Igoudala still a Sixer?
I think iggy will be moved this off-season..i think The young nucleus of Jrue, Lou, Turner will hold it down and Philly will try and move Igoudala for a big man. Turner really showed me something in this series. I expect him to continue to get better and i think he is our starting 3 next season. Philly needs to upgrade at the 2 and at the 5 spots.....I think next year Lou, meeks, and thad (needs to be re-signed) will come off the pine.
Are there any centers out there that you think could be had for Igoudala?
in addition big props to Dougie Fresh for putting together a nice season with a so-so squad..
Iguodala had a good season and playoffs, his trade value will not be any higher. I am not sure the 76ers can get a legit big man for him. Best case scenario would be get a couple of draft picks and maybe a vetern big who can score a few points and protect the paint. If Branden Haywood did not have that awful contract he would be a good fit.
I can name a few... Im not familiar with salaries, but you mentioned one right there.. A few tms have 2 solid centers on their rosters...
LA clippers - D jordan / Kaman
Lakers - Bynum / Gasol
Mavs - Chandler / Haywood
Denver - Nene (he can opt out, which im sure he will to test the market)
Portland - Camby, Pryzbilla, Oden
Suns - R lopez / Gortat
That is just a few... I do not feel many of these are worthy straight up, and im sure salaries do not match up with most, but do you think any of the above would be a good fit?
how about Iggy & Hawes for Kamen & Aminu?
I do not think Philly can afford to move Hawes personally... So many slashers, and he is an excellent passer as a big.. IMO speights needs to go.. He and Brackins are the same player anyway..
Id love to package Iggy / Speights together.... NOcioni will be in last yr of contract too.
Salaries are close. Raps get thier 3. Sixers get a legit 20 point big.
I like that idea PaulsJayhawks but it doesn't really help the Sixers defensive problems at C plus I doubt the Raptors would give up Bargs. I would also take Rudeboy's deal in a heart beat. Another team that might be interested in Iggy would be the Memphis Grizzlies with Marc Gasol.
@Microwave, I'm gonna talk about some of those free agent centers you listed and tell you which ones will not be on the market and will stay with their current teams.
Deandre Jordan: He is the new Center for the Clippers. He did excellent this season next to Blake Griffin. And he has finally started to reach his potential after being drafted in the second round of the 2008 draft. (He should have gone first round though). I am certain that he did enough this season to warrant a new contract and I don't expect him to leave the Clippers
Greg Oden: The Blazers still have hopes for this guy. They still think he can be healthy a full season and be a dominating force. They pretty much have to be optimistic with Brandon Roy's future on the line and probably will never return to the player he once was. Aldridge can't do it alone, and Greg Oden is all they have left, they will try and keep him no matter what it takes just to stay afloat in the tough Western Conference. I don't think Pryzbilla is on the Blazers any more. He was traded to the Bobcats as part of the Gerald Wallace trade.
Tyson Chandler: He knows that he cannot be good without a true point guard. The Sixers don't exactly have a good PG. Jrue Holiday is no where near the level of Jason Kidd or even Chris Paul. And those are the kind of good PG's I'm talking about. I know Jason Kidd is soon to be a free agent but that doesn't mean the Mavs wont attract another great PG like Kidd to restore their team to victory. Deron Williams is a free agent the same time that Kidd is off the books. He's from Dallas so who's to say he won't return home and help Dallas become champions. Chris Paul is also a free agent at this time. He may stay close to his current home and go to Dallas to start winning more. As long as their is a PG in Dallas that is as good as Jason Kidd is don't expect Chandler to move.
Marcin Gortat: He became something in Pheonix and he was able to shine without Dwight Howard. They like him, and even more so than Robin Lopez. They know that a duo of him and Channing Frye is pretty good, not great, but still good and just what the Suns need. Gortat isn't really the guy to abandon ship when his team needs him, especially considering the fact that he was in Pheonix for not even a year.
Marcus Camby: He may very well not be a Blazer this offseason but I think he's done. I think he will retire after this season. His legs are just about shot, and I think he wants a break from basketball. Don't get me wrong I do like the guy and I do think the Sixers definitely need him, but I don't think he has anything left in those legs of his.
Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol: Don't expect the Lakers to move Bynum or Gasol. I truly think that Gasol and Kobe will both retire Lakers. The only guy the Lakers will move Bynum for is Dwight Howard. So no, there isn't a chance that Iggy will go to the Lakers. These guys are better than Iggy is. Why would the Lakers move them when Iggy isn't nearly as good as Pau and Bynum are? The Sixers are probably going to have to get lesser value than Iggy is worth if they want to trade him. There aren't too many teams in this league who want to get rid of their big man, and certainly not one that is on the level of Iggy.
That said, there are only four on your list left (Nene, Haywood, Lopez, and Kaman) Haywood and Nene are soon to retire and are going to want to spend their last years in the league on championship contenders in order for them to get at least one shot at the ultimate glory. The Sixers aren't exactly a contending team and nor do I expect them to become one during the offseason. They don't really have that much money to move around with. (Only 4 million and actually the Salary Cap may very well be lowered because of the lockout. There may be hard cap which makes it even harder to sign players.) So I don't think Nene and Haywood will come to the Sixers.
Robin Lopez and Chris Kaman are really the only shot at big men the Sixers have. Neither are near the level of Iggy, but that is just my point. Iggy will most likely be moved for one of these two big men and some draft picks. I expect either Robin Lopez or Chris Kaman to become Sixers this offseason.
Ward B i disagree with you saying Jrue isnt a great PG, especially after watching his play vs. Miami. Currently he is a much better PG than Kidd (I used to love Kidd to but he i just getting too old to compete with today's PGs). Jrue is only what like 20 years old, he is the leader of that team IMO, and is already at the 2nd tier or 3rd tier level of PGs in the league. Jrue's future is bright and many players would love to have him dishing to them.
Yea WardB you were a bit off on saying that the Sixdogs don't have a good point guard. Other than that I pretty much agree with your points.
I saw some of the names of the bigs and some look good on paper others just would not happen. The big problem for Iguodala is that he plays a position that is very easy to replace. Look at the NBA every team has atleast one good wing. That is why PG's and C's are so important, you cant really replace a all-star big or pg for a all-star wing and a couple of good guys. But its been proven you can replace an all-star wing for a couple of good players.
Tyson Chandler is a free agent and no way he signs with the 76ers (wardb12 is right no true point means Chandler numbers go south).
Bynum isnt going anywhere unless its to the Magic for Dwight (not saying that would happen either). Gasol is the future for the Lakers no way they trade him for a wing.
Camby could have been the guy that really helped the 76ers, but after the trade for Gerald Wallace they dont need another wing.
DeAndre Jordan looks great next to Griffin and he is young, and plus he has a small contract. Kaman is the odd man out in LA but I dont think they could but a trade together without a third team.
I have to say that Jrue is already a good starting PG; doesn't make the top 10, but definitely just on the bubble. Considering this is only his second year, he is definitely a keeper to build around.
All these years of talk about trading Iggy I find interesting. The guy is clearly a player. Every contender would love to have him on their team. He isn't ever going to be a first option and ideally he isn't your second option. But man, put him on a team as the third option and he shines. I don't see how you get a good enough big for him though. Does anyone ever trade a good starting center? Do you really want a career backup for Iggy?
Also, I think Iggy will still be better than Turner next year. Maybe not the year after that, but Turner still has a ways to go.
Holliday is going to be great, but we are talking about the present. He is more of a scoring pg right now in his career.
He is only more of a scoring PG because Iggy plays point forward for them.. remove iggy, and jrues APG go up... That is a no brainer.
Holiday has a bright future, there's no denying that. I do like him, but he isn't near the level of Jason Kidd, Chris Paul or Deron Williams. He has the potential to be that good but he isn't there yet. Holiday has not gotten too many double double's. He still has not averaged over 7 asists yet. (Only averaged 6 this season) Not to say he won't. He may very well average 7 or 8 assists next season. But that is still not at the level of Paul, Williams or Kidd. These guys are averaging double double's every season. Holiday isn't quite there yet. I do think he will get there but Chandler needs someone who is there already. Holiday will get there but he isn't there yet, and nor will he be there next year.
Tallman NYC is correct. Jrue Holiday is a good PG but he is not in the top 10 yet. And that's the kind of PG that Tyson Chandler needs to be good in this league. That is exactly what I meant when I mentioned Jrue Holiday in my earlier post.
So basically, you're saying all FA centers this season will stay put or retire? Not likely in this day and age. And what about Marc Gasol?
you are correct chris paul, and D-will, but Jason kidd is becoming an old man.... If you are talking "career" then that makes sense, otherwise it makes no sense at all. Only 4 PG's in the entire league averaged double digit assists per game .. Jrue was tied for 16th in the lg at 6.5 APG. only 1 PG is in the top 10 for double doubles, and J-kidd is not even in the top 40...
name me 10 PG's better than jrue HOliday.... you listed the same 3 twice now.. Name me 7 more..
in bwards opinion:
#3)j-kidd (i think your nuts)
#4) d-rose ( id assume)
#5) Westbrook (id assume)
Rondo and Tony parker are only others id place ahead of him right now.. Hes already better than jennings, lawson, jameer nelson, mike conley, andre miller..i think .So assuming you agree with my list, and were adding rondo / parker to it... Name me #8, #9, and #10 that are currently better NBA PG's than jrue holiday. (maybe john wall is another wild card, but jrue would still be top 10)
(also keep in mind, philly is the only team in the ENTIRE NBA that has 2 players in the top 20 in APG)---iggy being the latter..
I don't see why the 6ers would trade Iguodala. As ESPN pointed out, based on his defense he's arguably a franchise player and means so much to that team. He could have scored more this year but deferred some to Holiday and Meeks who were coming into their own, as well as an almost-back-to-form Brand and a terrific Lou Williams.
When he wants to be, Iggy is good for 18, 6 and 5 and is one of the best man-to-man defenders in the league and rarely ever misses a game.If I'm the 6ers and looking to make a splash I would first dangle Hawes, Turner and Meeks and draft picks as trade pieces.
If you take Iggy away from this team they're a bottom feeder because that defensive intensity that Doug Collins-coached teams thrive on. Adding a guy like Kaman and losing Iggy would be a step back.
I am not opposed to that either, just not sure what you get for meeks, turner, and the 16th pick (roughly) in the draft..
I agree not all those guys sound extremely attractive, but it depends how you look at it. Meeks is an ace shooter who can drop 25 on any given night, Turner was the #2 overall pick and everyone agrees he'll be good when he comes into his own, and the 16th pick is valuable any year...would the Warriors turn down Turner and the 16th pick for Biedrins?
great question... he did not even come to my mind... high energy guy, hustles..
I don't want to give up Iggys defense for nothing. Jrue is an absolute monster on defense. He has played solid all year but holy shit did he raise his level come the playoffs. Shutdown d-wade and lebron down the stretch in game 5 then hit that big 3. Turner is going to turn into a great defender at the 2 but only marginal at the 3 cuz he just isn't quite tall enough. Jrue and Turner are also above average rebounders. You add those two plus Iggy at the 3 and that is one hell of a rebounding/defensive frontcourt for the next couple of years.
@Grandpa, When did I say that all FA Centers will retire this season? Show me where I said that, cuz I don't remember ever saying that, and nor do I think that will happen. There are certainly a few like Camby and Haywood who are very near retirement. But the guys I listed are not even close to all the FA Centers this offseason. You are so ignorant
The fact that you are even hesitating for a second to list Rondo as a better PG than Jru Holiday tells me all I need to know about your understanding of the value of point guards. Let me give you some help. You do not evaluate point guards based just on their points per game.
To finish out your list of top ten point guards, the five guys you list and Rondo, Nash (obviously just an oversight that you forgot to mention the two time MVP), Tony Parker, Andre Miller, Billups, Raymond Felton, and I'm partial to Steph Curry. That is tweleve. Wall, Conely and Jennings are going to have suporters as well, but I see them at about the same level as Jrue.
Yeah they can get Brook Lopez and some cap filler for Iggy.
Only way I see the Nets moving Lopez is if Dwight Howard is coming to play with DWill.
Nash was definitely an oversight, but myself like many do not doubt Rondos defensive and passing ability. What i do doubt is, how good he will be w/o pierce, allen, and KG.. Maybe one can not assess him that way, but i personally do. Hes a great player with what he has.. Just want to see him once they all move on. Felton? LOL we can agree to disagree on him. Steph Curry? How many pts does he give up per game? Id argue nearly as many as he scores. Jennings a career 30 some odd % shooter? Maybe you do not understand the value of good PGs... If you think Brandon Jennings is on same level as Jrue, you definitely do not know your ass from your elbow, and i mean that with as much sincerity as possible...
@microwave: Why do I need to name 10 PG's better than Jrue Holiday right now. Think of them yourself. Yes, Jason Kidd is old, but that doesn't mean he's not good. He still averages more than 6.5 assists per game. NBA.com says he averages 6.6. But he still demands some respect. He is a top 10 PG in my mind, even if he is old. Just because he averages just barely above what Jrue Holiday averaged in assists this season does not mean he is not better than Jrue Holiday. He probably could average more assists but he knows he doesn't need to because he has proved everything and no one really doubts him anymore. (and if you still do than you need to stop and just think about what he has done throughout his career.
Holiday is only in his 3rd season, of course he's not gonna be as good as Jason Kidd, Chris Paul or Deron Williams is. That would be amazing, and if he was that good right now than he would have led his team past the Heat in the playoffs this year, and probably would have had a career year, and would be deserving of the MVP but in no way will he be considered an MVP this year or next year.
If you want me to list 10 point guards better than Jrue Holiday right now in their careers than I will, but I don't think I need to because it's blatently obvious that he is not there yet. Not to say he won't be there in the future but he isn't there yet.
1. Derrick Rose
2. Chris Paul
3. Deron Williams
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Rajon Rondo
6. Steve Nash
7. Jason Kidd
8. Tony Parker
9. Chauncey Billups
10. John Wall
I think I'd put Jrue Holiday around 11-15 on this list. So, yes close to the top 10, but not there yet. He will get there in the future but he is not there yet. Tyson Chandler needs a top 10 PG (one there right now, not in the future) next to him in order to be good. Jrue Holiday, isn't there yet. And he probably won't be there for another 2 or 3 years.
if i based PG's just on their PPG, Steph curry would be top 3.....(curry averaged more Turnovers per game , and less assists per game) Should one continue to question who values PG's properly? Considering you value the ones with lesser #'s and worse records?
jrue averaged 14.5 ppg, 6.5 apg, 1.5 spg, and 4.1 rpg....
jennings is a career 37.9 % shooter (had to look it up to be sure, he also averages less apg, and less rpg..His steals are the same...
your list ---- #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #8, and #10 (despite his erratic play) i will agree with you on. At this pt in their careers we can agree to disagree on Billups / and Kidd. (they had awesome careers, but are on the downslide now)
1. Derrick Rose
2. Chris Paul
3. Deron Williams
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Rajon Rondo
6. Steve Nash
7. Jason Kidd
8. Tony Parker
9. Chauncey Billups
10. John Wall
To the guy who said the Raps wouldnt give up Bargnani for Iggy I would like to know what it is your smoking and maybe I will try it if it is just really strong weed but Im betting it is something else...the bad stuff. Raps do that trade in a heartbeat, draft either Irvng, Kanter, or Valanciunas, and try their best to sign someone like Dalembert, Oden, Gasol etc. Then they make the playoffs with a great future...
Okay, I shouldn't put Jennings better than Jrue. I actually didn't, I just said those three guys (Jennings, Wall, and Conely) have supporters. But I put his name out there and you are right, the shooting percentage is just terrible. He can't be considered better than Jrue shooting like that.
I know Steph's D isn't great, but I don't think Steph gives up more than he gets, because Steph is so complete and efficient as a player. 82Games has Steph a nice plus 3 compared to the production that opposing teams get from their point guards when he is on the floor.
You might want to look away for the Sixer data. Jrue doesn't fare so well on this metric. Iggy, however, rocks.
ok you argued the steph assesment well.. Im glad we both agree on Jennings.. He has been horrible this year..
Conley and Jrue are so much better then Jennings at this point. Jennings is one of the worst starting PGs in the league.
I really think that Jrue has a chance to be something pretty special. He is 20 years of age until June and was the clear cut leader on the floor for the Sixers this postseason. Anyone who watched the whole series noticed that Holliday took control of some big situations on both offense and defense. I can't wait to watch him develop.