Gut feeling on major free agents...
Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami.
Joe Johnson and Amare Stoudemire in New York.
LeBron James and Carlos Boozer in Chicago.
Cleveland, Toronto, Atlanta, Phoenix and Utah get screwed.
They didn't get screwed, they didn't make good enough moves.
They are willing to pay LeBron more then any other team. How can you do more then that? They gave him a good cast of players too ball with. I'm at a complete loss to think what more Cleveland could have done to hold on to LeBron.
umm look at there roster..... i hate lebron w/ a passion but im not stupid enough to say he has had a good supporting cast.... he has little help and as the old saying goes regarding mo williams...... mo money, mo problems :)
His team sucked
His "team" had the best regular season record in the NBA. It was LeBron who played like &$#%#&@! against the Celtics that cost the Cavs in the second round. You take Derrick Rose off the Bulls and LeBron off the Cavs, and I bet Cleveland wins a 7 game series against Chicago. Jordan didn't quit on the Bulls, and other then Pippen who did he have that was an all-star...Horace Grant? Dennis Rodman? If LeBron leaves the Cavs it's because he knows he's not good enough to get the job done himself, without the help of a couple of his all star buddies. That's the real truth. He loses my respect if he leaves Cleveland. That organization has kissed his ass since he walked in the door.
Jordan Had Rodman who was the best rebounder, and defender in the league, Harper who was a 20 point scorer, and great defender before he went to chicago, stupid to say he didnt have much help, Lebrons teammates are pretty bad.
If you think LeBron had bad teammates last year. That team was loaded. Harper was past his prime by the time he joined Chicago...go ahead, go back and compare any Bulls championship roster with what LeBron had to work with last year. It's not that huge of a difference. The one advantage the Bulls had was Phil Jackson. So is Cleveland going to be left in LeBron's dust because they didn't have a coach of Phil Jackson's caliber at the helm? If so, that's just not right. It's not good for the league. Even Stern wants LeBron to stay in Cleveland.
Does LeBron have the best supporting cast? No. However, the Cavs had the best record in the NBA two seasons in a row. You don't attain the best record in the NBA two years in a row without having a good enough supporting cast.
For why LeBron always chokes in the playoffs. Jordan kept battling Detroit, until he finally got over the hump. LeBron is just going to take the easy way out...and bolt. If he does, I wish him and his new team, nothing but the worst. If he does that, he's a dog in my book.
the cavs have done everything in their power to get lebron a good supporting cast. They got mo williams and had the best regular season record, what happened? Lebron choked. Next year got anthony parker, jamioro moon in the off season, then got antawn jamison in a trade, what happened? Lebron choked. Yes maybe jordan had some really good help but the difference between jordan and lebron, jordan used his help in the playoffs. lebron thinks once he gets into the playoffs, he can score at will and he will win.
I don't know... You have to look at it from every angle.
LeBron is loyal. There's no doubt he loves Ohio. However, like KG said, loyalty takes away your youth. The last thing LeBron wants to do is wake up one day as a 30 year old with his youth long behind him.
Jordan kept battling Detroit, BUT... He didn't do it alone. He had another superstar caliber player in Pippen and a great coach in Phil Jackson. He grew with those two. The Bulls were able to build a very good system and supporting cast around those three. I don't think Cleveland has done that with LeBron.
Which had the best regular season record in the league, and homecourt advantage throughout the entire playoffs, there is no reason he shouldn't have at the very least taken that team to the Finals. Beating the Lakers may have been a tough chore, but no reason his team shouldn't have at least won the Eastern Conference.
I don't know...maybe James just isn't all that. Michael and Kobe had "IT" but maybe LeBron doesn't. Those guys stayed loyal to the teams that drafted them, and made good use of there supporting casts. LeBron seemed like his head was somewhere else in the playoffs. Maybe it was. I don't buy this "youth" thing. KG played well into his thirties with Minnesota and still managed to get a title before his career ended.
Lmao the Cavs "supporting cast" is HORRIBLE. Without Lebron that is one of the worst teams in the NBA. Mo Williams has always been a loser on bad teams putting up decent numbers he is not a "number 2" guy. Moon, Parker, Gibson - are all borderline NBA players and really made a name for themselves because of Lebron, very replaceable and unimpressive bench. Shaq and Big Z are both old and stiff, sure they were good 5 years ago, but they are on their last legs. Varejao is a glorified Amundson but gets all the love again due to Lebron. Don't get me started how bad Jamison was. That roster had one prospect under the age of 25 that had any potential....JJ Hickson and he isn't even good. He has zero jumpshot and also makes a living off open dunks due to Lebron, People don't realize how Lebron opens up the floor and makes mediocre players seem decent. He should leave since that team is only going to get worse, they have no young talent, no real foundation and a bunch of one dimensional d-league talent shooters to go along with two stiffs that add up to almost 80 years old. Once he does leave you will realize how bad this team really is because chances are it will have the most lottery balls next summer.
Stop this if he wants to win he will stay garbage....fact is all 5-6 teams that have enough cap space to sign him put him in a MUCH better position going forward. If he stays in Cleveland he will continue to carry them to 50-60 win seasons only to lose in the playoffs. With the shake up coming this summer, there will be very dominant teams built and the Cavs will continue to slide even further from title contention.
Ok they played good during the season, but in the postseason they all suck.
All Delonte does is sleep with people's moms
When Mo makes one 3 he runs down the court and shoots another. Everytime.
Shaq can't do anything anymore.
Jamison didn't do anything he did for the Wizards
Anthony Parker isn't that good
Jamario is alright
Varejao is good for hustle. That's about it
Big Z is just...big.
So no. I wouldn't consider that "good". Nothing compared to the Celtics, Lakers, and Magic's supporting casts.
Scottie Pippen is one of the top 50 ALL TIME players in the history of the nba. Shaq is a top 25 player all time. Pau Gasol is a top 15 player in the NBA currently. Phil Jackson, arguably the best coach in NBA history, coached all 11 of their combined total titles. LeBron's best sidekick has been either Mo Williams who made Rajon Rondo look like Magic Johnson, A 350+ 37 year old Shaq, or Antawn Jamison for 3 months. None of those players would be anything close to Kobe or MJ's supporting cast. A player can't win a title by themselves no matter how good he is. So to say that it is selfish or anything of the sort to want to leave Cleveland who wont have cap space to sign a good player for years is so dumb.
Which team do you think would be better?
SG- WIlson Chandler
PF- Chris Bosh
C- Free agent signing for the midlevel exception
PG- Mo Will
SG- Anthony Parker
C- Big Z or Hickson
I would much rather play for the first team. I think that Gallinari is better than any player that LeBron has played with. The only reason Mo Williams could ever be considered an all-star is because he played with LeBron. Why would you throw away your whole career just because your hometown team drafted you?
I was never on the cavs bandwagon but they did have a good team... Good enuff to win 60 games they had a good squad but saying they were never good is freakn hypocritical I know most of us have said atleast once they might just win it when they got (filler) and to go now and say they didn't do enuff is BS
Ok lets assume he is "loyal" and other teams do the moves that are expected (some hypotheticals)...he will have to play against:
some other signing
Varejao. (maybe shaq or z but idn)
Very possible that all 6 teams might be better than the Cavs.
It's how you do it, and under what conditions. I admire Wade for staying with Miami during both the good times and bad times. He has never quit on the team that drafted him. He hasn't had good supporting casts the last few years, but he'll stick around, and his loyalty will probably be rewarded. Shaq was not in his prime when D-Wade won his title in Miami. That supporting cast he had that season wasn't any better then the one Lebron has now in Cleveland. Alot of old vets on their last legs. Your telling me if Phil Jackson didn't come to Cleveland to coach next season, that he wouldn't at the very least, get that team to the finals as it's presently put together? I bet he would. Boston is getting older by the day, and Stan Van Gundy won't make Dwight Howard the focus of the offense. You give the Cavs a top notch coach, and I bet they win a title. I think the talent is already in place. It just needs direction, and a little fine tuning.
Is going to be sixth best in the conference. LeBron and 11 others players, all named Granville Waiters could easily be top three in the conference.
So you just contradicted yourself saying how his supporting cast was solid, while he would be top 3 in that Eastern Conference with scrubs. Fact is all 6 of those teams are easily capable of knocking those Cavs out of the playoffs. he used to have to go through 1-2 tough eastern conference teams in the playoffs, but if other players go where they are supposed to the East is going to be stacked and no more clear paths to the conference finals.
Never said all 6 would be better, but all have the ability too.
Other teams are on the rise like the Wizards and Sixers, and Lebron wont be able to storm through the East all year by himself like he used to.
I haven't posted till' now because reading this thread has been a very good read and I think you guys are bringing up some excellent points. Like above, I agree on the loyalty part annd I think he should stay BUT I don't think you can compare LeBrons situation with Wades for many reason. For one, Wade won when he was very young and hadn't went throught much, if any disappointment in his proir years in terms of winning. LeBron has had huge expectations since he lead that bum squad to the finals and has come up short since. He has suffered some heart crushing losses. Thus it makes it easier for him to want to leave, because he wants to win(Even though Winning in Cle. would be a much more satisfying and greater accomplishment). And also, Wades team was far better. Shaq was in his later years but he was still in the end of his prime, this cleveland Shaq is just a bad basketball player now, simply
He banged his mom....
Eventually the team would find the right combination of players to get them over the top. Jamison is a much better player then what he showed after coming to Cleveland last season. This team is really close. It's not like their miles away from being a champion. I think LeBron should sign a short team deal with the Cavs, and if by the end of that time they still haven't won a title, then resign somewhere else. I just think he's giving up on the Cavs too early. I'm not sold if he goes to Chicago he wins a title. I think some of the other top free agents are going to sign in Miami and New York, and he would be lucky to be joined by one from a group of Bosh, Boozer, or Stoudemire if he goes to the Windy City. The grass always seems greener until you get there. If the Cavs bring in a coach that decides to speed up the tempo, and completely unleash some of those guys, the team might really take off.
But they really are not that close, they don't have any real winners on the team. Mo and Jamison do ok through the regular season but choke in the playoffs (Jamison has never been out of the 2nd round). Shaq has maybe 1 season left and it won't be of any real impact, Z is gone so now the center position looks like Varejao. At the 2 they have an overrated spot up shooter. The only bright spot on the roster is JJ Hickson, everyone else is either in their prime and won't get better or is past their prime and is getting worse. Also while this team isn't good enought they have no way to fix it. If Lebron is to stay they will always have very low draft picks, also all the players value's are low because they are old, inconsistent, or sleeps with his teammate's moms. No where to go but down.
Can't agree about Lebron staying in Cleveland at all, the team has gone as far as they can. BTW anyone who think Lebron choked against the Magic in 09 is an idiot, what game were you watching. Also this year esp. Game 5 when you get blown out by 20-30 pts thats not choking thats not showing up. The Cavs roster isn't getting any younger, at Center you have two aging former stars, at PF a veteran who can score but doesn't stop any elite player and an overrated J.J. Hickson who isn't an offensive force. At SG they have a 35 year old vet who is a nice player but no where near an All Star. At PG Mo Williams though a very good PG he is more of a shooting PG, one the strengths of the team is depth but they are lacking a difference maker that can score in bunches. They do have Leon Powe, Anderson Varajeo, Delonte West, J.J. Hickson. With no real cap room or draft picks, they have lil chance of improving the roster. They have a bunch of small expirings that could be used as trade bait but no up and coming young players to acquire a star player. Its time to move on the system hasn't worked after a rebuilding season this year they will shed 5 more contracts and should have a decent mid round pick and cap room as well. The following year Jamison and Moon will be up and the Cavs will have some more cap space.
I feel like there is a huge problem with the way this entire discussion has gone about. Why is it "Lebron needs to get his title" type of attitude. There is no "the Cleveland Cavaliers need to get the title" its all about Lebron. Thats why I hate this enitre topic. Its all about Lebron.
His style of play will not get him an NBA championship. period.
He is as talented as anybody, and he is nearly unstoppable, but its impossible to build a team around him, because every player would have to "play off of him" rather then play with him. Its always going to be Lebron and company rather then a team. Its impossible to build a team that way. Its hard to play off a guy all the time. Isnt it odd that Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison were both really solid players before they went to Cleveland. Anthony Parker was a double figure scorer, so was Delonte West. In Cleveland they have to play off of James. Guys can never get in a rythm and just play basketball. They have to focus on playing off a guy. Ever watch Clevelands ball movement, its horrendous. Lebron James is a ball stopper. And it doesnt matter what team he goes to, if he is a ball stopper, the teams he is on wont win balls.
Lol at the guy who thinks the Nets by simply signing Rudy Gay will be a top 3 team in the East.
Whats the deal with people thinking all of these players are moving and none of them are gong to resign...that much movement never happens. And not every single team is going to get 2 max guys. Not every team can completely overhaul their roster,