I think this would be the best move for both teams. D'Antoni gets his version of Steve Nash to run the offense, and the Grizzlies, who don't need Rubio, can move to 8, draft Earl Clark (I think he's a great fit) and stockpile a couple picks. What do you guys think?
Besides #8 what could the Knicks offer to the Grizzlies?
They have nothing. Not even next year's pick (To Utah).
But seriously they have no first rounder next year?
WTF. I thought I was a genius.
i think memphis will end up trading with portland they wanted outlaw last year blazers will trade bayless and outlaw pakage with the 23 pick for the number 2 pick they draft rubio
some of their draft picks probablys there first rounder. Bayless and Outlaw.
Why does Memphis want outlaw they have Rudy Gay? They need a PF or PG
I'm a knicks fan so of course I'd love it if they could trade up, but that's probably not gonna happen. They do have a ton of expiring contracts to work with, but memphis isn't going for any big FAs in 2010. I think rubio would be a good fit in memphis anyway. Mayo isn't a pure PG, and I think he'd flourish at the 2 with rubio running the point.
You said Mayo could flourish at the 2 with Rubio at the point. When you have the number two overall pick, you better be damn sure youre getting a sure thing or close to it. I understand that no drafts are "safe", especially this one, but it comes down to making the safest, smartest decision. To me, Rubio is a luxury item for the Grizzlies. If the Grizz don't trade, they have to take Jordan Hill. Thabeet is a project and will not make an immediate impact to any team in his rookie year, plus, he might be an offensive liability his whole career. He was outplayed in games where he played teams with good post defense. That makes me worry a bit about Thabeet. But, when it's all said and done, the Clips will find a way to screw up the number one pick (drafting Taylor Griffin or even Stewie Griffin over Blake)
that trade makes no sense..why would the grizz trade for outlaw when they have gay at the three?..and to coolkids...lol at the taylor griffin or stewie griffin over blake...the sad part about it is they might just do that..lol
the knicks do have players that memphis would deff want. they r in dieing need of a pf and david lee would fit in perfect there. david lee and the #8 for the #2, just got to make the money match with the raise lee's going to get and they got a real good trade on both sides.
ok. they have darrell arthur and hakim warrick at the 4. plus darko who can play some there. they have mike conley and mike wilks at the point. they need a point guard more and it's not even close (tho' no one has to be impressed with their power forward corps.) unless anyone thinks mike conley is really the pg to lead them to the promised land. or the play-offs. or semi-respectability. which he ain't. conley might fit well on an established squad like the hawks; he can make a good squad better in the jameer nelson sense, just being a solid all around guy who won't lose games for you. but on a team with no leaders, no identity, no chance, and two guys (gay and mayo) already fighting over the ball, conley is not the answer.
enter ricky rubio. this is a dude who already doesn't care about scoring and makes his teammates better. he's 18 and has already played and played well against the best in the world. he has innate feel for the game and his unselfishness is the kind that will get dudes killing to play with him. he's also familiar with olympic teammate marc gasol and will help his development which is crucial to the future of the grizz. it's tough to throw out comparisons with rubio. but pure points do not come along every day. yeah, he has a shaky jumper. but he's got great size, is an underrated finisher, and might just be the next jason kidd (who STILL has his shaky jumper but has had a pretty nice career.)
the other thing is i'm not a big fan of deals where you can sign the guy outright. david lee is a restricted fa. so is paul millsap. the grizz can throw some money at 'em and fill up the four correctly AND keep their number 2 pick. doesn't that make a heckuva lot more sense? plus where the draft is lacking in starting quality fours, the free agent market is not. boozer is unrestricted. so is lamar odom. so are birdman, rasheed wallace (obviously not a good fit in memphis but would make the grizz relevant), shawn marion, anderson varajao, drew gooden and guys like leon powe, big baby, brandon bass, and chris wilcox. all those guys will upgrade the grizz at the four. and all of them will find the grizz more attractive with a point who will get them the ball.
"ok. they have darrell arthur and hakim warrick at the 4. plus darko who can play some there. they have mike conley and mike wilks at the point. they need a point guard more and it's not even close (tho' no one has to be impressed with their power forward corps.) unless anyone thinks mike conley is really the pg to lead them to the promised land. or the play-offs. or semi-respectability. which he ain't. conley might fit well on an established squad like the hawks; he can make a good squad better in the jameer nelson sense, just being a solid all around guy who won't lose games for you. but on a team with no leaders, no identity, no chance, and two guys (gay and mayo) already fighting over the ball, conley is not the answer.
the other thing is i'm not a big fan of deals where you can sign the guy outright. david lee is a restricted fa. so is paul millsap. the grizz can throw some money at 'em and fill up the four correctly AND keep their number 2 pick. doesn't that make a heckuva lot more sense? plus where the draft is lacking in starting quality fours, the free agent market is not. boozer is unrestricted. so is lamar odom. so are birdman, rasheed wallace (obviously not a good fit in memphis but would make the grizz relevant), shawn marion, anderson varajao, drew gooden and guys like leon powe, big baby, brandon bass, and chris wilcox. all those guys will upgrade the grizz at the four. and all of them will find the grizz more attractive with a point who will get them the ball."
You did make some valid arguments with your post but it baffles me why you questioned Mike Conley's ability to lead Memphis to the promised land but then supported their surplus of mediocre power forwards (Arthur, Warrick, Milicic). In fact you said PG is of greater need to them than PF which is completely insane. Conley showed that with the proper confidence from the coaching staff and freedom to play without restrictions he could be an adequate leader and produce and he will only improve. The main knock on his game coming out of college was his ability to shoot from the perimeter and he markedly improved (from 33% to 40.6%) in that area after just one year in the league. He's a little undersized although makes up for it with speed and quickness and already developing some good chemistry with their current core of players. If you bring in Ricky Rubio that might very well retard the team's progress as a whole having to adjust to a brand new playmaker and having to learn his tendencies and getting comfortable with the particular spots he prefers to find them on the floor. I have no doubt the transition to the NBA will be a smooth one for Rubio regardless of where he lands at least regarding his ability to find others. It just depends on if the team he goes to will be able to adjust as quickly. His offensive game might take a little time but his passing and court vision are NBA ready. While Conley doesn't possess Rubio's innate ability to find teammates very few point guards do but in his prime he likens to a Tony Parker type rather than a Steve Nash type which Rubio does. All in all, the inevitable Steve Nash comparisions provide a glimpse of how truly special Rubio can become and while Rubio is hands down a better prospect than Conley (better size, court vision and awareness, penetrating ability, etc.) Conley is more than adequate and is a better player than you give him credit for.
As for Arthur, Warrick, and Milicic, none of them are starting caliber power forwards on half the teams in the NBA if not the majority let alone contenders. They make for some decent reserves but nothing more. If you look at the big picture and consider what it would take for the Grizzlies to become relevant none of those guys should be in the equation and definitely not in a starting capacity. David Lee on the other hand, if acquired in some sort of package for the 2nd overall pick, would fill that void. He's got tremendous work ethic runs the floor extremely well which leaves no doubt he'd fit into Lionell Hollins uptempo scheme and believe it or not is still developing on the offensive end despite averaging a career high 16 ppg last season. He would make an ideal fit and besides if you are going to pass on trading for a restricted free agent there is no guarantee that you would get the guy outright it just means an offer sheet tender but I completely agree with the "Why trade valuable assets when you could potentially land him in free agency?" school of thought. Well here's a thought. Memphis is one of the least favorable free agent destinations so why would any of the aforementioned players sign there since they are still a work in progress and half the players you mentioned are probably more interested in vying for a championship with a contending team, especially if they've already had a taste of playoffs which nearly every one of them has.
David Lee, however, has been in a rebuilding situation with the Knicks for his entire career so what's another year or two before the Grizzlies are ready to compete? Memphis was going to trade their pick for Lee last year but opted to trade the pick (Kevin Love) plus Mike Miller for O.J. Mayo instead. So they clearly have interest in Lee it's just a matter of how they are going to lure him away. Plus there's nothing yet to support that he won't re-sign with the Knicks although highly unlikely given their predicament (shedding salary for 2010). Besides the Knicks are very likely to exhaust all the possible scenarios of utilizing Lee and Robinson in a sign-and-trade as they are their only true assets if for nothing else than to get back in the draft next year and add future picks beyond that. It would be extremely disappointing if Donnie Walsh couldn't at least do that which I have no doubt that he can. Also, ask yourself why Orlando would execute a sign-and-trade with Seattle for Rashard Lewis when chances are they could've signed him outright and retained some assets in the process. Thing is it just isn't as easy as it seems and teams want to ensure that they obtain the player they covet so they often times are willing to go the extra mile. Do the Grizzlies covet Lee that much? Guess we'll know if they target him via sign-and-trade. Reflecting back, Seattle was in the same predicament as the Knicks are now in that they were engaged in a rebuilding process with very few assets and had to ultimately make the most of whatever ones they did have (Lewis and Allen) that didn't factor in long term.
As far as the aforementioned free agent options at power forward, Paul Millsap would make for a nice fit but the Jazz have already stated publicly they are prepared to exceed the luxury tax in order to retain him which leads me to believe he's not going to be on the open market for the Grizzlies to even have a chance. Boozer can opt out which he has openly stated that he will do but if my memory serves me correctly he's a hypocrite when the time comes for monetary gains and I personally don't think he's going to walk away from $12.6 million considering that in these troubled economic times he might be best served finishing out his current deal and waiting until next year to hit the open market when the economy should rebound some and there will be more teams in the mix. Not to mention it will most likely be his last contract as a prime time player considering he'll be 28 at the start of next season, so postponing free agency one more year would enable him to squeeze out as much money as possible. You can bet he likes the sound of that. Odom probably wants nothing to do with a rebuilding team and is at best a complementary player. He lacks the ideal intensity and mentality to be a go-to guy. Birdman is not starting material. Sheed is too old and will cost too much for a player on the decline (seeking no less than $8 million), besides he's not a long-term solution so he'll be finished when they actually do become relevant, contrary to what you said about him being the reason they become relevant. Marion is talented but also best in a complementary role such as a third option (Phoenix) as evident by his inability to thrive as a second option (Miami) when they desperately needed one. Varejao is not starting material for a contender might as well stick with the current corps if that's the case. He's no solution. Gooden is washed up too injury prone and definitely not going to take them to the promised land. He's also not a long-term solution. Leon Powe, Glen "Big Baby" Davis, Brandon Bass, and Chris Wilcox are quality reserves but nothing more. So NOT all of those guys would be an upgrade. But the real question becomes do they want a mere upgrade or a standout?
In my opinion, David Lee's work ethic is unquestioned, he's still very young (turned 26 less than a month ago), probably better and more of a sure thing than any player they would be selecting with the 2nd overall (excluding Rubio) given they keep the pick. He is a player that never takes a play off, always displays the fire and intensity to get the rest of the team pumped and would make a great fit alongside Marc Gasol. No brainer.
Nice observation mistapink....
im also baffled how you question conley after hes played so well in the second half of the season but at the same time talk about how rubio will do this and though when im pretty sure you have never seen him play other then the olympics ( in which he averaged 4pts 3ast 2 turnovers) or some yoube clips and im pretty sure youre baseing youre opnion of him( like most of the other people posting) off of what someone else else saying about him..maybe in 3 years he migh live up to some of the expectations but after watching 9 of his games im just not seeing that happening right away..he has serious issues with quick pg who are athletic such as tarq dean, louis bullock, chris thomas etc..he does play pretty good d when hes checking euro guards who lack thoses aspects in there game. another thing is how different the game is and the rules in the nba then over in europe...we are talking about a kid who sometimes comes off the bench for his club team yet people are talking about him comming over and being a star from jump...and who ever brought up jay bilas saying this or that about him seem to forget this is the same jay bilas who said josh smith wouldnt be good as well as rashad lewis and that darko would be pretty good...so personally im never gonna say a euro pg is a sure thing when hes comming into a different type of game. i do agree with the david lee in the trade senario but two rookie contracts dont add up david lees contract so i dont see that working
Memphis has plenty of cap room to make a sign and trade work swapping their pick and a trade exception equivalent to Lee's new deal should do the trick. That is how the Jason Richardson for Brandan Wright deal went down a few years ago. Bobcats had the cap room to take on J-Rich's contract while swapping the rights to B-Wright and a trade exception to cover the difference in money.