someone break it down for me please
Love is a Star, not a Super-Star, but my bet is by the end of the season we'll all be calling him a superstar.
But the reason I think he is a Star is because in the three point era(since 1979-1980), he's 1 of 4 guys to average 26 and 13 in a season. Shaq and Moses did it twice, and Hakeem did it once. That's elite company. But he still has to prove he can lead a team to W's before we put him up there with Westbrook and Durant and them.
I agree with both of u guys... idk how some ppl on this site think hes a superstar... hes cleary not.. and its not close
I disagree, I think he's very close, when his team starts winning while he's playing well, I have no problem calling him a superstar. He hasn't played very well since returning from injury, but he'll be fine, he's a really special player and he's definitely a franchise player, no doubt about it, the T-Wolves got him at a big discount for 60 mil for 4 years.
Is this serious? He's the best player at his position. Why people hate on him, I won't ever understand.
He had a broken hand.. as a shooter it takes some time to recover from that.
This is getting ridiculous. Someone needs to declare an official NBADraft.net Kevin Love debate. so many threads on one player. The power level is over 9000.
he aint better than dirk
I you mean offensively, than yes, I can agree with you, Dirk is lightyears better and more skilled than Love. They're both jump shooters but Love is basically a spot up guy and gets the rest of his points off put backs, where as Dirk is probably one of the most skilled players of All-Time. However as a whole Kevin Love is a way better rebounder and it's not very close in that regard. I'd say it's close, but I'm a little weary about Dirk coming back from knee surgery. Last season even though his ppg was at 21, he was really at 24 ppg after he got in shape sometime in late January. He can still play very well and I wouldn't be surprised if he has another legendary playoff run in him as long as his knee holds up.
"he aint better than dirk" .. what.... so..? dirk is the border? if better = superstar, if not = no superstar ?? lel
And to answer your question, Malik, Kevin Love is a superstar. And it's bigger than his productivity on the court, his rebounding prowess, stats, accolades, and being the top power forward in the game. For the past 3 seasons, Love has been a media figure that garners much attention considering playing for the Wolves. Love is not one of my favorite players, but there is no doubt he is a superstar.
I just don't see it
IMO, superstars are able to command extra attention from the defense and still get theirs while also being able to make plays for others. They are good enough offensively to carry offenses for stretches. Is Love good enough offensively to consistently command doubles or to be a go to scorer/playmaker down the stretch of games when defenses tighten up? Can a team just give him the ball and expect him to get a bucket?
He's a super productive star, perennial all-star but not a superstar. There are only a handful of superstars in the league and Love ain't one of them. Being a superstar is more than production.
So is Melo a superstar? And if so, when did his defense earn him that title?
Yes he is and his defense didn't help him earn that title.
I think popularity with fans makes someone a superstar. For the record, I don't the Love is because he doesn't have the level of stardom as Lebron or even Jeremy Lin. I just get tired of the defense issue, there have been plenty of offensive heavy stars who were on a much lower level on D.
I'm not sure why you're bringing up defense into the equation. FWIW, K.Love was actually a pretty solid defender last year. I don't think it's about popularity either. Dirk could've been considered a superstar and he wasn't that popular.
Movie stars don't always make the best movies, The superstars of the NBA aren't always the best players, they usually are very good, play in a big market and have huge fan followings. The All-Star voting is a prime example. More people off the street would call Jeremy Lin a star, than they would Ty Lawson, but that doesn't mean Lin is better.
The best players in the NBA are the best players in the NBA, but the superstars are the guys that fill the seats, sell the jerseys and most of the time are the best players in the NBA, but I've never thought star level is the same as being the best. Shaq at 38 was still a superstar, but despite being better that year, Andrew Bogut was not.
Sounds like what you're describing is what a superstar might be to a casual fan. I'm talking about a superstar in terms of ability and performance. By your definition Lin was a temporary superstar.
I'm going with the literal definition. I just don't believe someone can be described as a superstar without a huge universal fan following. Sometimes deserving, sometimes not. Being the best is something else, and something far more subjective.
Except Love's popularity isn't anything special, so even in that definition he's still not.
That's what I wrote in my second post.
You could even expand and talk about non-basketball related things like personality, marketability, Q-rating, etc. All things I could really give 2 shts about. I think it's entirely possible to label someone a superstar based on performance. TD's lack of marketability didn't make him any less of a superstar in his prime. Same thing with Dirk... and KG to a lesser extent.
I doubt our list of the top 10 players would be very different. I just always viewed "stardom" as something less basketball related than, a grouping of the top 3 or top 10 players in the NBA or a list of franchise changing players. I think what definition versus what term is the only thing were arguing here and that's cool. I still think Shaq averaging 9 ppg in Boston was a superstar, because of the non basketball related stuff. Just different definitions, is what it sounds like.
Here are a list of Superstars in my opinion: Melo, Lebron, Durant, Rose, CP3, Dirk, Timmy, Dwight(Orlando Dwight that is), Kobe and Westbrook. If you give me a healthy Wade(he's not healthy right now) than I'll put him there too, I know some of you guys might have a problem with Westbrook being there but he's a Superstar in my opinion, and I put Dirk there because he still averaged 24 ppg for the last two months of last season, he can still play. And I put Duncan there because he's averaging 19 and 10 for the best team in the league and is absolutely beasting on the defensive end, posting 2.5 blocks per game in just 30 mins and leading the league in Defensive rating, a metric that shows the amount of points allowed per 100 possessions, and second only to Joakim Noah in Defensive Win Shares, a metric stat that shows the number of wins contributed by a player's defense, and is 8th in win shares per 48 mins, which shows the number of wins contributed by a player per 48 mins.
Of those three stats, the first two seem very solid and accurate however the win shares per 48 mins seems a bit odd, since Tyson Chandler is 2nd and Tiago Splitter is 6th, lol.
Chandler's win share is very high because his shooting percentage is off the charts. Best in the league for years now and hitting numbers that are all time greats. Other Centers that have had great FG%s have had a weakness in FTs, but Chandler doesn't have that weakness. Hence a lot of stat systems love Chandler. And he did make the US team and won a championship with Dallas. So even the main stream media recognizes that Chandler can play. They just get a little confused because they think it is solely Chandler's defense that makes him a winner. It is a combination of elite offensive efficiency and defense that makes him so valuable.
In answer to the question, yes Love is a superstar. That is unless your definition of Superstar is either a guy who is top five in the league or if your definition only includes guys who have ISO scoring skills. Love isn't any of those things, so then in your mind he isn't a superstar.
But he is a very very good player and I think he is the best PF in the league (excluding when Lebron or KD plays PF). He isn't as good as Duncan or Dirk were in their prime, but those days are over even if the old guys can still ball (especially Duncan this year).
Also, seriously. I'm getting tired of the Love debates on this site. And I know I'm feeding them!!! I have to be stopped!!
This is getting out of hand. Kevin Love is the PF in the NBA today. Last year, he was 4th in scoring and 2nd in rebounding, how is that not at least on the cusp of being a superstar. I agree he isn't up there with Lebron, Kobe, Carmelo, Durant, Westbrook,Paul, Duncan, and Wade/Dirk/Rose (when they're all healthy) and maybe Dwight. Past those guys, I'd take Love over everyone else today. He's gotten off to a slow start (to his standards) breaking his hand and trying to get back in game shape, and still averaging a double double. I think JoeWolf is right when saying popularity plays a part of being a superstar, because the average NBA fan isn't as in tune with the game as people on this site are, they go off what they see from ESPN.
Love isn't a guy who makes his teammates better, and neither do Carmelo, Dirk, Duncan or Dwight, that isn't his role, he doesn't need to be. I can still remember so many people saying Dirk could never be the best player on a championship team. If Dirk can be the lead guy on championship team and two finals trips, so can Love.
Love is absolutely a superstar.
Top 5 players by WARP 2010-2011 (per Basketball Prospectus):
1) Lebron James 21.2
2) Dwight Howard 20.5
3) Dwayne Wade 17.1
4) Derrick Rose 16.6
5) Chris Paul 16.3
5) Kevin Love 16.3
Top 5 players by WARP 2011-2012 (per Basketball Prospectus):
1) Lebron James 23.5
2) Kevin Durant 19.0
3) Chris Paul 18.2
4) Kevin Love 16.7
5) Dwight Howard 14.6
Even if you're skeptical about advanced stats, Love is clearly one of the handful of top players in the league. If you put him outside the top 10, you're nuts.
there are only maybe 7-8 superstars in the nba right now.
This argument of who is and isn't a superstar in the NBA reminds of of who is and isn't an "elite" QB in the NFL we hear all the time.
The question keeps getting asked on all these Kevin Love posts... who would you rather have playing PF then Kevin Love?
This is a complex question when you factor in the team and team needs...and contract, which is the biggest factor of all. The NBA is a Cap league and if you can really only afford 2 (maybe 3) max players in the new NBA... Do you really want Kevin Love to be one of them? Are you comfortable with Kevin Love being your max player for the NBA championship or is there someone else you would rather have who might also be a bit cheaper? If Kevin Love was really the best of the best at his postion, then their is no peer. Situationally speaking there are quite a few who could be equally imposing for the timberwolves and compliment their starting unit just as effectively. As I've mentioned before... stop following the stats and watch the game.
How about KENNETH FARIED? He lacks 3 point shooting (Love wasn't shooting 3's early in his career) but appears to be just as productive (with playing time, which Love never got his first 2 years) and is amazingly pesky on defense guarding anyone from PG's to PF's... and Faried won't cost you a max contract when his rookie deal is up. In addition Faried won't breakup the offensive flow with his shot selection. He will allow Pekovic to go to work in the post and allow the rest of the offense to flow because he is always moving and setting picks.
There is also SERGE IBAKA. His midrange game is coming along, he runs the floor hard, plays very solid defense aswell as being great shot blocker.
Blake Griffin... he moves without the ball and doesn't rely on being a spot up shooter for the bulk of his points.
Anderson Varejao...if we're being blown away by hustle and rebounding why not this guy at a much more reasonable contract? 14.62 boards per so far this season.
Rubio is a playmaker who can get the ball to anyone...if they're moving.
Pekovic is a bruising center with decent low post skill and solid man to man defense.
Kevin Love doesn't make too many cuts to the basket. He tends to stand around and is not an iso scorer. Defense is mediocre for his position. Passing is average...
There was a lull in the NBA after Denis Rodman where the best rebounding # in a season was about 12 per game... 3 years ago Kevin Love came in and put up about 15 a game. It was very unusual... and it also made other players make more of an effort since that time at padding their rebounding stats.
These "extra" rebounds don't necessarily translate to wins... but they definitly look sweet when your agent is trying to lock up your next contract.
See Humphries, Kris, who made 10 mil last season and signed for 2 and 24mil this past offseason. YUCK!
Skills that Love has:
1) Elite rebounding. Both offensive and defensive. Offensive rebounding is more valuable.
2) High volume of shots close to the basket. This leads from the offensive rebounding.
3) Elite three point shooting. Shot 37% last year on 5 attempts per game.
4) Good ability to get to the FT line and solid FT shooter, especially for a big man.
5) Solid passer
6) Low turnovers
Love is extremely well rounded as an offensive player.
Faried is an elite rebounder, who also creates blocks and steals. But he has no perimeter game, and is not a good FT shooter. He also doesn't pass. Yes, that makes a huge difference.
Ibaka is a solid player. The shotblocking is a major skill. But he doesn't rebound as well as Love. He is a great midrange shooter, but elite 3pt shooting is a better skill. Has no passing game. Doesn't use as many possessions. Doesn't get to the FT line very often.
I could go through all of these players. But none of them has the full range of skills that Love has.
Duncan is definitely playing on that level this year. But in limited minutes.
In a playoff series gemmie KG, Duncan, Dirk, Bosh, and ZBO over Love.... I think a superstar should be able to lead their team to atleast a 8th seed... I'm not a huge fan of Blake Griffin but we really saw him man up last year in the playoffs, I gotta see that from Love before labeling him a superstar..
He shoots entirely too many threes and shoots a very low percentage. He definitely has the basketball instincts to go o the next level though. He rebounds but I can't judge yet ready to see how he is the more he works back from injury
Last yr he had the 2nd highest TS among starting PFs. Same thing in the '10-'11 season..
he isnt a superstar but he just puts up superstar numbers. if someone watches him play they arnt gonna say 'woah hes a superstar' but if someone looked at a boxscore with him in it then they would think hes in the mvp race. he just puts up monster numbers but IMO isnt a superstar
the guy isn't a f*cking superstar!!! hes just not.... hes put up monster numbers for a team that hasn't made the playoffs since 2004..... but how good are the wolves really?? yes there good when healthy but lets see him lead them into the playoffs and shoot near 50 percent from the field for the regular season... he doesn't even shoot that good of a percentage for his career for a big... look at the likes of Duncan, dirk... guys who are superstars (I don't consider Duncan a superstar anymore but dirk still is) these guys are so damn skilled and have the percentages to back it up... I know he broke his finger I think or hand but regardless I want to see him lead his team to the playoffs and outplay the likes of Randolph, marc gasol, tim Duncan, dirk.... until we proclaim him to be a superstar.... even before the injury that ended his season last yr the wolves weren't even in playoff contention... not saying they were way out of it but still
Dude, look like 2 posts above you. He's been among the league leaders in TS the past 2 seasons for PFs. Even with the crappy start to this year, his career TS is higher than Duncan and Randolph's.
and at TheShowOff..... if u claim love is a superstar but isn't on the level of Carmelo, Durant, LeBron... let alone which you said even tim Duncan..... then he isn't a damn superstar.... if he isn't on the level of a 36 yr old tim Duncan... then how the f*ck is he a superstar?? wheres BTPH when I need him
dude calm down
@siggy.. I know... but i want him to consistently outplay these dudes in the playoffs and maybe advance
Right Malik, you say he isn't a super star because he hasn't played in the playoffs. But do you realize how bad his team was? Last year they started Darko, Beasley, and Wes Johnson. Darko is finally out of the league. Wes Johnson is languishing on the Suns bench with his rookie contract. Most likely he is out of the league at the end of this season. And Beasley is heading toward an historically bad shooting year this year and folks are speculating that he is out of the league as soon as his contract is up (though he probably has a couple of more years left before all 30 teams have given up on him). Love was dragging an anchor of terrible players. No one could overcome those guys being on their team.
If your teammates are terrible, you won't make the playoffs. The only exception to that is if you are a guy like Lebron who is so good that you can carry everyone.
Let me put it this way, I give a shiit how good you are but unless you're leading your team to W's, you're not a Superstar. If you guys think Dirk is still a superstar, than why isn't Duncan still one. Yes he's lost a lot, but he's averaging 19 and 10 on the team with the best record in the league and playing the best defense in the league. If that isn't a superstar, than I don't know what is.
The only thing preventing me from calling Love is Superstar is that he hasn't won in this league. Once he does that, it's a no-brainer because he's a great player, top 8 in the League at the least.
Basketball is a team sport, and you can't win without a decent supporting cast. (Unless you're Lebron, T-mac, Shaq etc. And that means you're pretty much the best player in the league.) Nobody is arguing that Kevin Love is on that level.
Look at how many losing seasons KG had on the Twolves. It's the EXACT same situation.