ESPN analyst Doug Gottlieb has Jrue Holiday going #3 to OKC?
Are you serious? I mean Jrue Holiday is legit and has potential, but going #3? That is a reach especially for him. Also, he has Hasheem Thabeet going #5 to Washington? He will not drop that low, i can promise you that. And Jonny Flynn going to the GSW will not happen either, that is also a reach. He doesn't even have James Harden in his top 7...
1. LAC- Blake Griffin/Oklahoma
2. MEM- Ricky Rubio/Spain
3. OKC- Jrue Holiday/UCLA
4. SAC- Brandon Jennings/Europe
5. WAS- Hasheem Thabeet/Connecticut
6. MIN- Jordan Hill/Arizona
7. GSW- Jonny Flynn/Syracuse
It doesnt look right to me either.. Hill going to Minnesota is ridiculous.
yea why would jordan hill go to minny when they got kevin love and al jefferson
Why is Flynn to Golden State that far fetched of an idea. Assuming Rubio and Jennings are off the Board I think he makes perfect sense. He allows Monta Ellis to play more naturally off the ball and slides Corey Maggette to a 6th man position.
Flynn-Ellis-Jackson-Wright-Biedrins with Maggette Belinelli and Randolph *who should start, but isn't nearly ready yet. Playing in that system doesnt help his cause much either.
Guys like Tyreke Evans and Jrue Holiday are hard for me to read. I think they will shake a lot of things up in this draft.
Sources are saying his stock is rising more quickly than any other player in this draft, but I think #3 is ridiculous with Thabeet on the board. OKC has missed the mark drafting centers while they were still in Seattle (Swift, Sene, Petro, etc.), so that would be the only reason I could see them shying away from Thabeet. However, Thabeet is a rare talent that can be an immediate defensive presence. Not to mention, they already have a solid combo guard in Russell Westbrook, so they don't need two versions of the same player.
The only way Hill goes to Minnesota is if they draft him as a trading piece for another player or draft pick. James Harden could easily be the pick here if he's available. Harden's stock has dropped some since the tournament, but I don't think he's out of the top 7 unless something terrible happens.
I must be the only one who thinks GS needs to go big with their first pick. They already have a ton of guards (albeit no true PG), but their frontcourt is REALLY weak when you look at their depth charts. I think they should go with Hill (if available) or Earl Clark.
i dont agree with gottleib. no james harden in top 7 is ridiculous. plus, okc needs a center more than a guard
Gottlieb put holiday there because a lot of teams are high on him in the top 10.
I like that Harden isn't in his top 7. I agree, he may be a solid pro, but not worth a pick that high.
What are you talking about.James Harden is a top five player in this draft he might win rookie of the year or Ricky Rubio will.
you know whats funny about stock going up..all it takes is a player to have a good workout in front of who ever is working him out or at what ever high profile academy that they are working out at ( or a regular workout)..then the agent eiher spreads the word that his client looks great or he tells some news guy or some sport website guy is there and likes the work out then writes about how great the guy looks and it goes from there,,,the thing is these guys are either working out alone or they may be working out against one or 3 other prospects but the other prospects are boarderline second rounders to undraftable guys..these workouts are really not that big of a deal because its not 5 on 5 with game situations just about any one of ya'll posters if youre in good shape can look great in a workout but it isnt the same as 5 on 5...if kwame brown would have worked out 5 on 5 then maybe it would have exposed how bad he really was or darko . for the most part if a player doesnt do too well in college hes not gonna do to well in the nba. there are exceptions but i really cant think of any right now...and all that mock draft is just dougs opinion just like we all have an opinion about who is gonna get picked where
rubio will not get rookie of the year..it will take him a year or 2 just to adjust to the nba game..yes he has potential to do something in the future but right out of the gate..aint gonna happen..he has to adress the problems he has checking quick american guards first and learn to cut down those turnovers that hes leading spain with
I am a little biased as a UCLA fan, but the guy has serious potential. I said before, that while he still needs to put it all together and show he can run a team, he has no weaknesses. Seriously, name one thing about his game that bothers you other then having not officially ran the point in college? Remember that Westbrook was not a pg in his 2 years at UCLA either, and he is making quite the transition.
Holiday can shoot, defend, dribble, finish, plays under control, and has great size and speed for a pg. All the projections that have him going in the 20's are seriously overlooking him.
in my opinion im just not that impressed with him any time ive watched him..then i checkout his stats and im still not impressed..i just dont see what some people are seeing..im mean he didnt play the point but he was second on the team in turnovers and he was only 7 turnovers away from leading the team..then his ast to turnover ratio was 1.75/1 a game and the 35% from three and 44% ffg in college and didnt rebound well either and as the shooting guard he never lead the team in scoring in any game and only got to the free throw line on average only once a game im just not understand where the potenial thing is comming from other than his highschool stats...yeah westbrook didnt play the point but he put up some pretty nice numbers and had a couple games where he took over..i havent seen nor heard of holiday doing that once. another player that comes to mind but who played a different position, when you say no weaknesses, is jason capel who was average at pretty much everything..and with holiday he showed to be average at pretty much everything...one thing i did like was how good of a defender he was...when i first commented about him a couple weeks back i had only seen three games but now ive seen 20 of his games and not one did he consitatantly show this great potential ive been hearing about..he showed alot more bad things then good..basically im just wanting to see proof of this great potential or great player cuz all i see is average player with flashes of good(not great) things
Honestly I dont see how people dont get this. If Holiday had a great year in college we would see him as another Derrick Rose. He may actually be bigger and plays defense better. Unfortunately he went to a team where he wasnt able to play point. I think UCLA may have did that so that he would stay 2 years. I can see Holiday being drafted higher than and point not named Rubio. Rubio got that hype. Holiday to me is probably above Jennings but it is a toss up who will have a better career but Holiday has more NBA ready body. Some of these other picks. Doug Golieb is not a creditable person with mocks so I would not even trip.
if any player playing in a big conference nearing the height of derrick rose and puts up similar numbers then you compare them to him..the thing is with all great/good players it doesnt matter what position you put them at they are gonna shine in some way or another..westbrook shined even though he wasnt the point guard..its easy to see why people dont get it because you judge a player by what they do or when they show potential by dominating at least one game weather its points rebounds assists blocks something..im not sure about other people on here but im a person that goes by proof before saying how good a player is gonna be and so far holiday fans have shown no proof..all ive heard is excuses on how he didnt play his right position thats why he didnt do this or that but ive seen many nba players not play there natural position yet they still shined..ive never heard of a player looking average just because he didnt play his natural position...and i cant see how some of the peopel that are so high on him cant understand how someone cant be high on him when he hasnt shown anything special..so basically everyone who is high on him is baseing everything about him on what he did in highschool...you put jason kidd in the sg position in college and he still would have did work..same with chris paul deron williams rose. so basically what im hearing is this guy cant adjust ..if he cant play pg he turns into just a average player...i just cant think of any other player in the nba who was like that playing a different position in college...not one
He didn't play as the main distributor on that Illinois team. It was mostly Dee Brown, sometimes Deron Williams, sometimes Luther Head. I agree with you on this, I don't see how such a talented player in high school wouldn't have some impressive games at UCLA. I mean, comparing him to Derrick Rose is a bit silly too (I forgot who said that) since Rose is only the second point guard, and only true point, to be drafted number 1 in 20-30 years. Right? Iverson and Magic were the others, and Magic was in what...1979?
I don't know if I would say number 3 overall pick, but I definitely see him in the top 10. And you can't compare him with Capel for 2 reasons: 1) Capel played 4 years of college while Holiday has played 1. The level of potential still has to be tapped but who's to say he would still be just an average player in 3 years.
2) Capel was a perimter player who really did nothing that stood out. I know Holiday still has to show he can takeover, but there are a few things that seperate him from a lot of pg's right now. He has size, speed, and athleticism. He was an outstanding defensive player. And when he handled the ball in transition plays he kept his head up and read the court well.
Holiday never took over games which is why I am surprised he is coming out this year, but the scouts are gonna look at the whole package of potential and see that he could be a star. I'm not sure how many other pg's in this draft you could say that about. Again, remember that Westbrook only played like 8 minutes a game as a freshmen.
i was making a point about a player being average at every thing with no real weakness..when capel first came to college and in highschool he basically also had no weakness...and i can say alot of pg could be a star ..just cuz they say it doesnt mean its gonna happen...alot of those same peopel said the same thing about kwame and darko..i go by my own eyes after watching them play unless i havent seen them play in which case i make no opnion and ive seen many players/pg with size speed and athletisim who kept there head up and read the court well but it means nothing if you dont prove it. 1.75/1 ast to turnover ratio doesnt prove to me that he sees the court well ....all i want is proof and from the 20 games i saw on top of the stats ive seen zero proof..scouts are all ways talking about this potential and that potenial and frankly its overrated if its not shown..i can have potenial all my life but never pan out..lenny cooke had potenial schea cotton had potenial mustafa shakur had potinal but if its not shown then im not gonna jump on the banwagon..
Of course a lot of the draft is based on potential as it always is. There are gonna be numerous guys like Kwame and Darko. Just like there will be numerous guys like Ed' Obanon and Tractor Traylor and Shawn Respert who are proven college stars who don't amount to much. You don't have to like Holiday, but to deny potential would be just as silly. Especially from a guy who has played one year of college ball at a major program where he was not just given free reign from day one like a lot of high profile ballers get.
Holiday has an impressive set of skills, that if he fully develops, would make him more impressive then a lot of guys in this draft (which I personally consider pretty weak). If you don't like him, that's cool. I was just sticking up for someone I believe will be climbing the ladder in the next few weeks.
The Point guard comparison in my eye
Chris Paul - Brandon Jennings
Deron Williams - Ricky Rubio
Raymond Felton - Jonny Flynn
Nate Robinson - Ty Lawson
Jarrett Jack - Eric Mayor
Salim Stoudamire - Patrick Mills
Daniel Ewing - Darren Collison
Monta Ellis - Jrue Holiday
Louis Williams - Jeff Teague
Stephen Curry is a Ben Gordon Clone, and some point guard abilities so he did not make my list
i never said i dont like him..iim saying that i have not seen this postential..he hasnt shown it in college so the only place yall must have seen it is in highschool..if he didnt play for ucla and wasnt a highschool all american and played the same way he played then we wouldnt be having this conversation..even ifhe played for ucla but wasnt hyped in highschool we wouldnt be having this disscussion because he didnt show any superstar potenial in 1 college game ..like any other thibng and anyother player i wanna see proof..not hear fans talk about all this potenial that he didnt show in college
I am a die-hard UCLA fan and watched every game this year at least twice. Jrue Holiday may turn out to be an excellent pro, but he didn't show anything this year. There were so many opportunities for him to take over a game, either on the offense or defense, and he never did. He's the biggest UCLA disappointment since JaRon Rush.
Arron Afflalo, Jordan Farmar, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Darren Collison... even Luc Richard Mbah a Moute... They all had moments in their UCLA career where they stepped up and showed heart and carried UCLA to victory. Jrue Holiday may have great skills, but I haven't seen the heart, the fire, the desire.
to huestis: How can you say you can't see his potential? Of course you can't "see" it, that's why it's called potential and not results. I never argued that he had good stats or took over games, but there is abosuletley nothing about his game that you could say is a major weakness. I've already pointed out all the things he is capable of doing. His ball-handling, athleticism, and shooting stroke are all solid. He just needs to put it together. Since I'm a UCLA fan, I'll give you an example: Jason Kapono as a freshman was the leader of the Bruins and was putting up huge numbers. But his "potential was limited. Westbrook as a freshman played about 8 mins and everaged like 2 pts if I recall correctly. But everyone knew he had great potential because of what he was "capable" of doing.
to janthe man: I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying. Holidays freshmen year was largely a dissapointment. But that does not mean he can't succeed in the league. I agree he did'nt show enough heart though.As a fan, I would always take Bruins like Matt Barnes, Earl Watson, and Jordan Farmar who showed heart and passion over some of the more talented Bruins like Jaron Rush, Jerome Moiso, and Jelani McCoy any day.
Jrue Holiday has potential, c'mon. He's the second youngest player in the draft. He's the same age as John Wall, who just finished high school (btw - what is it with these players, why do they usually finish HS when they are 19?).
Admittedly, his year at UCLA was average. But he wasn't bad. Young team-oriented players sometimes need time to assert themselves.
I admit that there's nothing to warrant a high pick based on his UCLA showing. I guess people are excited based on HS and his physical tools. Which makes him a high risk high reward type. But GMs don't want to draft solid players, they can pick up solid players for nothing in free agency. They want to roll the dice on someone who has some chance at stardom, even if the chance is slim.
since okc wants westbrook at the point, i dont see why theyd take holiday, especially since hes a big reach at #3
This why I have a problem with the draft. You cant draft a player in the top 10 that had the type of season Holiday had. He isnt special at anything. He is a good defender but he isnt good at anything else. You guys that say he can handle the ball and pass and show point guard skills havent seen him play. He played off the ball at UCLA and didnt show any pg skills. He is just an overrated prep player to me. He has never impressed me like he has with other people. I dont understand his hype
because when someone has potential you always see it in at least one game where they step up and take over..i didnt see it once...youre asking me to see this potential but in order to see it it has to be shown at least once..you can say all day how young this person is or he has no weakness but at the same time where are the stregnths from what hes shown me he can do alot of things on a average level but excels in no area..and westbrook was smart to go back to college and develop his game just like dru should do..maybe down the road he will show this potential. ( i could easily say the same thing some of yall are saying about some other college players who played average and didnt really show any big weaknesses) but before then hes gonna get a rude awakening and end up on the bench for the first couple of years like jermaine oneal did..my whole arguement is he didnt show anything to suggest that hes gonna be a great player while he was playing in college so why am i suppossed to believe hes gonna be a great player in the nba??...with other players i at least saw the potenial when they took over a game or a part of the game...and he does have weaknesses by the way those shooting percentages esspecially from three are nothing to brag about by far and he had a bad ast to turnover ratio...all this potential ya'll keep saying is only because he played well as a highschool player against highschool kids...if ya'll had never heard of him in highschool or heard others talk about how good he was in highschool ya'll wouldnt be hyping him up after seeing his one year in college
...are just plain dumb.
1) Doug Gottlieb is the least knowledgeable/credible source that ESPN uses as a "so-called" analyst. Digger Phelps' choice of neck tie/highlighter combo each night is a more profound basketball commentary than anything Gottlieb could ever comment on. The fact that he has Jrue Holiday at #3 is not a knock on Jrue, which I will get to in a minute. The fact that OKC already has a certifiable combo guard in Russell Westbrook is the reason this pick makes no sense, which is in line with Gottlieb's own thought track record.
2) I am an east coast guy, so much of what goes on on the left coast escapes me, except for what I see on Sportscenter highlights and read about online. So, when Russell Westbrook started climbing up draft boards last year at this time, I was baffled. The kid had proven very little all season and really only began to turn it on in the tournament. Skip to present day and another UCLA, freshman point-guard is climbing up draft boards and I, once again, am baffled. However, I reserve the right to withhold judgment until after his first year in the league because I was just as dismissive towards Westbrook when OKC drafted him. Maybe Holiday was just in the wrong place to expand his skills and he will display all his talents in the NBA because he does have a great deal of potential.
3) Once again, I will preface this statement of belief with the fact that I am an east coast guy, so the west coast is not my main source of college basketball. Having said that, James Harden is the most overrated player in this year’s draft, just ahead of Stephen Curry (I’ll save Dell's son for another debate). Harden will most likely be drafted in the lottery and based on his scoring averages this past year, he appears to deserve some hype behind him. But, not to mention scoring many of his highest totals against competition like UTEP, Pepperdine and Oregon, his competition was far from stellar in the defensive category. He left after his sophomore year because his stock was as high as it could go, bottom line. He is similar in this ilk to Jodie Meeks of Kentucky, a player who reached his collegiate peak against weak competition and realized for the sake of his stock, he should strike while the iron is hot and enter the draft. Now, unlike Harden, Meeks has retained the option to return to college, so Harden is in it for the long haul. He will get drafted high because the scouts love his scoring and his "athleticism." I use athleticism in "air quotes" because I rarely saw any of it this past season. My belief is that when he faces true defensive competition in the NBA, he will get only one more paltry NBA contract before he is relegated to a bench warming/European-trotting career.
i cant disagree with you more about harden he faced pretty good competition this year and last year he faced better compitition and till produced..im also from the east and he actually faced better players at his position then gerld henderson. at first i didnt think harden was that good either untill watching him then i understood what the fuss was about..i saw how he is a very good passer reads the floor very well and knows how to get to the spots he wants in order to score. as far as scoring against good teams .. he had 21 against arizona 24 against ucla9 i watched that game..holiday when he checked him had no answer for him) 30 against byu( not a great team but plays pretty good defense) and 26 aginst cali....the pac 10 was a pretty good conference this year and he showed that he was the best player in it..he just doesnt jump out at you like some players do
Here we are 2 & a half years later. Props to llperez for defending his opinion and it seems he was correct. In retrospect, Holiday would have been a better pick in the top 10 than most of the other guys. Kind of fun going back and reading stuff like this.
No doubt. I thought he would be a solid backup and nothing more.