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How many times will Kyrie Irving average 20 points and 10 assists for a single season?

Andrew1984
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How many times will Kyrie Irving average 20 points and 10 assists for a single season?

It might seem like a very reasonable accomplishments, but here are some interesting numbers: great players and the amount of times they've done this:

  • Oscar Robertson, 5
  • Isiah Thomas, 4
  • Magic Johnson, 3
  • Kevin Johnson, 3
  • Chris Paul, 2
  • Tim Hardaway, 2
  • Deron Williams, 1
  • Bob Cousy, Gary Payton, Steve Nash, John Stockton, Jason Kidd, Derrick Rose, Rajon Rondo, zero.

I'm going to say Kyrie Irving will do it four times. It's also of note that nobody in league history has average 20 points, 10 assists, and shot 40 percent from the 3-point line for a single season. I am predicting that Stephen Curry will be the first to accomplish this at least once in his career, and that Kyrie Irving will also do it at least once.


the U 327
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Uh, never. He's not good

Uh, never. He's not good enough of a distributor and doesn't have anyone good to pass to on the Cavs.

MagikKnick
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If Bob Cousy, Gary Payton,

If Bob Cousy, Gary Payton, Steve Nash, John Stockton, and Jason Kidd couldnt do it, what makes you think Kyrie Irving will do it?

Hes going to be good, but your putting him in a legendary category

ItsVictorOladipo
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If Bob Cousy, Gary Payton,

If Bob Cousy, Gary Payton, Steve Nash, John Stockton, and Jason Kidd couldnt do it, what makes you think Kyrie Irving will do it?

Hes going to be good, but your putting him in a legendary category

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Chris Paul and Deron Williams did it and they aren't quite legendary (at least not yet). Irving has the potential to be a better scorer than Stockton and Kidd (who never approached the 20 PPG mark) and a better passer than Payton (who never averaged more than 9 APG), while Bob cousy was putting up his assist numbers in a much different league where it was nearly impossible to average 10 per game (usually the second best passer during his run of seven assists titles would average around 6-7 APG).

I see a couple 20-10 seasons out of him as well. Just a predicition. Yes cleveland is terrible right now but that doesn't mean they will be that way for the next 12 years.

And just an interesting note, all of Oscar's 20/10 seasons were also 30/10 seasons. He averaged over 30 PPG, and 10 APG five times. Amazing!

Andrew1984
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His skill set is that

His skill set is that refined. His work ethic is that committed. His vision and unselfishness are that elite. True, nobody to pass to yet. That will come. They'll add scorers in the draft and free agency, not all at once, but over the next couple years. I watched Zeke and this kid reminds me of Zeke.

BKKnicksfan
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Can the man play a quarter in

Can the man play a quarter in the NBA first before making statements?

Andrew1984
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Ok, so we'll just disable

Ok, so we'll just disable this entire message board if making predictions and speculating as to future accomplishments isn't allowed.

NYCrealdeal
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i think

he might be able to do it once if the cavs get good players at the prime of ervings career

Andrew1984
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Its Dwight Howard, Thank you

Its Dwight Howard,

Thank you for coming to my defense with some very poignant insight! Great stuff!

Jlv2012
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Kyrie is overrated,

you will see.

TallmanNYC
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If Kyrie did 20 and 10 four

If Kyrie did 20 and 10 four times that would certainly be legendary.

I doubt Steph Curry will ever crack 10 assists (he has two years of being a 6 assist average while playing basically as many minutes as you can ever expect him to and also in a fast offense). If he does, it will be because he has become a complete distributor and then won't be scoring 20 points. You just really have to completely dominate the ball and the offense to both score and get credit for assists at the 20/10 level.

aamir543
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Wait, so first you tell us

Wait, so first you tell us how hard it is to get 20 10, give us the statistics, then you tell us that the number one in potentialy the weakest top 5 in history, is going to be up there with the big O and isaiah Thomas!!!!!!!! (Staphen A Smith voice) I can mot belieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve you would say such a thing. That is blasfamous, I dont even wanna see yo face!

kevnix5
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If Irving is going to do this

If Irving is going to do this 4 times, how many times will John Wall do it because I don't think anyone would argue he is and will always be the better player of the two?

Andrew1984
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Good point. The only way for

Good point. The only way for Steph to do it is for him to get even more efficient with his shooting. He's capable of being one of the greatest shooters of all time. If he can increase his shooting percentage from the field and score more points on fewer shots, then more of his touches can end with assists.

He also needs a teammate who can score in the post. Most of the league's assist leaders have bigs who they can get to the rim and dish to who can finish consistently, or bigs that actually run the floor and score. That makes it way easier to accumulate assists. David Lee was banged up this year, and tends to drift out to the perimeter a little.

Andrew1984
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Aamir, I'm sincerely relieved

Aamir, I'm sincerely relieved that someone who spells blasphemous with an F doesn't agree with me.

Andrew1984
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Plus, you won't know if this

Plus, you won't know if this class is weak or not for another five years, and even if this does turn out to be weak class, that has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on an individual player's potential for greatness.

kevnix5
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So people actually think

So people actually think Irving has even a chance to put up better numbers than Chris Paul/a young Jason Kidd/ Steve Nash? That sounds kind of ridiculous to me.

kevnix5
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So people actually think

So people actually think Irving has even a chance to put up better numbers than Chris Paul/a young Jason Kidd/ Steve Nash? That sounds kind of ridiculous to me.

i'm jus so offended
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a big ol' fat ZERO

a big ol' fat ZERO

bloodshy
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Steph Curry will do it

Even though he's only averaged 6 apg thus far, it's not all an issue of minutes. It's that creation time is split between Curry & Ellis. If Ellis is traded (likely), Curry will be THE facilitaror & his assist numbers will go up significantly.

As for Irving... I don't think he'll ever do it--and I think he'll be very good. I think he'll be a 17ppg, 9apg type in his prime. He'll certainly have 30 & 15 nights, but on average I don't think he'll crack 20ppg in any season. That said, he could easily out-perform my expectations. We've only seem him play like 300 minutes of college ball, so he could be a lot better or worse than we realize.

GottaBeTheShoes
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John Wall and Derrick Rose

John Wall and Derrick Rose have a much better chance of doing it. Kyrie will do one or the other but he can't do them both.

JoeWolf1
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0, I really don't see him as

0, I really don't see him as that kind of passer. Of any of the young point guards, I think the next will be John Wall. He is a great passer and plays in an uptempo system, I think he won't be a 20ppg guy on his career by any means, but I think he'll crack 20 ppg a few times in his career.

Rose and Westbrook I think could hit 9 as a peak, but I don't see either one of those guys as being 10 assist guys for a season, but 24 or 25 and 9 is just as good if not better than 20 and 10 IMO.

shipargos
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7-7.5

Providing he is healthy, i see him averaging 20 a night, he is a good scorer and has a good jumpshot, but not 10 assists. maybe 7-7.5

However, with a pointguard oriented coach, just like Sloan was in Utah, i could see him on 18-10, maybe even one season in 20-10.

PulseGlazer
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Besides Paul and Deron again,

Besides Paul and Deron again, the most likely is Wall. Rose is about where he should be in terms of assists, unless he gets an absurd pick and pop partner. Irving should score well, but not 20 per. Wall has the greater scoring ability and at least similar court vision, along with an up tempo game that lends itself to big numbers. Wall is my pick.

Andrew1984
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Kyrie seems so effortless. I

Kyrie seems so effortless. I think when he's 22 or 23, there'll be so many nights when he gets a quiet 22 and 12 that you barely even notice. No crazy highlights. Just solid fundamental basketball.

Memphis Madness
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The Cavs would be lucky to

The Cavs would be lucky to get 15 and 8 out of Kyrie Irving. I think he is a '2nd tier' point guard. Not in the superstar, first tier point guard range where you have a point guard that you can build a championship contender around.

... wondering what the high for Rod Strickland was. I think Irving is going to be more like that. Very solid throughout his career but never a Top Tier point guard. I think Damon Stoudamire might have come close too. But, 20/10 is really hard and I don't see Irving doing it.

The bigger question is will Cleveland improve more than the T-Wolves (who are also bringing in a rookie point guard and a forward picked in the top 5), or the Bobcats (who are bringing in a big-name, big-time small guard picked in the lottery was well as another lotto big man with upside).

If the Cavs improve less than the T Wolves, Bobcats, and even the Kings (Jimmer, but a healthy Tyreke would have more of an effect), or the Pistons (a better comparison with a rookie lotto point guard in Brandon Knight, a healthy Jerebko, but a second rookie of lesser talent in Kyle Singler) then I think it was a questionable pick for Cleveland.

I don't even like the Cavs draft when you take a look at next year's draft. It's is supposedly a great draft for wings but Harrison Barnes is not that athletic and might turn into a fringe all-star but I don't see him being a superstar. Even if he is the next superstar and the Cavs finish with the worst record in the league (which would be a very bad sign for Cavs fans) there is no guarantee that the Cavs finish with a top 3 pick. Oh, I think Kendall Marshall had as much to do with Barnes and UNC getting better as anything. I really like Marshall. Good player who can really run a team. Would I rather have Kyrie Irving, Tristan Thompson, (plus the 3rd, 4th, or 5th pick in next year's draft), Or Derrick Williams, Valenciunas, and Kendall Marshall? I would rather have Williams, Jo-Val, and K-Marsh (hope that catches on). Great front line (with Hickson at the 4) with a great playmaking, pass-first point guard.

Other than Barnes, you have Perry Jones who wasn't THAT impressive and he has not really put it all together since his junior year of high school. A good talent, but is he (or even Barnes) better than Derrick Williams?

James McAdoo is supposed to be good, but is he a tweener?

Other top guys next year are Anthony Davis who is very skinny and would be the Cavs' 3rd power forward if they take him along with Austin Rivers (who might have to convert to point guard in the NBA) and Myck Kabongo, another point guard. The irony is that if the Cavs improve some, get the 3rd worst record and fail to really move up in the draft, they will end up with the 6th pick or so and the best, most polished player there might be Jared Sullinger, who would then also be the Cavs' third power forward. ... I don't see a center prospect like Jo-Val in next year's draft nor do I see a 6'11 freak athlete combo forward like Jan Vesely. I am not really sold on next year's draft. If your team gets a top 3 pick and need a small forward then you are in good shape (guys who could be better than Derrick Williams or even Jan Vesely but might not be), but the Cavs aren't guaranteed to get a top 3 pick anyway. The Cavs could use a legit 2 guard so Jeremy Lamb could be a good pick but he might not have all-star potential. But that pick would work out better had the Cavs taken D-Dubya at 1 and a UConn Huskie at 4 (Kemba Walker).

Johnny Chill
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Getting Assist on a Weak Cavs team

Kyrie can easily ave 18 points per game his rookie year, because he can get to the lane and finish with both hands. He's a great FT shooter, and has a good jump shot. He has a shot at scoring 20 pts per game later on in his career.

Getting 10 asst per game will be hard to come by. He needs guys that can make open jump shots. Cavs don't have that yet. Rookie year he will ave 6-7 assist. Probably ave 8-9 for his career.

durantula83
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@Johnny Chill Half a point for your comment and half a point...

@Johnny Chill Half a point for your comment and half a point for your round breasted girlfriend. Good catch my man. :-)

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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Zero.

Zero.

aamir543
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@Andrew1984, I am not typing

@Andrew1984, I am not typing up an essay, so sorry I dont proofread my posts for spelling, but yes I do know how to spell blasphemous.

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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I don't think people realize

I don't think people realize just how overrated Kyrie Irving is at this point. When Sullinger, Barnes, P/T Jones were still in the draft, Kyrie Irving was just seen as another Mike Conley. The #1 pick is always hyped up to a point that some expectations are ridiculous. Kyrie Irving has been hyped up.

I remember, while Sullinger, Barnes, and both Jones were still in the draft, he was called Earl Watson by some, Mike Conley by others, but NEVER Chris Paul. As big name players started pulling their names from the draft, Kyrie Irving became more and more hyped up. He didn't work out at the combine and was eliminated by Arizona in the NCAA tourney. Even while he wasn't playing or working out during his collegiate offseason, his comparisons began to rise.

How is it that a guy is in his collegiate offseason and he suddenly goes from Watson to Conley to Chris Paul?

He's just overhyped because of the fact that the actual big name players pulled out of the draft. The media needs SOMEBODY to hype up, and Kyrie Irving fits the bill.

BKKnicksfan
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@TOL23 100% disagree. People

@TOL23

100% disagree. People were calling him Chris Paul from the beginning. In fact, some people talked themselves down from him from what I remember. He was always talented. He had a couple great games before the injury and I think had he remained healthy, Duke could have repeated.

I never heard Earl Watson. I heard Mike Conley. Anyone who saw him play thought he was Chris Paul like, with Mike Conley similarities. The difference was Conley wasn't as great a shooter as Irving proved. Would he have gone one if Sullinger and Barnes stayed in the draft? No, but he would have gone top 3. Perry Jones, nor Terrance Jones was never rated higher then Irving (T. Jones for like a week)

I think Irving will be a star, the thing is we have to see what point guard he is (a Bill Simmons thought I agree with), and who could he make better in Cleveland. Can he help Hickson? Can he help develop Thompson. I think that's the bigger thing to see about Irving going forward.

I could see him average 16 points, 7 assists next season.

aamir543
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@BKKnicksfan, For most of the

@BKKnicksfan, For most of the early collegiete season, I saw Jones numbrer 1, only in January and Febuary did I start to see Irving ahead of Perry Jones.

BKKnicksfan
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How did you see Irving over

How did you see Irving over Jones in Jan/Feb when he didn't play.

Terrance Jones dominated in Maui, that's the week I was talking about.

Johnny Chill
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How is Irving overrated?

He was projected to be a top 3 pick. When the Cavs won the lottery, he was a lock to go 1st overall, because he is a pure point guard, fills a need, and always played excellent versus high level competition.

Can someone who thinks he is overrated please explain why?

What about him is overrated?

Memphis Madness
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Conley is really fast and has

Conley is really fast and has an insane vertical. He also had a great tournament. OSU lost because Conley got in foul trouble.

And so what if Kyrie Irving is the next Chris Paul? Chris Paul has yet to get to the NBA Finals and I doubt he ever does. If he does then it will be because they added another top 10 player (superstar or semi-superstar).

Then with the fourth pick they go out and get a power forward who plays the same position as JJ Hickson.

Great wings and centers win titles. Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett, and Rasheed Wallace are very, very good power forwards who have titles but they are close to 7 feet tall who can also play some center. Those are the kinds of guys who have been proven to win NBA titles, with point guards and average size power forwards being the least likely to win an NBA title as guys you build around. Horace Grant was a 6'10 third-option power forward but he played with the best wing player of all time and another great all-time wing player. Isiah's Pistons had a average sized power forwards and an all-star point guard. Maybe they should model the Cavs after those teams.

The Predator
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None?

None?

Johnny Chill
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Memphis

Dont hate on Irving just because was drafted #1 overall, that doesnt mean he is overrated.

Derrick Williams is a tweener, if he was a PF like Garnett or Duncan he would have easily been #1 overall, but he's not.

JJ Hickson's upside is limited. He would be a nice guy to have come off the bench for a playoff contender.

BKKnicksfan
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Great wings and centers win

Great wings and centers win titles. Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett, and Rasheed Wallace are very, very good power forwards who have titles but they are close to 7 feet tall who can also play some center.

Other then Duncan, Those guys had to join star guards to win titles tho....

Gasol- Bryant

Garnett-Pierce/Allen

Wallace-Billups/Hamilton

NYK2010
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Cavs don't have enough

Cavs don't have enough scorers I'd say he gets it 1 time.

Johnny Chill
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BKKnicks

So your saying Duncan won 4 titles by himself = Failed.

David Robinson, Manu, Tony Parker (Finals MVP)

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Johnny Chill

who is that goddess as your picture, wow

Andrew1984
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A year later, I sure do look

A year later, I sure do look like I'm in the driver's sight to be right on this one. Some of you knuckleheads should be ashamed at your lack foresight.

lalaila
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so what you makes think he

so what you makes think he will get 10apg while,when he avg less than DRose his rookie year

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@andrew1984

Irving averaged 5.4 assist per game this past season. He didn't exactly assert himself as a definite 20-10 guy. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I doubt it actually does happen.

I think it is a little bit early to compliment yourself on your foresight.

PulseGlazer
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You showed how rare it is,

You showed how rare it is, then after he averaged 5 assists as a rookie, you still insist he'll do it 4 times? What the hell!?

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^

To be fair to him, he made that post almost exactly a year ago. Irving had yet to play as a rookie. Not that it was any less of a ridiculous prediction.

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