Evan Turner or James Harden
Evan Turner and James Harden have very similar games. Both of them coming into the draft were viewed as complete do it all guards. Both players have PG handles and vision but also enough size to play small forward. Both guards are physical and like to get to the rim where instead of ultra athleticism to finish they use their BB IQ and craftiness. But they do have their differences.
Turner is not the shooter that Harden is but uses the mid range area more effectively and doesn't settle for long jumpers or 3 pointers. Tho Harden got a near 7 foot wingspan Turner is almost 2 inches taller and players like it. Turner is the better rebounder and defender.
Tho both guards put up gaudy numbers in college, Turner one more games as the go to guy. Turner took over and dominated games at the college level while Harden just usually went out and got his tho Harden is a great glue guy and complimentary player.
My question is who do you think will have the better career? Both of these guys were top 3 picks based off the premise they were complete ready to compete NBA 2guards. Neither one of them look complete so far in the NBA but it often takes swingmen longer to adjust to the NBA then it does combo guards.
But who would you take if you were starting a team and needed a 2 guard and your only option was either James Harden or Evan Turner and why? And had Harden stayed for his JR. year what do you think his numbers would of looked like and who do you think would of been the first 2 guard taken in that scenario Turner or Harden?
Personally I take Turner because he has proven to be a winner and does what it takes.
Harden will have the better career simply because he is playing alongside two studs in Westbrook and Durant. In the near future, he's going to hit a lot of open 3's and in playoff time, he's going to be the guy Westbrook and Durant dish it to for BIG shots.
I can't imagine what he's going to be like in the starting line-up consistently along westbrook and durant.
Harden all day!!!! What seperates them is Harden is a much better shooter an has that killer instinct, an i think OKC just needs a big that can defend an occasionally score in the post an they will be Elite!!!!!
I think Harden will be better in the long run, he needs to improve his D though so he can start more consistantly over Sefolosha. However I think Thunder are content with him being the 6th man, so I'm not sure he will ever be a consistant starter anytime soon, which is a shame.
How can you say Harden has that Killer instinct when so far in his 100 plus NBA games he has not proven to be a clutch scorer, or shooter for that fact, and in college his team didn't win anything while he was at Arizona State. Turner meanwhile won Player of the Year in college and hit a ton of huge shots. Even in the tourny loss last year Turner almost had a triple double. Turner has proven he is capable of doing way more when asked too thus far then Harden.
Harden in his second year is averaging 25 minutes. 9.5 points. 3.2 rebounds and 1.8 assists. But is shooting 38% from the field. 38% weren't you guys just saying he is going to, and is getting open shots playing alongside Westbrook and Durant. I can't ever see Harden reaching his full potential on that team.
Turner is having the same problems tho. In the 5 games Iggy didn't play Turner started and averaged 13 points, 8 rebounds, and 3 assists. Before December started Turner was averaging around 28 minutes and getting over 8 points, 6 rebounds, and 3 assists per game. But his numbers have gone down recently due to Doug Collins crazy and unpredictable rotations. Doug Collins in case you forgot started Kapono at small forward on opening day against the Heat nonetheless instead of Turner or Thad Young, and right now Kapono is on the inactive roster cuz he stinks. Collins is just too worried about keeping his job instead of letting the younger players play thru their mistakes. i wonder how Collins would handle Wall and his 6 turnovers per game her would be freaking out and starting hinrich and some other wily vet instead.
Did i miss something on my numbers or did I miss the part where James Harden actually made his college team better then Turner made his college team? Or did I miss something Harden did in the pro's so far that made me think he is going to be an All Star or I forgot that Turner dropped 16, 7, and 4 in his pro debut making his last 7 shots coming off a terrible preseason to prove how resilient he is.
Oh and Tongue Out the same reason you think Harden will have a better career is the same reason I think he will have a less significant career. Harden will always be in the shadow of Westbrook, Durant, and even Green as long as he plays for the Thunder, meanwhile once Iggy is traded which is almost inevitable. Going into next season with Jrue, Evan, and Thad, Turner has the chance to become the focal point of the offense. He has already proven to be crafty playmaker and great rebounding guard. Plus Turner has a higher basketball I.Q. Why do I say that? Because Turner plays within himself and don't ever force anything. Turner averages more assists then Harden despite never really being on the court with a good shooter unless Meeks is playing. Harden meanwhile even tho he is a great passer, can't find ways to get his teammates involved unless it's in a fast break setting.
ive said it over and over on here imo turner isnt ever going be any good hardens the perfect 6th man for okc bringin his scoring punch off the bench to anchor the bench for the thunder im not sure harden will stay with okc though he mite take the money n run if its offered to him to go sumwhere else to play more which imo i think is a mistake id stay in okc to play alongside durant and rw
Turner has already displayed his versatility and basketball IQ thus far this season. Yesterday afternoon in limited action he went 3-4 hit his only 3 and had 4 rebounds and 3 assists. All his assists were nice including one pick pocket and another play where he beat Paul down the floor got the outlet pass and without even taking another step turned his body and thru a nice touch pass to a trailing Thad Young for a dunk. With his head, and work ethic there is no doubt he is going to get better.
So when you say he isn't going to be any good what exactly do you mean. Like he won't be All Star good? He won't be a solid starter, which he has already done well, or he won't even be a good rotation player?
What do you think his peak stats are? And remember if you look at most of the great shooting guards in this league they did'nt start out hot. Look at Manu he came to the NBA with Pro experience and only aveaged 7 points his first year and 12 the next. Granger only averaged 8 points coming out as a JR and is one of the top scorers. Williams only averaged 10 points. But all those players showed the traits it took to be great, and the most important thing which is the work ethic to work on their flaws.
Both are Role players. Turner has potential to be more if he works on his shot. Turner must show more confidence out there,and ignore the rotations and do what he was brought in to do whenever he is on the court. I do not think Turner has the quickness to take NBA guys off the dribble as regulary as he did to college kids.
I'd pick Harden, for sure, I think he'd be averaging 15 5 and 5 in Philly. I often question how Scott Brooks uses him, but the Thunder keep winning at a high clip.
I still think Turner will be a good player, but it's natural for questions to arise when "the most NBA ready player" of the 2010 draft struggles out of the gate.
I think Harden, is and will be the better player and is better than Turner in every aspect except rebounding at this point in their careers.
Was high on both players coming in and have quickly soured on both. But i do think turner still has the potential to be a potential all star caliber player similar to granger if he's given the reigns or develops confidence/j. Already NBA size, can handle and pass some, and is a terrific rebounder. While his athleticism isn't strong enough to take people consistently off the dribble, i do think developing a deep ball and more consistent mid-range game would help his off the dribble game tremendously.
Scout4Real Turner has more then enough athleticism to succeed at the NBA level that is not in doubt after seeing him play. For example in the first game against Washington he begged Collins to guard Wall one on one and Collins didn't give in til Wall was close to a triple double. Turner guarded him very well and showed the lateral quickness that he posses. Turner actually test out very well at the combine. His combine numbers were almost identical to Brandon Roy, actually a tad better at everything but the vertical, and also similar to Corey Brewer believe it or not. Turner's pace of play is very deceptive tho. Even as a rookie I can see the signs of what is going to make him great.
Against ATL he had a very good move on Jamal Crawford and got the step on him, most players, not just rookies in the NBA once they got that step would of picked up their dribble or went hard in the lane which in that case would of resulted in a charging call or blocked shot. But once Turner got the step and saw the open lane he noticed again the wing defender closing in for help defense so instead of still trying to go straight in he isolated both defenders by faking a spin back to the middle before spinning back baseline and finishing with the opposite hand after drawing the foul.
Turner's biggest problem right now is pretty simple...Andre Iguadola and Doug Collins. If you watched the Sixers at all this year you would know Iggy basically does what he wants on offense. For somebody who don't score a lot Iggy is very ball dominant and since Turner is not yet a great spot up shooter they don't mix well on the court and Iggy plays like 40 minutes a game so....if you do the math Turner never really get's a chance to get comfortable. Plus Collins has no rhyme or reason thus far for his substitutions. Starter earlier are now inactive, the inactive are now starting. Brackins got to play in one game dropped like 8 and 6 then got sent to the D league. It really makes no sense. The game after Turner put up 11 points on 5-7 shooting in just 19 minutes, Turner only saw ten minutes against the Bobcats in a 20 point blow out. Nobody could possibly get into a rhythm like that. Once Iggy is gone, and Turner get's 30 minutes a night consistently we will really see what he is capable of. Controlling the outcome of games.
Joe Wolf Turner didn't really stuggle out of the gate....He dropped 16 7 n 4 in his debut...
You got to look at it in perspective of the Sixers and not the other teams.
Every player on the Sixers is scoring at a career low except obviously for Jrue. Look at Iggy himself. Iggy is good for at worse 17 points a game and at his best season 19.9 points a game pretty much 20. But this season Iggy is only averaging 14 PPG and he's a ball hog. Thad Young was a big disapointment last year because he was lost in Eddie Jordans offense but even last year in an off year Thad averaged over 14 PPG. This year Thad is much improved shooting nearly 60% from the field but is still only averaging 12 PPG. And then you got Lou Williams who was good for about 14 last year scoring only 12 PPG and shooting a terrible 35% from the field.
Doug Collins isn't looking at it like he's the second pick so he got to play. He's looking at it like.....?.....Well nobody really knows what he's thinking, but what we do know is he has came out and said that Turner and Iggy do not mesh well on the floor that is why he took Turner out the starting lineup. These are personell issues that Special Ed or Thorn got to fix.
And if Harden were on the Sixers he don't average nowhere near close to 15 because Iggy don't even average 15 and he takes all the shots. Holiday takes a lot of shots too and only averages 13. Plus Harden is not a good rebounder so he would'nt average 5 rebounds. And how would Harden average 5 assists on the Sixers and team that got no good shooters, if he can't even average 2 assists on a team with one of the best shooters in the world?
And Harden's lack of defense would have Collins playing him about 20 minutes a night.
Tired of the he needs a rhythm excuse... many players come of the bench for 15-20 minutes a game and are fine. His a rookie and need to know that he needs to do what he is asked... people makes excuses. He needs to shoot higher percentage from the field and display higher confidence.
I've never been a huge fan of Harden and was disappointed when the Thunder took him, but he's really starting to come around.
He's finally got some confidence, and he actually looks like he knows what he's doing out there (he had previously looked lost a lot). His man on man defense is improving, and he's always been a good thief. He also doesn't look to rebound from the 2 spot because he always gets back because Westbrook and Durant are good rebounders for their position.
I'm not one of those guys who is really hard on Turner, but despite a few good games (his debut, I remember him having a double double, and a few 10+ point games) I think it is fair to say he has struggled out of the gate, it may not be 100% his fault, you can blame Collins, Igoudala, etc, but he hasn't found a nitch with that team, has had trouble adjusting to their offense and at times has done little more than rebound. I think he has struggled.
If Harden were on Philly, Jodi Meeks would not be getting near the minutes he is He's averaging 22 mpg right now and Evan Turner is averaging about 24 mpg. If Harden were on the 6ers instead of Turner I think he'd be getting about 30 mpg. 15 5 and 5 might be a bit of an overstatement on my part, I'll give you that, but he'd be a much more productive player than Turner right now.
Both players are in rather different situations, one is on a contender and mainly provides 6th man scoring in Harden's case whilst Turner is trying to establish a starting role in a team trying to rebuild. If Iggy gets traded then Turner will have to assume a much bigger role which hasn't been asked of Harden yet. People are saying that Harden only puts up 9.5 to 10ppg but he's playing limited minutes and might be 3rd or 4th option on the floor a lot of times. Whilst this may not give him major minutes, it allows him to develop slowly without having pressure as the go to guy on the team.
I prefer Harden as a 6th man because if he started, he'd be 4th choice to get a shot and as a bench option gives OKC nice offence when KD in particular goes to the bench.
I think that Harden will have a rock solid NBA career maybe be a glue guy as another poster said, he'll do whatever role is asked of him to a very high level which may not be reflected in his scoring for example given the role he plays.
Turner may have more upside but if Iggy is traded then a lot may rest on him very early in his career.
That's just my point I think Turner strives when things rest on him more then when he has to fit in...He has proven to be a winning game manager at the college level and even in the NBA won't sacrifice the teams success for his own personal stats...He is not busting at all but rather doing what he thinks is best for the team Turner is not gonna jack shots up just because he was the second pick in the draft...he don't have that mentality he is a possession by possession player and that is why I think he is a key cog to building a winning organization...