If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10
Kobe stans can no longer hate on the Lebron parade for him being on a stacked team. The Lakers are easily the most stacked team in recent memory. In comparison, if this was the late 90s, they would have the best SG (Jordan), the best center (The Dream), and 2nd best PG (Stockton) on their team.
If Kobe can't win it all this year, I don't see how he can even be in the top 10. I know the argument will be "Oh he's got 5 rings." That is just a generic argument. Robert Horry has 8 rings and that does not reflect the SUBSTANCE of his real contributions on the court. Karl Malone is one of the greatest players I have ever seen but he has absolutely no rings.
Just real talk.
Kobe just aint got it if he can't pull this one off.
So I could give this post 4 thumbs down.
Awful post, and I'm not even a Kobe fan
Kobe's already a top 10 player of all-time and he's already proven that he doesn't need this stacked of a team to win.
The only one who's legacy can really be hurt by this scenario is Dwight. For Kobe, it's just icing on an already great cake.
wow, kobe is clutch, I mean it's Kobe for god's sake!!!!,
he was the vital centerpiece for the Lakers franchise for the past years, he carried the team to when he has kwame brown on his team,
Well, haters gonna hate. Idk if you're a heat fan or a bieber fan but just by posting this thread, you made yourself look dumb and embarassing. Shame on you for posting this.
If Kobe doesnt...Vanessa will
It's not a generic argument if he was your best or second best player on five different championship teams. Don't compare Kobe and Horry
Are we talking about Kobe being a top ten player of all time or a top ten player in the league. Because yes, if the Lakers don't suffer any injuries and if Nash's game doesn't fall off and if Howard makes a full recovery from his back issues, and Gasol's game doesn't fall off (he is getting old as well), then this is a stacked team and it should at the very least only lose to OKC in the West or the Heat in the Finals. No other team should be able to touch these guys in the playoffs (regular season is a different story). And if the Lakers don't win those games, then I think people need to start recognizing that Kobe isn't nearly the player he was in the past. He takes a huge number of shots per game (much more than Lebron, Melo or Durrant) and that keeps his per game scoring average up.
I don't think this season can hurt Kobe's legacy. And if he wins a Championship and scores points, people will say he was the best player on the team. So this may even help his legend. And if the team suffers, well people will just start to realize that Kobe is old and really isn't the scorer he used to be. But a lot of us already know this we don't need this season to figure it out.
Kobe won five rings as a star on his team. For the legacy of a player that is something much different than doing it as a role Player. If you really look at Kobes carrer there should be very little debate about this. To me he is Top 10...
I hate when comments like this come up. Everytime a player is really good and has a bad team around him everybody screams for a better supporting cast. And when really good players play with other real good players people all the sudden don´t like that as well....
Everybody can choose to not like LeBron or Kobe or any other player but we all should be reasonable. Not to like a player should not change the way we rate their skills on the court.....
Unreal... I'd be willing to put Kobe in my top-5 of all-time.. Yes I'm a fan of his. But I've always loved his competitiveness and in his prime I'm not sure there is anyone (besides Michael Jordan in his prime) I'd want to have the ball in isolation with the clock winding down... Not to mention he's won 5 championships... And don't give me... oh he had a great supporting cast... Lebron needed Wade and Bosh to win this past year.. Michael Jordan had Scottie Pippen... KG needed Paul Pierce and Ray Allen... NBA Championships are not something that great players can just show up and win..
the Lakers don't win one more. However, I wouldn't put too much pressure on their first year together. They will need to build chemistry and trust first. Maybe even a new coach, I wouldn't be surprised if Phil Jackson came back to. I mean the Heat didn't win their first year so I won't be shocked if the Lakers don't even make the conference finals.
I can buy Kobe not being a top 10 guy NEXT SEASON if he doesn't get it done. But, he is in my Top Ten All-Time. I think one more title will cement his legacy in the Top Ten.
As the MAIN GUY he has two titles and two Finals MVP's. Jerry West has ONE TITLE when Wilt owned the middle. The Big O has ONE TITLE playing second fiddle to Kareem. Outside of Jordan and Magic, Kobe is right up there.
I have a TOP SIX all time: MJ and Magic in the backcourt, the Big Three centers of Wilt, Russell, and Kareem, and then Bird at forward.
For the rest of the top ten you can pick between Shaq, West, Robertson, Duncan, Hakeem, LeBron, and Kobe. Kobe matches up with all those guys. LeBron might have more pure talent but LBJ still needs several great seasons to pass Kobe's entire body of work. Shaq had it all but his prime didn't seem long enough. You can't go wrong with TD either.
I could see arguments for Kobe being in the Top Ten and I can see reasons why he wouldn't be up there.
If I am going to take four more guys to put in the Top Ten all-time I would go with Shaq (the fourth best center in history), the Big O, Kobe, and I actually have LeBron in there now. He is in the peak of his extended prime (I think he can be in his prime for another 5 or six years based on his power, passing, and now his low post game. I think he is a BEAST). LeBron is now tied with West in terms of titles and I would like to see him get some more to move farther past Jerry West, but I think he has done it all basically capped off (so far) by his sublime run from last year's Finals disappointment to this year's hat trick (MVP, title, Olympic gold).
... if Kobe isn't top 10 then he is definitely Top 15 or so which would still put him in INCREDIBLE company. Kobe has pretty much done everything. 5 titles, 2 Finals MVP's, one regular season MVP, 35 points per game in a season, and an 81 point game. Two Olympic golds too.
Kobe has dominated the Y2K era winning titles in 2000, 2001, and 2002, losing in the 2004 Finals, losing in 2008, and coming back to win titles in 2009, and 2010. How many superstars have gone on runs like that? I think Russell, Magic, and Mike are the only other guys up there.
If Kobe can have a great regular season, be an MVP candidate (again) and then help the Lakers win another title by going through Durant and the Thunder and then LeBron and the Heat then I think that he will DEFINITELY be in the Top Ten.
I dont care if were talking about currently or of all-time, There are not ten players I will take over Kobe in the history of the game or right now. Even if he doesnt win it all this group he is still a top ten player, some of you are failing to realize its not about how much talent you have, its about chemistry.
You have two stars coming from teams where they were the star to a team with a true legend. It will take sometime, maybe even a season to figure out how to play together. The Heat had a great talent but it took two seasons, because of chemistry. This doesnt make or break Kobe, he can only move up in history with another title if not, he still is a ten. And yes we know he is on the decline, not the same as he use to be, but I still cant think of 10 better players right now.
I think it took the Heat two years to win it all because the pieces don't fit that well. LeBron and Wade are both scoring wings with mediocre jumpers that dominate the ball. Bosh is a finesse power forward who is forced to play center. They didn't have Shane Battier last year either, and Mike Miller and Haslem were banged up.
This current Lakers team has pieces that fit: Nash as the prototype point guard, Kobe is on the short-list of best ever shooting guards in NBA history, Dwight Howard is a legit super star center who mans the middle, and Pau is a versatile 7 footer who can score, board, pass, and block shots, and play in either the high post or low post.
They also have some solid role players who can contribute some. Guys such as Ron Artest, Antawn Jamison, Steve Blake, Jodie Meeks, and Jordan Hill. When rotations get shortened in the playoffs I will take the Lakers 9 man rotation over anyone's. They could use another 7 footer off the bench but that is about it.
I think Kobe is a top 10 player regardless. I personally dont think he is in the Jordan-Magic-Russell category or even in Bird Abdul Jabbar Shaq Chamberlain i think hes firmly in the Olajuwon Duncan category which isnt bad at all its really nice. I think Kobe is anywhere between 8 and 10 in my mind. Kobe has great longevity and accolades but the problem with Kobe in my mind is that i never felt he was dominant he was never in my mind the undisputed best player in the league although i must give him credit for being in the discussion for 8-9 years.
The other players don't count because Kobe has to do it all himself...at least that's what you are saying. Let's pretend that Meta has a meltdown, or Pau doesn't perform to his expectations, or the bench doesn't perform like it should. Wait, all of those things have happened before and they all can derail the team from the championship.
Kobe's drive can't be questioned, but Howard is extremely wishy-washy and who knows how he handles being the Robin to Kobe's Batman.
If Kobe loses in the finals for the first time to Lebron, Dwayne and Bosh then it must all be on him. I can't agree less.
Man if anyone can be compared to Jordan then that is Kobe...but i understand..you are Lebron fan right?? :) What does 5 fingers say 2 the face?? :)
I think Kobe is a great player but the 5 ring argument is the most ignorant argument you could use. Using that argument Sam Jones is a top 5 player of all time because he has 10 rings and was arguably the celtics 2nd best player. Sam Jones couldve won some finals MVPs as well given that he averaged 20+ppg in the playoffs 7 straight years including 5 straight with 23+ppg and highs of 28.6ppg and 26.7ppg
There's so muh worng with this thread I don't even know where to begin.
First off Robert Horry has 7 rings, not 8.
Second, Karl Malone doesn't have a ring because he wasn't talented(2nd greatest PF of all time), it's because he choked in big moments when it mattered, plain and simple, doesn't take anything away from him as a top 8-12 player, but it's just the truth.
Third there's a huge difference between a 1996 John Stockton and a 2012 Nash, Stockton was still 33 years old and was putting 15 and 11, and was his defense was All-NBA defender. Nash is now 38 and has always been a defensive liability. He's still a top 6 PG, but comparing his to a mid 90s Stockton is innaccurate.
Fourth if you think Dwight belongs in even the same class as Hakeem you need to be banned from talking basketball. Hakeem would eat Dwight for breakfast, no disrespect to Dwight but Hakeem is indsiputbaly the most skilled big man of all time, and Hakeem was also an All-NBA defender as is Dwight, and was DPOY during the '93 and '94 seasons. It is so disrespectfull to compare him to Dwight. Dwight would be a guy that sneaks into two or three All-Star games in the 90s but nothing more, he'd be an athletic and slightly more skilled Dikembe Mutombo, nothing more.
he'll be at the very least a mention as a top 10 ... maybe not top 5 of all time but he'll be around that 8-10 range type guy ... 5 rings ! and will pass MJ on the all time scoring list + he has a chance to add a 6th ring to match MJ ? and some how he doesn't crack top 10 is stupid
His wife feels the same.