[Willfb3Participant]

I would take Fox over Ball at this point. Not only because Fox has played much better of late, but for his passion compared to the lack of it shown by Lonzo. These two interviews (links below) are all I would need to see to pick between the two if I were a GM.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryVKjAyLhus

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EVImCjaoWU

 

 

 

 

[binetParticipant]

 I would agree I prefer Fox show of emotions, yes. Yet, it should not affect too much teams pick order regarding the two if teams, like the consensus, think the play value of Ball is significantly better.

I personally don’t like Ball’s profile at all and think he has bust written all over him, but it’s clear at this point at least 50% of the basketball world is in love with his game and that should translate with him taken very highly in the draft, probably before Fox, despite him being dominated twice by DeAaron without even caring.

Fox is a really intriguing prospect in that he is really good and has been able to dominate some key matchups like this one or last year’s hoop summit’s older euro guys, and seems to have decisive skills that translate very well to the NBA in terms of pure speed and defensive motor, yet, because shooting is so important in today’s league, and quick same archetype PGs Elfrid Payton and Emmanuel Mudiay are labelled busts, he might just slip and be available in the 8-12 range despite being probably way more talented than these two. I would take Fox top 5 easily because I think his FT% speaks for his potential regarding shooting more than abysmal 3P%, and it seems possible he develops as an average shooter à la Tony Parker.

 

[he_gets_bucketsParticipant]

 I’ve been suspicious of Ball as a prospect since he first started blowing up, but didn’t really have a whole lot of hard evidence as he has admittedly played quite well for most of the season. But these matchups with Fox have brought back up that inkling in the back of my head, and I think more people are startingg to voice their concerns. He hasn’t defended well against athletic guys, and against other top flight prospects hasn’t really taken the challenge on defensively. I don’t see him being anything more than a average defender at the next level. However, the way the league has gone the past decade or so, defense, especially at the guard positions, isn’t a trait you need to get minutes nowadays. Steph Curry, Derrick Rose, Damian Lillard are all turnstiles on D and are(were in Rose’s case) counted amongst the best players at their position.

The thing that frightens me more about Ball, and would stop me from taking him if I had a top 5 pick, is his anaemic offense against athletic defenders like Ball. He can’t get to the rack on them, and even when he does can’t finish over the length and through contact, and his jumper mechanics mean unless he’s a foot behind the 3 line, he can’t get his shot off quick enough with a twitchy defender on him. This leaves him with that coveted inbetween game that guys like Chris Paul make look easy, except, Ball has literally no invetween game. Its either a 3 or a layup with him. Hes got no floater outside 5 feet, no 3 dribble pull up at the free throw line. This is something that fellow prospect Markelle Fultz is a wizard at. 

At this point, I’m taking Fultz and Fox over him, and taking a strong look at Dennis Smith as well. I know this isn’t going to be super popular but I just don’t see him being that much more effective than Ricky Rubio at the next level if he has a very similar skillset and Ricky is one of the greatest pasers we’ve seen in the past decade. If you can’t score and you can’t defend at a high level you just aren’t going to be an elite guy in the NBA.I havent watched enough tape of the Ntilkina to know whether I’d take him over him, but from what I’ve read he has a ridiculous wingspan(in the 6’11" range according to some!?) and competes hard on D. His shooting percentages all look good and hes a monster attacking the rim from what I have seen so based on combine showings I might even rate him higher. 

This is obviously not going to happen, more than likely he goes top 3, but i’m just getting my 2 cents out there that I don’t think its a smart pick now before it becomes popular opinion and I look like a bandwagon hindsight hater. I’m willing and hoping i’m wrong and he turns into a star because he is quite an exciting guy to watch.

[IlladelphParticipant]

 he_gets_ buckets I could not agree more.  Ball is not going to be able to drive and get his shot off in the post around NBA defenders.  He couldn’t do it all season long and he was shut down by Kentucky’s post players.  He shoots 3 ball well, and can get the post bucket on a fast break, but he has absolutely ZERO mid-range game.  In the entire regular season he was 2/11 from midrange between the key and the arc.  2 made buckets!  The other concern I have is Ball’s reliance on flashy assists like the full-court pass, or the cross-key pass.  Against a decent Kentucky defense he turned the ball over a ton.  Ball is a highly-entertaining player, and a great college player, but unless he develops a mid-range game, and can learn to get his shot off in the paint when he penetrates, then he is not going to an elite NBA point.  Defense is another thing but matchups and sweitching can help that sonewhat.  It’s just for the amount of hype Ball is getting, I sense NBA disappointment.

[mowestenParticipant]

 I agree with a lot of this, only Rubio is actually a very good NBA defender. He plays a hard and has great anticipation and good basketball IQ at the defensive end, and really good, quick hands.

Ball is among the worst defenders I have ever seen for a player projected to go at the top of the draft.

[sweaterflexParticipant]

Fox certainly outplayed Lonzo in the their head to head matchups, but college basketball is not the pros. Ball’s floor is probably as a Ricky Rubio type who can shoot spot up 3s and finish at the rim, which is a really good player. He made 73% of his two pointers (mainly around the rim) and over 41% of his 3s. If he plays in a scheme heavy on pick and rolls and with a good secondary playmaker he may guarantee you an elite offense.

Fox will probably shoot 3s better in the pros than he has thus far just based on his FT%, but he is nowhere near the distributor the other point guards are in this draft. Fox has elite speed, and could play similarly to a young Derrick Rose operating heavily in the midrange, but he doesn’t make players around him better and he doesn’t finish at the rim nearly as well as Lonzo. Fox could likely beat Lonzo in a game of 1 on 1, but he is way more likely to end up in Elfrid Payton-style purgatory. I would take Smith (who looks like a young Steve Francis) and Nkilitina (really coming on strong lately) above Fox.

[IknoBall12Participant]

 lonzo isn’t getting this praise and these comparisons(other than his dad) for no reason. Dude just had a fantastic season. You guys keep talking about 2 head to head matchups but this isn’t a game of one on one. Lonzo is a better point guard point blank period. And it sounds more like nitpicking than anything I mean someone is already calling him a bust? What part his game at 19 years old mind you says he will be a bust………..

[IlladelphParticipant]

noballs – No one is saying that he is a bust.  I think everyone agrees that he will be a good NBA player.  What we are saying is that he is incredibly hyped up, and we don’t feel that he will be able to live up to that hype.  Time will tell, but Fox, Smith, Ntilikina, are all extremely skilled and talented, and have nowhere near the hype that Lonzo Ball has.  It just might be possible that Ball will disappoint at the next level based on the ridiculous hype train that he is riding right now.  

[IknoBall12Participant]

 and as far as emotion goes why knock the mans swag? I guess u forgot the 3 he hit when he beat Kentucky and told the crowd to hush? Or the time he dunked on a guy on that alley oop and got a tech for stating buddy down? Man I tell u lol I bet a lot of y’all hate his dad more than his actual game. I guess y’all hate kawhi Leonard show of emotion to then huh? Lol

[theballerwayParticipant]

nobody saw Fox against UNC ? Fox is got great tools and some nice skills but also has many flaws (like all these 19yr olds) his got flaws and question marks also.

Its a gamble but you gotta look at the whole picture here

  

[r377Participant]

How quickly people change their mind.

I got negged and most ppl were going Lonzo Ball when I compared him to Fox
http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/lonzo-ball-vs-deaaron-fox

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