HS Class of 2012 #1: Nerlens Noel or Shabazz Muhammad?
Just wanted to get a gauge here of what people thought in accordance to the debate for #1 player in the 2012 HS Class. Most every site I have seen either have Noel or Muhammad at the top spot. Thinking that right now Nerlens is ranked #1 by more think ESPN, Scout, Chad Ford, 24/7 and the forbidden site known as Kraft Excess. Meanwhile, Rivals and this site seem to believe that Shabazz Muhammad is the #1 player in 2012. My question is:
Who do you think is #1 in the 2012 HS class, Nerlens Noel, Shabazz Muhammad or someone else?
My theory is that Shabazz Muhammad is head and shoulders above anyone in this class. Nerlens Noel could be a very solid defensive big, but he is a twig with an incredibly limited offensive skill set. I do not see any of the aggression that made Anthony Davis stand out, nor the same never say die attitude. If I see that in anyone, it is Shabazz.
I know that Shabazz is not perfect, he needs to work on his right hand and he might be more of a small 3 to some than a 2 (though his near 7 foot wing span makes that reasonable). Nonetheless, I am flat out more impressed with him as a prospect and in my mind, he looks like the better player of the two down the road. Make no mistake, Nerlens is a center prospect, but he is one without the physical ability that makes a Greg Oden or Andre Drummond so appealing. While this might be better on his knees, it makes it difficult to defend people with more girth, which he will see as a 5 down the line.
To me, Nerlens is much closer to Marcus Camby than even Anthony Davis. This is a good thing, as Marcus was a fantastic defensive player and became a solid NBA center. But, his limited offensive ability kept him from really being great, or an All-Star. Shabazz seems like a possible All-Star down the line to me, not to mention a possible #1 scoring option. His athleticism and strength is incredibly high level. Shabazz seems competitive and active well beyond Nerlens, who I believe was said to stand out in these areas. I seriously have not seen it, plus have heard he struggled to display these qualities this past year at Tilton.
Dave Telep is a recruiting analyst I definitely respect, but I am just surprised he is as high as he is on Noel as compared to Muhammad. I know how important big men are and having a defensive anchor can do huge things. Still, there are more qualities to a basketball player that I am unsure Nerlens fits in the long term. He seems like a good passer and is not a lost cause on that end, but he is definitely a major work in progress. I am usually a proponent for choosing size, but I think Shabazz Muhammad over Nerlens Noel definitely seems fairly clear cut. My final thinking is, what do you expect both to be in the long term? To me, I have a really hard time seeing Nerlens Noel doing more for a team than Shabazz Muhammad. It might not be that clear cut, but it just surprises me that quite a few people seem to have higher hopes for Nerlens Noel as compared to Shabazz Muhammad.
Shabazz should definitely be number one. I'm don't even think Noel should be number two at this point. If you're going by draft prospects then yeah he should be up there, but in terms of how good they are now I don't think he's that great.
I live in Vegas and have watched Bazz play a lot. I think he's clearly the better basketball player right now.
But as far as rankings go, it will always go to the bigman unless that wing/guard is supposed to be THAT good. Which I don't believe Bazz is.
The best player right now and likely in the future is Shabazz , Nerlens and Steven Adams are 2a and 2b. After that I think there is a bit of a drop off in 2012.
Shabbazz i also find Head and Shoulders above the rest of the class. I like Nerlens Noel but i dont think hes even #2 in his class. I havent seen much of him but id definately consider Steven Adams over Noel as well. Im not sure why Adams isnt talked about that much he really good potential and outplayed Noel in their head to head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpnqLsaFRA8
Indeed. As far as the college rankings go, Noel is clearly the better prospect, as big men who dominate defensively tend to experience more success in the NCAA game than the talented wing prototype. However, in viewing their NBA prospects, I would definitely put Mr. Muhammad above Mr. Noel.
What I never understood is how Noel went from #3 or #4 in c/o 2013 class to #1 in the c/o 2012...in my opinion Muhammad is in his own class.
Just fyi , They rank players on who they think will have the biggest impact in college the fastest
I'd give Shabazz the slight edge over Noel because he is a more complete player.
Shabazz by far bc of his competitiveness and willingness to compete...I'm definitely not sold on Nerel
@Onions: Care to give examples of people who were, per se, "THAT good"? Because Kevin Durant was not ranked above Greg Oden out of HS, not to mention going into the draft. Remember also, Greg Oden had about 40 pounds of muscle and a much better (yes, much better) offensive game than Nerlens Noel. Sure, Shabazz is not Kevin Durant, but Nerlens is no Greg or even Anthony Davis. You have LeBron James ranked above everyone, Dwight Howard was also a near unanimous #1. Since than, not a lot of big guys past Greg who merited #1 status. Even Andre Drummond was having a tough time fighting off Shabazz and I have the hardest time seeing how Nerlens Noel is better. Know that Andre definitely got the best of him on the HS level.
@M-Eazy: I kind of feel you, as it did not seem to me that he was better than Shabazz. Still, he is, get this: 6 MONTHS YOUNGER! OMG! HE HAS SO MUCH POTENTIAL! (Sarcasm, joking tone. Just kind of how I think people look at things to an extent). Yes, Nerlens is a tad younger, can block shots and is nearly the same height/weight of a guy who just killed college basketball this year. I know Dave Telep liked Nerlens at 2 I believe after Jabari Parker, who many believe is a better prospect than Shabazz Muhammad. Throw in that this class is indeed weak and many probably feel that as Onions pointed out "Shabazz is good, but not THAT good", you have Nerlens at #1 in this class looking for a star. Problem is, I think Shabazz does indeed have more potential to be that than Noel.
@Shanetaylor: Well, at least two of those sites are NBA projections. Not to mention, I cite the Kevin Durant/Greg Oden example. Greg was a consensus All-American and I believe Big 10 POY, not to mention getting to the championship game. Still, even I, the die hard Greg Oden supporter, can admit that Kevin Durant had a better single individual college season. I think the NBA and the next level is definitely taken into account. To me, it should be about who the best player is down the line, not just at the next stop. It is difficult to predict, but when you look back at your HS rankings, I think you love seeing NBA success going along with the guys at the top. Greg had his injuries, but if a guy broke things down and liked Kevin Durant over Greg right out of HS, props to him.
what's up isaiah austin??? how good can he be? i don't know much about the dude but he looks like he got some potential, specially physically...
btw from what i've seen i think bazz should also be #1.
Shabazz is head and shoulders above everyone else in his class right now.
I see the big man arguement the other way around actually in this case.
Yeah big men are important no doubt but Shabazz will be able to take over games and carry his team because he'll have the ball more and has a ton of offensive talent. Im not knocking Nerls, but Shabazz' gots to be #1.
put Nerlens Noel on the map as far as a prospect this year... This is the only reason I can see him above The Bazz... Nerlens isn't Anthony Davis, someone who I think take the game of basketball serious... Ant is also honest as well something that I don't see in Noel... Not to mention further along offensively... Noel is a shot blocker while Anthony Davis is a defensive presence... I see Nerlens getting into foul trouble too often next year to have as big of an impact as Anthony did... Remember Anthony isn't a dumb kid...
2nd point... Bazz is going to be a great player... IDK what yall mean when yall say he isn't on KD's level?? I'm confused... Dude can flat out score and is competitve just like him... I see him as a 2 gaurd prospect and virtually ungaurdable at that position... I think its laughable that ESPN wouldn't put him #1... With me if I have to question a Big's motor at this age then I shouldn't expect much from him in the pros... Remember effort goes a long way with big man and if they don't have it now, what make you think they will while collecting millions?? Bazz will be a sure fire All-Star, while Nerlens its a BIG ASS if...
3rd point... How great is Jabari Parker??? You have 2 players who are great a year ahead of you and you practically better than both... I downloaded the 2014 draft class on 2k and improve Parker's abilities... The end result he was a 88... Haha... Is he the best HS prospect since dare I say it... LeBron James???
Right on I havent seem noel do much.He is limited rember hassan whiteside similar player similar build alot of skinny big men dont cut it. Anthony davis is getting bigger muscle wise everytime I see him he just had a growth spurt so he putting on this guy noel has been tall and linky for 2 years not a good look.Not an elite rebounder not even a good rebounder yet so all we have to go off is his shot blocking off high school KIDS some who will never play in college let alone the nba.
I have bazz I wouldn/t be surprised at this moment if he was stronger then noel and weighed more.
Push come to shove Bazz might be a better pf then noel this year I can see him seeing some mins at the 4 in a smaller line up cause hes a problem on the boards and jumps out the gym.
Bazz has the upside to play 1 through 4. Noel might be able to play center on the next level.
Basically those other sites go against the grain and didn't just pick the better scorer. They picked the guy who has more of a I pact on the game instead of the guy who has the better impact on his stats. Someone who can change the game on defense makes others around him better where as Bazz is a great one on one player but doesn't make anyone around him better. Bazz is the better all around player but Noel's game leads to more wins. When these site rank players they rank on what they do now as well as potential. Personally I have no issue with one or the other being ranked first. Neither is a clear cut like a lebron was so its debatable
Bazz 1-4. Have you seen him play. He doesn't have the ability to play the one at all. Still learning to play the two. Can play some 4 in college but would get abused trying to play the 4 in the NBA
Another reason Noel could be ranked where he is, his offense has made major strides from last year to this year. He's still raw and working on it but last year he had no other way to score except dunk. His handles have improved as well as having a go too hook shot and a much better mid range. Still don't expect much more than 10ppg from him when it comes to creating his own offense
I would take Parker , Randle , Bazz , Adams , and Andrew Harrison over Nerlens out of the 2012 and 2013 classes.
My top 10 for college
3 Kyle Anderson
4 Steven Adams
5 Cameron Ridley
6 Isaiah Austin
7 Kaleb Tarcewski
8 Archie Goodwin
9 Gary Harris
10 Alex Poythress
Just off the cut: Bennett, Ashley, Dekker, Smart, Purvis
A shot blocker,defender can change the other teams whole offense. Makes you're teammates better defenders as well
of his slight frame and lack of offensive game. I see too much Tyrus Thomas/Anthony Randolph and not enough Chris Bosh.
Cody Zeller went from 210lbs to 225ish (not believing 230) before he stepped on the court this season, Noel needs to do the same.
With Noel's raw offensive game it has to be Muhammad.
Yeah I know he cant play the one right now lol Hes mind is set on one thing but he still has the UPSIDE to learn to play it somewhat.Carmello started playing point early this year and late last season due to no other point on the knicks and due to this has passing and floor vision has increased.This might make me sound like a hypocrite but he is a more "passive" melo now but seriously he does make the right passes and gets others involved look at the recent bulls game the celtics series , this year before the linsanity began. From looking at melo I think its possible bazz can play a little pg at times due to the ability to score and keep defenders honest.He has a long way to go tho and versatility and passing ability TO PASS AT ALL come to think he doesnt like defer to other teammate at all. Maybe its because of the games he played in that I watched.
Stop defending Noel you UK fan your going down this season.Your tourny dreams need to be chopped in half like noels Hi top.
I did not neg you, but I seeing that I am the only person that made the Oden/KD connection in this matter, I stand by what I said. How is Shabazz on KD's level? Do you think that Shabazz is going to go for 26 and 11 this year at UCLA? I have to say, neither of them are on the level of the scenario I compared them too. Oden was an absolute monster of a physical specimen, he literally would have been near impossible to box out even at the highest level.
How are you confused when I (as the only person that made the distinction, I believe) say that Shabazz is not on the level of Kevin Durant as a prospect? Yes, Kevin Durant may have been rated behind Oden in every website on the RCSI (check statsheet.com), but that still does not mean he was not a monster of a prospect. I mean, the guy is 6'10 (or so) with a monster wing span and a skill set enough to be a monster scorer. Shabazz is a monster too, better athlete, but is he going to be Durant? Is he going to be Kobe or Wade? It is possible, but I just do not believe that is the case. He can still be an awesome prospect, even future All-Star and not be KD.
If you are talking about HS prospects, I think that Dwight Howard was indeed a monster right after Dwight Howard. Not to mention, Greg Oden was also a two time Gatorade Player of the Year as a HS prospect as well, all 7'0 and 260 of him with monster athleticism. Parker is a very solid prospect and he more than likely will be a great player, but again, I am not sure he is the best since LeBron James. Maybe as far as doing well against his peers, possibly, but as far as potential goes I think there were a few since LeBron that were probably more special than Jabari. One was even an alumnus of Simeon, Derrick Rose. Derrick did not have the early career of Parker, but in the end, I just felt he was an absolute monster prospect.