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The Gay Issue In Basketball

canesboy6
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The Gay Issue In Basketball

This is a sensitive issue but one that is becomming impossible to ignore. So here is my stance, and I dont want anybody to be ignorant but to also understand everybody is entitled to feel how they feel.

This is how I feel. Gay people should have rights, its ok and it doesnt make them a bad person. Personally, its a little odd for me but 2 of my best friends are a lesbian couple and they are wonderful people. I understand some people have religous objections, but this is America and people are allowed the freedom to be themselves heres and as an American, that is important to me, even if its something that wierds me out a little.

In my personal opinion, there is a difference between being gay and being a f@ggot. Being a f@ggot is not a sexual preference thing. It is being overly sensitive, or lame, or just a buzzkill in general. Im not advocating it as a politically correct term or anything, but I dont even see it as a gay slur. I see it as almost just a generic curse word, like the other f word or the B word or whatever. Its the NBA. Its the best basketball players in the world, and its the best trash talkers in the world, and its the highest stage in the world. Things will be said.

I think a big step towards gays being more accepted in sports is to not make the issue such an unneccesarily touchy subject. Things are said in the Heat (2-1 Biyatches! 305 till I move) of battle, and its important to understand that words just fly. I'm not sayings its great, or a good thing for kids to see, but people need to be adults and grow up. Gays have a place in sports and the world IMO as long as they be a good person and do their job, just like I would expect of any other human being and American. I have no prejudice in that area. This isn't 1950 and most people are progressive enough now to at the least agree to disagree with the gay rights movement.

What bothers me is that everybody has to be so f@ggy about everything now. Its basketball for petes sake. Its mans game, and if you are going to cry about what another grown man says in the the heat of battle, then you ARE being a f@ggot.

Lets go Heat. I hope this is not misinterpreted but I felt it was important and want to know what yall think.


kanyedabest
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as i said in a earlier post

as i said in a earlier post its ludacris for guys to get fined cause we cant hear wat there saying all were doing is lip reading and regardless what happened to freedom of speech? And if ur gonna minus ppl on this post explain urself and ur stance

kngojc
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I see this as a touchy

I see this as a touchy subject. I can see where you're coming from when you say f@ggot isn't a word you associate with being gay, that it is just another curse word. But the way I see it.. Wouldn't it be the exact same kind of thing to go up to a black guy (that you don't know) and call him the n word (especially if you're a white guy) as it would going up to a gay guy and calling him a f@ggot? I understand that its a mans game and that if you can't take some of the trash talking or insults, that you probably don't have what it takes mentally to make it in the league. Obviously saying things like that are becoming just common language for people of our generation but like what you said, in order for gays to be more accepted, society needs to be less touchy-feely about the subject. How well did that whole thing go during the Civil Rights Movement? There were those racist white people that acted out violently against black people and nothing ended well. I mean its not the same exact situation but in reality they both have the same elements. In order for any change (or acceptance) to happen, people just need to see that those people on that side of the issue are still seeing these things and they're the target of these comments or remarks. IMO tolerating comments such as these where players are calling out others and calling them f@ggots or anything else and letting them get off without any type of punishment just seems like promoting ignorance in the world.

And like what Kanye said, if you don't agree, explain why if you're going to minus me (as much as these points mean to me haha) because I'm still entitled to my own opinion even if it is different than your own.

erez
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Why should someone be insulted for being overly sensitive?

First of all, he was always going to get fined because players have to be leading examples and if they don't fine him theyre basically saying "its okay to call someone a &$#%#&@!." And the gay communities would go crazy. On a different note, why should someone be insulted for being overly sensitive? Was jordan a &$#%#&@! when he cried after winning a championship? Cruel world if people are insulted for being deppressed or crying too. Regardless thunders taking it this year :)

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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kngojc Gays were never

kngojc

Gays were never considered property, they were never considered as less than a man than African Americans were back then, they were never segregated, they were never beaten, they were never made to serve for their entire lives and live an unhealthy and meaningless life, they were never hated for something they could not control. They were never set back completely by the law and government, they were never shown as much disprespect as African American's were.

So for you to say that the word 'f*ggot' is equal to the 'n' word is completely irational thinking. The 'n' word holds much more historical and painful memories and definition than the word f*ggot. Please don't bring race into this subject, especially comparing the 'n' word with the word 'f*ggot' because there is absolutely no direct correlation between the two. They are not even in the same stratosphere as far as meaning and historical background.

Now my two cents,

I believe the word 'f*ggot' is much more commonly accepted, especially by people within the age group of 15-25. Do I have a problem with gays? No. I believe they can do whatever they want as long as they don't try to hit on me or anything like that. Am I going to hold my tongue and not say the word 'f*ggot' when someone is around? No. It is so commonly used, it has become just another word. I don't believe anybody is even offended when another person overhears someone say 'f*ggot'. There's always someone that will say they feel disrespected or uncomfortable but when someone near them uses that word, they won't say a damn thing. In all reality, kids hear that word so many times a day, the meaning of it is lessened to an extreme extent. For people to be acting like children because a grown professional athlete uses this as a "gay slur", they are down right ridiculous. Joakim Noah and Kobe Bryant could care less if the person they were referring to was gay or not, they said what they said as a common curse word.

I highly doubt Noah was telling the fan he believed the fan was a homosexual. It was a mild curse word that is being turned into a problem by broadcasting programs such as FoxSports, ESPN, and all these news outlets because they do not have any better stories.

What SHOULD be happening is, cameras should stop pointing live cameras to angry players. They know what type of reaction they are going to get, yet they seem surprised when they capture it. Just this week, Westbrook and Noah have both been caught cursing on the bench, it was repeated about 20 times on ESPN and another 5 times in every possible ESPN show. They are grown ass men, let them say what they want to say. I've heard worst.

In other news...

ItsVictorOladipo
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tongue-out

Gays were never considered property, they were never considered as less than a man than African Americans were back then, they were never segregated, they were never beaten, they were never made to serve for their entire lives and live an unhealthy and meaningless life, they were never hated for something they could not control. They were never set back completely by the law and government, they were never shown as much disprespect as African American's were.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm a straight, black male and even I don't agree with most of that.

No, gay men and women were never enslaved for who they were, like African-Americans, but to say that they were "never hated for something they could not control" or "never set back completely by the law and government" is completely ignorant. LBGT are still hated for their sexual preference which is something they can't control. Until 1962 sodomy was a felony in every state, and while sodomy isn't exclusively a gay phenomemon the law was mainly used to restrict the rights of the gay community. Look up the Society for Human Rights if you don't believe that gays were set back by the law and the government.

Gay people have been shown a great deal of disrespect in the past, not as much as African Americans perhaps, but then again it's easier to hide being gay than it is to hide being black. I would say that currently they recieve just as much if not more disrespect than black people from the majority of our society.

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Sorry, but gay people were

Sorry, but gay people were and are considered less than a straight person. I would not dare to compare, but you can't say that gay people aren't seen by many as lower members of our society. What about laws about gay marriage, gays adopting children? just to mention a few.

As for the word &$#%#&@!, when I say it I don't think it's gay, I just use it as a regular curse word. If gays think it's offensive then people should try to stop using it, cause that's how things work. Think of the 50s and what words people used to find OK.

M-DYMES
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People are too damn sensitive

People are too damn sensitive and this crosses all sexes, sexual orientations, ethnicities and religions. People just need to stop giving a damn what people say or think of them and just do themselves.

Whatever happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"? I agree people should be more considerate and respectful, but come on. It is just a damn word. Disagree with me all you want but my personal belief is...

If im black and you call me nigga...brush it off (I know the history of the word but when it is still used within the community so commonly...brush it off)

If im a woman and you call me &$#%#&@!/hoe...brush it off

If im white and you call me honky/cracker/wigger...brush it off

If im gay and you call me &$#%#&@!...brush it off

If im asian and you call me a yellow...brush it off

If im drunk at a bar and you call me &$#%#&@!...go get a drink

erez
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ghrghr do you think your better then gay people?

i hope what u wrote is just on how you see the world around you, but if you really think your better then gays your an a.sshole.

erez
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what am i wrong!?

haha i didnt say he thinks hes better then gays, i said IF he thinks he is. im just a very strong believer of equality. I just think its very sad when people think that gays, blacks, asians, are less then us...except for women, they are less then us.

torontoraptors10
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My Stance

Here is my stance,

If you're degrading someone in any way, it's wrong. Whether is being calling someone gay or a f*ggot. It's an offensive word to use and being gay DOES NOT make you less of any person out there. I think it's pretty stupid how many ignorant people are out there in the world today and are homophobic because they're uneducated about the situation and refuse to learn about it.

For example, there was a 10 year old boy in the USA ( you guys probably read about this ) and he committed suicide after being bullied by being called "gay." I just feel it is an offensive word and if people don't take offense to it, no change will be made. This story broke my heart because he had a bright future and was a smart student, not to mention it was avoidable if someone took charge to make a change! Don't be some pushover, where some insecure bully can call you "gay" which can lead to severe consequences for your well-being.

Honestly, how would you feel if someone started calling you that every single day? It will get to your head and it will affect your lifestyle. We need to start coming together and stand for this, stopping this nonsense.

bennydabull
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The difference between f@ggot

The difference between f@ggot and n166a is that, unlike African Americans, gay people don't actually go around calling eachother f@ggots. The word has essentially evolved and has a new definition: tool, douchebag, idiot. This is how I interpret it. It's true that people are very sensitive about ANYTHING that can seem offensive. It's unfair in this case because socially, we've made it acceptable to be calling other people f@ggots. Why? Maybe it's' because of the lack of gay rights and constant gay bashing in schools and the public. This is mainly because America is basically a Christian dominated country, which has trouble accepting that there are people with different sexual preferences.

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Tongue-out-like-23: I will

Tongue-out-like-23:

I will agree with you major point that the oppression of salvery and segregation on black people is worse than what has historically happened to gay people. However, you have to understand that this is mainly because gay people were able to and did hide their gayness for most of this country's history.

You said: "Gays were never considered property [Agreed], they were never considered as less than a man than African Americans were back then [Of course they were considered less of a man, still are to many folks in ways that Blacks aren't anymore.], they were never segregated [Gays could pass as straight and go anywhere, that is true, but they could not go anywhere or do anything in this country while being open about their gayness until about 30 years ago. They still can't in a lot of places. Blacks at least could have Black restaurants even before the civil rights movement, but Gays could not.], they were never beaten [You are clueless if you think gays were never beaten and in fact you are clueless if you think they aren't regularly beaten in this country for being gay to this day. 30-years ago cops would bust gay parties and beat the crap out of everyone before arresting them for violating the anti-sodemy laws. Those laws are still on the books in a lot of places, but they are rarely enforced. But back in the day, you could be arrested if peole found out you were gay.], they were never made to serve for their entire lives and live an unhealthy and meaningless life, they were never hated for something they could not control [Okay, now I'm wondering if you are just trolling me here. You are saying that gays were never hated for something that can't control? Really?]. They were never set back completely by the law and government, they were never shown as much disprespect as African American's were. [Agreed, historically speaking, but now they are probably shown more legal disrepect now."

M-DYMES
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Personally I don't have a

Personally I don't have a problem with gay people at all. But it &$#%#&@! me off when some of them play themselves off as this cliche and stereotypical personality.

I have a hard time believin a large portion of the gay community all speak with high pitched voices, parade themselves like the damn village people, and make quaint hand gestures. I'd like to think they are similar to heterosexuals but just prefer their own sex, but the flamboyant ones such as desribed above, do them little justice.

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The word f@ggot has the

The word f@ggot has the same connotations as telling someone they are being gay. Basically it is a way to try and bully others into agreeing with your point of view by inferring that being or acting gay or like a f@ggot makes them less of a man, it is the same way with phrases like man up or grow a pair, except by inferring that someone is being gay or a f@ggot you are degrading an entire group of people.

There is this stereotype in America that we are mostly tolerant of "gays" and that we afford them respect as long as they do not try and push "what they are doing" on us. But regardless of however many times people publically apologize for their gay slurs or donations to anti-gay movements it will never mask what we are taught to believe by society and our media. I have seen people in tears because of the hazing and the threats to their life. I have spoken with teenagers who have attempted suicide because of this "teasing". This goes beyond any other insult or insinuation in today’s society. If you call a young boy an idiot or an @ss he will shrug it off, but when you see someone call him a f@ggot, everything changes and he will do anything to try to change that image. This is not because f@ggot means that he is lame, if that was the case he would just shrug it off, it is because it infers that he is now less than everyone who is not a f@ggot, who is not gay. So whether you come out and say to people that being gay makes you less of a person, or just call someone a f@ggot, it can send the same message.

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someone being gay to me in

someone being gay to me in sports shouldnt matter... you cant judge them just becuz there homosexuals

its very unfair

and being called a "&$#%#&@!" is just another deragortory term for a gay person

we all have used it in some points of time, but it also depends on the seriouness of when u say "&$#%#&@!"

i have nothing against gays or lesbians, whether there born being gay or not, we cant judge them as people, its discrmination

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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TallManNYC "[You are clueless

TallManNYC

"[You are clueless if you think gays were never beaten and in fact you are clueless if you think they aren't regularly beaten in this country for being gay to this day. 30-years ago cops would bust gay parties and beat the crap out of everyone before arresting them for violating the anti-sodemy laws. Those laws are still on the books in a lot of places, but they are rarely enforced. But back in the day, you could be arrested if peole found out you were gay.]",

The fact that it was not against the law to beat a slave back then makes it even worse than a person getting beat because of their sexual preference. I'm sure we all agree that the way African American's were beaten is nowhere near the way a gay has been beated. It's happened less freguently and the abuse was not as bad.

"[Okay, now I'm wondering if you are just trolling me here. You are saying that gays were never hated for something that can't control? Really?]."

Gay people can actually hide it, meaning atleast showing it is somewhat controllable. Whereas an African American had NO way of controlling or hiding their skin color.

ItsDwightHoward

"never set back completely by the law and government" is completely ignorant.

You're telling me not being able to get married and not being able to adopt is on the same level as being enslaved? Get a clue bro.

And you're really telling me that gays were disrespected more than African Americans? Dude.. have you even heard of slaves?

"I would say that currently they recieve just as much if not more disrespect than black people from the majority of our society."

I think you're completely missing the point here. I'm saying the 'n' word is far worst than the word gay or f*ggot because of it's historical and painful background. I'm not talking about gays and African Americans in present day America. I'm talking about all-time.

TallmanNYC
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Tongue, I didn't mean that

Tongue,

I didn't mean that black people didn't have it worse, they certainly did. But gays have had it pretty bad historically, during recent history, and to a certain extent still do today throughout this country.

Another question for the group. What do you think would happen if, in the heat of a playoff game, a white player used the N-Word against a black player. Lets say it is a situation where there has been a lot of banging and some bad blood. Here is an example of what I'm asking, Perkins has been laying some wood on Dirk all game, Dirk is digging in with the elbows which has just been making Perkins bang harder, things escalate and they exchange some words, with Dirk deliviring the N-Bomb. In my example this is a real heat of passion moment.

I think the outcry would be louder in this situation, but that goes with what Tongue said in that Black oppression was much worse than Gay oppression in this country.

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erez, I don't think I'm

erez, I don't think I'm better than gay people. I was just talking about what society in general thinks of them. I am sure that it will change, and it already has a lot.

My post was mostly criticizing the guy who said gays didn't have a hard time.

About comparing gays and black people, of course black people faced much greater difficulties, historically, you can't even compare. Gays have some rights, slaves had none. But as black people don't like the use of the N word gays don't like the use of some other words, jewish people don't like the use of some other words, asian people, arabian people and so on.

There are 2 ways to solve this, either everyone stops using the words that offend other people or people stop being offended by them. If you are black and don't like being called the N word you should respect the gays' wishes not to be called f*******, even though you may not be trying to imply anything gay with that.

erez
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Got you man

I was just checking i think i should have asked in a different way, i sort of accused you. I agree with you they are looked at lower all i was saying is its wrong they are. Man i came here to talk basketball not discrimination haha

ItsVictorOladipo
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tongue-out

You're telling me not being able to get married and not being able to adopt is on the same level as being enslaved? Get a clue bro.

And you're really telling me that gays were disrespected more than African Americans? Dude.. have you even heard of slaves?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now you're just being ridiculous. When did I ever mention not being able to get married or adopt? Gay people were IMPRISONED in the not so far past for committing homosexual acts. There were LAWS against them being openly gay.

Nor did I ever say it was on the same level as slavery.

You said that they were "never set back completely by the law and government". If you think blatant laws against homosexuality didn't set them back, then you're very much mistaken.

The government denying the rights of one group (in this case African Americans) through slavery doesn't diminish the harm they did to another group (LBGT) by restricting their rights through fines, imprisonment and hard labour.

And I did not tell you that "gays were disrespected more than African Americans" I specifically said "NOT AS MUCH AS AFRICAN AMERICANS"

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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ItsDwightHoward " I would say

ItsDwightHoward

" I would say that currently they recieve just as much if not more disrespect than black people from the majority of our society."

So you didn't say that? Okay.

I think most of you guys are missing my point here. In society, the term f*ggot is accepted especially by the younger generation. Does it make it right? No. But people need to stop acting so sensitive when someone uses that word.

ItsVictorOladipo
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Either you have a serious

Either you have a serious problem with reading comprehension or you're just twisting my words on purpose.

You said this:

"And you're really telling me that gays were disrespected more than African Americans? Dude.. have you even heard of slaves?"

The key word is "were", since you don't seem to know what that means I will make it very clear; "were" is the past form of being. I never said gays WERE disrespected more I said CURRENTLY. "currently" means being in the present time.

Dude if you think slavery CURRENTLY exists in America you need to get out more.

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I'm well aware slavery does

I'm well aware slavery does not exist in America anymore. Understand that it was/is a more sensative subject, so for someone to say the 'n' word is on the same level as the word 'f*ggot', is just ridiculous.

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I'm done with this. This is a

I'm done with this. This is a bball board and that's why I come here. I'm done talking politics. Never had a problem with you or anyone on these boards before so I'm not gonna start now. Peace.

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Word.

Word.

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Is all this because Noah said

Is all this because Noah said "Scott Padgett?"

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I'll Beat a Dead Horse

I had a pretty long post, but since things have died down here I'll just throw my two cents in.

"In my personal opinion, there is a difference between being gay and being a f@ggot. Being a f@ggot is not a sexual preference thing."

This is willful ignorance. You may not think that the word is offensive and you may not say it with any ill-will, but it has the potential to hurt people. "&$#%#&@!" is a hate term and shouting it in frustration is highly offensive. Your intent does not change that.

I don't see what the big deal is about not saying that word. Why can't you not use it? Do you not know any other word for sensitive? Can you not control what you are saying?

Being upset at overly sensitive people for taking another word out of your list of acceptable cuss words is comical. The world is sensitive. Learn to deal with it.

The only people that I personally know who still use the word "&$#%#&@!" in conversations are psychotic Christians and Confederates.

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Noah was fined for using

Noah was fined for using language whch was deemed unsuitable/homophobic and if he had been heard to swear then I'd have guessed he could have been cited for using foul and abusive language. I agree that this type of language or using the N Word on court is not justfied but would any player utter the N-Word on court wth him very likely to have several black/mixed race team mates for example?

Out of interest I wiki searched "Gay Sportsmen" and it listed about 75 names, a lot of whom came out after they retired. Here in the UK there are very few "Out" sportsmen, only one professonal footballer has ever come out so it may well be seen as being as taboo here as it could be in other sports although one of our top young Cricketers came out recently and Mickey Rourke is making a film based on gay Rugby player Gareth Thomas.

I'm straight and whilst a gay lifestyle would not be to my liking, I've several friends who are gay and this is never an issue and should not be so in sport.

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I think that is their

thanks

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