1 of Birds Best Seasons 86-78 his 8th year in the league and at age 30
Lebron is 26.5ppg (lowest since rookie year) Birds 28.1ppg
LeBron 8.3 Rebounds to Birds 9.2 RPG
LBJ 6.5 APG to Birds 7.6 APG
LBJ 2.0 SPG to Birds 1.8 SPG
LBJ 0.8 BPG Birds 0.9 BPG
LBJ FG% 53.3 Birds was 52.5
LBJ 3pt% 36.2 (at a career low rate) Bird 40.0% (2nd highest 3pt total over a season in his career)
LBJ FT% 76.6 To Larry Bird League Leading 91.0%
LBG 3.5 TOPG to Bird 3.3 TOPG
Bird Was Better In Every Aspect Except SPG and FG% and the FG% can be skewd do to the shortened season since there is less games there is less time for the averages to truly even out!
LeBron James is Having One Of The Better Season We Have Seen In Years But Its Truly Not In The Argument Of Greatest Season Ever Statistically Speaking!
Love is having a great season, but won't win MVP. Lebron and Durant are far more deserving.
At this point of the season, there is no way anybody else wins it outside of LeBron, Durant, and POSSIBLY Kobe, if he starts shooting a percentage that doesn't look like an Asian's high school GPA -- .425? Really?
John Wall is shooting a better FG% than Kobe at this point...
Hell, Chris Duhon is shooting a better 3PT% than Kobe's FG%.
Like I said, it's pointless to even argue who's 5th or 6th or 7th, even 4th in the MVP race. It's quite obvious at this point that it's either Durant or LeBron.
I think Y2G was pointing to the fact that in terms of player efficiency rating (PER), LeBron was set to possibly overtake the 1987-88 mark of 31.71 by Michael Jordan (the highest PER since they have kept all of the statistics necessary). Since John Hollinger's article, LeBron's PER has actually dropped to 30.4 from the 32.4 mark he was at on March 1 when it was written. This would actually be LeBron's 3rd best mark, behind his two MVP awards in 2008-09 and 2009-10 (31.67 and 31.1).
Still, while I think that JBickart14 made a great point about Larry Bird's incredible individual season in 1986-87 (a season in which he had Kevin McHale averaging 26.1 plus 3 other over 10 ppg scorers, with a 59-23 record with a 4-2 Finals loss to the Lakers), I was wondering why Larry's PER was 25.6 in comparison to LeBron's now 30.4. What hit me was, PER is pace adjusted. The average scoring team in 1986-87? 109.9 ppg (Celtics were 6th in the league at 112.6 ppg). Average scoring team this season? 96 ppg (Heat are 4th with 101 ppg).
So, while I think that JBickart made a fantastic point that there have indeed been better individual seasons than LeBron's this year, if you adjusted LeBron to the pace back than, his statistics might look even more ridiculous. If you look at the season Mike got the record, he averaged 35 ppg, 5.5 rpg and 5.9 apg. The year before, Mike's highest scoring season ever, he had a PER of 29.8 while putting up 37.1 ppg, 5.2 rpg and 4.6 apg.
That being said, PER is definitely not the end all be all of statistics. I still think it tends to favor big men and those who get more consistent minutes, plus it only factors in defensive statistics rather than full intangibles. One thing I will say is, LeBron is playing at an incredibly efficient level and I would like to see the math of what his numbers might look like pace adjusted to 1986-87 (which requires more work than I want to do right now). He is also playing fewer minutes than Larry and while he does indeed have two HOF players with him, the balance of the team was not what Larry had with the Celts during that time.
As far as Scarecrow's argument, it is really hard for me to be on the Kevin Love for MVP bandwagon. Lets remember, we know LeBron played with a relatively weak supporting cast and continually led them to not only the play-offs, but never lost in the first round once he got there. The reason I dislike the "look at how much talent he has with him" argument is that it automatically flips to the player with less talent around them who is putting up monster numbers. One thing that seems to be pretty consistent is, when a team starts not just winning, but competing at a high level, those numbers go down.
Kevin Love has had a phenomenal season and has played better than any PF in the league. I am impressed with how much he has done for the Timberwolves and his numbers are a throwback to times of some of the great individual seasons in NBA history. With this being said, I still think that LeBron James and Kevin Durant at the very least are having better individual seasons, combined with team success. I saw what nbanflguy wrote about Love's synergy shooting percentage, but LeBron plays incredibly higher level defense and I think Durant is getting there as well. I think LeBron is playing better basketball than he ever has and Durant is having a phenomenal season as well. They may have more talent, but it is not like they are not doing anything with it.
I do not think record means everything, but I think there is a flaw in your logic. Kobe Bryant was punished for being a 7th seed in a year he averaged 35.4 ppg. Mind you, look back to what I was saying about adjusted pace. Plus, I think you could make more of an argument for Kobe being the best individual player in the game than Love. You do not necessarily have to be the games best player to win the MVP, but I think it helps.
Also, to answer your question about Wilt having monster seasons and Michael Jordan leading the league in scoring: They did not win the MVP when they had a losing or even bad record. It might not have always been right, but the lowest either of there teams were in the standings was a 3 seed when they won MVP. Wilt did not even MVP the year he averaged 50.4 ppg and 25.7 rpg, it went to Bill Russell (18.9 and 23.6). Wilt and Oscar Robertson (who had his famous triple double season) combined for 22 first place votes to Wilt's 51. Wilt actually won 2 MVP's in his 7 scoring title seasons and 2 outside of them.
My final point is, you are really putting Kevin Love in the same category as Wilt and Michael Jordan? I mean, he is having a great season, but he is not either of those guys. Come on man! LeBron and KD are both players who clearly seem to be more historically accurate MVP candidates and I think are becoming the two best players in the league. Kevin Love is having fantastic season, but while he may be carrying a team of misfits, that does not necessarily means he has the same overall impact as LeBron and Kevin Durant, the two guys I think are fighting for MVP right now.
Usually guys don't win the MVP award in their first great year. Nor do they give it to a guy on a team that doesn't make
the playoffs. But he is in the discussion. He is in the running and he will receive votes but it is not his time. Maybe next year.
But this MVP race is between LeBron and Durant.
I have Kevin Love just ahead of Kobe for third place. Love's numbers are better and he has less help.
After that I would consider Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Russell Wetbrook, and Wade.
Right on. I was typing almost that exact same thing but accidentally hit refresh. Love is 23, on a .500 (generous) team, doesn't cut it for people outside of minnesota. As someone from minnesota this kills me to write. You can't put Love in front of Durant and Lebron, but you can't put anyone between Love and them.
Why can't Howard and Rose go before Love? I could make a case for about 3 others as well.
Dwight Howard is undoubtedly more valuable to Orlando then Love is to Minnesota. The whole team is designed to work only with an elite center. If you replace him with even an average center Orlando is a 10 win or under team. Yet with him they are 32-19 I believe. Unless you're discrediting Derrick Rose for missing games (logical) then no way is Love ahead of him either. They are 13-5 without him with 7 wins against bottom 5 teams and they are 28-6 with him. The Bulls wouldn't be bad without him, but he makes them a legit title threat and puts them over the top.
&$#%#&@! John Hollinger and his nerd stats.
Great player though. Team has to be in the hunt to trully say your making a difference oppose to putting up numbers on a bad squad.