share

franchise changer

rhamnlacson
rhamnlacson's picture
Registered User
Joined: 08/10/2011
Posts: 471
Points: -545
Offline
franchise changer

will the bobcats find thier franchise player in this draft?


mosdef
Registered User
Joined: 02/25/2011
Posts: 368
Points: 268
Offline
when i think of franchise I

when i think of franchise I think of LeBron, Durant, Love, Dirk

I think they will find players more like Rudy Gay, Josh Smith and people like that

kobyz
kobyz's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/22/2009
Posts: 1718
Points: -2280
Offline
^^ you'r serious? Love

^^ you'r serious? Love franchise player??

someone who didn't make the playoff once and never experience with his team a winning record, please don't put his name with the likes of Dirk, LeBron and KD, he will never be close to this level.

rhamnlacson
rhamnlacson's picture
Registered User
Joined: 08/10/2011
Posts: 471
Points: -545
Offline
totaly

i agree with you on that one they may not find a lebron or a durant(has possiblity though) but a ruddy gay or josh smith sounds really probable right now

mosdef
Registered User
Joined: 02/25/2011
Posts: 368
Points: 268
Offline
@kobyz

why not about Love???

the dude was only in the top 2 in rebounding the last two years and he was 4th in scoring this year. Those are stats that turn a franchise. Its not his fault Rubio tore his knee. Did you forget that Durant had two years were he didnt make the playoffs and then got in the lottery with Westbrook and Harden. Its a gradual rise but I would say Love is there

kobyz
kobyz's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/22/2009
Posts: 1718
Points: -2280
Offline
Love is not there, stats not

Love is not there, stats not telling the all story, Love is very bad defensive player, not a go to guy type of an offensive player a la Dirk(more of a flow of the offense type scorer, doesn't have very good one on one skills), overall not good enough to be a franchise player.
so becuse the rookie PG of the team went down after the middle of the season it's a reason to finished with a 26 - 40 record if you a franchise player? that telling a lot of what your value, love is a very good player but i think the king is naked and a lot make him a lot more than what he is for no justice.

B Free
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 993
Points: 2422
Offline
Dirk din't make the playoffs

Dirk din't make the playoffs for the first three years and didnt really win anything for a while, Kevin Durant was bad enough the next years to get Westbrook at 4 and Harden at 2 which helped a lot.

220
220's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/30/2012
Posts: 1195
Points: 2788
Offline
Stranger things have

Stranger things have happened. Think about it, did anyone expect Rajon Rondo to become the best player on the Celtics in the Big 3 Era? No, but he is now. It's difficult to predict who will turn into a star and who won't but there are all star type players in every draft.

It's hard to measure the desire and work ethic of a guy, but they're two of the main characteristics that determine how a players pro career will be.

kobyz
kobyz's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/22/2009
Posts: 1718
Points: -2280
Offline
@b free

there a lot different between them. and also Love is looking for being closer to finished product than what they were in first years.

mosdef
Registered User
Joined: 02/25/2011
Posts: 368
Points: 268
Offline
If a guy who has shown he can

If a guy who has shown he can be a to 5 scorer, the top rebounder in the league, hit like 80% from the FT and has 3pt range isnt a franchise builder then standards are really really high.

I think Love is the best PF in the game.

B Free
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 993
Points: 2422
Offline
What im saying is franchise

What im saying is franchise changers aren't what they used to be, or we wouldn't have these "big threes'" forming and guys only wanting to sign with teams that are contenders or if they already have all stars of if Dwight is gonna go too.

And Love statistically and even record wise is following along the right track to get this team a play off team year in and out he needs a healthy Rubio and another wing.

kobyz
kobyz's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/22/2009
Posts: 1718
Points: -2280
Offline
@mosdef

not better than Dirk!
and again numbers don't tell the all story, i just think overall he dosn't have the level of winning brand of basketball like other elite players...

B Free
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 993
Points: 2422
Offline
"level of winning brand of

"level of winning brand of basketball" what does that even mean?

kobyz
kobyz's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/22/2009
Posts: 1718
Points: -2280
Offline
^^ talent

^^ talent

mosdef
Registered User
Joined: 02/25/2011
Posts: 368
Points: 268
Offline
I just checked it. Before

I just checked it. Before Rubio hurt his knee the TWolves were 21-20. Thats a .512 wiining percentage which would have been with pacing Houston who just missed the West playoffs. In the final month before the injury the TWolves were playing at a .579 win percentage. They do need a SG cuz Wes Johnson stinks

Im not even a TWolves fan too

B Free
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 993
Points: 2422
Offline
he is an undersized

he is an undersized unathletic PF the only way he is able to do the things he does and put up those numbers is because of talent, he doesn't have the size or athletic gifts the other guys do.

Hale
Hale's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/08/2009
Posts: 5935
Points: 12822
Offline
I agree with kobyz, Love

I agree with kobyz, Love isn't a franchise changer at this point. He hasn't changed the Wolves at all really. Ricky Rubio is more of a franchise changer because he makes everyone better.

theballerway
theballerway's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/09/2012
Posts: 485
Points: 328
Offline
No Love

Hes like Granger when the pacers were poor. Just gets numbers. To me the stat involving their records shows Rubio is the cganger. Love just dont play muchh d, and hes basically a Jump shooter on O. Which is funny because In HS he had a rep as a great low post scorer, footwork n all that good stuff. Hes on the verge of that second tier of star though

kobyz
kobyz's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/22/2009
Posts: 1718
Points: -2280
Offline
@B Free, excuse me, i meant

@B Free, excuse me, i meant ability.

fcb206
Registered User
Joined: 05/27/2010
Posts: 280
Points: 290
Offline
Some love for Love, and some Dirk/Love perspective

Kevin Love, in his fourth professional season, put up 26 and 13. the list of guys who put up 25 and 10 by their fourth season in the league:

Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Karl Malone, Charles Barkely, Oscar (9.9 rebounds), Elgin, Bob McAdoo, Bob Petitt, Elvin Hayes, Bob Lainer.

Tim Duncan and pat ewing did it in season 5

Thats some pretty rarified company. Thirteen Hall of Famers. If you dont consider Love a franchise cornerstone at this point, im not sure what you want out of a basketball player. Dude is a stud.

couch gm
couch gm's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/01/2012
Posts: 52
Points: 24
Offline
After the fact...

Dirk wasn't a "Franchise Player" until after he won a championship. It's easier to say these things after the fact so to say flat out cold that Love couldn't be a franchise guy is wrong. Like other guys on the cusp of being elite if he is surrounded by the right players and the right system he will have success from a team stand point. If Love isn't a potential franchise guy then you're looking at LeBron, Durant, Wade, Dwight and maybe CP3 as the only franchise guys in the NBA at the mo.

Hale
Hale's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/08/2009
Posts: 5935
Points: 12822
Offline
You're looking at it from

You're looking at it from purely a statistical standpoint. He's still a guy who shoots a poor FG% for a PF and struggles defensively. It's not like we aren't saying he's a great player, because he is. But a 'franchise changer' should be a guy who changes the franchise. The Wolves were a terrible team with Love up until this year and then when Rubio went down, became terrible again. That's not franchise changing, but that shouldn't be his job anyway. It's Rubio's job.

Edit: I'm not saying he can't be a franchise player, I'm saying right now he isn't. Rubio is the teams most important player, that's clear to all those who watch the Wolves extensively, so how can Love be a franchise changer when someone else is more important?

Hale
Hale's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/08/2009
Posts: 5935
Points: 12822
Offline
couch gm

"If Love isn't a potential franchise guy then you're looking at LeBron, Durant, Wade, Dwight and maybe CP3 as the only franchise guys in the NBA at the moment"

That's exactly how I define it (adding Rose and maybe 1-2 others). Maybe my expectations are high, but franchise guy to me means the guy is elite, not really good or great, but elite. Someone who you can truly win a title with right now.

couch gm
couch gm's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/01/2012
Posts: 52
Points: 24
Offline
Definition

I think Y2G you've nailed it - it depends how or even what we are defining (this thread has mentioned franchise payer, franchise changer, franchise cornerstone and some people call it the franchise). I think I'd look at that list as being the franchise - guys whose presence alone will have your team competing. For me a franchise cornerstone is someone who you can build around and win a championship (Dirk, Rose and Love would just squeeze into this category for me) but need more help. When it comes to being a franchise changer I'd say that's impossible to say until after the fact - Durant could not be considered a true franchise changer till year 3 based upon the fact that the Thunder sucked for a while before he got help. Looking at your definition, I'd agree that the small list mentioned above are the elite guys that you can truly win a title right now with.

RSS: Syndicate content