I get tired of fanballs on here who argue stuff that is not even said?-
Let's say you bring up a player or team that they like. They argue with you and all you are doing is stating the truth. I am Lakers and Hornets fans but I am also a basketball fan. I talk bad about my team when they lose or do stupid stuff. If they get calls they should not I will be honest and say hey they gotten some calls that went their way. I can be objective about team and not get upset about a person or team that does not even know I exist. I remember have a argument about Jordan Farmar because they picked up Fisher and said how he was not the answer to Lakers point guard needs and they need to get Bibby. I am glad we got Fisher because Farmar is not a starter and is limited as a backup. Dude played ball with Farmar and took offense and started cussing me like he wanted to fight and all i was doing was saying the truth. Farmar almost made me look wrong in how well he played behind Fisher but it would seem like I thought that was his peak. He does not look good in the Lakers offense. He is not a good playmaker. Brown will take his minute next season because he can not defend. The happened at my last job but on chat I have some dude defend Roy like they were best friends or something because I compare Harden to Roy. Is it my fault they have similarities. That is all i was saying. I even put on there that I saw Harden more like Redd but they did not stop this fanboy from making claims against Harden. As basketball people who are fans and can play the game, you should be able to look at a person skill set and raw abilities and make legit comparison and also sometimes tell that is give more time a player will put up number based on what they can do have if they have the IQ and athleticism to pull it off. Also you have to factor in desire. I had an argument with someone because I loosely said Randolph was in the KG mold. Dude went bonkers. Fanboys do not read what you say they see things you never said. I hate that.
You must be talking about gregoden08.
I feel you....like the Cleveland-NY topic. Idiots like CavsDawg.....
Im done arguing with "Fans" before Basketball people
Yeah i feel ya....that happens alot
Yeah how do you know. I can not stand that I like to argue with people I can learn stuff from because they can bring up stuff I may lack about someone. I analyze and put to much into this game to waste time arguing with fan boys man. There are some players that impress me. I am rarely wrong about a player but it happens. I don't get caught up in hype. You have some people dissing players that did not get enough time to show their worth. I remember a few days ago the one about Wall being the next Critterton and Critterton does not suck. He has not gotten minutes and has been solid in limited minutes. If at worse Wall could be was Critterton, that is not an insult. I am not one of those stats guy but I do tend to know my stats. There are people that can put up numbers in a certain style and look good but they have limited skills so there overall value is not that good and then you have guys like let's say Odom who can do everything and is versatile but his number do not say how much he can help a team. His skill set open up the floor for other teammates. His only problems is his lack of focus and his inconsistence. You have some people who would like Lee over Odom based on numbers when Lee is no where on Odom's level of skill and overall production game wise.
You like Odom over Lee? That's a tough one. Odom is clearly more versatile and clearly is more talented, but Lee's production was great last year. Didn't he lead the league in double doubles. I don't trust Odom come playoff time. Not sure which Odom is going to show up. Anyhow, regarding the B-Roy/Harden conversation, I'll be honest, I am a little bit of a Portland fan boy. Sorry, I live in Portland and I love the Blazers, but even if I wasn't a Portland fan I'm not so sure I think Harden could be as good as Roy. Though, I do see the comparisons. I'm just not sure if Harden can become a Roy like player. Maybe I'm wrong though. Was wrong about Rose.
you can't let it get to ya sir. some are very passionate about certain teams. people argue to argue. there are those out there that take it too seriously and blow a gasket.
you are right about farmar.
Well doesn't this stuff apply to all sports? Of course fans would do that.
Yea i feel you man the same situation happen to me....
Because i stated Dirk creates more match-up problems than Roy
But yea i just made my point and let buddy say whatever he had to say
people are gonna disagree over stuff, but you just gotta keep it respectful. as far as Harden / Roy comparisons, they have some similarities, but I don't think they are all that alike. I think one of the reasons so many people compare them is because they came from similar situations. They are well rounded players who did'nt get as much national recognition playing on the west coast. Both were considered guys who might contribute right away, but have limited upside coming out. Because of how succesful Roy has been, people want to compare Harden to him. But if you look at the way they play, they have some differences. Harden is more of smooth let the game come to him type. He can shoot and pass, but does'nt force the issue as much. He also does'nt have great blow by you seed or explosion around the basket when he is in traffic going off the dribble. Roy on the other hand is more aggressive off the dribble. He can get by defenders and still have the ability to elevate and finish in traffic. Roy is more of a franchise palyer who can create while I believe that Harden will be more of a role player playing with other great talent.
My opinion on all this..I would rather have Lee over Odom anyday. I also like Hardens' game. I think he will certainly be a solid pro and he went to the perfect team. I expect the Thunder to have excellent team chemistry. I see a lot of similarities between Roy & Harden. Harden just doesn't have quite as many crafty skills that Roy has. Plus Harden will never be the #1 option meanwhile Roy is the main man on that Portland team.
The man problem is some people are so biased towards certain players/teams that they don't keep it real when arguing.
you have to understand that less although good is a product of his system..dantonis system aalwasy inflates stats..lee is not a go too scorer like he may seem to be some games..he has not real half court game..his game is mostly hustle...yes im a lakers fan but odom can do so much more than lee and he does it in limited minute..im pretty sure if odom was in ny he woul average a double double no problem while also averaging near 20 or 20 points a game....sheltwon i feel u on the fanboys also because there are some( not all ) that as soon as you tell them lebron is leaning more towars the cavs then the knicks they get very offended....i can not agree with you on farmer yet though because of the fatc he always looks over his shoulder with fisher because phil is gonna stick with him no matter how bad he plays( im sure you were yelling just like me during the playoffs with the way fisher was playing) its kinda hard for farmer to be consitant when he doesnt get consitant min..theres plenty of times when he plays well and gets taken out or makes one or 2 mistakes and is taken out...i do like brown alot but i cant hand everything to him off of one playoffs..if he can keep it up for the whole upcomming season then ill be read but ive seen and put hope into too many other guards.(smuch,sasha) who looked very good to only dissapoint the next year..to be honest i think as long as they keep brown and farmar it doesnt really matter..theres nothing wrong with a 2 headed point guard
Lee is the new thing right now, but I would go with Odom. Lee showed a much improved offensive game, but Odom just brings so much more to the table. A pf who defends multiple positions, rebounds, and can push it up the court himself. Also, he probably shot the three ball better last year then I ever remember him shooting it before.
As for Farmar, I'll admit that I might be a little biased being a UCLA/Laker fan, but it is way too early to give up on him as a possible starter. His biggest weakness is that he is an aggressive offensive player. If he gets inconsistent minutes and gets pulled the second he makes a mistake or misses a couple shots, it is gonna be hard for him to play consistently. I think defense is the only thing Brown has on Farmar, and farmar is a better shooter, ball handler, and better at creating offense. Check out how well he played in that Houston game when Fisher was suspended for laying out Scola.
I am not even a Harden fan and if you read my post i did say i liken him more to Michael Redd and I have said that in the past and what my argument was is that they have some strong similarities in how the create shots and play with few differences but with Harden being so young it is possible that he could play catch up. Roy came in as 22 or 23 finished product. Harden is 19 and has an old man game. Roy was not the man his first year but he showed potential and he tried to be a leader. Second year he was running it and this year he became a star. Harden may not see that because his situation is different but they do have similiar games and similiar situations coming in. Also for all those that on Lee's production, are you saying that Odom would not put better numbers up playing for Mike D. Odom would look like Amare playing for Mike D. Odom can defend, Lee cant. Odom can rebound which Lee can do. Odom can pass, not too sure about with Lee. Odom can put the ball on the floor, now one of Lee's strong suits. I do understand where yall are coming from that Lee is probably the better power forward because here is no way he is the better player. That is a legit argument but the thing is Lee is more a role player that was solid in that offense. Odom is a all purpose type player that can star sometimes and sometimes disappears. He showed in these playoffs that he could handle his business. I would lover to be a GM making trades with some of you guys. It would be like with Memphis giving up Gasol for Kwame lol.
Farmar has peaked in the Lakers offense and style. He needs to get trade to fulfill everything you said. The Lakers offense does not need someone like Farmar and with Fisher lacking on D because of his age you need someone to defend and Brown is decent enough offensively to get more minutes as Fishers backup but neither he nor Farmar is the answer at the starting position for point guard. Brown could work some with all the passers that the Lakers have though. His game is shaping up well. He can finish on cuts and make open jump shots when top players are doubled. Farmar who is supposed to be a better shooter can no do this consistently. Farmar does not play well as a 4th option and Brown can. Farmar may be a better player on another team as 2nd or 3rd option and that is why sometimes he did well off the bench when he could be the main scoring but with Odom playing more bench time and Gasol getting minutes with the second unit, he doesnt fit. I do believe he has skills but he may never display them in LA. I wanted him to do well. Walton make leaps in his game since he was drafted and Farmar has not.
You can't make fun of somebody for saying they would rather have David Lee over Odom. Saying he is just the product of the system is an ignorant statement. I think Lee has higher IQ and wants to win more. Lee does get more playing time but the difference is only 5mins a game. Lee averages more points & rebounds. Not to mention Lee shoots a higher field goal % and is a much better free throw shooter. If I had to choose I am taking Lee. By the way, you wouldn't want me to be a GM. Leading the league in double doubles is a pretty big accomplishment. Odom wouldn't put up the same #s if he played for the Knicks.
To Josh Huestis--- I feel like Farmar has skills but as guy that can not guard big point guards are guard quick point guards. Lakers offense do not really need a true point guard. Fisher is not a true point guard. His game is that of a combo but he plays smart and make shots. Farmar just does not play under control even when he is playing well. Phil Jackson has faith in Fisher game and it was to good reason because Fisher plays smart and under control and tends to make plays. Farmar does not make plays. He score points which is good but for a team with all the scorer Lakers have, they need defense and play makers. Luke Walton gets times because he can make plays because a lot of people do not feel like he earned his pay check but his play making skills or key for some line ups and give the Lakers versatility. Also can you believe people Lee over Odom. I am not trying to be rude but does everyone watch basketball. I dont want people to get me wrong I like Lee and I was one of the ones that knew that he would be good and wondered why Knicks fans booed. He is a solid athletic player who hustles and can finish and rebound. There is no way I trade him for Odom ever. There is not fanboy in me because i tend to be hard on my own teams and in truth I like ever team in the NBA that is making nice moves. I have dreams of being an NBA GM so teams that have smart GM's or anything that let's me know they know basketball I like that team. I love what the Thunder are doing. Sam Presti is the man. I loved Durant at Texas and I am a fan on him now and I loved how he grew as a player.
gatorheels are you putting words in my mouth or did i say that he was a product of the system. I may have implied that his number being so high were a product of the system because I kept track of him before Mike D got there and I also know the limits to his game. Also Odom at one point last year when Bynum went down was averaging a double double so how could he not do that playing for the Knicks. That does not make sense man. I am sorry if I upset you. I am trying so hard to understand the logic of that from a skill point. Lee plays harder at time I give you that but he is still limited to what he can do and no matter how hard he plays dude is not a good defender. His game is limited at the power forward and center position. Those are the facts. Ask some people about Lee's scouting report. He gets points off of hustle and finishing. His low post game is not that good. He can not make 15 footers at a good clip. He is good for what he can do but that is all. With me this is all about basketball love too many players to put someone over the other because I like them more. I am honestly trying to see what you guy see that like Lee more than Odom. One of my friends is a big New York fan and I will ask him if he would take Lee over Odom. I am doing this right now.
I am sorry for coming off arrogant and making fun of people that like Lee more. Everyone has their own opinion. I just wish I understand yall thinking.
Shelwon...Ha no I'm not upset. I know you didn't say that Lee was a product of his system but somebody else did. If I had to pick a player to build a team around I would choose Lee for the reasons I stated above. I've seen Lee play a ton and have watched him in person several times. Odom is a good player too but I don't think he would lead the league in double doubles if he played for the Knicks.
Odom may not ever lead the league in double doubles, but he's a lot more versatile than Lee. I like Lee, but I don't think people realize just how special "The Goods" is. He's 6' 10" & can play positions 1-4... He can defend positions 1-4. He can handle the ball (bring it up the court and annitiate the offense), pass the ball & his range goes out to the 3-PT line. He's also a very good rebounder, both offensive & defensive. Odom can be inconsistent and is not a "go to" player, but as the 3rd option on a good team... He can make that team great.
For what it's worth I would take Odom over Lee for my team due to his versatility. I agree with Tezo. Lee is a very good reboundera, intelligent and a high energy player who could play for me anyday, but Odom has the ability to help a team in a wide variety of ways and is a good team player.
i still dont agree with farmer..definatly dont think hes reached his peak just like im not a believer in brown yet..but each of us have different opnions abou tthat and this year should pove one of us right or wrong if both start to get more min and fishers decrease
Dude how would he not, he might even come close to a triple double. Honestly I have just talked to my homie who is a big Knicks fan and he said that Odom and Lee are not even in the same area code.
I hear you Josh Huestis and I would want to believe he has not peaked but even Crittenton looked more promising than Farmar when he was there for a lil bit.
Come on now....how would he not....You act like it is easy to lead the league in double doubles. Yo I understand Odom is versatile but a lot of players are versatile. If you took Odom off the Lakers last year and replaced him with Lee I still think LA would've won it all.
As for Farmar & Brown...my opinion on both of them is that they aren't good starting PGs and never will be. The Lakers better find a legit true starting PG fairly soon cuz Fisher can't play forever. I would take Crittenton over Farmar & Brown.
The triangle offense does'nt need a big time pg. Plus Kobe, Odom, and Ron will inniatiate just as much as the pg. The lakers don't have big money to spend on another player. I'm fine with Brown and farmar sharing the point. They probably out played Fisher last year in the playoffs anyways and the Lakers won.
I don't know..I agree they don't need a big time PG but I think they need somebody better than Farmar or Brown once Fisher is done. Lakers have nothing to worry about now.
the triangle doesnt need a real good pg..all it needs is a player who can handle the ball pretty much without turning it over alot..farmar and brown and good enough to do that..they dont need to score alot or get alot of assists..decent defense and hit some open shots..thats it..wit kobe ron ron paul odom and bynum im pretty sure we could bring sorry smush back and still win the title
People have to stop saying that Lee is a product of a system. Do your homework and you will see that Lee has been a double-double machine for the past 3 years. 2 seasons before D'Antoni was even in NY. Lee's numbers may have been a little boosted because he was the only true PF or C that played for the Knicks last year. He didnt have to share rebounds or put-backs with Curry or Randolph. Lee is still on his way up in the NBA. Sure Odom can bring the ball up but he also plays against PF's or SF's. Lee plays out of position and still succeeds. Odom's drive has been questioned his entire career. No one can question Lee's. Odom is a freak of nature that never reached his full potential.
lol sheltwon, i think u were referring to me going "bonkers" about the Anthony Randolph-KG comparison... if that's bonkers, you're being too sensitive... If anything, (and if I'm remembering correctly) Tezo and I might have gone bonkers in the Eric Gordon discussion, but i made a passing comment about both your comparison of EG and Brandon Roy, and of Randolph-KG... and I still think those are off...
you said it yourself in this original post, desire matters, and that's all i was pointing out about KG. I liked the Chris Bosh comparison a lot more.
i'm sure you're "rarely" wrong as you say... lol