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How good is Coach K at developing players

the lake show
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How good is Coach K at developing players

He gets All Americans every year and has More McDonald's All American players on his team then players who aren't so how come he doesn't produce more NBA players? It's not a given that you will be a NBA player just because you were a Micky D All American but your chances are alot higher then not being one.

Casey sanders

Joh scheyer

Lance Thomas

Nate james

Steve Wojciechowski

Taymon Domzalski

Eric Boateng

Ricky Price

Greg Paulus

Sean Dockery

He's a great college Coach and great at getting players to buy into his system but he is not good at developing players into Good NBA players.

Can't say i blame him though since thats not why they hired him. they hired him to make there team win and win titles which he has done


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Eric Boteng left for ASU. I

Eric Boteng left for ASU.

I ask this though, how many of those guys were even NBA talent guys? I mean, we could do the same thing for North Carolina ( hasn't produced a all star player since Vince) or Kansas ( tons of average players who never made it) or Arizona ( guards who never made it)

I would say that sometimes, it's the good with the bad.

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Every player that is a

Every player that is a McDonalds Allamerican is considered a NBA talent. Doesn't mean they will make it but they are considered a Potential NBA talent. You can look up all the guys that were McDonalds AllAmericans in HighSchool and they were all considered potential NBA talents

here's a article i have just come across

The great DUKE fallacy, why is it that Duke players can't cut it in the NBA?

For the first time in what seems like ages, America's most-hated college basketball team is back in its usual perch. The six years that have elapsed since Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski's last trip to the Final Four are an outlier in his 30-year tenure. Coach K, who has a record 75 NCAA tournament wins, now has 11 Final Four appearances on his résumé, a total that puts him just behind coaching paragon John Wooden.

One overwhelming factor can explain this run of success: talent. Only North Carolina has recruited more McDonald's high-school All-Americans—the first McDonald's team was selected in the late 1970s, just prior to Krzyzewski's arrival—and no team has netted more consensus top-50 recruits in the last decade. Many of these guys have gone on to the pros: NBA franchises have drafted 40 of Coach K's players, and 14 Blue Devils have played in the league this season alone. But when you consider their prep and collegiate accomplishments, these Dukies have made a surprisingly small mark on the NBA. No Duke player from the last three decades has been a core player on an NBA titlist, and just four—Grant Hill, Christian Laettner, Elton Brand, and Carlos Boozer—have played in an NBA All-Star game. (Shane Battier was recently dubbed a "No-Stats All-Star" by Michael Lewis in the New York Times Magazine, however.)

Don't expect any of this year's Blue Devils to change that trend. NBA draft analyst Jonathan Givony has four Duke players ranked in his top 100 prospects, none higher than freshman Mason Plumlee at No. 31. (Leading scorers Kyle Singler and Jon Scheyer are No. 40 and No. 99, respectively; Nolan Smith is not ranked.)

So, what's the explanation for Duke's lack of NBA accolades? While no single answer can account for the careers of Danny Ferry, William Avery, and Shavlik Randolph, I consulted with high-school-talent evaluators, stat mavens, a pro-basketball trainer, and a former Blue Devil on my quest for a grand unified theory. During these conversations I heard eight different theories for Duke's questionable NBA pedigree. (One that should be dismissed out of hand: the school's high academic standards. As a scholastic cohort, Duke hoopsters aren't in the same universe as the rest of the university.) Here's a rundown of the hypotheses.

Coach K's motivational techniques are too masterful. Part of the Krzyzewski mythos is that he is no mere coach. He is a leader of men, a commander so strong and wise that a Duke leadership and ethics institute bears his name. Basketball trainer and ESPN.com writer David Thorpe believes the hype. Duke's hoopsters "are playing for the best motivator in the country maybe in any sport," he says. Thorpe, who has trained ex-Dukies Luol Deng, Chris Carrawell, Brian Davis, and David McClure, believes this can work against Blue Devils players when they leave campus. "In the NBA, nobody cares," Thorpe says. "It's not a place where they're going to … push you every day. It has to come from within."

Thorpe cites Carrawell as an exemplar of this theory. The ACC player of the year in 2000, Carrawell was "a can't-miss NBA guy coming out of high school and college," Thorpe says. After he left Duke, though, the trainer thinks Carrawell got complacent and didn't improve his game enough to impress pro scouts. The consequence: He didn't get picked until the second round and was soon out of the league. Without "Mike Krzyzewski banging on him every day, he was flouncing in the water," Thorpe argues.

Bad luck. Bobby Hurley and Jay Williams both had their pro tenures cut short by motor-vehicle accidents. Grant Hill's likely path to the Hall of Fame was derailed by a succession of on-court injuries. Hurley and Williams might've flopped in any case, but if either one of those guys had played the point for a championship team, the perception of Duke's NBA pedigree would likely be different.

Some players are just overrated. Anyone who saw Shavlik Randolph play at Duke would have a hard time understanding why he was a McDonald's All-American. The same goes for a whole bunch of other Blue Devils players—Steve Wojciechowski, Taymon Domzalski, Nate James, and Eric Boateng among many, many others—who entered school with McDonald's plaudits that seem mystifying in retrospect. These overhyped players—OK, how about a few more: Sean Dockery, Greg Paulus, Casey Sanders—were never good enough in Durham, N.C., to even get a chance to wash out of the NBA.

It's possible that there's some credential bias going on here. When a player commits to Coach K—this usually happens before McDonald's releases its All-American game roster—the talent evaluators assume he must be really good. Dick Vitale, too, will likely start talking him up, and before you know it everyone's convinced that Greg Paulus is one of the best prospects in the country. Paulus was on a 2008 Duke team that featured eight McDonald's All-Americans—and nevertheless lost to West Virginia in the NCAA tournament's second round. "Oh my God," Mountaineers sub Cam Thoroughman said after learning that Paulus was a high-school all-star. "Are you kidding?"

The Golden Arches are corrupt. A more-sinister variant on the previous theory: Blue Devils players are overrated intentionally because Duke is the most-prominent, most-ESPN-approved basketball factory. Sonny Vaccaro, the longtime shoe company rep who basically invented the concept of high-school all-stardom, says the McDonald's All-American game is "biased towards the kids who go to school in the East and the ACC." Instead of selecting the nation's 24 best players, Vaccaro believes, you can "almost exclude failure" by choosing guys who go to Duke and North Carolina. "The public thinks you're automatically an All-American if you go to certain schools," he says. "The team is marketed through the ability for the players to be on television."

Bob Gibbons, who has been on the McDonald's selection committee for more than 30 years, says he doesn't think Duke players get an artificial boost. He also points out that a lot of McDonald's guys—not just the ones who go to Duke—fail to make it big. After hearing the long list of mysterious, Duke-bound honorees, though, Gibbons confesses that "some of them, maybe in a given year, might not have deserved it." (Gibbons also volunteered Josh McRoberts as an addition to my list of unduly hyped prepsters.)

Dukies get undeserved love from NBA scouts. It's not just Durham-bound high-schoolers who get overrated. While it's hard to believe in retrospect that a future All-Star like Carlos Boozer fell to the second round, it's more common to look back in wonderment at Blue Devils who soared too high. William Avery, Roshown McLeod, Cherokee Parks, and Trajan Langdon all got taken in the first round, perhaps in large measure due to the name on the front of their jerseys. "I think that there's a certain level of comfort … with the big schools," says Givony, the NBA draft guru. The scouts "know that these guys are well-coached, they know that they're going to be high character, they've seen them play a lot."

Out of all the big schools, NBA teams likely fall harder for Dukies because of their NCAA tournament success. In Stumbling on Wins, economists David J. Berri and Martin B. Schmidt find that players who appear in the Final Four the year they're drafted get a boost of 12 draft positions. Berri and Schmidt believe that this boost is unwarranted. One of the "statistically significant factors … that lead to less productivity in the NBA," they write, is "playing for an NCAA champion the year drafted."

No college basketball program can mold NBA stars. Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, LeBron James, Amare Stoudemire, and Dwight Howard never went to college. None of them seems to be any worse off for never having had the tutelage of Coach K or Roy Williams or Jim Calhoun.

From 1995 to 2005, when high-school players were eligible for the NBA draft, the simple act of going to college marked you as an inferior player. Even with the NBA's minimum-age rule in effect today, Sonny Vaccaro argues that college basketball "has nothing to do with making you a pro player." While an unpolished prospect like St. Mary's Omar Samhan can clearly get better with the help of college coaching, there's only so much Coach K or anyone else can do to make a great player even greater.

Coach K wants to win games, not develop pros. Even if college coaching doesn't have much impact on players' NBA potential, some schools (such as the University of Connecticut) have still been demonstrably better than Duke at churning out pro talent. Perhaps there's something about UConn that helps guys make the NBA. More likely, it's something about Duke that retards players' progress.

Mike Gminski, who played at Duke just before the Krzyzewski era and now broadcasts games for CBS, says Coach K's "hook is to get his team together for that year." All other concerns are secondary. Krzyzewski's mentor Bobby Knight had a similar philosophy, and a similar reputation for coaching NCAA winners who turned into pro duds. Both men are known to drill their players, installing rigid systems that come close to guaranteeing success at the college level. (In fairness, Krzyzewski has shown more flexibility in recent years, using a bigger lineup than usual this season to better match Duke's personnel.) While the team flourishes, individual players must fall into proscribed roles. Trainer David Thorpe says this hurts the pro prospects of guys like Casey Sanders and David McClure. Both players had amazing talent coming out of high school, but it was not in the team's interests for either player to work on expanding his offensive repertoire. There were other guys on the team who shot better, so Sanders and McClure rebounded and set screens. Goodbye NBA dreams.

If you're a Krzyzewski hater, you could argue that the coach is doing his players a disservice by diminishing their future earnings. The pro-Coach K contingent, though, can say that all these cases of NBA mediocrity only burnish his reputation. He's not "failing to develop" these guys as pros. He's helping them to play better than they would on another team, which distorts their apparent value.

Duke gets players who drink the Duke Kool-Aid. It's no surprise that Jon Scheyer grew up idolizing his predecessor J.J. Redick. A great outside shooter who makes every effort to look like he's hustling on the defensive end, Scheyer essentially trained himself to become a Blue Devils star.

When John Wall was considering Duke, by contrast, his high school coach Levi Beckwith had the following question for Coach K: "When you're playing Carolina and things aren't going well, when you take him out of the game and he mumbles, 'I shoulda gone to Carolina,' which to you is disrespectful and it's not the right thing to say ... how long are you going to sit him out? If he's going to be done for the year, then don't take him." It wasn't surprising, somehow, that Wall went to play for John Calipari at Kentucky.

Duke, which has the pull to recruit players from all around the nation, takes standout players like Scheyer by choice. But you'd be a fool to think Coach K wouldn't have found room for John Wall as well, if only Wall had wanted to come to Durham. Duke has never gotten the guys in the upper slice of their recruiting classes—players like Wall who see themselves less as collegians than as free agents en route to the NBA. While Duke leads the NCAA in top-50 recruits, it doesn't get top-10 recruits in the same volume as North Carolina and whatever school Calipari happens to be coaching at in a given year. In the end, this might not be a bad thing for the Duke program. If you're a college coach, who would you prefer to have in your program: Nolan Smith, or his one-and-done-at-Kansas State AAU teammate Michael Beasley?

http://whotheman.com/blog/114699/The-great-DUKE-fallacy-why-is-it-that-Duke-players-cant-cut-it-in-the-NBA

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Well first of all, he has had

Well first of all, he has had just as many NBA successes. I think that list is more indicative of the fact that some players aren't as good as advertised, than that Krzyzewski didn't develop them.

Casey Sanders-Had hands of stone. More importantly, he wasn't even one of Duke's best players and played behind better talent for most of his career.

Scheyer- Developed a ton at Duke, his game got much better. He just simply doesn't have the athleticism to be an NBA player.

Lance Thomas- Was very overrated in high school. If you watch him play, you can tell that he has zero offensive instincts. He also is undersized and doesn't have any type of SF skill set.

Nate James- I can't remember how highly rated he was in high school, I'm too young, but he was very good at Duke. He just didn't really have an NBA type game, he was a good college shooter and defender, but he didn't really have the athletic ability for those qualities to translate.

Wojo- I don't think anyone who ever watched Wojo play, would think he had any chance of becoming an NBA player. He got the most possible out of his abilities.

Taymon Domzalski- I don't even remember who that is, so I won't comment.

Rikcy Price- Played in the mid 90s right? Just slightly before my Duke Watching days.

Paulus- Same as wojo. Never had nba potential, not enough of a run and jump athlete.

Dockery- I will give you, part of his problem was that he played behind better players, but also his game didn't develop all that much. He was solid, but didn't live up to his ranking.

In conclusion here, I think the role that a coach plays in developing NBA talent is vastly exaggerated. If a player is a baller, he will succeed anywhere and be an NBA star. Elton Brand, Grant Hill I think would have been stars no matter where they went to college and I think that Thompson and Sanders would have been relative busts no matter where they went. I think what a coach instills in a player is much more attitude than actual fundamental skill.

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I understand that Duke has

I understand that Duke has busts, but so does every other school. What great NBA players has Roy Williams developed aside from Paul Pierce? I don't think Roy Williams isn't a good developer of talent, I just think not every player is destined to be a star.

You also can't ignore players like Boozer, Brand, Hill(Who was a superstar), Maggette, Loul Deng, Shane Battier, even players like Mike Dunleavy(Who granted was very overrated) and Dahntay Jones, have all been solid-good NBA players.

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Well i have already voiced my

Well i have already voiced my opinion on Dukes bigman development before. I think it would help if he let "outsiders"(didnt attend Duke) onto his coaching staff.

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Its both. He's a great coach

Its both. He's a great coach and some players dont pan out but he's also not that good and Developing players into NBA talent. It makes no sense to say He did a good job on the players that did well but then say its not his fault for the players who didn't

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I'm not saying that, I'm

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that I think that the biggest impact he has on developing players is instilling a winning attitude and attention to defense and intensity. I think his stars would be stars almost no matter where they went, and the same thing with his busts. My issue is that, you can make almost exactly the same list for any big time coach. Calhoun has a ton of buts, Roy Williams has a ton of busts, so does everyone. That doesn't mean they don't develop talent.

And McDunkin, I have heard your point about Wojo, but look at the Duke big men who have been busts. Do you really think Lance Thomas or Casey Sanders had the makings of an NBA player? I don't care if Hakeem Olajuwon was teaching them, I don't think it would make a difference.

I think part of the problem is that Duke players become very overrated, because of who they play for, which sets up unrealistic expectations.

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Speaking of Big Men, look how

Speaking of Big Men, look how much better Mason Plumlee has gotten from last year? Do I think that it is the result of Wojo's brilliant coaching? No, but I don't think that he holds back big men like you do.

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Coach K

I hate dook, but the players in the NBA thing is kind of an arbitrary argument. I dont think that Coach K's players would be any less prepared for the NBA than anybody elses. He doesnt coach them at the next level, there are too many variables. The next level depends entirely on the guys work ethic and phyiscal abilities.

He coached Dunleavy, Brand, and Boozer, who were all pretty well prepared.

He also coached Shavlik Randolph and Josh McRoberts, who are 2 of the bigger busts of the decade.

It goes both ways, but he is a good coach and has put a ton of players in the league.

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the answer

The reason he is not good at developing pro players is because the pro game is more about the individual and the college game is more team oriented he makes his players no matter how good by in to a team role so when they get into the nba there maybe to unselfish. Or instead of having a be the man attitude they have a share attitude because everyone who goes to duke is an all american players don't try to develop into that dominant player because they have a better chance at winning it all if they play off one another. Also you see it every year in recruiting someone gets higher ranked than they should because there going to duke or carolina.

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In hindesite no but before

In hindesite no but before they played at Duke they were both considered NBA prospects. Casey was the top defensive center in the nation and lance was a do it all forward. before those guys went to Duke they were considered one of the best. Its easy to say now that they weren't NBA prospects but that would be wrong because beofre coming and playing at Duke they were NBA prospects

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These players were ranked

These players were ranked high before signing with duke. They were all considered McDonalds AllAmericans before going to Duke. Name me one player who wasn't ranked top 20-30 That wasn't already considered a McDonald's AllAmerican candidate before signing with Duke or UNC. i could be wrong but i dont remember one player

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Oh, I agree with that, I just

Oh, I agree with that, I just think it has more to do with them being overrated than Krzyzewski not developing players. Both Thomas and Sanders had no offensive instincts at all and were probably not worthy of their ranking. Sanders was good at defense and he was athletic, but he hands of absolute stone. Time and time again Williams and Duhon would pass him the ball and he would fumble it and not finish. Thomas was very overrated in high school, I have no idea where people got the idea that he was a combo forward. Maybe he could play on the perimeter in high school, but against college level defenders, not even close. He was very undersized for the four and had no jump shot or handles. He did develop into a very good defender at Duke though and had a great work ethic. I just don't think he was ever cut out to be an NBA player, but people just didn't see it when he was in high school.

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I think every coach has their

I think every coach has their positives and negatives and I think Mike K is good a boosting some players to be greater than they are and playing in a team concept. That does not always work for some. Also a lot of those guys that were all American would have never made it to the NBA. Duke rarely gets players except for this past year that and with Jay , Elton, Boozer type years that make you go NBA superstar. Singler may not even be an NBA role player but he is hyped up. Mason Plumlee is probably a career bk up even with his athleticism. Irving is legit but will probably leave early. Seth Curry was good on the team he was on before this move. Nolan Smith is probably a guy that Mike K helps gets drafted and is a career bk up on the lines of Duhon who only got lucky to start for Knicks and is showing how bad he was as you see Felton flourish in the same system with the same opportunities mainly because Duhon can not shoot in an offense that requires it.

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Both could score pretty well

Both could score pretty well in Highschool. Especially Lance. Casey came down to the bob Gibbions tournament in N.C and dominate top ranked teams on offense and Defense. None of these guys lacked scoring at ABCD and Nike allAmerican camps. people just remember how they could score much in college and how they didnt develop but for some i remember how good they actully were on offense before coming to Duke and not being Developed. Same with dockery. He was the top defensive PG in his class and could get you buckets as well. Wojo used to give the top guards in the country buckets in big games while playing at cardinal gibbson. Nate james (another former AAu teammate) was the best player on the top team in the nation and dominated in AAU and ABCD camp. I didnt watch Domilyski but he was gatorade player of the year in his state. other then him and wojo the rest had NBA scouts at alot of there games

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Coacch K just isn't good at

Coacch K just isn't good at developing Players into NBA talents. no excuses alot of coach's aren't and its not his job to, he is great at what is and thats to make them good college players and a good college team. No one's perfect but you can't tell alot of Duke fans and some of my friends who are Duke fans. They blame it all on the players and say Coach K has nothing to do with it. Get all the credit when they do pan out and none of the blame when they don't. These players were very good coming in and they were NBA prospects. After they dont do well in college some try to say that they weren't but the fact is they were prospects that didnt get the development and that didnt pan out

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I got you, I think I probably

I got you, I think I probably didn't phrase my last point in the right way. Obviously there is a big difference between being able to score in high school and in college. Those two were some of the biggest and the most athletic and the skill level and defensive intensity just isn't as high in high school. People overestimated how well their games would translate to the next level, particularly their offensive skills. I think their not panning out to be NBA player has a lot more to do with them being overrated than with Mike Krzyzewski.

Dockery was an interesting case and I would agree that he didn't develop as well as he could have. Whether that had to do with Coach K, I don't know. He always played great defense, even as a freshmen, but he played behind Duhon for 2 years. He really worked on his jump shot a lot and by his Junior year he was knocking down 3s at a good clip. His senior year he shared the ball with Greg Paulus. I can't really pinpoint what exactly went wrong, he was a good role player, but never a star. I don't know why that happened.

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I already admitted that Mason

I already admitted that Mason has improved this year(even though he still looks pretty bad under the boards) but i honestly believe that even the players that were bust would have shown more improvement if they had a chance to work with a former bigman that has had high level playing experience. Duke just doesnt have many Alumni with that resume waiting to get the call from K

The best example of this in recent years, in my opinion, is Danny Manning for Kansas

Now do you think Lance Thomas or even Mason Plumlee wouldnt have been better off learning from a 2x All Star that actually played their position or a 5'11 pg that never made the league?

“He was a point guard and fed the big men the ball a lot so he knows where the ball is supposed to be and where we are supposed to be posting up" This is from Shelden Williams.

This qoute has always made me feel as if he is more of an extension of Coach K than a real bigman coach.

By this i mean while Manning helps players with the skills of the position that will help them with their own careers and be able to produce when needed. Wojo is more about helping the bigmen with the skills needed for playing within the Duke system.

There is nothing wrong with that since he is a college coach and he is getting them ready for the college game, but like i said i think it also holds them back from being the players they have the potential to be.

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OK, what coach is good at

OK, what coach is good at developing NBA talent, aside from Dean Smith, who has several HOF's? Coach K's players make more money in the league than any other coaches.

My guess would be that you will say Calipari, but I don't want to put words in your mouth. If you do say Calipari, I would counter that the reason he puts good players in the league is that he has recruited the very best talent. Rose, Wall, Cousins would be destined for NBA stardom regardless of who coached them. Did Cal do a good job with them? Yes, of course he did and I'm sure he helped them, particularly Cousins, but I wouldn't say he developed them into stars.

If you want to knock K for his failures, you also have to give him credit for his NBA successes, many of whom have been pretty damn successful.

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And yet Kansas doesn't have

And yet Kansas doesn't have any big men in the league that I can think of that are as good as Brand or Boozer either.

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Im alittle lost on the

Im alittle lost on the "developing NBA talent" part. Calipari is the big "NBA" college coach, but look at it this way:

Last 3 years

Calipari coached Wall, Cousins, Patterson, Bledsoe, Evans, Rose, Douglas Roberts, and Dorsey

K coached Scheyer, Singler, Henderson, Smith, Thomas, Zoubek, Nelson, McClure, and Paulus

It seems pretty obvious even out of high school that Calipari goes for the "NBA" guys. K wants players who are going to stay for more than 1 year. Im not saying K can do no wrong, im sure there are things that would make him a better coach at developing some guys, but lets not act like hes been failing on NBA calibur players.

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That's the thing alot of fans

That's the thing alot of fans just wont admit it. the closest they do to admitting it is saying what you said " what coach is good at developing NBA players. Like if someone tells a kid who isn't good at spelling they are not that good and they say " well what kid is or Jimmy isn't good at it" Not many Coach's get as many McDonald's All Americans as Coach K does. All of Coach Cal's All Americans get developed to be ready for the NBA. Dean Smith was great at making them very good college players and making them good pros's Its hard to compare other Coach's because other coach's dont even get Half the All Americans that Coach K gets. He's a good coach but the other guy i can think of Who used to get that many Good players was Coach Wooden and they won 10 titles

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Coach K goes after one and

Coach K goes after one and done players as well He just doesnt get them because most of them Don't like his system as far as what it will do to prepare them for the NBA. Coach Cal's system does thats why they pick him over Coach K

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Right, so I think some of the

Right, so I think some of the fault in his lack of NBA "stars" is in his recruting. I know he was going hard for Wall, and always has. He got PO'd after the Deng and Livingston both entered the 2004 draft and started going after more "4 year" guys. But when they werent dominating, he reverted back to trying for the one and dones. Kyrie Irving seems to be as 1 and done as you can get. We shall see how his career turns out.

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Whats interesting is for the

Whats interesting is for the rest of coach cals career hes gonna be coaching guys for 1 year lol

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Check out when the players

Check out when the players were in High school Coach K has always went after the one and Done's just like the other coaches.

Short term Coach Cal's method might not work but for those who look at long term it looks pretty good. Not all the players he get will go int he draft so as they stay and more All Americans come in he will be able to build a good all around team with stars coming in every year while developing other guys who will become very good players by there Jr and senior year. Other then last year i dont remember Cal having more then one player per season being a one and done

darius3miles
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Just wanted to point out that

Just wanted to point out that the late Pete Newell of the most respected big man camp in the country was a whopping 6'2" and never played in the NBA either. Wojo has coached at the camp, as well.

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Ok, whatever, I'm done with

Ok, whatever, I'm done with this argument. I don't think your point is unreasonable, but I think that it is really exaggerated. We are just going to have to agree to disagree here.

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Great coach not so great at

Great coach not so great at developing NBA talent.

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Brand was taken in the 1999

Brand was taken in the 1999 draft Wojo wasnt hired as a coach until the 1999-2000 season

Boozer was good enough to start and put up the numbers he did for any D-1 team in the country and maybe even to go pro straight out of high school. I refuse to believe Wojo had much to do with his NBA success.

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Coach's have alot to do with

Coach's have alot to do with a players success. They are the one's who work with the players individually while they are in college as well as have them work on things during the summer. That's why so many players work with coach's and trainers because they help them get better. if not then these players would all just work on there own all the time instead of hiring the Tim Grovers and going to Pete Newell's big man camp. No player int he world gets better on there own

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That is true about Brand, but

That is true about Brand, but I believe Wojo did have some sort of semi-assistant coach position on that team. For the third time tonight, I'm just going to have to call it quits on my arguments, I have a paper to write. My final thought is that Duke has had some big men improve a lot during their time at Duke and I don't think it's fair to give Wojo the blame for the "failures," if you don't want to give him credit for the successes.

Peace, for now

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Dedication is the name of the

Dedication is the name of the game, for sure. And with all that practice comes needing a coach or trainer to be there helping you.

Interestingly, KD is kind of flopped this year on the "Im going to be the best player in the league, score 35 a game" scale that he was unfairly billed at. Some are saying he was working too hard in the offseason, i dont know if i agree but its an intrigueing thought.

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Coach Cal makes them ready for the pro's

His guys don't really kill it in the pros's even Jason Williams was not showing any all star potential early.

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Jay Will was bad in Chity lol

Jay Will was bad in Chity lol i watched all of there games he had 1 monster trip dub vs the Nets that was it.

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Hahaha. How unreasonable is

Hahaha. How unreasonable is that? Wojo gets no credit for Boozer or Shelden Williams during their times at Duke, but gets all the blame for Casey Sanders and Lance Thomas. OK.

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Shelden Williams was a major

Shelden Williams was a major bust though.

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Jason Williams was

Jason Williams was inconsistent his Rookie year, like a lot of rookies, but he definitely showed some star potential. It's impossible to say that he would have been a bust. As a matter of fact, I tend to think he would have been a Stephon Marbury type player, who this site compared him to.

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In the NBA, yeah, but at Duke

In the NBA, yeah, but at Duke he was a 1st team All American, national defensive player of the year twice, and their all time leader in blocks and rebounds. That earned him the 5th pick in the draft. What else is Duke supposed to do for him?

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It's not that Coach K does a

It's not that Coach K does a bad job at developing his players for the NBA. I think it has to do more with the types of players he recruits. He doesn't look for the guys who are considered one and done NBA type talents. Not all McDonalds All-Americans are locks to go to the NBA, ex. Scheyer. That doesn't mean they can't be extremely successful in college. He looks for the guys who will stay for three or four years and be very successful at the college level regardless of their pro potential. That's not to say he doesn't get the big time NBA talents (Irving, Brand, Boozer, Williams, Maggette), I think he would rather go for the guys he thinks he will have for three or four years. A lot of the types of guys he recruitrs aren't going to be big time NBA prospects these days.

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Why do people keep saying

Why do people keep saying that?..Coach K recruits one and dones he just doesn't get alot of them. Its not like he looks at austin rivers,Micheal gilchrist,brandon knight, eric gordan, etc and Say's " I'm not gonna recruit them" he recruits them just like the other top coach's do. He sends them a recruitment letter and calls and if the recruit lets him he does a in house visit. Most of the time he doesn't get further then a call with the one and done because the recruit is not interested in going there. The guys he does get want to be one and dones but they dont get developed well enough to do that

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Casey sanders Joh

Casey sanders

Joh scheyer

Lance Thomas

Nate james

Steve Wojciechowski

Taymon Domzalski

Eric Boateng

Ricky Price

Greg Paulus

Sean Dockery

The only guys on here who had the athletic potential to become NBA players were James, Domzalski, Price, and Dockery. Domzalski had his potential cut short by injuries, so he doesn't really count. Dockery and Price may have been able to develop, but they were both fairly raw offensively when they first got to Duke. James was right on the cusp, he just never turned the corner.

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That's easy to say after

That's easy to say after watching them play but the fact remains that before they went to Duke they were NBA prospects and had NBA scouts attending there games( i dont know for a fact about Dom or sheyer though)

Also you dont have to be a great athlete or even a very good one to be a NBA prospect. Everyone keeps basing the potential of these guys on what they did while AT Duke instead of what they were BEFORE they went to Duke. There are more that were NBA prospects and Watched by NBA teams while also being All Americans who i didn't name. The players that made or did Well in the NBA were not the only ones who were prospects/players NBA teams thought could/would make it coming out of highschool

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Coach K's job is to make Duke

Coach K's job is to make Duke successful which he has done over the years, it's not to grrom players for NBA stardom, he may well go after one and done guys and he's got some gems in this year and coming in next year. But with Coach K it's his system and not about the players, he runs a tight team and no doubt from his military background doesn't take any prisioners with egos and attitude from his players so maybe this may sway some one and done guys away from Duke and Coach K may prefer the long term outlook so he moulds a team over years not starting from scratch with one and done guys each year.

Coach Cal has now almost become the premier "NBA grooming" coach especially for PG's in the last few years and his ethos is totally different to Coach K's. Both guys are top coaches but nobody could argue that Coach Cal's record is better than Coach K's.

Coach Cal had a brief spell in the NBA several years ago but his greatest success has been in the NCAA and Coach K has always rebuffed offers from NBA teams. I could never see Coach K giving the NBA a go this late in his career but Coach Cal may return to the NBA in the future perhaps and would be a good choice to replace Coach K as the US National Coach if Mike D'Antoni didn't have time to take the role on.

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Yea i already said Coach K is

Yea i already said Coach K is a good college coach. This topic is about Developing players for the NBA

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None of the guys you

None of the guys you mentioned were ever spoken of as "1 and done" players. Just because you have NBA scouts attending your games doesn't mean you're pro material. There have been plenty of guys who have gone into the draft straight out of high school only to become busts. They were far more talented than the guys you mentioned and had multiple NBA teams try to develop them, but it never worked out. Sometimes it just isn't meant to be.

There isn't a coach in the world that could've turned Wojo or Paulus into NBA players.

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The Annual Red Herring Thread From A Duke Hater

Right on time, dude.

But, guess what? Duke is still gonna destroy UNC and win the title.

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