[valentine]

 They are both only 22 years of Age with promising future (Ibaka is probably 28) seeing how things are working out they can’t keep both . Play Gm who would you keep and why? I started our saying Harden for sure but Serge is showing a lot from defense to a nice smooth looking J, Tuff one 

[omphalosParticipant]

I think because you’ve already got a tough interior defender with Perkins, Ibaka is more expendable, Collison would be a decent temporary solution and they’d be able to find a shot-blocking PF a lot easier than a replacement for Harden.

Paradox is right though, the first thing they have to do is win a championship before either is up for extension/re-signing, and use past success as an incentive to take a paycut so they can keep both. You can’t expect guys to take a huge drop in their earning potential during their peak years off nothing more than the chance for a championship which might never materialise.

Harden in particular could get close to max money on another team with his next deal, so it’s championship or bust for the Thunder front office.

[thparadoxParticipant]

 

If you have to choose one, you go with Harden.

But I think the first step is trying to convince them to take a paycut for the pursuit of multiple championships.

[xavier328Participant]

I amit its a really hard choice!

[So raspyParticipant]

Serge is more crucial to the team as their best big, where as Harden is the third best perimeter player.

[bobbybParticipant]

wow great question,  i dont see why they couldnt take less( they would still be getting raises anyways!!)

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Exactly what SportsNinja said.  Harden is the better player but Ibaka is harder to find.

A swingman that can dribble and score are easy to replace (Not saying Harden isn’t good, I’m a HUGE fan of his) but it is more difficult to find a 22 year old, 6’10 – 6’11, defensive monster with this kind of work ethic and hard working mentality.  Plus, you can’t teach his combination of size, athleticism, and length.

As I’ve said before, if James Harden had his own team, he would have averaged 22-24 PPG this season.

[SportsNinjaParticipant]

I think Harden is the better player, but I think Ibaka is the rarer player. He won’t be easy to replace- the best shot blocker and not an offensive liability. While Harden won’t be easy either, I think there are a lot of guys in the league that can excel as a 6th man. Harden has a nice blend of D, drive ability, and jump shot though and they may be able to replace him with two bench players.

[HotSnotParticipant]

I have no clue how they plan to do it but Sam Presti has already been on record this past season as saying that OKC will sign and keep both Ibaka And Harden in addition to Durant and Westbrook. Obviously this means OKC will have to be a tax payer and with Bird Rights they are allowed to sign both… But its doubtful OKC carrries 3 max contracts and Ibaka’s hefty pay raise…. and Perkins at 8-9 mil per.

I think the question should really be who do you keep… Westbrook or Harden? Durant aint going no where. Ibaka…ditto… and he won’t make max money when he resigns. Bigmen like Ibaka are irreplaceable. Perkins should be expendable but he’s serviceable. So there’s 2 giant contracts left. Westbrooks and soon to be Hardens max. If OKC wins the championship, maybe OKC swallows the pill and pays the tax. If they can’t/won’t pay the tax then I’d keep Harden and trade Westbrook for assets… and there would be alot of assets for Westbrook.

However trading Harden or Westbrook requires a team under the cap with attractive draft picks, because lets face it… the point of trading Westbrook or Harden is to stay under the cap, not take back equal salary…

I think Harden can play the PG spot…yep I said it!… and if we’re really honest with ourselves here, Harden has more long term value. Westbrook will find it hard to maintain his level of athleticsm longterm… and thats a huge part of his game. He’s already pushing the limits of what he can squeeze out of his body athletically at 6ft1 and the longer you stay at that level the more your body breaks down. Westbrook is also pretty wreckless (which I love to see), but its more likely he suffers some pretty big injuries. Harden has an old school game that should allow his body to withstand the test of time. When you factor in longevity Harden is the choice. In addition, Westbrooks trade value will never be higher then it is right now. Remember last post season when he “chucked” his team out of the playoffs? People were talking trade then. This season and playoffs he’s hitting more shots and he’s simplified his game.

PS what about Maynor? Is he still in OKC’s plans?

[FastAndFuriousParticipant]

Westbrook isn’t going anywhere you’d better believe me on that one.

[SportsNinjaParticipant]

On a sidenote Harden is a PERFECT sidekick. Think about pairing him with any superstar that plays a diff position than him, and they all fit right? It’s like Pippen, he could have played with anybody, on any team, no matter how it was set up. There aren’t a lot of players that have the impact Harden does that you can say that about. I think MKG might be that kind of guy too.

 

[HotSnotParticipant]

Obviously I’d like to see OKC’s team stay together for as long as possible, but difficult choices will be made.  It was somwhat shocking when Presti pulled the trigger on trading Jeff Green last year don’t you think?  Green had been drafted with Durant and they were like brothers in OKC.  Business is business though.  If a choice needs to be made, factoring in all available information… Westbrook would be the one to go, unfortunately.  I guess we’ll see whos right in due course. 

[SportsNinjaParticipant]

I thought that was a brilliant trade, didn’t you? Their one weakness was defensive strength at the 5. Perkins was the perfect fit, he was so perfect, before the trade I think most people would have said "if the Thunder could get a guy like Perkins they would be great" and then they got him. . .for Jeff Green an easy to replace tweener! A guy with talent, but didn’t quite fit IMO. 

I think trading Green for a guy that fits seamlessly into your rotation, especially considering Ibaka, is hard to compare to trading Westbrook.

[jerb2011Participant]

 Last month in the Daily Oklahoman, GM Sam Presti has been restructuring contracts and putting back money to be able to keep James Harden, serge Ibaka, and possibly Eric Maynor

[HotSnotParticipant]

Agreed, It was a good trade, but it wasn’t as good as the one that fell apart for Tyson Chandler. 

[FastAndFuriousParticipant]

Let’s take a look at something:

Russell Westbrook

08-09

15.3 PPG, 5.3 APG, 4.9 RPG, 3.3 TO’s

Thunder’s Record 23-59

 

09-10

16.1 PPG, 8.0 APG, 4.8 RPG, 3.3 TO’s

Thunder’s Record 50-32, Playoff Record 2-4 Lost 1st round to the Lakers.

 

10-11

21.9 PPG, 8.2 APG, 4.6 RPG, 3.9 TO’s

Thunder’s Record 55-27 Playoff Record 9-8(4-1 Nuggets, 4-3 Grizzlies, 1-4 Mavericks) Loss Semi’s to Dallas

 

11-12

23.6 PPG, 5.5 APG, 4.6 RPG, 3.6 TO’s

Thunder’s Record 47-19(Had they played 82 games obviously would have passed 55 wins)

Current Playoff Record 8-1(4-0 Mavericks, 4-1 Lakers)

Now let’s add in Westbrook’s post season stat’s.

09-10

20.5 PPG, 6.0 APG, 6.0 RPG, 2.3 TO’s

10-11

23.8 PPG, 6.4 APG, 5.3 RPG, 4.6 TO’s

11-12

24.1 PPG, 4.4 APG, 4.7 RPG, 1.6 TO’s per

Respect to Durant,Harden,Ibaka,Perkins,and the rest of the Thunder, but Westbrook has improved drastically every year, and it shows in his individual success, and his teams regualr season success and post season success.

Westbrook isn’t going anywhere believe that.

[SportsNinjaParticipant]

Wilcox, Smith and DeVon Hardin right? Yeah I’d take Chandler over Perkins and Green is better than the three they were going to give up. I bet that Dr got fired. . .

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

They have to pay them both.  FOUR GUYS then just fit in D Leaguers around them if you have to.  They will still get it done.  

They have a great thing going and could win a lot of titles with that group.  Put rock bottom contract guys around them like San Antonio does.  Even if they have to amnesty Kendrick Perkins or Nick Collison to get it done.  Or trade Kendrick Perkins for an expiring contract or two.  Trade Cook for cash and a cheaper guard. 

Top four guys win titles.  Then if you fill in some decent parts around them you can contend every year. 

Cook, Sefolosha, and Collison each make over 3 million a year.  They are better off trying to move those guys for cash and a pick, or an expiring contract than gamble on losing Harden or Ibaka.  Those 3 are all solid players, but they are replaceable.  They could groom Cole Aldrich into that backup big man role (he makes a little over $2 million a year but he can also play center).  Then they could get a younger shooter to replace Cook. 

Here is a trade that saves the Thunder a bit of money and replaces guys on 2, 2, and 3 year contracts for 3 guys on 2 year deals. 

Thunder trades Daequan Cook, Thabo Sefolosha, and Eric Maynor to the Jazz for Raja Bell, Earl Watson, and Demarre Carroll.  The Thunder lose 3 solid role players but save about $2.5 million dollars and save one year on one of the contracts.  Bell can provide some outside shooting and smarts.  Watson is a decent backup who could replace Maynor as well as Derek Fisher (who might ask for too much money, or might be totally washed up by June).  The Thunder gets Demarre Carroll who I like as a hard-nosed, high motor energy guy off the bench.  He can be their new Sefolosha.  I really like his contract too since he only made $537,438 this year.  Cook for Bell is a bad trade off, but I like the potential of Carroll with the Thunder.  

If they want to save some more money they could trade their late first round pick and a future 2nd rounder to the Blazers for their 2nd round picks and cash.  … hope that Will Barton falls in the draft and take him as their future sixth man (i.e., 3rd wing player behind Durant and Harden), and then take the best big man available, or a 3 point shooter.  Robbie Hummel would be ok as a shooter and a tough forward.

K Perk would still have a bad contract with Collison’s being slightly too high.  But Collison does a lot of the bench and K Perk is perfect in his role.  Solid centers are expensive anyway so they might not be better off if they had to sign someone else. 

If the Thunder so sign both Ibaka and Harden then they will have to get creative with their supporting roster but it can be done.  Getting guys to fill out the end of the bench is a lot easier then getting four young stars who fit perfectly together.

Good scenario:

Starters:

PG: Russell Westbrook

SG: James Harden

SF:  Kevin Durant

PF:   Serge Ibaka

C:     Kendrick Perkins

Bench:

PG:  Earl Watson, Reggie Jackson

SG:  Will Barton, Raja Bell

SF:  Demarre Carroll, Robbie Hummel

PF:  Nick Collison

C:  Nazr Muhammed, Cole Adrich

[NashyMingParticipant]

They are both not free agent (not even restricted), so the Thunder can keep both if the owner is willing to spend.  End of story.

[HotSnotParticipant]

I’m aware of Westbrooks stats.  You didn’t include FG% in those numbers… and prior to this season, Westbrooks efficiency was not that good…. and even this year its not overly remarkable either. 

08-09 he shot 39.8% fg for 15.3 ppg on 13.4 shots.  09-10 he shot 41.8% for 16.1 ppg on 14.2 shots.  10-11 he had a better FG% 44.2 but still only had 21.9ppg on 17 shots… this season, his best yet, 45.7% from the field but still only 23.6ppg on 19..2 shots.  Westbrook is supposed to be a PG who racks up 10 assist games not 5.5.  He should pick and choose his spots.  Not hoist up 20 shots…  

This year Harden shot 49.1% and put up 16.8 pgg on only 10.2 shots… which is awesome.  He did this in only 31 mins per game. Could Harden shoot more?  probably… but not if Westbrook is taking those shots.

Also as a starting PG, with one of the most lethal scorers in the NBA at his side, Westbrooks assists leave much to be desired.  Westbrook is not a floor general… he’s a SG.  Westbrooks turnovers in this years playoffs are 1.6 because Harden has been the play maker.  Like SportsNinja said, Harden is the ultimate sidekick and he makes teammates better.  Westbrook does not…. this is why many posters on this site were suggesting Westbrook be traded the last 2 playoffs….prior to this one that is. 

Now after all that, do I think Westbrook should be traded?  Absolutely not.  Ideally you keep this team together.  However, if difficult choices need to be made, the prudent decision is to keep Durant, Ibaka and Harden.  Westbrook is the expendable part.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

They have four young stars.  Keep those guys on board by whatever means necessary.  Then you have Kendrick Perkins who is probably overpaid but you need someone at center anyway so he stays.  Everyone else is disposable.  Fill in the pieces every year like the Spurs did this year.  Cook, Collison, and Sefolosha are expendable and each of those players makes over $3 million a year.  Cole Aldrich makes just over $2 million a year.  If the Thunder move anyone those 4 guys should be at the top of the list.  … trade each one for a cheaper player and a 2nd round pick or two.  Save a bit of money that way, or get expiring contracts in exchange.

Teams only play 8 or 9 guys in the playoffs.  The Thunder have the Big Four plus Perkins.  So all you need are 3 or 4 guys.  You just hope that the draft picks like Reggie Jackson turn into solid role players. 

From now on, the Thunder has to get good at signing guys at $1-$1.5 million a year.  And make great use of those late draft picks.

[mosdefParticipant]

Im taking Harden. I actually think Harden is better then Westbrook cuz Westbrook tends to just barrel into the lane while Harden sets up the play better.

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

Harden is the call if it comes to Ibaka or him, but it won’t.  They’ll amnesty Perkins if they can’t restructure other guys, which leaves enough space for both.  I assume no one is crazy enough to take Perk over Ibaka or Harden?

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

Harden is a special talent… he can create offense for other players, he’s a great defensive threat and a great teammate accepting 6th man role whereas he should be a starter in 90% of the other nba franchises.

Ibaka is a great inside defense and energy guy but he can be replace easier than harden. Some players as Larry Sanders could become the same kind of player with a little work from the thunder coaching staff for example. Cole aldrich with a little work and some playing time should develop into a nice defensive player inside.

With the 28th pick this year OKC could decide to draft furkan Aldemir (a special talent in rebound and post D) and let him 1 year in europe to keep on growing as a player…

Omer asik, marcus camby are also FA this summer, and next summer they could sign taj gibson, splitter, dalembert, okafor, 

http://www.hoopsworld.com/oklahoma-city-thunder-team-salary

They could also try to cut some deals (lazar hayward, aldrich, not extend maynor or sefolosha) in order to extend both (not impossible)…

[joecheck88Participant]

 Said it right. Harden isn’t just a scoring sixth man. He is a legit second option on good teams or a first option on a mediocre team. He just happens to be a third option on a great team. Ibaka, I love him but these athletic shot blocking bigs are around. Yes he hits a few jumpshots and is awesome but you can have a Taj Gibson, Ekpe Udoh, Larry Sanders, or Brandon Wright do some of the same things and still be effective because you have your 3 main guys. And those guys are huge downgrades from Ibaka but they will provide at least the same energy and defense. And that’s theist important part of Ibaka’s game to that team. 

[Author]

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