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Everyone stop with the Roy/Harden comparisons

apeizner
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Everyone stop with the Roy/Harden comparisons

It drives me crazy everytime I see an article written about how James Harden is the next Brandon Roy. He does let the game come to him (which will be great next year, because that means he isn't a ballhog, and to be a rookie ballhog doesn't give you any points), but just because Harden doesn't have blow by speed and is crafty doesn't mean he'll be like Roy. One thing that stood out was the NCAA tournament games; thats why its so tough to compare the two....because Roy would know when to take over, while Harden doesn't. Taking over the games when they need to isn't just about ability (because clearly he has it), but it's about personality. There is that drive and will that the player must possess, and it's not something they learn, its something they either have or don't. Harden doesn't have that and Roy does, so the comparisons need to stop.


rtbt
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apeizner - Excellent Post

apeizner, I thought that was an excellent analysis on your part.

glm51391
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roy better player harden very smart

Harden is a very crafty player and brandon roy is an explosive player. Brandon roy looks to take over games like when he scored 52 against phoenix and harden likes to play relaxed roy clearly has a killer instinct while harden is more relaxed. Harden has a nice touch from the outside as displayed in ASU but Roy has a knock down mid range jumper that cant be touched.

sheltwon3
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College and NBA are

College and NBA are different and I am sure that if the only thing different between roy and Harden is a killer instinct than who knows it Harden gets it. The NBA is more a players game than a team game so you could see him put up numbers as well.

sayanything
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I understand your post, i

I understand your post, i even gave it a thumbs up. But you're forgetting James Harden was only a sophomore. When Brandon Roy was a sophomore, he lost in the first round of the tourney. I guess he didn't take over that game. For the season, he averaged 12.9 ppg as a sophomore. Harden was over 20. Their skillset's are both very similar at the same age, Roy could have put up close to Hardens numbers if he was the focal point of an offense. But he wasn't and he didn't. So at the same stage, you could say at least Harden knows what it's like to be "the man" of an offense. Brandon Roy hadn't developed that yet. It wasn't until Brandon Roy and Nate Robinson were seniors that they made noise in the Tourney and Brandon turned into a killer. Maybe if Harden stuck around for 2 more years, he could have developed that killer instinct you guys are talking about. All I'm saying is, I don't remember hearing much about Brandon Roys killer instinct when he was a sophomore averaging 12.9 points per game.

s2jepeka
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Hindsight is 20/20

Of course you dont think Harden will be like Roy.

But guess what. No one thought Roy would be like Roy!

Even up to his 50 point game last year, after an all star selection, people still didnt think he would ever really be a big scorer. So cut it out talking like you knew he would be this good.

Out of college he was the 'safe pick' who most thought wouldnt ever be s superstar but would be consistent as a sidekick. If you dont remeber that analysis you really shouldnt post.

I say that to say this...Harden this year is looked at as: the safe pick who may not be a superstar, but....

So you never know. He's not as quick as Roy, but he's stronger. And his game is like Paul Pierce, not Roy, anyway.

Rico
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Harden

If you look at Harden's Sophomore numbers, they are identical to what Roy did as a Senior. I think Harden may turn out to be way better than Roy. Maybe Harden lacks that killer instinct right now, but he is also still very young. His game is much more developed than Roy's was at the same age.

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Nice Rico. I hate it how

Nice Rico. I hate it how people are comparing Harden to Roy as a pro. You have to compare them at similar points in their careers. Most people didnt even pay attention to Roy coming out because he was a senior from a smaller school. The only way we will find out is through time.

dose2100
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i guess UW, who was a number

i guess UW, who was a number one seed and pac 10 champs roy's senior year, is a small school... that makes sense...

knicksfreak
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Oh please. Its not like

Oh please. Its not like they're a perennial powerhouse. Do you consider them bigtime?

knicksfreak
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Not even top 30 in prestige.

Not even top 30 in prestige.

los507
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Harden

I think the comparison should be that they are similar styles of guards more so than anything.They both have a nice handle for a 2 guard.They both have nice shots and are very good overall guards.They both remind me of old school players so I think thats why people try to lump them together.Harden's got a ways to go to be in Roy's league but so far through 2 years of college he faired well and when you're in the draft you're going to be compared to somebody he has lived up to the Mcdonald's All-American hype so I'm interested to see if he can live up to the comparison to Roy.I think he will be a good pro and probably eventually be in the top 5 or 6 two guards in the league.It's going to be fun watching and seeing how his game translates to the NBA.

fliptonn
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harden didnt play well in

harden didnt play well in the tourny cause teams played a zone and the ASU coach was too stupid to let harden bring the ball up the court. they went to pendergraph and corner three's all game. i was yelling at the screen lol

DeLaQuest
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I like Harden's own comparison

In a recent inteview James described himself as a mix between Ginoblli and Paul Pierce. I would add the term "Poor Man's version".

His flat-footed, lefthanded perimeter shot is very similar to Ginoblli. His strength and technique driving into the lane are similar to Pierce.

I was astonished by Harden's leaping vertical reach and sprint speed at the combine.

And now that we know James has the length and strength of a SF, he's a safe bet to be a stable, longterm starter in the NBA. No doubt. I'm guessing he'll always be a second option at best, topping out around 18 ppg for multiple seasons and doing many other things to help his team win.

One other thing:Because of Arizona State's style, James could have a harsh adjustment during his rookie year. The 24-second shot clock will be a shock to his system after playing such a patient brand of offense for the Sun Devils. Also, he often floated around in a zone defense there, so it remains to be seen what kind of man-to-man defender he will be. But it sounds like he has defensive tools based on his combine measurements.

dose2100
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well, anytime a team is a

well, anytime a team is a number one seed, most people know about the team and their number one player... plus, uw is/has been an athletic powerhouse in multiple sports... just because they aren't a perennial powerhouse dosen't make them an unnoticed small school... oh ya, roy also just happened to be the pac ten player of the year and an all american... idk how you can say people did not pay attention to him... he was widely considered a top 6 pick in the draft... and how is arizona state anywhere close to as "Bigtime" as UW?

also, the comparison between roy and harden in their college development is silly... roy came into college very skinny and developed into a much bigger and better athlete during college, and is still developing athletically... harden came into college a large and strong guard, and still looks the same... also, roy was more athletic than harden coming out of college... just look at their combine numbers... he had a 40" vert...

dose2100
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well, anytime a team is a

well, anytime a team is a number one seed, most people know about the team and their number one player... plus, uw is/has been an athletic powerhouse in multiple sports... just because they aren't a perennial powerhouse dosen't make them an unnoticed small school... oh ya, roy also just happened to be the pac ten player of the year and an all american... idk how you can say people did not pay attention to him... he was widely considered a top 6 pick in the draft... and how is arizona state anywhere close to as "Bigtime" as UW?

also, the comparison between roy and harden in their college development is silly... roy came into college very skinny and developed into a much bigger and better athlete during college, and is still developing athletically... harden came into college a large and strong guard, and still looks the same... also, roy was more athletic than harden coming out of college... just look at their combine numbers... he had a 40" vert...

dose2100
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well, anytime a team is a

well, anytime a team is a number one seed, most people know about the team and their number one player... plus, uw is/has been an athletic powerhouse in multiple sports... just because they aren't a perennial powerhouse dosen't make them an unnoticed small school... oh ya, roy also just happened to be the pac ten player of the year and an all american... idk how you can say people did not pay attention to him... he was widely considered a top 6 pick in the draft... and how is arizona state anywhere close to as "Bigtime" as UW?

also, the comparison between roy and harden in their college development is silly... roy came into college very skinny and developed into a much bigger and better athlete during college, and is still developing athletically... harden came into college a large and strong guard, and still looks the same... also, roy was more athletic than harden coming out of college... just look at their combine numbers... he had a 40" vert...

dose2100
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sorry about the triple post...

my computer started freaking out... and then i did...

knicksfreak
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Arizona State isnt bigtime.

Arizona State isnt bigtime. Your missing the point. I meant that nobody knew what Roy was going to do when he came out. I think its safe to say that he's exceeded expectations. Therefore I dont believe we can get a true gauge of what Harden is going to be.

butidonthavemoney
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Roy

Roy was projected as a second round pick for most of the year. If I remember correctly, he boosted his stock by dominating workouts.

dose2100
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agreed...

roy was a safe and solid pick... and he turned out to be a star... but if people had really payed attention, they could see that he was still developing physically, and had really gotten better throughout college... plus, he did have a killer instinct in college, but when he was younger, he wasn't the star player and couldn't just demand the ball away from robinson and the other players... i think harden is going to be a solid player and really help his team, but he doesn't look like he's going to develop into a star to me...

knicksfreak
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My point exactly. He wasnt

My point exactly. He wasnt expected to be a star coming from relatively nowhere but now people act like he showed everything he does now, when he came out.

mikeyvthedon
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James Harden

Well, apeizner, I just got to your article, and let me just say that NBAdraft.net could make a new folder exclusively for dwight12. You bring up valid points in the article, but I think the Roy comparisons were more along the lines of similar build and playing style as opposed to what you might expect from Harden. I feel that player comparisons are usually kind of broad generalizations and that it is usually hard to say that one player is going to have a career like another. I mean, it really never happens that way, players are different and I do not think people can look at Harden and say "He is going to do exactly what Roy did." I certainly do not have that expectation of him, but if you were going to I guess compare him to one player in the league right now, Brandon Roy comes to mind. The comparisons only gain more steam if you look at their college numbers, which are eerily similar in James sophomore year compared with Brandon's senior year. But, with that being said, I agree completely that the comparison is lacking in certain areas.

Brandon Roy is bigger, stronger and more athletic than James. You can say that James averaged around the same numbers as Brandon in two years fewer, but Brandon's improvement over those two years and the years following is not something I see very many players duplicating. Brandon Roy has a killer instinct that it appears Harden and many others may lack, and this is also helped by Brandon's deceiving quickness and speed. Harden can only hope to be in the same category as Brandon when it comes to this, and it will probably hurt him on the defensive end in the NBA. I see Harden as a solid scorer, but in a league where even Brandon Roy is not a great defender (He has a lot of work to do on that end of the court), he will be a defensive liability. As far as the NCAA tourney goes, that could be another way of saying Harden is not similar to Roy in his inability to step up in the big game, but I really do not take that same stance. I think Brandon Roy played on better teams than James Harden, and was kind of impressed with how James carried the ASU program for two years. He really did not play well in the tournament this past year, but I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that people could focus on stopping him with a lack of other offensive weapons, where as Brandon had more help when he was with UW. Even so, I went to University of Oregon, so I saw Brandon and have seen James Harden play quite a bit. As impressive as James was the last two years, Brandon Roy in his senior year could pretty much score at will. He could get to anywhere he wanted to on the court and his offensive skill set was out of this world. I would have compared him to a Paul Pierce type player, and the comparison is not far off. But, would I compare James Harden to Brandon Roy? I would say for even as similar as they may have been on the college level, I would say that James Harden has a long way to go to cop a Roy comparison, and I would think that a more apt comparison might be a Ben Gordon, a guy who can put in buckets but is better off not be a team catalyst and has problems on defense. By comparing him to Ben Gordon, I am not saying he has the same body, nor the same ability, but, he may provide a similar role to a team and deal with some of the same issues a player like Gordon might.

apeizner
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Thanks for all the responses

I appreciate everyone's responses, whether you agree or disagree with my notion. After reading your comments, I took them into account, and here are my finals thoughts:

As far as talent, measurements, and similar playing styles, they are comparable. But I guess that wasn't what I was trying to point out. What I was trying to point out was that Brandon Roy has a killer instinct, which Harden doesn't have. If your the best player on a team, you show up. Now whether that person has a good game or bad is to be determined, but if you only take 7 shots per game in the tournament where the team is relying on you to produce (especially if there second best player, pendergraph, is in foul trouble in a deciding game) and where your assists aren't making up for the lack of productive, thats lacking an instinct to just flat out take over. Roy had that as a senior, and even as a junior in there final game againist Louisville when they lost.

All I'm saying is that James Harden has yet to prove a type of leadership and a killer instinct that Roy developed in college. Whether or not Harden develops that or not remains to be seen. But right now, I would compare Harden to a shorter version of John Salmons more than B-roy

mikeyvthedon
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Apeizner

I completely agree, and I was trying to point that out as well in my response. I think the Salmons comparison is quite apt, and fits along that same Ben Gordon line I was trying to use. Harden will be a good scorer, but not a team leader, which is what Brandon Roy has proven to be.

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