[What The DevilParticipant]

 I was reading through some articles and one on realgm was talking about a 45 million dollar hard cap. What exactly does that mean? 45 million is the most a team can have on payroll? If so what happens to teams over cap?

[surveParticipant]

Hard cap means there is little flexibility and only under special circumstances can a team exceed its cap.   This will level the playing field in the owners eyes…particularly if they are in smaller markets.

[surveParticipant]

Hard cap means there is little flexibility and only under special circumstances can a team exceed its cap.   This will level the playing field in the owners eyes…particularly if they are in smaller markets.

[What The DevilParticipant]

So like…Miami would be screwed because chances are they would have to get rid of a superstar? What about teams like Orlando that are vastly over the cap? Do they get to cut contracts for free?

[What The DevilParticipant]

So like…Miami would be screwed because chances are they would have to get rid of a superstar? What about teams like Orlando that are vastly over the cap? Do they get to cut contracts for free?

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

 Players would have to take pay cuts for this to be possible.  My question is how does the salary cap interpret non-guaranteed money?

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

 Players would have to take pay cuts for this to be possible.  My question is how does the salary cap interpret non-guaranteed money?

[CalipariParticipant]

I guess we can cross off the 2011-2012 NBA Schedule because the owners want millions of dollars in insurance against their own stupidity in personnel moves. Billionaires fighting millionaires, kind of funny huh? Oh wait no it isn’t.

[CalipariParticipant]

I guess we can cross off the 2011-2012 NBA Schedule because the owners want millions of dollars in insurance against their own stupidity in personnel moves. Billionaires fighting millionaires, kind of funny huh? Oh wait no it isn’t.

[surveParticipant]

good questions and probably why this CBA hasnt been resolved yet.  It mainly applies to re-signing, like if someone is a fixture, so if thats true, the Big 3 would be the last to go.  Good question about teams like Orlando, not sure on that one.

[surveParticipant]

good questions and probably why this CBA hasnt been resolved yet.  It mainly applies to re-signing, like if someone is a fixture, so if thats true, the Big 3 would be the last to go.  Good question about teams like Orlando, not sure on that one.

[What The DevilParticipant]

 Will they also roll back the length of contracts? Because this could be a blessing for teams like Orlando and possibly Atlanta.

[What The DevilParticipant]

 Will they also roll back the length of contracts? Because this could be a blessing for teams like Orlando and possibly Atlanta.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

A few things:

• Players contracts might be re-structured
• There might be an institution of a "franchise tag", much like the NFL, that would allow you to exceed the cap for a specific player. The problem NBA players have with this is that being "tagged" in the NFL usually means a single year. Hence, players would not have long term security, and if they did than I am sure owners would have a problem with it.
• There would more than likely be an "amnesty clause", which means that a team would be able to pay-off a bad contract without a penalty against the cap. This would helps teams get under.
• Definitely would not be a thing that happens ASAP. Which means, they would have a plan as to when it would be officially instituted and for when teams have to be under the hard cap by.

That being said, I think this total is a complete low ball, and that players will not accept this. They say they are pulling the "Flex Cap" off of the table as of July 1, but I bet that will eventually be the system. The agents, owners and players all have gotten into a situation where 6 million dollars is the average salary of a player in the NBA. They thought that this cap would be saving them money, but they did not see the potential after shock. Now that the players are fine with it, the few teams making money are not willing to bail out the other ones losing it. We will see what happens, but Hard Cap would not be immediate and probably take a couple of years to be fully instituted.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

A few things:

• Players contracts might be re-structured
• There might be an institution of a "franchise tag", much like the NFL, that would allow you to exceed the cap for a specific player. The problem NBA players have with this is that being "tagged" in the NFL usually means a single year. Hence, players would not have long term security, and if they did than I am sure owners would have a problem with it.
• There would more than likely be an "amnesty clause", which means that a team would be able to pay-off a bad contract without a penalty against the cap. This would helps teams get under.
• Definitely would not be a thing that happens ASAP. Which means, they would have a plan as to when it would be officially instituted and for when teams have to be under the hard cap by.

That being said, I think this total is a complete low ball, and that players will not accept this. They say they are pulling the "Flex Cap" off of the table as of July 1, but I bet that will eventually be the system. The agents, owners and players all have gotten into a situation where 6 million dollars is the average salary of a player in the NBA. They thought that this cap would be saving them money, but they did not see the potential after shock. Now that the players are fine with it, the few teams making money are not willing to bail out the other ones losing it. We will see what happens, but Hard Cap would not be immediate and probably take a couple of years to be fully instituted.

[NYK2010Participant]

45 million hard cap the doubtful the players go for that.

45 million soft cap who knows maybe it comes to that.

[NYK2010Participant]

45 million hard cap the doubtful the players go for that.

45 million soft cap who knows maybe it comes to that.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 If there is a $45 million hard cap, the NBA won’t be able to compete with the Euroleagues for a lot of the talent. There will also never be a true hard cap because you know every team would end up bumping up against it and then how would they sign their rookie class? How would you do any trades? I guarantee you that if the next D. Rose is coming out of school and they are only getting offered $2 million to join the NBA, then some foreign team is going to offer a lot more.

Also 45 is a crazy low cap for teams like the Knicks who brought in $226 million in revenue last year. Sizing the entire league based on the poorest teams doesn’t make sense. 

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 If there is a $45 million hard cap, the NBA won’t be able to compete with the Euroleagues for a lot of the talent. There will also never be a true hard cap because you know every team would end up bumping up against it and then how would they sign their rookie class? How would you do any trades? I guarantee you that if the next D. Rose is coming out of school and they are only getting offered $2 million to join the NBA, then some foreign team is going to offer a lot more.

Also 45 is a crazy low cap for teams like the Knicks who brought in $226 million in revenue last year. Sizing the entire league based on the poorest teams doesn’t make sense. 

[andxxxParticipant]

 I’ve heard 65 million, 45 million seems too small.  I also wonder if big and small market teams are all on the same page when it comes to the issues.  I have trouble believing some owners don’t disagree with other owners.

[andxxxParticipant]

 I’ve heard 65 million, 45 million seems too small.  I also wonder if big and small market teams are all on the same page when it comes to the issues.  I have trouble believing some owners don’t disagree with other owners.

[andxxxParticipant]

 Interesting article with different point of view on nba lockout http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/05/breaking-down-the-cba/

[andxxxParticipant]

 Interesting article with different point of view on nba lockout http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/05/breaking-down-the-cba/

[joecheck88Participant]

A contract is a contract right, so the players have to get paid that money regardless. For example, Lebron makes like 18mil(a guess) and the new cba states a maz player cant make mre than 11 per year. Lebron would count as 11mil towards the cap but would still get paid his 18. Is that right?

45mil hard cap would be too low. If they have a hard cap, it should be about 60mil. and the minimum should be 45mil, imo.

[joecheck88Participant]

A contract is a contract right, so the players have to get paid that money regardless. For example, Lebron makes like 18mil(a guess) and the new cba states a maz player cant make mre than 11 per year. Lebron would count as 11mil towards the cap but would still get paid his 18. Is that right?

45mil hard cap would be too low. If they have a hard cap, it should be about 60mil. and the minimum should be 45mil, imo.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 I saw an estimate that Lebron was "worth" $40 million a year if you paid him based on wins produced over other players. So he is bargain since the CBA keeps him capped at $20 million. Same article said Wade was worth $30 million and Bosh worth $20 million. But that was all based on 2010 stats which of course Bosh couldn’t reproduce as the third wheel of the Miami Heat. 

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 I saw an estimate that Lebron was "worth" $40 million a year if you paid him based on wins produced over other players. So he is bargain since the CBA keeps him capped at $20 million. Same article said Wade was worth $30 million and Bosh worth $20 million. But that was all based on 2010 stats which of course Bosh couldn’t reproduce as the third wheel of the Miami Heat. 

[aamir543Participant]

I remember 3 years ago that it was rumored that Lebron was offered about 50 million to go play overseas. It was probably false, but think about it, lets say somone like Stephen Jackson, get offered around 5-6 million for only one year when his current contract is up and that too to be a 5th or maybe even 6th option on a contender. Well, what if a European team offers him 3 years 20 million and the go to option. Slowly slowly I believe more players will go overseas if a 45 million dollar hard cap is indeed installed. A much better option is a 45 million dollar soft cap, with the luxary cap being at around 65.

[aamir543Participant]

I remember 3 years ago that it was rumored that Lebron was offered about 50 million to go play overseas. It was probably false, but think about it, lets say somone like Stephen Jackson, get offered around 5-6 million for only one year when his current contract is up and that too to be a 5th or maybe even 6th option on a contender. Well, what if a European team offers him 3 years 20 million and the go to option. Slowly slowly I believe more players will go overseas if a 45 million dollar hard cap is indeed installed. A much better option is a 45 million dollar soft cap, with the luxary cap being at around 65.

[surveParticipant]

45 mil does seem too small, but you have to think of it this way, the smaller the cap the more parity with teams.  This is why the owners are suggesting a cap that low in the first place.  That cap size puts EVERYBODY in the game, no matter how small the market.  I remember how doubtful it was looking for the Griz to re-sign Rudy G.  For what players like him are asking its really difficult in some markets if revenue is not there, unless this is a BIG NAME player.

[surveParticipant]

45 mil does seem too small, but you have to think of it this way, the smaller the cap the more parity with teams.  This is why the owners are suggesting a cap that low in the first place.  That cap size puts EVERYBODY in the game, no matter how small the market.  I remember how doubtful it was looking for the Griz to re-sign Rudy G.  For what players like him are asking its really difficult in some markets if revenue is not there, unless this is a BIG NAME player.

[surveParticipant]

I think there has to be some sort of hard cap, 45 mil is def too low but you dont want to go too high either.   I am being subjective here, but feel free to agree/disagree or add to anything I have noted.

With a hard cap:

• the league will be more competitive
• Teams wont be able to overload with talent, not unless they want to be extremely top heavy in talent
• Teams will have a better chance to re-sign players once their rookie contracts are up
• Teams in smaller markets will benefit (whether that helps the league overall is debatable)
• Teams will be forced to get better through the draft
• Teams wont have the luxury of dumping off an exorbant contract for some draft picks when they get tired of a player (in other words, GM’s have to be more precise and live longer with the decisions they make)
• If a rookie out-plays his contract (ala Wes Matthews) he can go to a real contender instead of going to a suck-azz squad or fringe contender because thats where he will get the most money.

[surveParticipant]

I think there has to be some sort of hard cap, 45 mil is def too low but you dont want to go too high either.   I am being subjective here, but feel free to agree/disagree or add to anything I have noted.

With a hard cap:

• the league will be more competitive
• Teams wont be able to overload with talent, not unless they want to be extremely top heavy in talent
• Teams will have a better chance to re-sign players once their rookie contracts are up
• Teams in smaller markets will benefit (whether that helps the league overall is debatable)
• Teams will be forced to get better through the draft
• Teams wont have the luxury of dumping off an exorbant contract for some draft picks when they get tired of a player (in other words, GM’s have to be more precise and live longer with the decisions they make)
• If a rookie out-plays his contract (ala Wes Matthews) he can go to a real contender instead of going to a suck-azz squad or fringe contender because thats where he will get the most money.

[bigdaddybluesmanParticipant]

A hard cap of 45 million is not enough to build a team. Players from overseas would have no incentive to come here. They would make the same if not more with the teams they are with. That would dilute the talent pool in the NBA. Also that would mean many players would retire sooner and move on if they could not get that last contract to make a nice paycheck before they retire. That would hurt a lot of teams, some of those old veterans came through for them during the playoffs throughout history.

Owners that have the money will never agree to it, I know if I were an owner who had the money to build a winner I would not want some other owner without the money tell me I can’t spend it to make my team a champion. Just ask Cuban what he thinks of a hard cap.

It would really hurt the NBA. As it is I think there are too many teams and too many teams run poorly. A hard cap would really make things worse not better. In the long run by them trying to make money they will ruin the sport. History shows that buying a sports team is like buying an extra home or two, you don’t need them but it’s cool to own them. Trying to make a lot of money by owning a sports team has never happened, it’s a LUXURY once you are a multi millionaire not a way to become a millionaire.

[bigdaddybluesmanParticipant]

A hard cap of 45 million is not enough to build a team. Players from overseas would have no incentive to come here. They would make the same if not more with the teams they are with. That would dilute the talent pool in the NBA. Also that would mean many players would retire sooner and move on if they could not get that last contract to make a nice paycheck before they retire. That would hurt a lot of teams, some of those old veterans came through for them during the playoffs throughout history.

Owners that have the money will never agree to it, I know if I were an owner who had the money to build a winner I would not want some other owner without the money tell me I can’t spend it to make my team a champion. Just ask Cuban what he thinks of a hard cap.

It would really hurt the NBA. As it is I think there are too many teams and too many teams run poorly. A hard cap would really make things worse not better. In the long run by them trying to make money they will ruin the sport. History shows that buying a sports team is like buying an extra home or two, you don’t need them but it’s cool to own them. Trying to make a lot of money by owning a sports team has never happened, it’s a LUXURY once you are a multi millionaire not a way to become a millionaire.

[apb540Participant]

I like what joecheck88 had to say about this.  Spot on. 

[apb540Participant]

I like what joecheck88 had to say about this.  Spot on. 

[NYK2010Participant]

Lebron didn’t sign for 18 mill, he signed for less.

60 mill hard cap still wouldn’t work thats around where the softcap is now.

10 teams hit 60 mill or more last year also a minimum of 45 that makes no sense.

Only 8 teams were below 45 mill last year.

A hard cap around 70-75 makes more sense and lower the cap where the luxury tax hits.

The owners are getting a little crazy with the 45 million number especially with so many of the bad contracts expiring.  They signed off on the big contracts and now want a ridiculously low hard cap.

The Lakers had a payroll of 91 mill last year so they’d have to move more than half the team’s salary to get under the hard cap.

 

[NYK2010Participant]

Lebron didn’t sign for 18 mill, he signed for less.

60 mill hard cap still wouldn’t work thats around where the softcap is now.

10 teams hit 60 mill or more last year also a minimum of 45 that makes no sense.

Only 8 teams were below 45 mill last year.

A hard cap around 70-75 makes more sense and lower the cap where the luxury tax hits.

The owners are getting a little crazy with the 45 million number especially with so many of the bad contracts expiring.  They signed off on the big contracts and now want a ridiculously low hard cap.

The Lakers had a payroll of 91 mill last year so they’d have to move more than half the team’s salary to get under the hard cap.

 

[NYK2010Participant]

Gonna be a long offseason and maybe season waiting on them to agree to a new CBA

[NYK2010Participant]

Gonna be a long offseason and maybe season waiting on them to agree to a new CBA

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