If Lebron and Kobe are so good.. Why all this help??
Should you really need Dwight, Nash, Wade, Bosh Gasol, Allen just to win a 'ship??
Serious question here..
No other team is stacking talent here. Lebron and Kobe are supposed to be the two best yet also have to have the MOST help? Explain..
I could understand if other teams are loading up with top notch players but no other team is.
Well you see it's simple, 5 people have to play at one time. And if you are 2 of the best 3 players in the league today, why wouldn't you surround yourself with talent.
I have been saying the same thing for years. Yes ,Lebron is the best player in the NBA. However if he stuck around in Cleveland and won there!!! He would have been legendary.
What you are telling us is that Lebron isn't legendary?
I guess opinoins are like buttholes, everyone has one and yours' stinks!
He's a great player, but switching teams to more easily win a championship with the Heat definitely makes him only a great player to me, nothing more. He tried taking the easy road, Dwayne Wade was widely considered his primary rival many of his previous years. If he had stayed in Cleveland (his hometown) and won (which I believe he could have) he would reach a legendary status. That's different than Kobe, who has won 5 championships with the same team and while there have been bumps on the road there has never been a question what team he plays for. At 34 (?) years old he's allowed to get some help. Lebron on the other hand was just about breaking into his prime when he switched teams, that's comparable to Michael Jordan switching to the Jazz after his rookie contract.
This is all my opinion, I don't think this is something that will be a widespread belief...
kobe's single best individual season he ever had was when he dropped 35.5 a game and was all first team defense and he won squat. You need help. The game is not and has never been about one player.
Name me one player who carried their team to an NBA Championship without another All Star...I'll wait...
Basketball is still a team game and when you get to a competition level as high as the NBA Finals if you only have one transcendant player you are going to be exploited plain and simple. For an example of this look no further then the Sixers Allen Iverson era. Allen Iverson is one of the greatest talents to ever lace up and at times during his prime was simply the best player on the planet. His MVP trophy and 2 All Star Game MVP along with the ridiculous scoring numbers and MPG he put up over the course of his career all attest to this.
If the 2001 Finals was Kobe vs A.I. then Iverson would have a ring. Not even Kobe was on A.I.'s level that year. He single handledly carried the Sixers to the chip and made a well oiled Lakers machine who rolled into the Finals undefeated pump their breaks by dropping 48 in a game one overtime victory. Then Shaq happened while Iverson continued to outduel Kobe.
Bird had a stacked Celtics team. Magic had Kareem and the showtime Lakers. Jordan had Pippen and numerous other All Star calibur talent like Dennis Rodman, Horice Grant, Ron Harper, and Toni Kukoc during his titles. Hakeem had Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell, Vernon Maxwell, Robert Horry, and Otis Thorpe.
It took Pierce, Garnett, and Ray Allen to form with Rondo during their prime to muster one ring.
And look at a team like the Thunder who got Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka and a ton of other talent.
So yeah Kobe was never gonna win a ring with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown and Lebron didn't have much more of a chance with Mo Williams and Anderson Varajeo.
So yes they do need help although I will say that the way Lebron is playing right now he might of eventually won one in Cleveland but his goal has always to win multiple rings not just one and for that to be possible he needed a much better team.
I agree with your point but one exception is Hakeem's 1994 championship team. The Dream was their only All Star that year (Otis Thorpe made it once in 1992 so I guess you could consider him an All Star). Just makes you remember how dominant Hakeem was, and how lucky he was that Jordan decided to vacate the throne for a bit
sonnnn... post more...
A post like this suggests that you have followed and1 your whole life and that you just switched to the nba about a week ago. Listen buddy the nba is a team sport, not an individual sport like swimming or track. You need great players with you to make it to the top. Look at how stacked the top 20 soccer teams in the world are, look at Barca, they're like an nba all star team in terms of talent.
Also have you only followed lebron when he moved to Miami? Did you not hear of the Cleveland Cavaliers? And their terrible record once lebron left them? If you deny lebron is the best player today, I don't know how to help you. If you deny that Kobe or as you didn't mention Kevin Durant don't belong in the Greatest today conversation, I don't either. No player has ever won a chip by himself. Basketball is played in a way that even a team of 5 D1 players can beat a team with Michael Jordan and 4 other D3 players. MJ never won a title until he had the greatest defender of all time beside him.
Heck Kevin Durant has the best shotblocker in the nba, the 6th man of the year who could make the all star team, one of the best point guards in the nba, as well as a pretty deep bench. That's a lot of help right?
And yes you do need a Nash, a Howard a Bosh or a Wade to win a chip now, because the rich are getting richer and the best teams are becoming more stacked. To beat them you need more talent as well. The superteam movement is influencing a lot of the best players from the worst teams to team up on the best teams for the sake of winning a chip. They know that they don't have a shot at winning many individual awards so are opting to get team ones. Lebron or KD will probably be the only MVP selectees for the next 6 years so others don't have a chance. There are usually only 3-4 new spots per year for the allstar team so competition is tough. Players just wanna win and get team glory on their resume because of the difficulty of achieving individ awards. Hence you have a lot of superstars that act like magnets to other superstars be it because of the luxury of the destination, the quality of the club, the friendship between the two or the common goals.
Remember that time Jordan won a title without Hall of Famer Pippen?
yes I do.....oh wait, no, that never happened!
"Hey Kobe guess what!? we just gave up a bag of peanuts to get a 2 time MVP Point Guard, sound good?"
"Na man I wanna impress some moron on the internet and win by myself, just bring Smush Parker back"
The Lakers are paying him more than 10 mil a year for 3 years. A golden bag of peanuts. Remember when the Suns let go of Amare Stoudemire? Looks kinda smart now. Back problems, knees held together with glue. Nash is going to age very soon. Remember this reply, you can give me thumbs down. But Im right...
It's not to impress any of us. That would just be an extremely competitive way to view the game. I personally have that view all the time.. I don't want to play on the same team as the other better players, or swim on the same relays.. I would much rather play against them and try and beat them...
maybe because teams win championships and not single players. what about bird, magic or jordan? they are considerd all time greats and even they had help...
what i don´t get is, that people scream for help for good players when they are on bad teams. once they get help the same people scream that it is unfair to have "superteams".
Mike Played with a top 50 player (Pippen)
Bird had two top 50 player (Mchale and Parish)
Magic had two top 50 Players (Kareem and Worthy)
Malone had a top 50 Player (Stockton) Even though Utah never won a title
But great player have always been paired up, its just seems different now because of the growth of media and the power of Free Agency. Yet the stars have always shined together
Barkley and KJ, Robinson and Duncan, Isiah and Dumars. Larry Johnson and Alonzo, Kemp and Payton
The answer is very simple: basketball is a team sport.
A team with depth and great teamwork (a la spurs, celtics, bulls) will beat a team of 1 legend with no help in a 7 game series. Every player needs help. The 2008 celtics showed that. It's no longer a league where each team has a star. Either you play the chemistry approach or you build a top heavy team with 2 superstars or 3 all stars.
Nobody can win gunning by themself. Need more examples besides LeBron and Kobe? How about AI, KG, Tmac, Paul Pierce, Melo, Vince Carter,Dwight, shaq, MJ. The list goes on
He's so great but couldn't get it done in Cleveland so he ran away to Miami where the role players got him a championship. Kobe simply gets it done, can't really argue with him.
Yeah well past teammates include Shaq, Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Paul Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Steve Nash, Dwight Howard, Adam Morrison :) etc you should get it done. Who did Lebron ever have in cleveland?
Kobe gets it done alone? i remember Kobe missing the play-offs when shaq got traded and Phill left the lakers. as confident as Kobe is about his abilities, he's been humbled in this league to know that you need top quality teamates to be a true contender. missing the play-offs as well as several first round exits has shown that. look at LJP's post, its right on the money.
umm Dirk? How many ( current ) all stars on that team. Kidd and Marion were all stars years ago but now are role players
Dirk carried that team. Sure, Jason Terry made some clutch shots. But there was never a question who the ball was going to in a key moment. It was one of the more impressive efforts I have watched..
How the heck would you expect Lebron to match up against OKC without other stars on his team?