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Gloating... Is it time??

tuck243
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Gloating... Is it time??

There have been too many times where posters have made bold statements and receive love for it because of something that recently happened... Examples are: Greg Monroe should be an All-Star, Melo is OVERRATED (Dano is better), Rondo is better than D. Rose, Blake Griffin is a Top 10 player, etc............

Now when someone says NO!!! They receive negative points which is fine, nothing wrong with it... But when time goes by and its PROVEN that those bold ass statements were freaking wrong and premature what happens??? What happens when a poster receive 5 negatives for disagreeing and was right??? Are we going to continue side step this issue on here??? It's unfair that you can make a comment and disappear when the statement isn't true... AND NO ONE SAYS A WORD... Like the other day... RUDEBOY came out with a story on Lamar Odom... Gave great detail but didn't cite any article... I knew the story was bogus something that was on a Gossip website Mediatakeout.com and asked repeatedly who his sources were... He simply ignored me...

So, from now on this includes me... Call em out or Gloat... Don't get into personal lives of posters like Boywonder did... But start calling people out for being wrong on statements... Because I think its bulsh*t... I've noticed myself, BTPH, Indiana, MikeyV, and Aamir receive negative points on many issues that were simply premature and idiotic (IMO)... You talking people who know some damn basketball... So to combat this call em out, I'm tired of yall getting away with this nonsense... It also brings some level of integrity to this site...


WizKid
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Your argument level is always

Your argument level is always on John Wall/Charlie Sheen....just go 1000 miles per hour. You and I agreed on a couple things like people calling Melo overrated but sometimes you're just too forward with the CAPTIAL LETTERS, so my advice to you is tone it down a smidgen

UC1000
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It happens

on this site a lot. I said Meeks would be a better player than Ellington when they were in college and was crucified. To paraphrase Roger Mayweather, "You(directed to many readers) don't know SH!T about basketball."

mikeyvthedon
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Tuck

Dude, I know this goes on, but I truly think that gloating posts are pretty effing stupid. Do you really need that much gratification? Being right is awesome and all, it is a lot of what drives us to try and prove ourselves as posters/prognosticators. Still, I think there is a better way to bring it up than the way you just did.

Plus, you only cite one instance and give it no reference link yourself. At least if you are going to go after the person, give us the frame of reference. You seem to know basketball a bit, but you address people like an @sshole rather than another human being. I appreciate when people are right about certain things, but sometimes only time will tell. If you call them out, that is fine, but odds are if you do it like this you just look petty and angry. Calm down man. Some things that get posted on here hurt my head too, but I find sarcasm is more fun than raw anger.

aamir543
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Yeah, I absolutly agree. When

Yeah, I absolutly agree. When I make threads, I realize that I get the points that that specific topic deserves, but when I make a post in a thread, do the research and all(I've noticed the same with Tuck, MikeyV, Indiana Ball, BTPH, For Ever Never, and Future Scout) it gets negs, and the crazy part is that no one makes a comment that disagrees with it.

I've realized that the point system is really broken, not saying it's a bad thing but doesn't measure who knows mroe ball or even is a better poster. The thing is, if people like you, you get at least 5 points on each post, if not more, no matter how good or bad that post is, and if people don't like you, than they'll make sure you get as little points as possible.

I don't mean to call anyone out I don't, and this guy is a really good psoter, but nbanflguy gets like 10 points for every single post, whether it's a one liner or somthing he's done research on, he is a good poster, but it's more than obvious that there are random people that neg people they don't like, and give them points if they do like it.

And once again I don't mean to call anyone out, but guys get negs, or very little veiws or ackwoledgement for threads about basketball, but then someone like Proud Grandpa comes along and makes a thread not even related about basketball, and everyone loves it.

I don't mind the off-topic stuff, I participate in them, I think it's entertaining, but it's better off in the off-topic section.

I totally get you Tuck, you might have some irrational views I don't agree with, but I can appreciate the thought and passion you put into your posts.

WizKid
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Aamir nobody loves anything

Aamir nobody loves anything proud grandpa does....

Now give me 10 points for my one liner!

tuck243
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MikeyV

How else would anyone "let them know"?? I would say just let things play out but I'm quite frankly tired of the BS... Its been happening for a while now... No one is stopping... It's not petty, this site is full of debates daily... With people @ one another in threads... So, yes being able to call someone out should be a regular thing here...

My method might be brash but I'm more often then not right... Feel free to call me out anyday of the weak on something I said... I have no issues with being called out... I'm probably the most passionate person on here, so I know I made some bold statements... Outside of saying Kevin Love will be a bust years back, I haven't been wrong to my knowledge... Like I said it will bring integrity to this site, spark more debates, and get rid of the "what have you done for me lately posts"...

Here's the thread I was talking about... with RUDEBOY

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/fight-dirk-led-mavs-cutting-ties-odom

TheArtistPaysth...
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There needs to be a revisionist section

where older topics get brought back to the forum page and revisited. Maybe if a mod picks one topic from the last year on the same date and have the thread revisited. This way when a guy was really wrong or right about a future prediction thay can get credit for it.

Like all those threads that said Odom to the Mavs was basketball genious, when in fact the purpose of the saying "never look a gift horse in the mouth" is because you should look a gift horse in the mouth. Ala trojan horse that had soldiers in it. The Mavs, Redskins and many others get it now.

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McDunkins overdue thread "I

McDunkins overdue thread

"I called Chu Chu so stick your head in Doo Doo #SWAG"

festar35
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What is the point of this

What is the point of this sight if we can't express our opinion? Even if other people don't agree, granted some people (euro baller) are just plan crazy with opinions. but how boring would it be if we all just agreed.

db24kb24
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I agree w/ Tuck

we should have call outs...maybe a call out thread section? but a lot of the BS is opinion, and not factual. idk if you can call sum1 out for what you think could be a poor opinion although i'd really like to sometimes, i guess thats what the negs are for.

my only thing is if you neg, have the decency to defend your neg w/ debate. too many ppl neg without getting their voice out there, this hurts the debates and they die out. it's fun to get into debates where both people bring accurate stats or clearly stated sensible opinions. I can give af how many negs as long as the debate stays logical and reasonable.

TheArtistPaysth...
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There is definitely mob mentality sometimes

like if a guy has like 3 negs people don't even read what he says they just follow suit and dump negs on him.

I'm no psychologist, I just play one on a site where its okay to just make &$#%#&@! up.

Hale
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aamir

I agree with you, but I know one reason why you get negs in threads. It's because you go in off topic threads all the time and try to make them on topic, and it's ultra annoying. If you're referring to something else then I don't know why. I agree with your post that people will neg and thumbs up certain people due to whether they like them or not 100% though. Someone who doesn't have a very good rep, but is very smart (someone like FvckSwag) will get negged for pretty much anything he says unless he really makes a posts nearly everyone agress with, versus guys like you say nbanflguy (not picking on you) will usually get three points just for posting at all.

Let's be clear though. No one here doesn't care about points. That is a damn lie. The points system was gone for like a week and traffic decreased about 90% and half the remaining threads were &$#%#&@!ing about not having points anymore.

tuck243
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Festar35

But thats what I'm saying... It's nothing wrong with disagreeing with me or anyone else... But if your wrong and you received nothing but love for what you said then I think you should admit it... Or if not be called out for it...

mikeyvthedon
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Tuck

You can still be passionate and not alienate a vast majority of people, which you tend to do. I for one do not really remember most of your basketball sentiment, more you getting mad at other people and saying how you are a great basketball mind. Honestly man, if you want to gloat or call someone out, that is fine. Just do not be surprised if people tend not to care.

I definitely hope you are being sarcastic when you said,

"Outside of saying Kevin Love will be a bust years back, I haven't been wrong to my knowledge."

I actually lol'ed. Come on, dude! Think harder, bro. I mean, I am wrong probably every week in some way. I have been wrong a hell of a lot more than once since Kevin Love has been drafted. We are not all always right. We may have more to what we think about something than another person who might just "like him because he is there favorite player".

Dude, I am not calling you out for being wrong, just for having an inflated ego. "I'm probably the most passionate person on here". Who knows? In your mind you are, I suppose. I just do not know why you need this gratification. I could b!tch about every time I get negged or get no response, of course sometimes it is annoying. But, I am not the best or most anything. I just write long things that some people tell me they like. Good enough for me, as much as I love debate and have things I want to bring up.

If I bragged about every time I was right, not only would I than be susceptible to someone actually looking intensely to see all of the times I was wrong, which I can actually admit too usually and give rationalization for, than I bet people would just think I am a cocky @sshole. If you want to call a person out, it is cool. I have had my share of back and forths with other posters. But, the way you go about it does not seem passionate to me, it seems like you are more arrogant than approachable or a person you would want to debate with.

Nbanflguy
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I don't mean to call anyone

I don't mean to call anyone out I don't, and this guy is a really good psoter, but nbanflguy gets like 10 points for every single post, whether it's a one liner or somthing he's done research on, he is a good poster, but it's more than obvious that there are random people that neg people they don't like, and give them points if they do like it.

What can I say? I am just a chill bro. haha jk, but seriously I can understand where everyone is coming from. I think it is not always what you say that makes you lose points, but how you say it. I know for a fact the reason Tuck loses points no matter what is because in every single post he comes off as a very angry, aggressive, name calling, dick. He might not be that way in person, but that is just how he comes off as a poster.

TheArtistPaysth...
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It would be great

to have a list of how many + or -'s a guy gives out. I wonder if some guys ever give anyone credit? Or a top ten guys who gave you a +, post. So if a guy has 1000 points on 100 posts and one guy gave him a + for every single post.

However, I respect that we vote by secret ballot as the founding fathers intended.

tuck243
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LMAO

I'll be that dick... No pun attended... Yes I am arrogant because I haven't been wrong... Whenever you have so much success at calling ish for what it is you can do that...

Excuse me for calling something that I believe is dumb as hell... Well, dumb as hell... You don't know me personally, don't know who I work for, or anything... Why should I be politcally correct on here?? Especially when we have people who post nothing but GIF's all day (Something I actually like BTW)... It may seem angry or agressive but is right... Don't believe me??? Do your due dillengence... Feel free to prove me wrong...

But the notion that I should spare folks feelings, when yall gang up on people left and right while insinuating they're idiots with GIFs or witty jokes is ABSURD... Yall more so mad that I will tell the "precious" ring leaders to STFU... And have no problem going toe to toe with anyone...

Nbanflguy
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However, I respect that we

However, I respect that we vote by secret ballot as the founding fathers intended.

Founding fathers never intended for women to vote and we changed that. Always will be change. Lets have a public vote on nbadraft.net! Then we could really see who our allies and rivals are. Would be so much more intense.

db24kb24
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lmao

" I'll be that dick... No pun attended... Yes I am arrogant because I haven't been wrong... Whenever you have so much success at calling ish for what it is you can do that...

Excuse me for calling something that I believe is dumb as hell... Well, dumb as hell... You don't know me personally, don't know who I work for, or anything... Why should I be politcally correct on here?? Especially when we have people who post nothing but GIF's all day (Something I actually like BTW)... It may seem angry or agressive but is right... Don't believe me??? Do your due dillengence... Feel free to prove me wrong...

But the notion that I should spare folks feelings, when yall gang up on people left and right while insinuating they're idiots with GIFs or witty jokes is ABSURD... Yall more so mad that I will tell the "precious" ring leaders to STFU... And have no problem going toe to toe with anyone..."

priceless

I agree w/ that 1000%!

let the call outs begin! Nobody is safe! hahahhahahaha lol Tuck is comin fo dat azz!(no homo) hahahahahhahahahhaa

Nbanflguy
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Tuck

I'll be that dick... No pun attended... Yes I am arrogant because I haven't been wrong... Whenever you have so much success at calling ish for what it is you can do that...

Excuse me for calling something that I believe is dumb as hell... Well, dumb as hell... You don't know me personally, don't know who I work for, or anything... Why should I be politcally correct on here??

That is why you lose points.

tuck243
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NBanflguy

That's fine... I got swag like a ball player... And h*es love it...

Nbanflguy
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(No subject)

surve
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The points system has good

The points system has good intentions but is flawed by the abusers. When I first figured out the points system, I used it to challenge myself to make interesting topics. I was a lurker here for about 2 years before I became a poster. I became a poster for 2 main reasons. 1) to add what I bring to the site in style and knowledge as one of the older posters who was a basketball fanatic growing up in the 80's. 2) to bone up on my creative writing and journalistic skill (as that was my major)

then I found out you have posters on here that just want to ride someone's jock. the points system became more of a popularity contest.

its irking and disturbing because I come here to talk basketball. it doesnt matter if its on topic or off topic. I got into it with someone here a few weeks ago about this. I posted something and then people just came in and started negging. I could care less about the points, but why neg and hide behind the keyboard? state your argument on why you disagree. then when you ask "why are you negging instead of presenting your argument?" the first thing that comes out of somebody's mouth is "anyone that mentions points will get negged"

its not what the site should be about and it can discourage some new posters from contributing. me....I am more thick-skinned and less emotional. I will call someone out when they act as if someone's opinion is the stupidest thing in existence. personally, I rarely neg anyone. I will +1 if a thread is really interesting or informative.

"I think it is not always what you say that makes you lose points, but how you say it."

this is true sometimes but a lot of times if someone doesnt like you because you may have (unintentionally) showed them up on a thread then they go back and neg every post that they can find you on. they do it to me. going back negging threads from last year.....REALLY?

I agree about maintaining the integrity of the site. If you are posting something you know is a rumor, then state it as such....but me personally, I dont believe chit if you dont site your sources.

People should be given credit for their knowlege, creativity, and research. I just recently shouted out mikeyv for calling the Danuel House MickeyD game snub.

the problem is, you have too many grown men on here that you have to pet their egos. their only defense to you calling them out is to neg every post they see your name on. I say there should be a call out thread because some of the stuff here that people say is ridiculous and not factual AT ALL. you can show them proof and they still will deny it.

tuck243
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Surve

That was the politcally version of what I said... LOL

And NBafanguy I just LOL literally...

aamir543
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^Surve hit on a lot of good

^Surve hit on a lot of good points, and it's evident that you're a journalist or english major, you make really good threads interesting topics that are outside the box, I really liked the Hall of Fame series edition that you did last year, I think that one of the ways to keep the forum going is to have more posters like Surve and MikeyV. It anoys the crap out of me to see like five 7 word threads by Flynt Flossy hogging up the front page. We're all busy, and making threads isn't an easy thing to do, you need a topic, and often time there is an ample amount of reasearch to be done, and I like to hit analysis of the game, and break down the games of players and more specifically teams, and that is pretty time consuming and takes thought and care, not just typing bs.

db24kb24
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It's settled then

We need to get the nbadraft moderators to create a Call out section. And clean up the forum section because ppl complain all the time that their posts aren't being read or they're posting in the wrong section.

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@Tuck..I'm Sorry that i didnt

@Tuck..I'm Sorry that i didnt respond to your Question,becuz i thought i had made it clear where i got that info from...It was told to us by a Grizzlie player and later confirmed by a security guard that we've become friends with since we've been attending Memphis games in the FEDEX Forum..

On wednesday i noticed that Dallas sent out a press statement saying that the reason why Odom was release was becuz of a disagreement with owner Mark Cuban..I guess thats the way they want to spin it,so if anything else gets out about the story,it'll seem questionable,becuz the ''TEAM'' had already said why Odom was let go..If their reason was true,why did they wait to say it? They could've said that the same day, Odom was giving his walking papers...

I remember a few years ago when Miami let Stan Van Gundy go..Their reason was becuz Stan wanted to spend time with his family..But years later we fond out the real reason was becuz Shaq Demanded that Van Gundy be Fired..

Earlier this year OJ Mayo & Tony Allen got into a fight over a card game...If there hadnt been reporters on the plane to tell the story,we might've never heard about it....Becuz often pro teams try to sanitize or never let their problems known to the public...

surve
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Rudeboy

that was some good info and it is much needed on this site. I read who your sources were and I think Tuck overlooked it. sometimes we do look for confirmation from media, but everything is so political now the "real" truths may never come out...or it will be a while when it does. your contributions are appreciated and I think that it was just an oversight on Tuck's part. we are more than the casual fan here, the credibility of senior posters should be given the benefit of the doubt.

JunkYardDog
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Maybe those points are not so

Maybe those points are not so important ... afterall ? It doesn't represent perfectly the quality of the post (from a bbal point of view). I only post/talk about bball here but I don't care if some posters do the opposite and get some green thumb for non bball related gifs.

... I'm not always agree with posters here but I always can discuss and sometimes buy some argument. I rarely negg except if I feel the poster is

disingenuous... or is telling complete BS (kostas sloukas is better tha LeBron for example).
The real issue is : when can you give some negg ? I hate when someone is just asking for information and get negged for...





mikeyvthedon
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Tuck

Man, I actually think you know what you are talking about and do not mind you as a poster. Indeed I checked some of your past work (not thoroughly, just a name search on NBADraft.net) and while I do not find a whole lot wrong with it, the major issue is how you address people. Why do we need to "STFU" for not agreeing with the way you go about things? I know you say it "h#es love it", but last time I checked, this is a basketball site with a running joke of not having any female posters, lol.

If you like stroking your own ego constantly, that is fine. Just know that people sometimes find that a tad obnoxious and distasteful. People dislike LeBron James for his perceived arrogance and last time I checked, he patted himself on the back far less than you seem to. Now, I saw you agreeing with the OJ Mayo to Kobe Bryant comparisons, so you have to admit that while you may not have inherently been "wrong", you occasionally are maybe not completely on point. Just like every other poster on here, including myself. If you feel the need to call someone out, feel free to do so. The thing is, why is there such a need to go on the whole "I was right and you were wrong, na na na na na" tip? Just seems like more of a lack of maturity than a sign of knowledge or intellect.

surve
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yeah, no need for the "I was

yeah, no need for the "I was right/you were wrong thing". my problem is that either a lot here dont bother to read a post before responding with a blast or there is a serious reading comprehension problem with posters here. sometimes this bickering comes from somebody skimming through a post and then being insulting towards the poster and accusing them of all sorts of skullduggery when that was never the poster's intention.

get to know your fellow posters is what I suggest. then you will know their characteristics. most that know my posts should know that I am not one to gloat...but a post I made a few weeks ago was misinterpreted as such. it should not have been had the post been read in detail. this is why I said Tuck overlooked the sources that Rudeboy cited. keep in mind as well though, some sources can be partially but not fully divulged. As a side-note to that, there are things that go on in my city that I have reliable sources on, as do most of you in your cities...however I do not post anything that I feel may be detrimental to an athlete, particularly amateur...in light of all the stress the NCAA dishes out.

lastly, sometimes we bang the keys a little harder sometimes when debating with certain posters....but that is not because we necessarily have an antagonistic relationship towards someone like MikeyV (but I love it when you and memphistyga go at it), its just that some of us are very passionate about the sport...and there is nothing wrong with that.

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the people that neg me have

the people that neg me have no balls, they just go ahead and neg me and remain hidden!!! every time some1 argues with me, for the most part, end up getting owned, so they just neg me ad hominemly

4 real, they should really show who's negging you, that way you can argue back, and make a case for yourself. or how about having to give a reply/explanation for every neg you give, so people not handing out negs just cuss they don't like you.

in the short amount of time i've been here, i have stablished myself as 1 of the most hated posters among the little people that actually know who i am.

and btw, ill say it again. i seriously cant care less about points. i use to plus 1 myself at the beginning but than realized is not worth it... # FU(K POINTS

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the people that neg me have

the people that neg me have no balls, they just go ahead and neg me and remain hidden!!! every time some1 argues with me, for the most part, end up getting owned, so they just neg me ad hominemly

4 real, they should really show who's negging you, that way you can argue back, and make a case for yourself. or how about having to give a reply/explanation for every neg you give, so people not handing out negs just cuss they don't like you.

in the short amount of time i've been here, i have stablished myself as 1 of the most hated posters among the little people that actually know who i am.

and btw, ill say it again. i seriously cant care less about points. i use to plus 1 myself at the beginning but than realized is not worth it... # FU(K POINTS

Nbanflguy
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Future Scout

They neg you because like half of your posts are drunk posts.

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stfu bro!, seriously. who

stfu bro!, seriously. who cares if i SMOKE WEED (NOT DRINK)...

son, i know basketball, and post good info. i really don't get negged for being hi, and if i do, thats MAJOR BS.

i get negged cuss they hate me lol. perfect example look at the "best back-up PG" thread, i get negged 6 times for mentioning farmar. how is that even normal??????

Nbanflguy
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look at the "calling out

look at the "calling out indianabasketball" thread to see what I mean.

http://nbadraft.net/forum/calling-out-indianabasketball

You are like tuck. Yeah you make solid points sometimes and you know basketball, but you come off really angry and aggresive.

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ok i understand those are

ok i understand those are very annoying, but i probably wasn't even hi.

that called iphone posting not "drunk posting". my iPhone never lets me write anything under subject and i was outraged by people supporting that clown (that posts garbage), and ganging up on indiana who is clearly an awesome poster. had to say something, and was away from home/cpu

and it happened, exactly what i didn't want to happen. now indiana doesn't post and we don't get any good posts from one of the best posters because everyone hates him.

butidonthavemoney
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Sounds

Sounds like some of you need to read NoMoney's Guide to Getting More Points...

aamir543
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Future Scout, Forever Never,

Future Scout, Forever Never, and Fvck Swag get negged so much for innocent posts, you know they're getting trolled on. I thought Future Scout was at like 800 points. He probably lost about 300 points because he was posting high, but teh rest is just haters.

The thing that annoys me most is that some terrible posts that just put people down or give no insight on anything get likes, but somthing that people put htought into gets negs, and it's obvious no one read anything. Just a couple weeks ago MkeyV and I were going back and forth on the thread about Point Guards I made, and each and every single of our posts had negs, and not from each other.

Nbanflguy
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Nomoney where do I send my

Nomoney where do I send my $129.99? Seem like a really insightful guide

3-6 Mafia
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aamir - the indian gangsta

aamir - the indian gangsta lol

we cant forget about memphis_madness among many others (including you, aamir) when talking about getting negged for nothing

TheArtistPaysth...
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Like the revisionist post earlier

how is that not even an acknowledged idea?

Joe Wolf just started a good thread about the second round of the 08 draft. It would be nice if we opened a link back to 08 predictions and praised guys for good ideas and negged guys for bad ones.

If wish ESPN would hold McShay and Kiper previous years.

mikeyvthedon
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Also

I looked at that Rudeboy post and while he maybe could have given some more info or cited his sources more clearly, it was not a big deal. I try to cite everything I can, but some things are just things you hear somewhere or have talked about. Definitely want to give credit where it is due, just some times is more difficult to do so. Still do not know how that was overly wrong, plus it is up to the person to believe what they want to believe. Who the hell knows if that happened, maybe people liked the drama behind it, not a big deal in my mind.

Future_Scout, dude, people have flat out come and told you at times they disagree with you. Most of your posts are short and sometimes not incredibly thought out or with reasoning one can understand. Plus, you complain every time you lose points, which is just the best way to lose more.

I don't care if you are high, drunk, whatever. Just know that you could probably do better by your own accord rather than blaming everyone else for not understanding your genius. I think you and Tuck have a lot of potential as posters, but you both have told people to STFU on the internet in this post alone. THE INTERNET! Come on, guys, we can disagree here, even get angry or emotional, but when you start with name calling (which I suppose I am slightly guilty on in this post as well, though just trying to give perspective), it just detracts from what you are saying.

Tone is sometimes difficult to detect on the internet, but if you are upset about getting negatives, maybe try changing it slightly on certain posts. Might not work for all of them and I am sure you will point out to me there are posts where that has not mattered in the least, but it is just a suggestion and not a command. You can keep doing what you are doing, saying you could give a f#ck less about points or other peoples opinions. The thing is, you will still be posting on this site and asking our opinions or wanting response on your own. You both seem like smart guys, so why not at the very least try to do something that gets your point across in a less abrasive manner?

butidonthavemoney
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Nbanflguy
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mickeyV

im not changing for sh!t, others need to change.

i come to this site because its clearly the best b-ball forum, if not, i wouldn't be here.

and i don't complain every time i get negged, if that was true i would have a follow-up post for every comment i make

ProudGrandpa
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NBAnNFLGuy

This thread has made you one of my favorite posters. For what that's worth...

But i'm glad I'm not the only one who views tuck as an incredibly unnecessarily hostile poster

Nbanflguy
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PG

Nbanflguy this thread has made you one of my favorite posters. For what that's worth...

Proudgrandpa that is worth a lot. I am honored.

Nbanflguy
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Tuck

Yes I am arrogant because I haven't been wrong... Whenever you have so much success at calling ish for what it is you can do that...

Tuck in another thread: "I think John Stockton was a defensive liability"

Ok right there you are wrong. Do you want me to make a thread calling you out?

Stockton was one of the peskiest defenders in nba history. He might not have been a superstar at it, but he was a really smart defender and knew all the veteran tricks that you can get away with. Is also the NBA career leader in steals and 2nd place is not even close.

surve
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not to sound arrogant, but I

not to sound arrogant, but I think there are a lot of trolls here that really dont know chit about basketball either and just relish negging anything that pertains to basketball knowledge or a real discussion. some of the most knowlegable posters here just get negged with no offer of debate. others dont say anything remotely related to basketball discussion and get plused. if I cared about points, I would stop posting here. I care about discussion.

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